Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy · July 2020

I don't think I have every really figured out total cost. definitely not with gas, etc. But I know that my best one was probably my TL. Paid $2,000 for it. 5 years later (30,000 miles) sold it for $2,600. Not much maintenance into it. Tires, struts, battery, alternator and some coil packs was about it. Maybe cost me $1000 for 5 years (outside of gas/insurance/etc.).

My 2005 Accord was pretty cheap too. Bought new for about $20,500, sold 8 years later for something like $12K, with a set of tires and rear brakes and a battery about it.

corvette · July 2020

Other than the TDI buyback, the cheapest was probably the Mustang. Bought and sold a year later for about $500 less, spent $1,000 or so on tires and $500 or so on replacing a seatbelt with pretensioner.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

stickguy said:
I don't think I have every really figured out total cost. definitely not with gas, etc. But I know that my best one was probably my TL. Paid $2,000 for it. 5 years later (30,000 miles) sold it for $2,600. Not much maintenance into it. Tires, struts, battery, alternator and some coil packs was about it. Maybe cost me $1000 for 5 years (outside of gas/insurance/etc.).

My 2005 Accord was pretty cheap too. Bought new for about $20,500, sold 8 years later for something like $12K, with a set of tires and rear brakes and a battery about it.

I think any old hooptie can be a winner for annual costs. No depreciation to speak of and a lot of repairs can be ignored or done on the cheap with used parts. My old cargo van for example has a yearly cost of about $250.

graphicguy · July 2020

breld said:
The upcoming 2021 GTI is evolutionary - some tighter lines and revised lights. Nicely updated interior. But sounds like the powertrain is largely unchanged.

And we were an early adopter when the last new GTI came out for 2015 - there were plenty of first year annoyances with that.

So that’s all to say, if you can get a current model at a nice discount, no one would argue with that value.

Again, just relaying my son’s GTI experience, he’s of the mind that he won’t get another one of the new models. Not sure where he heard any of this, but he says the new versions will be “decontented” with fewer features and cheaper materials. He follows the GTI news pretty closely, too.

He’s not in the market, but he’s interested in the Civic Si or maybe.the Accord Sport 2.0T. He even mentioned that he’d like to look at the Acura ILX. So, he’s jumping into the Honda/Acura fold, or so it appears.

stickguy · July 2020

I found the ILX to be a big downgrade from the TLX. Same drivetrain, maybe even quicker since ways less, but ride , handling, noise were worse.

ronsteve · July 2020

corvette said:
Other than the TDI buyback, the cheapest was probably the Mustang. Bought and sold a year later for about $500 less, spent $1,000 or so on tires and $500 or so on replacing a seatbelt with pretensioner.

My ex and I had a del Sol for about a year and a half. Was a 1993 model bought in 2001 for $5000, with a fresh timing belt and clutch. Sixteen months (and maybe 16K miles) later it met its demise when a lumber truck driver didn't check his mirrors before changing lanes. Too short of an ownership experience, so it only mattered so much that insurance paid us more than we paid for it. Didn't end up putting more than regular maintenance into it.

Woefully impractical but the most fun car I've ever owned.

28firefighter · July 2020

Those Del Sols were not especially safe. My cousins had one when I was younger and a delivery truck literally backed up inadvertently and drove over the top of the car. They had to be extricated.

ab348 · July 2020

Changes afoot at Mercedes-Benz as they look to rationalize their model lineup:

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1123225_at-least-7-models-reportedly-face-the-ax-at-mercedes-benz

andres3 · July 2020

stickguy said:
I found the ILX to be a big downgrade from the TLX. Same drivetrain, maybe even quicker since ways less, but ride , handling, noise were worse.

I found the same differences between the Accord and Civic "back in the day", it was easy to tell which was cheaper, not just smaller in the first part of this Century.

In brief test drives, I found the same issue with the C-Class vs. A-Class at Mercedes.

benjaminh · July 2020

2011 Mercedes 2-door E-class for 10.5k. Clean carfax. 115k miles. A lot of car for the money?

https://www.acuraatoxmoor.com/used-Louisville-2011-Mercedes+Benz-E+Class-E+350+Base-WDDKJ5GB9BF094542

stickguy · July 2020

I like that MB. But not the miles, which explain the price.

28firefighter · July 2020

Ah - an older german car with over 100k miles. Did someone page me?

corvette · July 2020

28firefighter said:
Ah - an older german car with over 100k miles. Did someone page me?

It’s ready and waiting to break your wallet and your heart.

andres3 · July 2020

corvette said:

28firefighter said:
Ah - an older german car with over 100k miles. Did someone page me?
It’s ready and waiting to break your wallet and your heart.

Just measure success with smiles per gallon, rather than dollars per mile.

Sandman6472 · July 2020

I do like the ILX but really am wanting another hatch next time to be honest and it needs to be under 175" due to garage restraints. Looking like I might need to consider a GTI next go round as not much fits my parameters. The Encore GX is 172" so that'll fit and might be the one as I'd like a different brand next time. As much as I like a sun/moon roof, the only real requirement is a good audio system, something like a Bose with a subwoofer and a number of speakers. My Fender system in the Golf is not bad actually and have enjoyed it. The Mazda CX-30 is also another good contender.
With so many manufacturers going to CUV's and SUV's, doesn't leave much for folks like me that want a smallish vehicle. And just not sure I want to do another German vehicle again as I've had some issues that I feel should not have happened with the lowish mileage I've got. Luckily, that oil leak was finally fixed but knowing that both front axle boots are torn and need replacement is making me think of just trading it before and put that money towards something brand new. Even though my mileage/year has changed drastically, I might just test drive both the Buick & the Mazda and see which one "works". Hopefully they both have the 0% financing and 3 months first payment deferral still in effect. Think I should just get onto Truecar.com and get this ball rolling. No one says I have to purchase now but at least I'll have an idea about costs and which one will work. Just like the Golf, I'll know within a few minutes behind the wheel if it's a vehicle I can live with for the next five to eight years. And it might just show me that I should just keep the Golf and fix the axle boots and be done with it all. But, do I want to drive it another two to four years??? That's the million dollar question here!!!

tifighter · July 2020

This reminds me that I had an E Cabrio less than 2 years ago. I sort of forgot about that.

sda · July 2020

Sandman6472 said:
I do like the ILX but really am wanting another hatch next time to be honest and it needs to be under 175" due to garage restraints. Looking like I might need to consider a GTI next go round as not much fits my parameters. The Encore GX is 172" so that'll fit and might be the one as I'd like a different brand next time. As much as I like a sun/moon roof, the only real requirement is a good audio system, something like a Bose with a subwoofer and a number of speakers. My Fender system in the Golf is not bad actually and have enjoyed it. The Mazda CX-30 is also another good contender.
With so many manufacturers going to CUV's and SUV's, doesn't leave much for folks like me that want a smallish vehicle. And just not sure I want to do another German vehicle again as I've had some issues that I feel should not have happened with the lowish mileage I've got. Luckily, that oil leak was finally fixed but knowing that both front axle boots are torn and need replacement is making me think of just trading it before and put that money towards something brand new. Even though my mileage/year has changed drastically, I might just test drive both the Buick & the Mazda and see which one "works". Hopefully they both have the 0% financing and 3 months first payment deferral still in effect. Think I should just get onto Truecar.com and get this ball rolling. No one says I have to purchase now but at least I'll have an idea about costs and which one will work. Just like the Golf, I'll know within a few minutes behind the wheel if it's a vehicle I can live with for the next five to eight years. And it might just show me that I should just keep the Golf and fix the axle boots and be done with it all. But, do I want to drive it another two to four years??? That's the million dollar question here!!!

Take it for a second opinion about the axle boots. They could be pulling your tail.

fintail · July 2020

Not surprised by some of that - new C, E, and S coupes are somewhat uncommon sights, and the cabrios even more so. They seemed to have their day in the sun about 10 years ago - now everyone wants a potato fastback CUV. The replacement line should reduce redundancy a little - a German maker cutting back on niches, what is the world coming to?

I also read the CLS was on the chopping block - at least for the dumbed down US market. That one is a little harder to swallow, as the CLS was something of a milestone design for the modern era IMO, and I see at least a few of them here and there.

Luxury trim (hood star, traditional grille) is also being cut for US spec E-class with the MY 2021 facelift.

ab348 said:
Changes afoot at Mercedes-Benz as they look to rationalize their model lineup:

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1123225_at-least-7-models-reportedly-face-the-ax-at-mercedes-benz

fintail · July 2020

Lots of style for the money, and not even really "base", that car has P2 which gave xenons, keyless go, etc, and wood wheel, maybe some other options too. Not known to be a very troublesome car, but a low mileage minter probably won't be insanely expensive itself. IIRC, for MY 2012 it received some ICE and engine updates.

benjaminh said:
2011 Mercedes 2-door E-class for 10.5k. Clean carfax. 115k miles. A lot of car for the money?

ab348 · July 2020

Sandman6472 said:
I do like the ILX but really am wanting another hatch next time to be honest and it needs to be under 175" due to garage restraints. Looking like I might need to consider a GTI next go round as not much fits my parameters.

Don’t forget about the Corolla hatch, Sandy. I might pester a car salesperson for a test drive one of these days.

Michaell · July 2020

Speaking of used MB's, a member needs advice:

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/62310/mercedes-benz/gle-class/2017-gle-350-4matic-options-at-lease-expiy#latest

stickguy · July 2020

Sandy, if it is something you can do by you (oh heck, it is Florida, I assume you can do anything you feel like) drive the couple of contenders. That should give you the answer of what you want to drive. If it is one of the new ones, then just go get one and be happy!

Like you said, not too many choices that hit your parameters. The Kona and Seltos do too probably. But maybe not luxurious for you? I do like the Mazda interior.

stickguy · July 2020

speaking of older MBs, the Car Wizard just put up a video about the 2004ish SL500 he just bought for Mrs. Wizard. $5,500, with 130K on the clock. Overall, pretty solid shape. Needs various wear items (tires, brakes, ball joints, motor and trans mounts). He estimated that paying a shop, looking at $4-5K probably to get it all fixed up. Of course cheaper when you do the work yourself.

Not a bad looking car either.

benjaminh · July 2020

The Mazda 3 looks good inside and out, but one drawback is that this generation has a torsion beam rear suspension.

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/12/why-the-h-ll-does-the-2020-mazda3-have-a-torsion-beam-rear-suspension-.html

"Compared to multi-link suspensions, torsion beams are often mechanically simpler, can be lighter and are typically easier to package. That last point, in particular, can pay some important dividends, particularly in the area cargo space. Torsion beams usually sit lower in a vehicle, something that often allows for more trunk room.

And this is also the case with the 2020 Mazda3. Beppu noted the new cargo hold is deeper and more accessible than before. He also said suitcases are easier to fit in there because of the space’s revised shape.

Obviously, the humble torsion beam has its share of important benefits, but it’s still surprising that Mazda engineers opted to go with a suspension arrangement that doesn’t provide the best-possible dynamics. “So, if you were… driving around a circuit, [at a] track day or whatever, and you’re going around a high-G corner, of course, multi-link, in that particular instance, will have its advantage,” said Beppu. “But, if you think about real daily driving, the vast majority of cases there’s no difference between the two in this area.”

I sometimes take the banked cloverleaf curves in my car, for instance, with a bit of speed, and so I do think there are real world advantages for some people in having an all-independent suspension. Even winding country roads, I assume, would benefit, not to mention roads that are bumpy. After building up a performance reputation for something like 20 years, I was surprised that Mazda did that, and imho it was a mistake.

suydam · July 2020

ab348 said:

Sandman6472 said:
I do like the ILX but really am wanting another hatch next time to be honest and it needs to be under 175" due to garage restraints. Looking like I might need to consider a GTI next go round as not much fits my parameters.
Don’t forget about the Corolla hatch, Sandy. I might pester a car salesperson for a test drive one of these days.

The Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla and Mazda 3 are all pretty low slung. They work for me (the Volt is low too) but if I had back problems I would be switching to a higher seating vehicle like the Encore. Plenty of small subcompact SUVs to choose from these days!

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

ab348 said:
Changes afoot at Mercedes-Benz as they look to rationalize their model lineup:

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1123225_at-least-7-models-reportedly-face-the-ax-at-mercedes-benz

Good. The less alphabet soup the better. With all the coupes and convertibles being axed I guess there will officially be no more fun with MB.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

benjaminh said:
2011 Mercedes 2-door E-class for 10.5k. Clean carfax. 115k miles. A lot of car for the money?

https://www.acuraatoxmoor.com/used-Louisville-2011-Mercedes+Benz-E+Class-E+350+Base-WDDKJ5GB9BF094542

Make sure to get an extended warranty.

stickguy · July 2020

on the 3, very simple as noted. 99% of the buyers probably would never know (or care) about the rear suspension. But will appreciate having a bigger trunk. Plus, even with the simpler design, they still make the car handle and ride well (and handle better than the competition for the most part).

sometimes, the reason to keep something is the optics (to say you have it). And there are some die hards that will complain loudly about change (like when Honda went away from double wishbones),

explorerx4 · July 2020

K-Cars had beam rear axles. I guess they were underrated handlers.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

This guy needed the better handling. No beams for him.

https://youtu.be/AL85RiXmcZM

tjc78 · July 2020

Hyundai with the 2017 redesign of the Elantra went to drum brakes in the rear for many of the trim levels.

I thought it was kind of lame since our base model 08 Elantra had discs in the rear.

Once I drove it, I realized it didn’t matter. Car stopped fine and it was one of the only cars I didn’t warp the rotors on.

benjaminh · July 2020

I did feel like my 2002 Accord, which was the last generation of Accord to have a double wishbone front suspension, handled a little bit better than our 2008, 2013, and 2016 Accords.

But most reviews that I've looked at say the Mazda 3 has good handling.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

tjc78 said:
Hyundai with the 2017 redesign of the Elantra went to drum brakes in the rear for many of the trim levels.

I thought it was kind of lame since our base model 08 Elantra had discs in the rear.

Once I drove it, I realized it didn’t matter. Car stopped fine and it was one of the only cars I didn’t warp the rotors on.

I didn’t realize that. Kind of a cheap trick as most people would assume all cars have disc all around these days. Heck, even my throw away Kia has them. But you’re right, most people wouldn’t notice.

explorerx4 · July 2020

Our 04 Escape, rear drums, never needed new shoeing in the over 12 years/just under 150K we had it.

qbrozen · July 2020

I could never understand how drums are cheaper. They are so much more complex and parts-intensive.

roadburner · July 2020

sda said:

Sandman6472 said:
I do like the ILX but really am wanting another hatch next time to be honest and it needs to be under 175" due to garage restraints. Looking like I might need to consider a GTI next go round as not much fits my parameters. The Encore GX is 172" so that'll fit and might be the one as I'd like a different brand next time. As much as I like a sun/moon roof, the only real requirement is a good audio system, something like a Bose with a subwoofer and a number of speakers. My Fender system in the Golf is not bad actually and have enjoyed it. The Mazda CX-30 is also another good contender.
With so many manufacturers going to CUV's and SUV's, doesn't leave much for folks like me that want a smallish vehicle. And just not sure I want to do another German vehicle again as I've had some issues that I feel should not have happened with the lowish mileage I've got. Luckily, that oil leak was finally fixed but knowing that both front axle boots are torn and need replacement is making me think of just trading it before and put that money towards something brand new. Even though my mileage/year has changed drastically, I might just test drive both the Buick & the Mazda and see which one "works". Hopefully they both have the 0% financing and 3 months first payment deferral still in effect. Think I should just get onto Truecar.com and get this ball rolling. No one says I have to purchase now but at least I'll have an idea about costs and which one will work. Just like the Golf, I'll know within a few minutes behind the wheel if it's a vehicle I can live with for the next five to eight years. And it might just show me that I should just keep the Golf and fix the axle boots and be done with it all. But, do I want to drive it another two to four years??? That's the million dollar question here!!!
Take it for a second opinion about the axle boots. They could be pulling your tail.

I agree; out of all the German vehicles I have owned I’ve only replaced the CV axle boots on one car- my Ford Scorpio- and I wish that was the only issue it suffered from.

roadburner · July 2020

Out of curiosity I emailed Dinan support and asked when/if a flash tune would be available for the B46 motor in the G20 330i. I received a prompt response and was advised that they just obtained a car for evaluation.
Now, I know that the proof is in the actual test times, but I crunched some numbers and calculated power to weight and torque to weight ratios of a stock RWD 330i, a stock M340i xDrive, and a stock RWD M235i. Surprisingly, the G20 3 Series is only 158 pounds heavier than my 2 Series, so a 50 lb-ft bump in torque on the 330i would give it an identical torque to weight ratio to the M235i. Based on other Dinan B46/B48 tunes a 50 lb-ft increase is probably easily accomplished with a 93 octane flash tune. If I could cut the 0-60 and the quarter mile ET by at least 0.5 seconds I’d be happy, and a tune might just manage that. Another positive is that the flash tune will be relatively inexpensive(likely less than $800 installed) and there are no warranty issues.
Would I like an M2C or M340i? You bet- but to take that route I’m looking at another $12k at a minimum. So I think I’m going to drive the 330i and see how I like it- and possibly the Indigo Edition Stinger.

Michaell · July 2020

One for @fintail:

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/62310/mercedes-benz/gle-class/2017-gle-350-4matic-options-at-lease-expiy#latest

pensfan83 · July 2020

roadburner said:
Out of curiosity I emailed Dinan support and asked when/if a flash tune would be available for the B46 motor in the G20 330i. I received a prompt response and was advised that they just obtained a car for evaluation.
Now, I know that the proof is in the actual test times, but I crunched some numbers and calculated power to weight and torque to weight ratios of a stock RWD 330i, a stock M340i xDrive, and a stock RWD M235i. Surprisingly, the G20 3 Series is only 158 pounds heavier than my 2 Series, so a 50 lb-ft bump in torque on the 330i would give it an identical torque to weight ratio to the M235i. Based on other Dinan B46/B48 tunes a 50 lb-ft increase is probably easily accomplished with a 93 octane flash tune. If I could cut the 0-60 and the quarter mile ET by at least 0.5 seconds I’d be happy, and a tune might just manage that. Another positive is that the flash tune will be relatively inexpensive(likely less than $800 installed) and there are no warranty issues.
Would I like an M2C or M340i? You bet- but to take that route I’m looking at another $12k at a minimum. So I think I’m going to drive the 330i and see how I like it- and possibly the Indigo Edition Stinger.

Speed aside, would you be happy with the driving dynamics of the 3 vs. your 2 series?

28firefighter · July 2020

And one step further - would you be happy with the sounds/feeling of the B46 vs. the N55?

graphicguy · July 2020

stickguy said:
speaking of older MBs, the Car Wizard just put up a video about the 2004ish SL500 he just bought for Mrs. Wizard. $5,500, with 130K on the clock. Overall, pretty solid shape. Needs various wear items (tires, brakes, ball joints, motor and trans mounts). He estimated that paying a shop, looking at $4-5K probably to get it all fixed up. Of course cheaper when you do the work yourself.

Not a bad looking car either.

I just watched that last night. It is a pretty nice car for its age. But, as he said, if you can’t do the work yourself, it’s not going to be a good experience. But, I think he said brakes, tires, tie rod ends, a driver’s seat leather repair, were the biggest jobs on it. The rest works fine.

stickguy · July 2020

That and a couple strut ball joints or some such.

Would have been a great wheeler dealers car.

stickguy · July 2020

Oh, motor mounts and trans mounts also shot.

roadburner · July 2020

pensfan83 said:

roadburner said:
Out of curiosity I emailed Dinan support and asked when/if a flash tune would be available for the B46 motor in the G20 330i. I received a prompt response and was advised that they just obtained a car for evaluation.
Now, I know that the proof is in the actual test times, but I crunched some numbers and calculated power to weight and torque to weight ratios of a stock RWD 330i, a stock M340i xDrive, and a stock RWD M235i. Surprisingly, the G20 3 Series is only 158 pounds heavier than my 2 Series, so a 50 lb-ft bump in torque on the 330i would give it an identical torque to weight ratio to the M235i. Based on other Dinan B46/B48 tunes a 50 lb-ft increase is probably easily accomplished with a 93 octane flash tune. If I could cut the 0-60 and the quarter mile ET by at least 0.5 seconds I’d be happy, and a tune might just manage that. Another positive is that the flash tune will be relatively inexpensive(likely less than $800 installed) and there are no warranty issues.
Would I like an M2C or M340i? You bet- but to take that route I’m looking at another $12k at a minimum. So I think I’m going to drive the 330i and see how I like it- and possibly the Indigo Edition Stinger.
Speed aside, would you be happy with the driving dynamics of the 3 vs. your 2 series?

I think so; I had a 330i xDrive M Sport loaner and the M Sport suspension was pretty good. The car I’m looking at has the Adaptive M suspension which has received glowing reviews in the U.S. and British car magazines. Plus, it has a true limited slip diff.

roadburner · July 2020

28firefighter said:
And one step further - would you be happy with the sounds/feeling of the B46 vs. the N55?

The B46 is a bit more civilized than the N20 in my wife’s X1; you know the B46 isn’t an inline six but it’s not grating.

28firefighter · July 2020

As long as it isn't like the B48, which sounded like a tractor in my wife's X1...

qbrozen · July 2020

Few notes ...

R&T don't seem to be fans of the new hot-rod Mini. Only 5.1s to 60, so probably fell of @roadburner 's list anyway.

Speaking of RB, a couple of listings came up you may keep an eye on. I posted some concerns and queries on one of them in the chat.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9lZE2PZM/2007-ford-mustang-gt-coupe

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/35vZlkmR/2007-aston-martin-v8-vantage

And one for the rest of us...
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/98nadV7Y/2006-mazdaspeed6

stickguy · July 2020

Love the Mazda. Would not mind having that. And quite the odd interior treatment on the AM

Michaell · July 2020

@stickguy - speaking of Wheeler Dealers, I just found a variant on the Motor Trend channel. "Wheeler Dealers: Dream Cars".

Set in the UK, Mike connects with an enthusiast who has wanted a particular car for a long time. Mike takes his current vehicle and whatever cash the person has managed to save, and starts trading up to fund the dream car. His new mechanic is Elvis (former F1 mechanic), and the show has taken some pretty interesting twists in order to get the cash together.

Mike has bought and flipped a couple of trailers, and a handful of small motorbikes, to add to the kitty.

When he buys the dream car and shows it to the new owner, it's pretty cool to watch.

Anyway, might be worth checking out.

ab348 · July 2020

I dropped my MTTV sub and don't really miss it much. We still get Velocity here and they showed the first 2 or 3 episodes of Dream Cars but then dropped it (I assume they made more than just those) in favor of Salvage Hunters: Classic Cars which I think is a superior show.

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