Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fortee9er · July 2020

xwesx said:
The most incredible thing today.... I spied the 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan I owned a decade ago! I was so stunned.... it had 215,000 miles on it when I sold it (at the time we purchased our 2010 Forester).

I was able to meet the current owner and hear it start up. 238,000 on the ticker now (only 24,000 in a decade!), and the engine still runs smooth as glass. Not too bad for such a machine.

Which engine and transmission combo did your Dodge Caravan had?

qbrozen · July 2020

andres3 said:

qbrozen said:

xwesx said:
I find that there's no maintenance more satisfying than new shocks. Even on the Q7 this year, the improvement was markedly noticeable.
new shocks on my Charger made other things break. LOL. I don't have time to mess with it right now, but the newfound stiffness must have done in some bushings somewhere.
Well...that's one explanation for why Chrysler's are in the shop quarterly.

If quarterly means every 12 years, then probably. Bushings can’t last forever.

tjc78 · July 2020

Exactly.. rubber is rubber no matter what manufacturer.

isellhondas · July 2020

xwesx said:
Here is the van in June of 2010, just before I sold it:

Looked a lot better back then. Of course, life in Fairbanks is very hard on a car. I think a windshield has a life span of maybe three weeks?

fintail · July 2020

Had the fintail out for some cleaning today - drove for about 10 minutes, then no turn signals again. However, I remembered what I was told about the problem, and now that the rubber cover can be moved - I opened it up and fixed it myself, drove for maybe 45 minutes and it worked fine. A screw holding in a wire was loose. Not bad. Quirks - one side blinks faster than the other - but all lights are operational. Fuel tank also reads full all the time now, even with the key off, I don't remember it doing that before. Oh the fun of a nearly 60 year old unrestored car.

xwesx · July 2020

fortee9er said:
Which engine and transmission combo did your Dodge Caravan had?

Now you're taxing my memory! I want to say it has a 3.8L V6 (if that's not right, then whichever is the correct, highest-volume version), transmission is a four-speed, but I don't recall the exact model.

xwesx · July 2020

isellhondas said:
Looked a lot better back then. Of course, life in Fairbanks is very hard on a car. I think a windshield has a life span of maybe three weeks?

Haha; so true! Don't jinx me, though. We put a new windshield on my wife's Forester on June 1, and it is still perfect... hopefully it will take until September or October before she gets the first crack.

The screen on that van is definitely still the same one I sold it with - maybe a little worse for wear, but looked about the same to me. I never replaced it while I owned it, even though it has three large cracks across the lower end of the glass when I bought it. But, the glass was (in 2007) some thing like $450 to replace (over 10% of the purchase price), and the cracks weren't in my field of vision.

I also strongly suspect that he wash and wax I gave it before selling was most likely the last it ever received. LOL

stickguy · July 2020

xwesx said:

fortee9er said:
Which engine and transmission combo did your Dodge Caravan had?
Now you're taxing my memory! I want to say it has a 3.8L V6 (if that's not right, then whichever is the correct, highest-volume version), transmission is a four-speed, but I don't recall the exact model.

Probably the 3.3l V6

tjc78 · July 2020

Yeah, the 3,3 most likely. The 3.8 was only in higher line models and the Town and Country

The T&C we had at work was the 3.8. Amazingly as hard as that van was driven it never puked that tranny. We really abused that thing, several times I had it so loaded the tires hit the wheel wells. I think it was a 96.

fintail · July 2020

I know I have mentioned it, the transmission puked on my dad's T&C (97? I was at school when he got it) a mere 2 or 3 months in. To its credit though, it was fixed properly - never had the issue again, and was relatively trouble free through the time it was sold 10 years later.

xwesx · July 2020

tjc78 said:
Yeah, the 3,3 most likely. The 3.8 was only in higher line models and the Town and Country

The T&C we had at work was the 3.8. Amazingly as hard as that van was driven it never puked that tranny. We really abused that thing, several times I had it so loaded the tires hit the wheel wells. I think it was a 96.

Doesn't sound right. Wasn't the 3.3L the Mitsubishi engine? It didn't have that one, for sure.

Edit: I just looked up the Mitsu engine: 3.0L. Yeah, it probably was 3.3L then.

tjc78 · July 2020

Yeah the 3.0 had the infamous valve seal problem. Most vans with that engine had nice clouds of blue smoke. Spirts, Acclaims and Shadows of the era as well

explorerx4 · July 2020

@tjc78,
Lebaron's too, my mom had one.

tjc78 · July 2020

Yeah I guess some Dynasty’s and New Yorkers too.

andres3 · July 2020

tjc78 said:
Exactly.. rubber is rubber no matter what manufacturer.

Uhhh... not exactly...
Exhibit 1: A Michelin Green X Low Rolling Resistance Tire
Exhibit 2: A Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Tire

Both rubber, but you'll find the driving characteristics quite different.

Besides, I was referencing the idea that "new shocks on my Charger made other things break. LOL."

I was thinking NEW "INSERT NEW ANYTHING HERE" on my Chrysler made other things break.

That would explain why when you replace the AC compressor, the head gaskets break, and when you replace the head gaskets, then the transmission breaks.

qbrozen · July 2020

andres3 said:

tjc78 said:
Exactly.. rubber is rubber no matter what manufacturer.
Uhhh... not exactly...
Exhibit 1: A Michelin Green X Low Rolling Resistance Tire
Exhibit 2: A Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Tire

Both rubber, but you'll find the driving characteristics quite different.

Besides, I was referencing the idea that "new shocks on my Charger made other things break. LOL."

I was thinking NEW "INSERT NEW ANYTHING HERE" on my Chrysler made other things break.

That would explain why when you replace the AC compressor, the head gaskets break, and when you replace the head gaskets, then the transmission breaks.

Yes, we know exactly what you meant. You meant to try to take a situation that applies to every old car on the road and use it in your vendetta against a single manufacturer. But it was a bad joke that didn’t make sense and flopped with the audience. Oh well.

explorerx4 · July 2020

Below is a link regarding automobile tire materials.
https://itstillruns.com/chemical-properties-tires-8176244.html

andres3 · July 2020

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

tjc78 said:
Exactly.. rubber is rubber no matter what manufacturer.
Uhhh... not exactly...
Exhibit 1: A Michelin Green X Low Rolling Resistance Tire
Exhibit 2: A Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Tire

Both rubber, but you'll find the driving characteristics quite different.

Besides, I was referencing the idea that "new shocks on my Charger made other things break. LOL."

I was thinking NEW "INSERT NEW ANYTHING HERE" on my Chrysler made other things break.

That would explain why when you replace the AC compressor, the head gaskets break, and when you replace the head gaskets, then the transmission breaks.
Yes, we know exactly what you meant. You meant to try to take a situation that applies to every old car on the road and use it in your vendetta against a single manufacturer. But it was a bad joke that didn’t make sense and flopped with the audience. Oh well.

Define "old car." When I was young, I used to think 10 years old was "old."

xwesx · July 2020

qbrozen said:
Yes, we know exactly what you meant. You meant to try to take a situation that applies to every old car on the road and use it in your vendetta against a single manufacturer. But it was a bad joke that didn’t make sense and flopped with the audience. Oh well.

Hey, sometimes a car experience is so bad that it leaves trauma for a long, long time.

xwesx · July 2020

andres3 said:
Define "old car." When I was young, I used to think 10 years old was "old."

That's funny! When I was young, I used to think of my family's cars as "pretty new," even though most were either over or nearing ten years of age. However, all those contemporary cars everyone else was driving? Those were old....

qbrozen · July 2020

andres3 said:

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

tjc78 said:
Exactly.. rubber is rubber no matter what manufacturer.
Uhhh... not exactly...
Exhibit 1: A Michelin Green X Low Rolling Resistance Tire
Exhibit 2: A Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Tire

Both rubber, but you'll find the driving characteristics quite different.

Besides, I was referencing the idea that "new shocks on my Charger made other things break. LOL."

I was thinking NEW "INSERT NEW ANYTHING HERE" on my Chrysler made other things break.

That would explain why when you replace the AC compressor, the head gaskets break, and when you replace the head gaskets, then the transmission breaks.
Yes, we know exactly what you meant. You meant to try to take a situation that applies to every old car on the road and use it in your vendetta against a single manufacturer. But it was a bad joke that didn’t make sense and flopped with the audience. Oh well.
Define "old car." When I was young, I used to think 10 years old was "old."

The Charger is 14. Not bad overall, but anything rubber is well past its expiration date.

qbrozen · July 2020

xwesx said:

qbrozen said:
Yes, we know exactly what you meant. You meant to try to take a situation that applies to every old car on the road and use it in your vendetta against a single manufacturer. But it was a bad joke that didn’t make sense and flopped with the audience. Oh well.
Hey, sometimes a car experience is so bad that it leaves trauma for a long, long time.

For some reason, I can never totally write off any manufacturer. I guess maybe I've never had such an awful experience to justify it. Or I just understand that stuff happens and you can get a bad car from ANY manufacturer at ANY time. Of course, my 2 GMs weren't exactly stellar, but I didn't have either one for very long, so I don't think they ever got a fair shot. I doubt I'd ever get another Honda, but that's for reasons other than outright reliability.

tjc78 · July 2020

I know I’ve told it before but I had a train wreck 98 Olds 88 that I bought brand new. They could never fix the water leaks and then I started having bizarre interior electrical issues because of all the water.

I swore off GM for a long time. Fast forward to 2012. I liked the LaCrosse and figured that GM was certainly not making the same cars and gave them a shot. The LaCrosse did puke it’s crankshaft seal within the first 5000 miles but was otherwise trouble free. The 2015 Enclave and now 2017 Enclave both have not needed a repair other than warped rotors. The rotors are more my heavy foot than fault of the car IMO.

andres3 · July 2020

qbrozen said:

xwesx said:

qbrozen said:
Yes, we know exactly what you meant. You meant to try to take a situation that applies to every old car on the road and use it in your vendetta against a single manufacturer. But it was a bad joke that didn’t make sense and flopped with the audience. Oh well.
Hey, sometimes a car experience is so bad that it leaves trauma for a long, long time.
For some reason, I can never totally write off any manufacturer. I guess maybe I've never had such an awful experience to justify it. Or I just understand that stuff happens and you can get a bad car from ANY manufacturer at ANY time. Of course, my 2 GMs weren't exactly stellar, but I didn't have either one for very long, so I don't think they ever got a fair shot. I doubt I'd ever get another Honda, but that's for reasons other than outright reliability.

Only a person that's never had a truly bad car could ever say "you can get a bad car from any manufacturer at any time."

Of course, again, the relative and subjective definition of bad comes up. Really bad, super bad, ultra bad, ridiculously bad, and ludicrously bad could mean different things when it comes to cars depending on who you ask. It's not really an isolated incident when you see the same kinds of defects on every like-model out there that you look at. Then read reviews about how others had to replace the exact same things at similar low miles. There begins to be a consistency to the "badness" about particular models from particular manufacturers.

qbrozen · July 2020

Only a person that's never had a truly bad car could ever say "you can get a bad car from any manufacturer at any time."

But that is a completely true statement. Even Lexus has had to buy back some lemons. Nobody is immune to defects.

Are some worse than others? Of course. Land Rover warranties wouldn’t cost $5k if they didn’t justify it.

andres3 · July 2020

qbrozen said:
Only a person that's never had a truly bad car could ever say "you can get a bad car from any manufacturer at any time."

But that is a completely true statement. Even Lexus has had to buy back some lemons. Nobody is immune to defects.

Are some worse than others? Of course. Land Rover warranties wouldn’t cost $5k if they didn’t justify it.

Sure, defects happen, but the quality (or lack thereof) in some models is apparent from top to bottom, whereas a "lemon" Lexus will have very specific defects, even if there are 3 or 4 of them. Some cars have a much higher lemon juice % content than other lemons

texases · July 2020

If I got burned by a very troublesome car, I wouldn't be back. Plenty of other options out there.

andres3 · July 2020

IMHO the few that actually ran without constant failures were the actual true "defects" out of the production bunch. It's that sinister planned obsolescence engineering I have a problem with.

fintail · July 2020

I am kind of the same way. In say 1990, most 80s cars weren't "old" to me, and of course the mid 80s family cars were just as good as new cars.

Today maybe not changed much, as a 2010 car isn't "old", at least not outside. Some of the tech can feel kind of quaint though, key ignition and no bluetooth, is this a fintail?

xwesx said:

That's funny! When I was young, I used to think of my family's cars as "pretty new," even though most were either over or nearing ten years of age. However, all those contemporary cars everyone else was driving? Those were old....

gsemike · July 2020

texases said:
If I got burned by a very troublesome car, I wouldn't be back. Plenty of other options out there.

I was raised on GM and just accepted some of the quality and reliability issues as routine. I had an 89 Camaro that I loved when I got it, but by 5 years and 50k miles, it was so troublesome that I was done. I ditched it for an 89 Accord with 50k on it when I got it. That was so much of a better made car that it was a revelation to me. The Accord served me better from 50k to 90k than the Camaro did from 20k to 50k.

It's not just whether it runs or not, but how does it feel? How do little things hold up? The Camaro the lettering wore of the stereo by the time the car was 4 years old, broken spring sticking out of the seat. I will never go back to them

tjc78 · July 2020

I don't think it's fair to compare 80s GM to the cars/SUVs GM is making today.

kyfdx · July 2020

Member needs help:

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/62208/chevrolet/x/need-help-pricing-1970-chevy-nova-sedan#latest

gsemike · July 2020

tjc78 said:
I don't think it's fair to compare 80s GM to the cars/SUVs GM is making today.

No offense to anyone but I still have a number of GM cars in the family. They've improved since the depths of the 80s, but not enough for me to go back.

tjc78 · July 2020

No offense taken. I just think that GM did a good job of fixing the error of their ways in 80s and 90s.

I really don't have a favorite brand, although I've owned more GM and Ford than anything else.

fortee9er · July 2020

Regarding GM current quality or lack there of, a few weeks ago I was loaned a very new Cadillac Escalade (LWB) for 2 days. I was excited to drive it and check out the features. First it was black my favorite car color. The car has presence with a capital P. The a/c, sound system, and comfort did not disappoint. But the cheap plastic door panels and some of the interior trim was not up to par. The ride was a little harsh for this luxury truck. For comparison I have 2 trucks in my fleet: a 1996 Ford E350 Club Wagon and a 2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson with lowering springs. Both of these trucks ride better or no worse than the Escalade.
I have owned many GM products over the years and the best one was my 1998 GMC Safari SLT. I put 150k miles on it over 15 years and was very reliable. No engine or transmission problems. However, it did have 2 a/c overhauls, the paint flaked off the body and had to have it repainted at my expense. The leather seats were absolute crap and starting coming apart early on. I did have some electrical problems with the factory installed security system. But when I sold it a few years ago at 190k miles it was running great and the a/c and the stereo were working like new.

xwesx · July 2020

Those Safaris were absolute work horses. Of all the minivans of the 90s, I see more of those still on the road than any other. Granted, most look like they are on their last breath, but they are still out there!

I think #2 goes to Chrysler, but there were a ton more of those vans at the start, too.

I don't have anything against GM in particular. They just didn't make anything that rose to the top of my list when I was shopping for a car. /shrugs

My brother seems to be nutty about them, though. He has mostly had GM (a couple of Ford early on), and he is on a bit of a tear currently: Buying both a Corvette and a GMC 3500 Duramax. You'd like his color preference, though, 49er.... BLACK. One and all. /sigh

fintail · July 2020

Out in podunk now, missed out on maybe a nice easy project. This turned up at a small local lot - 1985 735i, large history file. 55K miles. It sold before I saw it, but I don't they got a fortune for it. With this kind of material being popular these days (with nice 126s bringing strong money), this was probably worth the 6-7K I think it sold for. Excuse the pics, as the seller isn't the most precise at the whole selling online thing:

fortee9er · July 2020

I like that E23 but I am biased, I own a Euro 745i E23. I have no idea what they are going for these days. I bought mine in 2000 and still have it. I did have to get new wheels and tires because the stock Michelin TRX were insanely expensive. Then I had it repainted after someone rear ended the car. Damage was not too bad but decided to do a full respray as the clear coat was getting cloudy. Also took the opportunity to replace all the rubber seals at the same time.Great car but you need a calendar to measure the turbo lag. BTW same turbo system used on the Porsche 930.

fintail · July 2020

That's a real obscure one, and probably fun to keep on the road. IIRC 745i was not sold new in the US, but no doubt more than a couple came through as grey market cars before that door closed.

That minty one might have been a steal, 80s cars are the new thing, and that's not a lot of money these days. Also has a little movie cred - now Biff, don't con me:

explorerx4 · July 2020

C &D reprint of article about V8 swapped Volvo wagons.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33324644/tested-volvo-v-8-wagons/

omarman · July 2020

And here I am liking Biff's Courier.

fortee9er · July 2020

Biff should spend a little time detailing his Courier.

xwesx · July 2020

fortee9er said:
Biff should spend a little time detailing his Courier.

As far as rolling billboards go, that one doesn't make a very good advertisement for him, does it? Hahah

fintail · July 2020

And so it continues. Decided to get the fintail this morning to work on some detailing. Turn signals still have different speeds for each direction - but all bulbs are working. Irks my OCD sensibilities a little, but I can let it go. Fuel pump seems much louder than before - not sure it needs to be driven a bit, maybe a symptom of having the tank drained? It's running fine, just making more noise than I recall. And the most irritating - there's a faint rubbing noise coming from the back of the car, most noticeable between maybe 20-40 mph (faster, and other noise drowns it out) - makes me wonder if there's a wheel bearing issue or maybe a brake engaging. Next time I drive it I'll give it a few slams on the brakes to check for improvement, then probably back to the shop.

ab348 · July 2020

Electric fuel pump I assume? It may be on its way out if so.

fintail · July 2020

Yep, and because the car has mechanical fuel injection, the pump runs a lot - when cold, one is supposed to run it for 10-15 seconds to prime the system. I've never touched the part in the 25 years I've owned the car, so if it failed, I suppose it doesn't owe me anything. Hopefully there will be a warning rather than just conking out - or maybe this is the warning.

ab348 said:
Electric fuel pump I assume? It may be on its way out if so.

xwesx · July 2020

fintail said:
Hopefully there will be a warning rather than just conking out - or maybe this is the warning.

That's what I was going to suggest... if it is making more noise, then this is your warning. If it starts running more than normal, that may be indicative of pressure issues, which means increased resistance inside the pump so that you are not getting the same RPM out of it.

Either way, always obey the noises, as you often do not get any more warning than that!

----

Speaking of noises, I noticed on Sunday that my wife's Forester likely has a wheel bearing that is starting to fail. I hear the slightest noise from the left rear any time she takes a turn (curve) to the right at speed.

fintail · July 2020

I've driven the car maybe 15 miles since the tank was drained - I plan to drive it a little this weekend (and back to its garage tonight). If it doesn't improve, I'll see what needs to be done. Not sure how easy it will be to find this part, or what kind of diagnosis will be needed - as the car is so old and some parts are difficult, it is not a problem if I source my own parts.

Detailing the car today, it's funny how the modern car can be made spotless in maybe 90 minutes, while the old car is about a 3/4 day job. Modern paint is so much easier to work with, and the old car has so many more nooks and crannies, along with chrome.

fintail · July 2020

Drove a few miles this evening, went to the supermarket, where a guy in a XC90 was smitten with the car. The noises didn't seem so bad, maybe as I was driving with a window down, so other noise drowned it out. I'll just keep an eye/ear out, and maybe start trying to source a fuel pump, probably can't hurt to have one on hand for such an old and relatively uncommon car, just in case.

All cleaned up, back in the garage where the car sleeps - in the background left to right:bathtub Packard, 64 Pontiac convertible, 56 (I think) Chevy sedan, Series III XJ6:

xwesx · July 2020

Well, the nice thing about fuel pumps is that they are not a particularly difficult part to retrofit if OE is unavailable.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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