I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

fintail · June 2020

I'd make a similar joke about that name. I also remember the Daihatsu Charade was pretending to be a car, and a Suzuki Esteem might give you a lack of that trait (although I'll admit I thought the Esteem wagon was decent looking).

Oh yeah, saw a couple of first gen Geo Metro - a 3 door and 5 door.

uplanderguy · June 2020

RE.: Pushbutton start....drove my wife's Equinox to NAPA to buy oil and filter for our Stude and opened the door with the fob in my pants pocket, stood outside the car but between the door and the interior, and had accidentally left the car running....no beeping, honking, etc., of any kind. Bad design IMHO. I don't know if I had gotten farther away from the car if I'd have heard something or not. With a key, I'd have gotten the chime as soon as the door opened of course.

ab348 · June 2020

With my ATS it chirps at you if you do that and walk more than a couple of feet away from the car.

tjc78 · June 2020

You should have gotten a beep when you got a little further away. GM is usually a quick 3 toot of the horn.

benjaminh · June 2020

andre1969 said:
....the Citation and other X-cars would have been just fine, if they had been built better from the get-go. Also, in their downsizing quest, one of GM's primary objectives was to have the downsized cars maintain the interior room of the cars they replaced, or even increase it, if possible. And when it came to space efficiency, the X-cars probably exceeded in that respect, even moreso than the B/C and A/G bodies. Being RWD, the mid-and full-sized cars were compromised a bit compared to their forebears, with larger transmission/driveshaft humps and, in the case of the midsized cars, some serious dashboard intrusion in the center spot. But the X-body, going to FWD, eliminated the transmission/driveshaft hump....

Starting 30 seconds in there's a c. 15-minute GM training film for the new 1980 Chevy Citation. I remember thinking that Toyota and Honda might be in trouble because of the X-cars. For the first year or so they couldn't make them fast enough to keep up with sales, and so I guess this film might have helped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW8nBN1thTE

uplanderguy · June 2020

They sold like crazy when introduced, and they cranked 'em out at Tarrytown, NY and Ypsilanti, MI, IIRC...definitely Tarrytown.

I know someone who ordered one and waited seven months for it.

They were a good bit larger than the only other domestic FWD at the time, the Omni/Horizon.

I remember when an internal QC report on one pulled from the line at Tarrytown scored 38 out of 150, and somebody there leaked it to the press, LOL.

kyfdx · June 2020

uplanderguy said:
RE.: Pushbutton start....drove my wife's Equinox to NAPA to buy oil and filter for our Stude and opened the door with the fob in my pants pocket, stood outside the car but between the door and the interior, and had accidentally left the car running....no beeping, honking, etc., of any kind. Bad design IMHO. I don't know if I had gotten farther away from the car if I'd have heard something or not. With a key, I'd have gotten the chime as soon as the door opened of course.

I'm going to break it to you gently. It works really well, and as designed.

uplanderguy · June 2020

I'm delighted you feel that way. When I can open the door with the vehicle running and no chime goes off....

We own three vehicles with keys, and one without. I wish the one, had them.

andre1969 · June 2020

That guy announcing the Citation is giving me a serious flashback to "The People's Court".

On paper, the Citation really did seem like it could be a serious contender. Interesting, how in that opening montage, they were trying to say it was a car that could be all things to all people...inexpensive compact, fuel-miser, comfy 5-seater, cargo hauler, etc.

When you think about it though, it pretty much cut the pattern for the boilerplate American-market intermediate for nearly 40 years. The standard template has been FWD, relatively compact dimensions, seating for 5 (occasional 6), standard 4-cyl engine and, up until recently, optional V6.

Heck, considering how common turbo engines are in mainstream cars these days, maybe Mopar was a bit of ahead of their time when they started putting them in as upgrade engines, before they had widespread use of the Mitsubishi 3.0, and then their own 3.3/3.8 V6es.

omarman · June 2020

That guy announcing the Citation is giving me a serious flashback to "The People's Court".
I used to have 70s hair. Now that's a serious flashback.

Timing is everything.Studebaker advertised a FWD car(riage) with opera windows and landau top about a 100 years before the Ford LTD Landau. About the same horsepower too.

andre1969 · June 2020

Didn't Citroen make something like that called a Deux Chevaux?

omarman · June 2020

Long time ago @hpmctorque started a topic called The Best Cars From The '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s. For the 50s I suggested Cadillac, Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa and the Austin Mini.

Today I just got a C&D link to The Greatest Cars of All Time: The Fifties

Not that I expect click bait articles to match my own concept of greatness but their list was only 2 cars and I kept looking for the rest of it. I can't wait for The Eighties installment. If everything built in the 50s amounts to only 2 picks for greatness then how many GOAT picks will the 80s yield?

ab348 · June 2020

Car magazines today employ children of the ‘80s and ‘90s so don’t expect any insight about anything older than a VW GTI or Honda Prelude.

uplanderguy · June 2020

I know this isn't the place, but I drove the Equinox to the airport today. How Consumer Reports can say this is one of the quietest small SUV's out there, and also online ratings of the Michelin Premier LTX show them to be a quiet tire, is a mystery to me. My ears must be "set" at some frequency different from those guys.

I do like the general styling and size, but my Cruze is significantly quieter in the road noise department.

uplanderguy · June 2020

Studebaker started building carriages in South Bend in 1852 and lasted there building finished vehicles, for over 111 years. Corporate remained there for several more years. Thanks for posting the carriage photo, omarman. They built vehicles for military use from the Civil War through VietNam.

fintail · June 2020

The bathub Packard that shares a garage with the fintail was actually out on the road today, definitely an obscure car these days.

For the 50s "greatest" list, no knocks on either of those choices, but I'd rank the W198 300SL, with its tubular frame and direct injection, up there with anything.

uplanderguy · June 2020

What a delightful 'spot' this morning while out getting a breakfast biscuit...a dark gray/green Corvair Rampside pickup, white stripe around the center as was typical, looked and sounded nice; full wheelcovers with slightly wider-than-correct whitewalls.

It had the extra taillight reflectors inboard of the taillights, which for some reason makes me think it's a later one--'64 maybe?

Been a looonnngggg time since I've seen one of those on the streets.

benjaminh · June 2020

During the 80s as GM's market share was falling, and it was being criticized sometimes for similar looking cars, I remember reading comments from GM insiders in the car magazines that people just had to wait for the huge multi-billion dollar GM10 project. GM10 would turn things around it was said. But when the GM10 cars finally arrived iirc they were a bit of a letdown in terms of sales and everything else. But Motorweek liked them back in 1990 in this retro review from that year....Difficult to believe that 30 years have passed. Saturn was just ramping up too around this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd_yWfm7Lww

fintail · June 2020

Saw a yellow Saturn Sky this morning.

Definitely never seen one of those Olds with a 4cyl and 5 speed.

stickguy · June 2020

Man that cutlass supreme has dome amazing visibility. Low each, tons of glass, and Wrap around rear window,

uplanderguy · June 2020

I thought the first Saturn sedan roofline looked very close to that era Cutlass Supreme sedan.

I thought it was odd that when first introduced, the GM-10's were only coupes. That left only the old Celebrity/6000/Ciera/Century for mid-size sedans at the time.

benjaminh · June 2020

Back in 1994 Motorweek liked the Acura Integra GS-R....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ncEJBeDFM

ab348 · June 2020

I remember traveling to Florida on business in '88 or '89 and getting the then-new Regal coupe as a rental at the airport. They were not round in great numbers yet and I looked forward to having it for the week. It was fine - I remember the keypad style square radio being a bit strange - but the Chevy 2.8L V-6 was underwhelming as usual. It certainly didn't make me want to buy one when I got back home. The Quad Four HO in that Cutlass tested by Motorweek above was surprisingly zippy for the times.

laurasdada · June 2020

Vacationing in NH, saw a Nissan Murano CrossCabrio thing. Hopefully, that will not be the highlight of the week!

Michaell · June 2020

laurasdada said:
Vacationing in NH, saw a Nissan Murano CrossCabrio thing. Hopefully, that will not be the highlight of the week!

I saw one of those today, as well.

I look at them as kind of a luxury Jeep Wrangler (4x4 convertible SUV)

andre1969 · June 2020

I think GM kinda shot themselves in the foot with the GM10 coupes. They were over-estimating the value of the personal luxury coupe market, and focused on them, when they should have been working on a serious contender to the Ford Taurus. Now, to their credit, those GM10s were differentiated more than the G-body coupes they replaced. But, at the same time, that might have pigeonholed/"typecast" the cars. The Monte Carlo, Cutlass Supreme, Regal, and to a lesser degree the Grand Prix, were cars that could be all things to all people, depending on how they were equipped. You could trim them out to be a fairly modest commuter/family car that still had some style, and didn't look too cheap. You could slap wire wheels, a landau roof, velour interior, and white walls on them and have a luxurious car that catered to the blue-haired set. Or, throw on some rally wheels and fatter tires, and it would dress up even the luxurious models quite nicely. And finally, in the case of the SS/442/T-type/Grand National, you could turn it into a musclecar. The Grand Prix 2+2, not so much...it still had the "LOOK AT ME" look, but just didn't have the power to back it up, as it just used the 150 hp 305, and not the 180 hp Monte SS unit.

But then 1988 came around, and the Grand Prix seemed to focus mostly on performance. The Regal tried to be more of a "traditional" American coupe, and probably retained the "personal luxury" formula the best. The Cutlass Supreme seemed to be going for a more sophisticated, cutting edge crowd, trying to be an import fighters. But, the Grand Prix seemed to become a bit of a caricature of itself in short time, being more "boy racer" and "Ribs & Wings"-performance, than the type of performance Pontiac used to be known for. The Regal just seemed to turn into an old people's car. As for the Cutlass Supreme, well it turned out that "your Father's Oldsmobile" wasn't such a bad car after all and well, there aren't too many imports that you try to fight off with a domestic midsized coupe.

The GM10s were modestly successful their first year out, but then it seemed sales dropped fast. For example, here's how the Regal coupe did:
1988: ~130,000
1989: ~89,000
1990: ~55,000
1991: ~24,000 (the new 4-door that year sold around 119,000. There was also a Gran Sport, offered as a 2 or 4 door. It sold 12,965 units, but my book doesn't break out sedan/coupe production for it)
1992: ~24,000 (including Gran Sport, which was broken out this year)
1993: ~14,000
1994: ~18,000
1995: No coupe/sedan breakout, but 100,169 total were sold.
1996: 5,991 coupes, 107,056 sedans.

When the 4-door models came out, they seemed to have sort of a rushed-together look about them. And worse, they made me think a bit of the old days, where the manufacturers often designed the coupe first and foremost, and then threw the sedan together as a bit of an afterthought, with the attitude that people bought coupes because they wanted to; they bought sedans because they had to. The formula might have worked in the old days, when the coupe was king, but it was outdated thinking by the 90's.

GM's market timing used to be impeccable. And even if they weren't first to a certain segment (El Camino type vehicles, pony cars, personal luxury coupes, intermediate cars, etc), it usually wasn't long before they dominated said segment.

But, once the 80's came around, it seemed like they were starting to lose their magic. Supposedly, the J- (Cavalier) and A- (Celebrity) didn't sell nearly as well initially as they had hoped for, although to be fair, 1982 was a horrible year for the economy in general. When the FWD C-bodies came out for 1985, the fuel was flowing cheap and easy again, and big car sales were starting to return. The Cadillac did fairly well, but the Electra/Ninety-Eight only had a couple of good years, then fell off fast. Similarly, when the H-body (LeSabre/88) came out for 1986, it was a bit underwhelming. The LeSabre actually sold fairly well, but the 88 took a pretty big hit compared to the 1985 B-body Delta. Oh, and let's not forget the '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera/Seville.

The N-body, especially in Grand Am guise, was a bright spot. These cars were initially intended to replace the Cutlass Supreme/Regal/et al, as a second-wave downsize of the personal luxury coupes. But, by the time they hit the market, those RWD cars were still selling pretty well. So the N-body was re-positioned as sort of an import fighter, like a cut-rate BMW 3-series. Naturally, it wasn't, but, it still sold fairly well for awhile.

uplanderguy · June 2020

'82 J-cars and mid-size FWD sedans were two lousy launches spaced very closely.

Both were very expensive lines of cars. Add to that the very anemic 1.8 liter used in the J cars, and the '83 revisions, which included lowering of prices IIRC, were a good thing.

Another reason or two why I consider '83 at GM to be better than '81 and '82.

fintail · June 2020

I've seen in old newspaper ads that the price differential between a Celebrity and Caprice was pretty small in at least the first couple years of the former. As fuel prices leveled off by then, it must have been a tough sell unless someone really needed FWD.

tjc78 · June 2020

Those N body Grand Ams were pretty popular. Decent looking car the times especially when equipped with the grey body cladding. Very 90s!

andre1969 · June 2020

Here's a few Chevy prices from 1982 (all 4-door models for a direct comparison)
Cavalier Cadet 112 4-cyl: $6433
Cavalier sedan: 112 4cyl: $7137
Cavalier CL 112 4cyl: $8137
Celebrity 151 4-cyl: $8463
Celebrity 173 V6: $8568
Malibu 229 V6: $ 8137
Malibu 267 V8: $8207
Impala 229 V6: $7918
Impala 267 V8: $7988
Caprice Classic 229 V6: $8367
Caprice Classic 267 V8: $8437

So basically, a 4-cyl Celebrity MSRP'ed for slightly more than a V8 Caprice! Not only that, but the Caprice had a pretty nice interior. The Celebrity, at that point, most likely just had an Impala-level interior. You had to buy a package like "CS" or "CL" or something like that, if you wanted a nice interior.

And I'm wondering, would the Cavalier CL, even at that price point, still had a manual transmission standard? The Impala/Caprice had a standard automatic since what? 1974? And it was 1982 that the Malibu and all the other G-bodies got the automatic standard.

No wonder these cars were initially such poor sellers! I remember C&D or one of those similar magazines testing a 305 Caprice, either '82 or '83. They mentioned that despite the recession and expensive gasoline, they were pretty much going out the door for close to sticker price, while the Celebrity needed deep discounts to move.

To be fair though, GM did reduce production of the Caprice/Impala. While they had been good for 500-600K or more annually in '77-79, they were probably cut to around 250K in 1982. So while overall demand for something that big did drop, the reduced production meant that people who were in the market for something like this didn't exactly have a glut of them to choose from.

benjaminh · June 2020

Today I saw a c. 1985 Cavalier station wagon that looked to be in great shape. I was driving myself and so no time to snap a pic, but it was similar to this....

So a 35 year old Cavalier. The guy driving it looked to be about 75 or so, and somehow he had the look of an original owner. This probably coupon-clipping citizen has possibly saved a small fortune by hanging onto this car. I had no idea a Cavalier could last that long. But garaged with good maintenance I guess it's possible. Wonder if it has the original engine. I still remember the ad campaign from 1981: "The complete Chevrolet—Cavalier!" Couldn't find that ad, but below is a 5-minute dealer training film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGYMgggGoAE

andre1969 · June 2020

One of my friends in high school and college had an '85 Cavalier sedan. It died in 1994, around the 112,000 mile mark. But, it was some electrical problems that killed it. As far as I know, he never had any engine or transmission issues. At that point, I think his family just donated it or junked it, rather than bothering to get it fixed.

To replace it, his parents gave him their Toyota hatchback. I'm thinking it was a Corolla, even though I always picture them as a 4-door sedan, which was probably much more popular. At least I'm pretty sure it wasn't a Tercel. It was around a 1986-87. It died around the 70,000 mile mark, with sludge issues, before that word became fashionable at Toyota. But, his family really wasn't the type to take good care of their cars.

After college graduation, I didn't see him for awhile, but then he started working at the same facility as me, and we met up. He had just gotten a well-paying engineering job, and treated himself to a brand new Trans Am, red with silver trim. I think it was a 1995. I lost contact with him a couple years after that, though, so I don't know how long he had it.

Now, I've known a couple of people with Cavalier Z24s, that had the 2.8 V6, and they succumbed to head gasket issues. One was an '87, but my friend's father was a mechanic, and was able to fix it for him. But, a year or so after that, he got into a fight with his father, joined the Navy, and I think the old man took the car back and sold it. The other Cavalier was an '89 Z24 coupe, a pretty sharp looking car, actually. Around 1997, its head gasket blew, and he ended up trading it for a new Civic. He was in medical school at the time, so he had bigger financial priorities than a fancy car. Lost contact with him, as well, but I imagine by now, he's probably driving something pretty exotic. I did stalk him on Whitepages.com and (presuming it's the same guy, of course), he's now living in a big house in a gated community in a ritzy neighborhood. Probably the kind of area where they'd call code enforcement on you if you parked a Civic in your yard!

fintail · June 2020

I always thought the Cavalier wagon was decent looking. I remember I knew a kid in grade school who's family had one, two tone blue. I also recall a kid I knew in high school had a maybe 86-87 Z24 coupe as his first car, also two tone blue. This was around 1993, and it was still a relatively modern and decent car.

My grandma had a few Cavaliers. I think the first was a red 87 sedan, and then 3 or 4 after that, like clockwork every 4-5 years, until she passed away in late 2004. I drove the 87 soon after I started driving in 1992, I remember I took it to a car wash for her - I want to say it had "graph paper" style background on the dash. Not sure why I recall that so clearly.

For those Celebrity vs Caprice price deltas, I think it was 1983 data - I recall looking at some 1983 newspapers online. I will see if I can find them again, old ads are a fun read.

uplanderguy · June 2020

Here's the first Cavalier commercial I can remember seeing--that last segment wouldn't play today, LOL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIj96aUCjoE

I remember they came out early, in 1981, as an '82 model.

uplanderguy · June 2020

Never saw many of them, but the hatch ("Type 10") was a nice-looking car I think.

When I bought my wife a new 5-speed Corsica in '90, I asked if she'd want a Cavalier wagon, which was about the same price (I'd have preferred that). Since she was 25, she didn't want a wagon.

uplanderguy · June 2020

One thing I liked about the '82--more brightwork outside than what followed in later years.

Seeing the taillights reminds me--a friend and I drove around the Lordstown plant before introduction and I remember seeing one sitting outside an overhead door to the building. It reminded me then, and now, of a Triumph TR-7 from the rear.

texases · June 2020

A neighbor of mine got a Cavalier wagon with an AT when they first came out, he was very disappointed with the mileage and performance. He was getting 16 mpg or so, and thought it was sloooow.

fintail · June 2020

Some ads from November/December of 83 - a few of them I had to crop a bit as it was hard to grab with the newspaper viewer without zooming too far out to capture:

Appleway has a bit of a difference between Celebrity and Caprice:

But Dave Smith has some cheap Caprices:

A couple of leftovers, not a lot of difference:

A few weeks later, Appleway again, and some Toyotas:

uplanderguy · June 2020

Speaking of dealerships, my daughter in CA has an appt. Wed. for her Cruze, to have an oil change, tire rotation, and look for a reason why her LF tire is losing 5-6 lbs. every couple months. I like using GM Dexos full-synthetic on a Chevy; hence, the dealership. Her first time for an oil change. I call the place, speak to a person, ask where the key drop-off (after hours) is; am informed of that; daughter calls a few hours later and says both entrances to the place (Chevy-MB dealership) are deliberately blocked by cars so she can't drop it. Wasted trip and now she'll have to wait there. Grrrr.

tjc78 · July 2020

texases said:
A neighbor of mine got a Cavalier wagon with an AT when they first came out, he was very disappointed with the mileage and performance. He was getting 16 mpg or so, and thought it was sloooow.

My Cousin’s first car was a hand me down Cavalier wagon. He pleaded with his parents to let him sell it to buy an 81 Regal. They gave in and that car was actually pretty good to a teen driver.

fintail · July 2020

Chevy-MB dealership? Now that's an oddity. I'd have imagined in CA any MB dealer would do enough business to be standalone. Does she live in a time machine from 1968?

Thinking of Cavaliers, when I was in 2nd grade or so, I remember the mom of one of my best friends had a white "Type 10" fastback - it had a sunroof (aftermarket I suppose) which I thought was pretty cool. Their other car was a white K10 Blazer, must have been a Chevy family.

uplanderguy · July 2020

It's in San Luis Obispo. The Chevy end of it is the ugly redheaded stepchild for sure, LOL. I've taken her car there twice in the year she's been out there, for oil changes/tire rotations. She's doing this for the first time herself. Been a bit of a cluster so far. They don't do tire repairs, and the coupon I saw on their page, the service writer told my daughter she couldn't find. I saw it there a second time, with a fifteen-second search.

Stuff like this makes me crazy. It's small, which is why it shouldn't happen.

andre1969 · July 2020

Dunno how I stumbled across this, but, OUCH!!

https://www.copart.com/lot/48200267/Photos

In the overall scheme of things, probably no great loss, as it looks like it was fairly beat on, from the interior. But, I love the color, which Mopar called "Teal Green Sunfire Metallic". Looks like the body was fairly solid, too. And, it was a 360 car. Just a 2-bbl with 150 hp stock (the "K" digit in the VIN), but a welcome change over the 135 hp 318-2bbl that was much more common.

I think those hubcaps are off of a 1970 or so Chrysler New Yorker.

stickguy · July 2020

that's a crusher.

fintail · July 2020

Roof tear is something - but I suppose it held up well for something of its age.

omarman · July 2020

WTVJ / MIAMI - Bob Mayer 'Behind The Wheel' Of The 1979 Chrysler New Yorker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP9429qtWTc
Fun to watch these "Behind The Wheel" local car test drives on YouTube. The New Yorker looks good with 5th Avenue trim but some pretty serious build quality issues typical of domestic cars from that era.

uplanderguy · July 2020

Seems I never saw very many Newports of that era. Also seems like I saw a disproportionate number of beige New Yorker Fifth Avenues of that generation.

andre1969 · July 2020

They actually sold somewhat tolerably in 1979: 78,296 Newports and 54,640 New Yorkers. The Newport was popular as a police car and taxi though, so no doubt the number of civilian models was considerably lower. It probably made its way into a lot of rental fleets as well.

I read somewhere that the 5th Avenue Edition, which only came in that two tone "Designer Beige over Designer Creme" in '79, accounted for about 15,000 sales. So, it was probably the most commonly seen R-body, when you take model name and color into account. Plus, with its high price, people who bought the 5th Avenues probably took better care of them, and held onto them longer than lesser models.

One thing I just noticed...the Newport seemed a bit expensive, in MSRP. For instance, in '79 it started at $6405 for a 4-door with the slant six. The cheapest LeSabre 4-door sedan was $6110, while a Limited was $6620. The Delta 88 started at $6212 for the cheapest sedan, and $6524 for the popular Royale. The Newport offered an upgraded interior that would have put it on par with a Limited or Royale, but it was an option, rather than a separate trim level, so my old car book doesn't break out pricing.

A $200-300 price difference doesn't seem like a lot at first, but adjusting for inflation, today it's about $700-1050. That's probably enough to matter to a lot of buyers, unless the more expensive car is something you really gotta have. Of course, they probably offered deep discounts on the R-body pretty quickly.

sda · July 2020

andre1969 said:
They actually sold somewhat tolerably in 1979: 78,296 Newports and 54,640 New Yorkers. The Newport was popular as a police car and taxi though, so no doubt the number of civilian models was considerably lower. It probably made its way into a lot of rental fleets as well.

I read somewhere that the 5th Avenue Edition, which only came in that two tone "Designer Beige over Designer Creme" in '79, accounted for about 15,000 sales. So, it was probably the most commonly seen R-body, when you take model name and color into account. Plus, with its high price, people who bought the 5th Avenues probably took better care of them, and held onto them longer than lesser models.

One thing I just noticed...the Newport seemed a bit expensive, in MSRP. For instance, in '79 it started at $6405 for a 4-door with the slant six. The cheapest LeSabre 4-door sedan was $6110, while a Limited was $6620. The Delta 88 started at $6212 for the cheapest sedan, and $6524 for the popular Royale. The Newport offered an upgraded interior that would have put it on par with a Limited or Royale, but it was an option, rather than a separate trim level, so my old car book doesn't break out pricing.

A $200-300 price difference doesn't seem like a lot at first, but adjusting for inflation, today it's about $700-1050. That's probably enough to matter to a lot of buyers, unless the more expensive car is something you really gotta have. Of course, they probably offered deep discounts on the R-body pretty quickly.

It would be interesting to compare standard features of each compared to price. The slant six in the Chrysler and the 231 V6 were overwhelmed in either case. A woman I worked with while I was in college had an 81 Newport, two tone green, the colors separated at the top body line by a contrasting (vinyl) pinstripe. It was a handsome car and had the 318. Her only complaint was the 318 liked to stall when cold and sometimes ran rough when warm. A friend’s dad rented an 83 Delta Royale when his Riviera was being repaired from a crash. The Riviera ended up being totaled, not his dad’s fault. They lived on a street that was fairly steep. Though very quiet and comfortable the Delta could hardly do 30 uphill when even their 76 Volare with the slant 6 would do close to 40.

andre1969 · July 2020

More dumb R-body trivia...in '79, while the slant six Newport started at $6405, the 318-2bbl started at $6720, which seems like a fairly steep premium to me. For 1980, the gap was closed...$7247 for the slant six, $7343 for the 318. In '81, it was $7805 and $7869, respectively.

In 1979, the slant six was a 225-2bbl, with 110 hp, while the 318-2bbl had 135 hp. California models came standard with a 318-4bbl with 155 hp. I wonder if issues like that hurt Mopar's sales, as it gave buyers fewer choices? Although, I guess you could say the same for everyone. For example, the '79 LeSabre in California only offered the 231 V6, the 231 turbo (in the Sport Coupe model), and an Olds 350-4bbl. The Delta 88 only offered the 231 and Olds 350 as well. The LeSabre and Delta relied on Pontiac's 301 to fill the need for engines in the ~300 CID range, and it was banned in CA.

For 1980, the slant six was only offered as a 1-bbl, and cut to 90 hp! The 318-2bbl was cut to 120, which sounds horrible itself, but at least it still had some torque to keep it from performing as bad as that sounds. While the 110 hp 2-bbl slant six was hardly a rocket, I can't imagine how bad the 1-bbl was in a car this size! I've seen quotes of around 17-18 seconds in something like a Diplomat or Mirada with the slant six 1-bbl, , so with the heavier R-body, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 20 seconds!

For 1981, the slant six was cut a bit more, to 85 hp, while the 318-2bbl went up slightly to 130 hp. It's interesting that over the three years, that while the 318 became a bigger and bigger advantage over the slant six, the price penalty became smaller.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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