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Lease Questions - Ask Here

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Comments

  • mister22mister22 Member Posts: 32
    I was wondering if a good credit score ie 7xx is the sole consideration in the approval of a lease. Even with a great number, how much does amount of debt or lines of credit play into being approved. Will they ask for a stub from my last paycheck or just go on a good credit score? Clearly, one wouldn't enter into a leasing contract without knowing how much they could afford per month. Thanks.

    mister22
  • ckigginsckiggins Member Posts: 68
    dwynne: when negotiating at the dealer and you know that the MF is "X" (via CarMan) and they tell you that it's "Y", what source would you quote to tell them that they are wrong and to call them on the fact that they are trying to pad it for profit?

    Just saying "I saw on the internet..." probably isn't the best proof. Is there somewhere 'official' you could quote from? Are these published somewhere for the public to see?
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Nope, this is not published for public consumption. I would just tell them you know the buy rate and tell them you will not sign for anything more. Most will not lie (believe it or not), they may admit that they are not giving you the buy rate - but still not give it to you. There is a chance that a number posted here could be wrong for your region - or heck they could have been mis-typed when they were entered here. So don't be TOO quick to anger if they give you a different rate, but do tell them you want the buy rate and see what they say.

    The thread topic here is about a Toyota, and those are regionally distributed and the regions seem to set their own prices, option packs, and finance and lease deals. Where I live is covered by the SE region and that can limit what options we can get and a lot of the deals available elsewhere are not available here. So if a Toyota MF is posted here, it could well be that it is wrong for me.

    Dennis
  • dit2b3dit2b3 Member Posts: 1
    Is the residual determined by the MSRP or the negotiated price? I recently went to lease a 2005 honda odyssey. We agreed on a price of 26350 and the sales person told me the residual was 62%. I was calculating the residual to be 16337 but at time of signing the paperwork they said the residual is 62% of MSRP and made the residual 17800. Which is right?
  • tomg2tomg2 Member Posts: 1
    When people discuss the "sell price" for a car, do they typically include any of the upfront fees or are those separate? Or more importantly, Car Man, do you? :confuse:

    For example, I'm shopping for a Honda Odyssey EX-L (no DVD) and have negotiated the following:

    Sell price: $29,000
    Money Factor: .0024 (.0023 + .0001 to avoid security dep)
    Residual % = 52%
    AHFC Acquisition Fee: $595
    Destination: $515
    Doc prep: $250
    Downpayment: $0
    Monthly payment: $432

    Is this a good deal, or should I continue looking? $29K/52%/.0023 seem fair, and I am willing to pay a higher monthly to minimize my down. But if the numbers people typically quote on these forums include the other fees, then it's not such a great deal. I need some help to be sure I'm comparing apples to apples.

    Appreciate any help. Thx! :)
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I think most lease banks use an "auto enhanced" score which may not be the same a just a normal score. Auto enhanced means they give more weight to auto purchases or leases. Someone with no auto credit history at all, but a good score is going to have a harder time getting a lease than someone with lots of good auto credit history but a lower score.

    I have not been asked for proof of income in years and years, but I suppose it is possible. If your credit history is full of $10k and $15k cars and you want a lease on an $80k BMW they will probably want to see a pay stub. If you leased or are leasing a $70k car now with no lates, then they will probably not be concerned about leasing you an $80k car.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    It is always calculated as percentage of full MSRP including destination charge (but nothing else, like dealer fees or taxes).

    So a car with a $30k MSRP and a 50% residual will be $15k residual. Your job is to negotiate the price down - since the lease payment is based on net cap cost - residual over time (by applying the money factor). Every bit you talk them down on the selling price means a lower payment for you. The money factor at the buy rate and residual being the same in all cases. The lease bank does not care how you get the price down - bargaining, trade in, cash, or combination of those.

    That is why it is so frustrating when people post a question like "The dealer said I can lease this car for $499 a month, is that a good deal?". The first thing you have to do is deal on the car, then lease at the buy rate. If you deal the price down low and get the buy rate, then you have gone a long way toward making sure you have a good deal. Folks also forget to check 3rd party lease rates, like leasecompare.com . The captive lease banks can have smoking hot deals, but often their non-promo rates (like on strong sellers, like the Odyssey) can be higher than you can get elsewhere.

    Dennis

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    The "Sell price" is actually $29,515 since the destination is always included. The invoice on this truck is $29,588 - so you are getting it under invoice. I have seen folks doing a little better, maybe a few hundred.

    The doc prep fee is just extra profit for the dealer, which just makes your deal a little worse. Of course "they all" charge a doc fee now.

    So you could shop around for a better quote or truck including destination and doc fees.

    The acquisition fee is right, except for some states like MY where it is higher.

    The residual is fixed by AHFC so the dealer can't change that.

    You don't state the lease terms - but I am guessing 48 months and 48k - since the MF would then match up. You do know the "Sweet spot" in the Pilot lease is the 3/36k, right? The MF is only 0.00154 and the residual is 60%. So a LOT less truck to pay for and a MF nearly 2 points lower. Also, Honda only has a 3/36k warranty unless you purchase HondaCare extended and most folks think it is a bad move to lease past the end of the warranty. I guess Honda Financial does too, thus the higher MF and big residual drop.

    Dennis
  • miamimike1miamimike1 Member Posts: 13
    Many thanks to car man and dwynne for all the info here!

    So about this hot honda accord LE lease offer from honda ( MF=.00048 residual =54% for a 36/36)...expires may 2.
    I can hold off a few months at least, but that old Saturn has 207K on it now! so I have the luxury of waiting to replace my old 2nd car..

    So, in general, do leases on a model year get cheaper as the year draws to a close, or is summer a better time to lease, or are there ANY seasonal considerations? Any predictions? Does anyone here think the offer above will remain, get better, be replaced by a different brand but comparable value?

    Thanks in Advance!!

    Mike
  • rolson1rolson1 Member Posts: 25
    By Law the residual MUST be calculated on the vehicles MSRP. So the answer is 17,800 :shades:
  • rolson1rolson1 Member Posts: 25
    1. Cars rise in price during the year
    2. Rebates & Incentives are meant to rid the dealers of inventory so they have room to purchase more cars from the only seller that always sells at retail (the manufacturer)
    3. A lease comparison based on rate and residual, between two unlike manufacturers is futile and no one has a crystal ball or magic pixie dust to figure out WHEN the best time to lease might be...however the lowest price on a car is at build 1 and the highest residuals are in the 1st quarter of that cycle.
    4. If you are equating a lease's merits on residual or cap cost or profit motive to the dealer you are missing the point of leasing which is to possess a depreciating asset (still don't understand how something that's an asset can depreciate, but that's a whole other kettle of fish) for the least amount of out-of-pocket cost and the least exposed to the vagrancy of the marketplace.
    5. If you are leasing a car so that you can purchase it at the end of the lease you will have paid too much for the opportunity to do so. Just do the math.
    6. Last, but not least: Would you really care how much money the bank/leasing company OR the dealer made on your transaction if you were not at risk at the end of the lease AND your payment was, say, $65? Of course not! SOOOO...figure out what it cost for brakes, maintaining the car, tires, repairs, initial cost of the car and your peace of mind to drive that Saturn for 207,000 miles...devide it by the months driven...add for cost of living index since your procurement of the Saturn... and that is what it REALLY cost you every month. Use that as your guide to leasing.
  • rolson1rolson1 Member Posts: 25
    You should be called by Ford (I am assuming you have a Red Carpet Lease) about 60 days from the end of your lease. At that time...or in fact ANY time before your turn in date, you can go to the Ford dealer and get all those questions resolved. Ford requires that he give you a 'lease end evaluation' at that time...so you have 60 days to repair, touch up or resolve any issues you might have with the evaluation of that dealer. You don't have to take his word, Ford has a worksheet for YOU and the dealer. Good luck
  • beenhadhondabeenhadhonda Member Posts: 10
    Hi,
    This question is for Car_man.
    What is the base rate for a 48 month lease on a '05 Honda CR-V EX AWD 2.4 4cyl 5sp auto, no options, in Lynnwood (Seattle area) Washington.
    Thanks much,
    beenhadhonda
  • beenhadhondabeenhadhonda Member Posts: 10
    I leased a 05 Honda CR-V EX with a cap cost of 22579 and a Res value of 11791, so my financing is based on Cap cost + Res value = 34371. At the end of my lease, if I decide to buy it, am I going to have to finance the 11791 again?
    Thanks,
    beenhadhonda
  • sacurtissacurtis Member Posts: 3
    If the residual is 60% of MSRP that would equal $18381, why do the lease terms indicate buyback is $19,300? I'm wondering because more than likely I will probably buy it back or sell it at end of lease because I will be over miles but who knows it's three years from now. What exactly does Actual net capitalized cost $26,788.66 mean?

    Closed-end lease for 2005 Pilot EX (Model YF1845EW). MSRP $30,635.00 (includes destination). Actual net capitalized cost $26,788.66. Dealer participation may affect actual payment. Taxes, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $10,044.00. Option to purchase at lease end $19,300.05. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15¢/mile over 12,000 miles/year. SEE DEALER FOR DETAILS.
  • zeenlaizeenlai Member Posts: 1
    Car_man,
    That was the latest message I can find on the MF of a XC90. Any idea what it is currently? I have a feeling I'm given an extremely high quote. I was given 0.00268 and the lowest factor of 0.00257 but nothing like the values quoted by you. Is this the new norm for a FWD xc90? Oh, the rates were from USBank and when I asked for Volvo finance rates, the reply was that if I used Volvo finance, I'll not get the rebates. Thanks!

    Regards,
    Zeenlai
  • jetdrivenjetdriven Member Posts: 18
    perhaps you could sell it to me? Seriously. I dont think BMW allows transferring the lease in the first or last 6 months of the term. But we are looking for a BMW 3 series. Byron jetcity@airpost.net
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Typically the car prices fall throughout the model year - or at least your net cost does, as the dealers get more willing to deal and the manufacturers get more desperate to get rid of the cars before the next model year. With a lease, the residual drops throughout the model year . Since your payment is based on the difference between your negotiated low price and residual, this means you can't predict when is the best time to lease any particular car. If you got the car for invoice in September when the residual was high, it might be a cheaper lease than getting it for $1,000 under invoice now with a lower residual. You have to also consider the lease money factor - they adjust them to move certain cars and make the leases attractive. If they really need to move cars (like Honda and Accords) then they put a < 1% MF on the lease of the LX models a little higher on the others.

    That Honda lease promo expires May 2, but "who knows" it could be renewed or even made cheaper - or dropped. There is a large dealer incentive through the end of the month - but again who knows if they will increase, decrease, or drop this for May. They could also lower the residual a point or two for May, which if everything else stays the same means higher payments.

    So now is a good time to lease an Accord, may not be the BEST time all year - but for sure is a good time.

    As long as your old car is running fine and costing you nothing but gas and oil changes, that is the cheapest car you can own :D

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Yes, that is correct. Depending on the state you live in, but in most you fill have to pay sales tax on the lease buyout amount too - and a new title fee (to transfer the car from the lease bank's name to yours).

    Normally the lease bank will offer you a very competitive rate if you decide to keep the car. Honda Finance no longer negotiates the buyout price of lease returns, I am told. Used Hondas are easy to sell, so if you don't want to pay the agreed price then you just turn it in. Some lease banks (getting fewer all the time) will negotiate the selling price with you - if the buy out price of your turn in is more than what it will bring at a dealer auction. If you turn it in and it goes to auction, they will not get as much as they can get from you - so they will negotiate.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    The EX (no leather) and LX have a residual of 63% on a 36/36k lease.

    The EX-L with or without DCD have a residual of 60%

    The EX-L with NAV is 58%

    The money factor for all is 0.00154 (3.7%).

    So in the lease example you posted, it is the non leather truck so the 63% applies. You can get the same money factor for a 15k mile per year lease, 45k total for a 2% lower residual. If you think you might be over, then you should get the extra mile lease. So this would be 61% / 58% / 56% depending on the trim level you choose.

    The actual net cap cost in the example lease is just the new cap cost for the lease. If you plug that and the residual and the payment into a lease calc it will solve for the MF I just listed. In the example lease they call for the dealer to discount the truck some - and the rest of the money needed to get the net cap cost down to the figure they mention is out of YOUR pocket. They pick this number and the exact money factor to give round numbers: $279 a month with $2499 down or whatever.

    For example, carsdirect.com shows the EX (non leather) in the Atlanta area will sell for $27,311 ($300 under invoice). If you did the lease at this price, then you would only need $522 out of pocket for cap cost reduction to get to the $279 a month payment. You would also pay the $595 acq fee, security, and first month at signing - plus taxes, titles, etc. So this would be a good bit less at signing than the listed deal.

    Keep in mind, once you know the lease numbers (residual and MF) you can do it anyway you want to. You can pay more down (but why?) or have them roll the acq fee into the lease, pay a 0.0001 higher MF and they waive the security deposit. You can even roll the first payment into the lease along with all the other stuff and do a sign and drive. The more you roll in the higher the payment, of course.

    Dennis
  • rebekahrebekah Member Posts: 1
    I got suckered into leasing a vehicle by an automotive client of mine. He said we were rolling the leftover (upside down) money on my previous car in efforts to "clean the slate" at the end of the 3-year lease. The problem is...it was an irrational decision on my part because I don't really like the car and I don't really like the monthly payment...and I told myself that I would never lease a car again (I am in sales and drive a lot). Basically...he sold me. Anyhow, this September it will be 2-years in my lease. Some other automotive clients tell me that dealers can "get me out of my lease" and into a new car. But, I no doubt, have my hesitations and DO NOT want to jump the gun again. I want to be methodical in my next car purchase. So...do you think these other dealers are being truthful and can "get me out of my lease?" Or is there a BIG price I would be paying? :confuse:
  • hechthecht Member Posts: 6
    Dennis, thanks so much for your answer. I'm new to this site so I'm sure my questions have been asked millions of times before, as you suggest. How do I find out the Buy Rate Factor? Is this number relatively standard for a given car in a given location, or is this what I should have been negotiating from the start? Do you know what a competetive Buy Rate Factor is for the 2005 AWD Toyota Sienna XLE? Thanks again
  • hechthecht Member Posts: 6
    If I can't find the actual buy rate money factor since it's regional and there is no official site to get it, how do I negotiate a competetive money factor? Where do I even begin? How do I know if the dealer is giving me a money factor that's even in the ball park? Now for my stupidity: I've already committed to the car and negotiated the sale price, although I've always had in my mind that I was going to lease it. I've given a $ 1K deposit and they've installed a sunroof since it didn't have one. Do I have any room at this point to negotiate a money factor since we've never even discussed leasing before? Adam
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Call your lease bank and get a lease buyout amount. Be sure to get it itemized, since they will often include sales tax in the amount and if you sell the car to a dealer no tax will be due.

    The use the used car trade in value here at Edmunds, KBB, NADA, etc to evaluate your car with its options and miles.

    Compare the two numbers. If the trade in is a lot less than they buyout, then you are upside down in the lease. This may be fairly normal, but if you rolled other money into the lease you may be WAY under.

    If the difference is reasonable or in your favor, then you could "trade" the car in getting the dealer to buy it out of the lease.

    The way any dealer "Gets you out" of anything is just keep rolling the extra money into the next purchase. If you are upside down, they will just add this to your next car, etc. If you find a car you like with a promo finance rate like "0.0% for 60 months" or something, this CAN be a way to ease out of being upside down. With no interest you are not paying anything extra each month except the principal. Of course you will be upside down in this new car for a LONG time so you can't change your mind on it.

    Check the buy out price on your lease VS trade in value. If you are again way upside down then the best thing to do is just grit your teeth and stay in the lease until you either get right side up or it ends. Then you REALLY will be free of the extra debt.

    If you are in danger of going over your lease miles, then you should start saving now for the end of the lease since you will be charged for the over miles.

    Dennis
  • swassdaddyswassdaddy Member Posts: 28
    Thought I would give an update as well where I am at in negotiations with a Pilot EX-L (in Indy as well!):

    using carsdirect.com, got a quote back for the EX-L Red for:
    $29289 ($300 under invoice)
    (actually got an offer for $500 under invoice but this dealer is in the Westen Suburbs of Chicago (4 hours away) and I plan on leasing so I hear to avoid Illinois since I would have to pay tax on the entire purchase price).

    Penske gave me the quote of $30088 (which equated to $436/mo for 15K/yr for 36 month, only 1st month payment down). Once I told them they were $800 higher than the lowest quote they countered with $29489 ($100 under invoice), but they are only 10 min from home.

    Now this is where I need some assistance:
    in his last email he first brought up some fees that were originally not on the table and also a statement about dealer installed options:

    "Fees- 6% sales tax, $98 document fee, IN tire tax $1.25, Title transfer fee $15, Acquistion fee for Honda is $595. If the Pilot you choose has any dealer installed options on it, they are in addition to pricing quoted. "

    Now I have no problem with the tax, but should I be leary of this $98 document fee and $595 acquisition fee? Where did they acquire it from? It is already on the lot! Also, I did not ask for any dealer installed options, so should I refuse to pay for them or ask they be removed? Need some feedback, they are asking at Penske to have this deal wrapped up by 4-30!!! Still CarsDirect is $200 cheaper, gotta find out if any of these fees will pop-up there as well at Dealer X?? :confuse:
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    The rebates, promotions, and options available do vary from region to region. The finance numbers CAN as well. The numbers I have seen on the Sienna XLE (not limited) are 0.00215 and 63% for 36/36k lease.

    If the numbers the dealer gives you are a lot worse, then ask for the buy rate. If it does not get any better, then you can go with a 3rd party lease. leasecompare.com is showing 51% and 0.00210 with A+ credit. This may work out to be cheaper than what your dealer offers you - just check the numbers and see. Captive lease companies normally inflate the residual to make for cheaper leases, then they worry about selling your lease turn in later. 3rd party lease banks can't afford to do this, so their residuals tend to be more "Real world".

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Now for my stupidity

    Everyone makes mistakes, so don't sweat it. I have not heard of a non-refundable deposit in YEARS. So even if they have customized the van for you I would think you could still walk away.

    I posted the rates I have seen, just ask the finance guy what his numbers are. Then you can sign with them, go 3rd party lease (they buy the van at your price and lease it to you), or try to walk away. They may be more inclined to give you the better rate than have you walk away after they have modified the van.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    $98 document fee is a little extra dealer profit, but as doc fees go $98 is "reasonable" (not really, but compared to $300 and up....).

    The acquisition fee is the standard $595 for Honda financial and is not extra dealer profit. It is just part of the lease.

    The dealer installed option thing is fair - or a "Trick". Some dealers have packed options on EVERY car on the lot so they can low-ball the price then "make" you take the extras. Or it could be just fair - you show up and there are 2 Pilots in your color to choose from. One has nothing added and one has $2k of stuff added. It would not be fair for you to choose the loaded up one and demand it for the price agreed upon. So I think if you know the color(s) you want, I would ask the dealer what they have in stock in that/those color(s) and what all has been added to each. If they don't have one with little or nothing added that you want, then I would say don't bother going.

    In my case, we got free mud flaps since they were on the car and I didn't pay for them. Other quotes we got varied the same way - if they had added a lot of stuff then the quote was more, if nothing/little added it was less.

    You should make sure they are charging you the buy rate on the lease as well. You have to negotiate the price of the car (which you have done) but then make sure they are giving you the buy rate on the lease - or you are giving them back money.

    I think the lease deal does until May 2, but I am sure the dealer wants your sale to count for April so that accounts for the time limit. I don't blame them, and if I were you I would try to get the deal done by Saturday. Come a new month most dealers will immediately be harder to deal with. End of month is the best time.

    Dennis
  • hechthecht Member Posts: 6
    Dennis, you and this web site are incredible. Your knowledge base and ability to explain things in layman's terms is impressive and greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
  • ckigginsckiggins Member Posts: 68
    I HATE those little "dealer installed options." There are a couple of dealers here in STL that automatically put pinstriping (BLAH), splash guards, etc. on every car that comes on the lot and then expect you to just deal with it and pay for it.

    Most of the other stuff can be taken off, but the pinstriping can't - which ticks me off. They just assume that everyone wants that and is going to buy it. Not I!
  • beenhadhondabeenhadhonda Member Posts: 10
    Dennis,
    Thanks for the info. If I understand you correctly, the financing I have now, which is based on Cap Cost + Res. value (The whole car one and a half times), and if I decide to buy it at the end of the term, I'll have to finance the Res. value again?
    If this is so, what a rip-off. It's like you paid financing for the whole car twice. I'll never lease again. I expected that I'd have to pay tax and other fees, in fact the sales tax I'm paying now is on the financing and Depreciation, so I havn't paid tax on the Res. value.

    beenhadhonda
  • hechthecht Member Posts: 6
    Dennis, last question since after reading your response I'm suddenly confused. If you're suggesting that a 3rd party lease company such as leasecompare.com could do a better deal, then I would think their residual would be higher and therefore the lease payments lower? But you had it the other way around in your answer. I believe you indicated that Toyota has the residual in the 63% range, and the 3rd party company has it in the 51 % range. And you're also indicating that, at least for these 3rd party companies, they do fudge with the residual? Thanks again, Adam
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    That is sort of true, since the lease bank paid for the whole car up front you owe interest on the full amount. If you got a $20k car they had to pay $20k to the dealer. At the end of the lease you can turn it in or pay $10k + tax to buy it out.

    In my state, sales tax is due on any cap cost reduction and then is added to the payment. This does mean you are paying tax on interest - but I like this arrangement better than having to pay tax on the whole car up front - or even paying tax on the depreciation up front.

    But the way I look at a lease deal is:

    1) Figure out how much the payments would be with traditional finance at a term that gets the payments where you need them to be. Say 5% for 60 months.
    2) Total up the 60 payments and that is your total cost to purchase
    3) Now figure your lease payments, add the tax, and total them up
    4) Now calculate the tax on the residual and how much it would cost per month to finance, say 5.5% for 36 months.
    5) Add up all the buy out payments and all the lease payments and compare to the amount you got in step 2.
    6) If the amount from step 5 is a lot higher, then these is a bad lease then buy deal
    7) If the amount in step 5 is close to or less than step 2 numbers, then this is a good lease/buy deal

    Honda will lease Accords this month for right around 1% effective money factor. They will also do 1.9% but for only 36 months - which is probably too short for most folks. So I feel pretty sure if you do the lease then buy using Honda's cheap lease money this month you will come out ahead VS getting a higher rate loan and financing - for sure if you have to go 72 months to drop the payments where you need them to be.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Sorry for the confusion. 3rd party lease banks get their residuals from the ALG and the dealer or lease broker can't change them.

    If the customer was able to get the BUY rate from the Toyota dealer then that should be cheaper than a 3rd party lease - just based on the inflated residual. However if the dealership jacks the MF way up and will not give the buy rate, then you can look at a 3rd party lease. In this case the MF is lower but the residual is too. Compared to the buy rate captive lease I can tell it will be higher without getting out a calculator. With an inflated MF from the dealer it is POSSIBLE the 3rd party number would be as good or better.

    The difference between captive and ALG residual numbers can be a little or a lot, which is why it is always a good idea to compare what you can get VS what the dealer and captive financing offers. Any time you see car_man say "there is no special lease program" or something like that, odds are pretty good a 3rd party lease will be as good or better.

    If you were planning on doing a lease, then buy (as we were just talking about) then having an inflated residual just means you pay less up front but more at buyout. If you can get a lower MF 3rd party and a more "Real world" residual you might be better off.

    Dennis
  • abarnezabarnez Member Posts: 2
    I've been offered the following new car lease alternatives, and I'm wondering whether they are reasonable or not:

    Volvo V70R, MSRP $48,315, $750 security deposit, $595 acquisition fee, first month's lease payment, title and license fees at closing in each case:

    1. $710/mo plus tax through Volvo Finance for 36mos/15,000 miles per year,
    2. $746/mo plus tax through Volvo Finance for 36mos/18,000 miles per year,
    3. $671/mo plus tax through 3rd party leasing company for 36mos/18,000 miles per year,
    4. $716/mo plus tax through 3rd party leasing company for 36mos/18,000 miles per year.

    In cases 3 and 4 the dealer has used a $4,000 incentive payment from Volvo (for cars financed through 3rd party leasing companies) to reduce the cap cost.

    What do you think? I've told the dealer I really don't want to pay for several accessories that are on the car (nav and subwoofer). Is is reasonable to think I can negotiate a lower monthly payment?

    Thanks for your insights!
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    Rule #1 of leasing (or buying) a car is negotiate the price. You don't show that so it is impossible to know if any of these is a good deal or not. Invoice on this car would be around $45,500 then less the $4,000 for $41,500 where the dealer just makes the hold back. Figure some REASONABLE profit over this - but keep in mind they can't sell these cars.

    The Volvo "r" cars have been really SLOW sellers, so there is dealer cash on both of them. But the catch is you can't use Volvo leasing - they don't want the car back at lease end to have to sell again!

    The sub and NAV are probably factory installed options, and as such there is zero incentive for the dealer to remove them. You can check other Volvo dealerships around and find one that suits you better if you don't want to pay extra for these items. For less than the extra cost of the NAV and sub you could easily have a car shipped to you from another dealer or fly in and drive it home.

    Dennis
  • djocksdjocks Member Posts: 124
    Jet,

    I think i may have phrased my post wrong. Unfortunately I am not looking to unload my 330i

    To the board,
    I was just wondering if anyone would recommend taking over a lease from someone else?

    I was thinking of taking someone elses lease for my next auto.....

    any advise?

    djocks
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I posted this just the other day:

    Now if you are LOOKING to take one over, the trouble is so many of these deals are just bad deals and would not be something you would be likely to want. Only if you found something that was way ahead on miles would most of them be worth thinking about.

    There may be some good deals, but usually when I browse the leasetrade type sights I see one bad deal after another. Cars I can lease new much cheaper than what they have.

    I am sure there are deals that do appear, you would have to just watch for them.

    Dennis
  • t_o_n_yt_o_n_y Member Posts: 6
    I know leasing programs change, but was wondering what the current programs are for the Mazda3S Sedan. I qualify for S-Plan, which I understand should get me about $100-$200 below invoice? The model I want has an invoice price including destination of $18,201 (auto, bags & brakes, Sport pkg, and rearview mirror upgrade w/o Homelink), and would like the best lease price up to 48 months with 12K per year. I think 36 months would be ideal, but if longer is a better deal overall, I will consider it.
  • mister8mister8 Member Posts: 5
    Sale price: 38,130
    36 month lease 15K mi /year
    No Down
    910.26 Drive off
    555.74 mo (incl Tax)
    Money factor : .00206

    Is this a good deal? Anyone have better?
    Thanks.
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    2005 Acura MDX 4dr 4x4 3.5L w/Touring and Nav System shows invoice as $38,829 - so you are getting the truck for $700 under invoice.

    The buy rate on the lease is 0.00196, so it looks like asked for the security deposit to be waived so they added 0.0001 for the MF. If you are not getting the security deposit to be waived then the dealer jacked the rate up slightly.

    Looks good to me - pricing under dealer cost and a lease at the buy rate.

    Dennis
  • abarnezabarnez Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for your very helpful insights. The cap cost used on the Volvo Finance lease is $46,552. The cap cost on the 3rd party lease is $42,552 (i.e., $4,000 dealer cash applied to reduce cap cost). Edmunds pricing report says the invoice on this is $44,997, so I think this means the dealer would earn a $2,445 gross profit on this deal, before his costs of doing business are accounted for. What do you think about my math and the amount of gross profit?

    Thanks again for your help!
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I think your invoice price is higher - did you add all the options from the sticker into the Edmunds price? I checked and with a car loaded up near the MSRP you posted would invoice for around $45,500. If you have a copy of the sticker you can make sure each item is present on your invoice calculation.

    You lease numbers look OK. I checked at leasecompare.com for a V70r with an MSRP of $48,500 and a selling price of $42,500 and got $718/month + tax for 36 months for an 18k per year lease. So it sounds like the 3rd party numbers the dealer gave you are fair. You might see if you can trim the profit a little more on the deal - or if you find the same car w/o the NAV and sub the payments will be a bit less.

    Dennis
  • bluewolfbluewolf Member Posts: 101
    Car_Man, Subaru advertises a sign & drive $189/mo for 48 mos lease on the Impreza 2.5 RS. Is this also available for 36 mos? I know the MF doubles from .0005 to .001 and residual goes up for the shorter lease obviously.

    Trying to figure out what my 36 mo payment would be for a sign & drive (if available).

    On a subvented lease like this, I understand the dealer cannot adjust the money factor or residual, it's pretty much set in stone from Subaru. Should I still negotiate a car price in relation to invoice, or is it all preset on these kind of deals?
  • leroybrown71leroybrown71 Member Posts: 26
    I've been negotiating with a local Lincoln dealer for an 05 Navigator. Here's what I've got at this point.
    2005 Navi Ultimate 4x2 w/ power deployable running boards,
    MSRP 55790
    Sale price 49,999
    3,000 Rebates ( 2000 cash back, 1000 for financing with FMC )
    44% residual , 2.5 lease rate ( .00104 money factor ) on 39 mo, 12k/yr lease
    I was quoted $649 / month, with just the first payment down.
    $649 only due at signing. When i plug those #'s into a lease calc, it always comes up higher?? I asked again if that paymt includes TTL and he said yes.
    Does everything look ok or am I missing something?
    Also, isn't there a 1095$ rebate for the running boards? or is that just on a purchase?

    Edit::::: forgot to include - sales tax here is 6.25% on cars.
  • d_nyholmd_nyholm Member Posts: 80
    Does anyone have the current BMW 05 M3 residuals and money factors? For a 30 or 36 month lease with 12K miles/year? Thanks in advance.
    Dennis :shades:
  • mister22mister22 Member Posts: 32
    Considering the pros and cons of leasing vs financing. Does anyone know if in order to take advantage of only paying tax on the difference between the new car and trade-in your trade-in must be registered in the state (ones that have this money-saving law) in which you buy the new car? Thanks for the help.

    mister22
  • apraskovapraskov Member Posts: 3
    I know that this question is a little off-topic, but nevertheless, can I refinance the drivers option program I just signed for?
    It's for a 05 Jetta GLS TDI Auto, and the financed amount was $21,000 for 4 years with one balloon payment at the end of approx. $10,500.
    The interest was very high (8.25%). I was told by a few dealers that there was no special financing available for lease or drivers option on the old style TDI, and while I doubted that, I was pressed to sign because there were very few old-style TDIs left available, and that was the model and color that my wife badly wanted.
    Thanks
  • drizz36drizz36 Member Posts: 2
    I think I am over my head, but I have been trying to learn lease language, but I sure could use some help. Looking to lease an 05 Subaru Legacy GT Limited with spoiler, auto dimming mirror/compass, and security system upgrade.
    -Negotiated Sell price of $26087
    -MSRP 29,831

    The terms given to me in a lease deal were as follows:
    -3 years
    -15,000 miles per year
    -49% residual value (Negotiable? Sound OK??) Residual Value is $14,617.19.
    -I believe the money factor is .0013, as the sheet I was given says 3.250% Adjusted/Sell Rate, so divided by 2400 gets the money factor. Is this right?? It doesn't seem to add up right with the monthly payment they offer.
    -It has me putting down $4000, with a payment of $298.36 per month.
    -There is a balloon payment of $14617.19 after three years to buy the car.
    -The total financed is 23,211.09
    -Taxes and fees are 1124.09 (tax is 7% in Pa)
    -Another odd twist is that I own my trade in outright, so they are paying the balance of $8000 to me.
    -They are giving me $12000 for my 03 VW Jetta GLI in good condition except the tires need replaced.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.
  • buckeyemanbuckeyeman Member Posts: 7
    Thanks Car_ man,

    This is my first time leasing, and I've read everything on here about leasing to try and better educate myself, but it's still confusing. I'll try working on the dealer some more. New incentives on this truck are due out 5/4. The residual value drops the more you get into the model year correct?

    Thanks, Karl
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