I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

ab348 · October 2020

I was out in the Cutlass today, and spotted something of note though not really classic - a Lincoln LS in absolutely showroom condition, looked brand new. But I was struck by how dated it seemed. Not so much the overall body style but the details, like the oversized square taillights, the chromed factory wheels, the trunk lid spoiler (factory) that looked so out of place, even the non-metallic beige paint. It was occupied by a 30-something couple, so I assume it was a grandpa car of some sort that had a very sheltered life.

explorerx4 · October 2020

Since it's a Buick, it must be what the Chinese like.

uplanderguy · October 2020

I sure liked it. Very 'domestic'. The Enclave strikes me as large for China, but I see online it is exported.

The Enclave is built in Lansing. I know, it should be an Oldsmobile!

uplanderguy · October 2020

RE.: Lincoln LS--I sure liked them at the time, although I haven't seen one in ages.

I know the 2002-on Thunderbird was based on it.

That was a good styling job IMHO, walking the fine line between 'retro' and 'contemporary'. I loved them with the two-tone interior.

I remember tight headroom with the hardtop, but it looked great with it IMHO. Just different from everything else.

kyfdx · October 2020

LS with the Sport Pack and V-8 was the one that most people wanted. Though, I think the stick-shift model only came with the 6-cylinder.

explorerx4 · October 2020

@uplanderguy,
Take a look at just about any F150. I guess Buick thought it would help their sales.

fintail · October 2020

There are some larger cars that do well in China. With a population of such size, even with insane economic stratification, there are plenty of well-connected CCP member "entrepreneurs" with money enough to buy something fancier, and somehow, slightly larger than usual but not huge cars are a thing. CUVs do well, and there are LWB versions of the middle German premium sedans and even Volvo and Infiniti tailored to that market. And with the historical fondness of Buick there (not aligned with the modern kleptocracy, oddly enough), Buick can play in it too.

Regarding names vs alpha-numerics, the auto industry appears to employ a lot of sycophants and copycats, and everyone still wants to be the Germans.

uplanderguy said:
I sure liked it. Very 'domestic'. The Enclave strikes me as large for China, but I see online it is exported.

The Enclave is built in Lansing. I know, it should be an Oldsmobile!

fintail · October 2020

Hey lemko, long time no see.

lemko1968 said:
I had a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe. It had shoulder belts but no headrests. The shoulder belts were just mounted to the roof and stowed with chrome clips. They were very uncomfortable as there were no retraction reels and I rarely used them. They stowed much better than the shoulder belts on my Dad’s 1970 Ford Torino that we’re held in place by an elastic band that attached to the garment hooks. They were loose, sloppily hung, and obstructed the front side windows. Dad simply stuffed them in the headliner trim and rarely used them as a result.

uplanderguy · October 2020

Yes, pickup trucks have long-had series names--I guess I mean passenger vehicles.

Trucks look ridiculous, IMHO, with their enormous nameplate-over-a-nameplate high on the front fenders, or doors (3500HDSILVERADOHIGHCOUNTRYDIESEL), etc. etc.

'Avenir' is a single, flowing script on the driver's door. I'm hard-pressed to think of anything else like that now.

explorerx4 · October 2020

@uplanderguy,
If you keep backtracking, you'll fall off a cliff.

uplanderguy · October 2020

It's called nuance in the original statement, LOL.

fintail · October 2020

I like alphanumerics when they mean something. Today, even the Germans apply letters and numbers that don't directly relate to what's under the hood.

andre1969 · October 2020

One of my co-workers, who previously had a 1987 and then a 1992 Mark VII, bought a new Lincoln LS with the V6 in 2000. He had a fairly long commute to work, and got both Marks up to around 170-180,000 miles. He had bought them used, in '89 and '94, respectively.

The 2000 was so bad that it almost got lemon-lawed. I don't know what the ultimate arrangement was that he made, but he got a killer deal on a 2001 LS with the V8. However, his trust in Lincoln was shot, and his trust in keeping a car high miles. He started leasing Acura TLs after that, and essentially got himself into an eternal car payment. I lost track with him years ago, but I imagine he'd be leasing TLXes by now.

uplanderguy · October 2020

Names are easier for me to remember. But no carmaker markets to people like me anymore, LOL.

tjc78 · October 2020

fintail said:
I like alphanumerics when they mean something. Today, even the Germans apply letters and numbers that don't directly relate to what's under the hood.

What is stupider than the new Volvos? T5 is base engine which is 4 cyl turbo. T6 is the upgrade adding a supercharger to the base engine.

andre1969 · October 2020

tjc78 said:

fintail said:
I like alphanumerics when they mean something. Today, even the Germans apply letters and numbers that don't directly relate to what's under the hood.
What is stupider than the new Volvos? T5 is base engine which is 4 cyl turbo. T6 is the upgrade adding a supercharger to the base engine.

Yeah, IMO that should be a "T4", and than make the upgrade "T4-S" or something like that.

fintail · October 2020

On I90 in eastern WA somewhere east of Ritzville today, saw a Subaru SVX and just a few minutes later a 240SX convertible, time warp to 1992.

fintail · October 2020

I wonder what the "T" and "5" stand for (as I drive my MB E450 with a 3 liter V6).

tjc78 said:

fintail said:
I like alphanumerics when they mean something. Today, even the Germans apply letters and numbers that don't directly relate to what's under the hood.
What is stupider than the new Volvos? T5 is base engine which is 4 cyl turbo. T6 is the upgrade adding a supercharger to the base engine.

uplanderguy · October 2020

My wife is happy with her '19 Equinox; I feel it's better-styled than other low-priced SUV's and size-wise is one of the better upfront buys out there, but as a result, I see them everywhere.

We had it in for service yesterday--oil change, tire rotation, and wife complained that when first moving, she could hear a brake squeak, until about 10 mph. I heard it the next day, but in rain it didn't do it. It was absolutely from the rears. I googled that and the first thing that came up was a GM TSB about that exact issue, and the fix was the dealer would replace, for free, the rear brake pads.

Anyway, we go to pick up the car, and I had paid for the oil change ($56 including tax for full-synthetic; not bad) on the phone. We pull in and there is a white Equinox on the end of the row. It had no plates. Next vehicle over, white Equinox, Lorain Co. plates--not ours, either. Ours was about six cars down. In probably eight cars, three were white '18-20 Equinoxes with the same wheels. Sigh.

Made me miss the '70's and even early '80's domestics, with slew of colors, optional trim, and wheel choices that nearly-guaranteed you never saw an exact duplicate of your car.

I would draw the line, however, at this 1976 Dodge Charger SE interior, seen on Facebook this morning! To be fair, when I was young, I drove a new '76 or '77 Monza 2+2 for a test drive, which was white with a similar interior but base-colors white, red, and blue.

xwesx · October 2020

I dunno... those colors would look pretty good inside a white Equinox!

stickguy · October 2020

I love it.

uplanderguy · October 2020

It is distinctive, I'll give it that.

ab348 · October 2020

Chrysler had a thing for wild Aztek patterned upholstery back then. It may have started with this and got more wild as the years went on:

http://fuselage.de/index.html?http://www.fuselage.de/chr70/cordoba.html

uplanderguy · October 2020

I had a deja vu when I opened that link--I actually remembered the 'Newport Cordoba'.

uplanderguy · October 2020

That reminds me...I should just look at the brochure, but when they introduced the "Newport Royal" as a low-priced offering in '72 or '73 I think, did the more-expensive 'regular' Newport remain? I always thought it was unusual the lower-priced offering had a subseries name tacked onto the name, opposite of what usually seemed the case back then.

andre1969 · October 2020

I had to open my old car book to jog my memory, but yeah, two versions of the Newport stuck around. Actually, it looks like they just did the old trim shuffle sleight-of-hand. Chrysler first came out with two versions of the Newport in 1967, calling them "Newport" and "Newport Custom". To make way for the Custom, they shoved the 300 upscale a bit, and took away its 4-door pillared sedan, making it hardtop/convertible-only. Oh, and standard-440.

In 1971, the Royal popped up as a cheaper trim level within the Newport, while "Newport Custom" was still listed as a separate model. For '72, they broke it out into "Newport Royal" for the cheaper version, "Newport Custom" for the nicer. In '73, it was back to Newport/Newport Custom. And in '77, they went to simply "Newport".

It's amazing how much prices went up in that timeframe. In 1965, you could still get a Newport for as low as $3,009. That was for the 4W 4-door pillared sedan. The 6W was $3,146, only 3 dollars cheaper than the 4-door hardtop! But, by '71, the cheapest Newport was $4,078, for the Royal 4-door sedan. The "regular" 4-door was $4190 and the Newport Custom was $4319.

For comparison, a '65 LeSabre started at $2948, and was up to $3992 for '71. I always think of the 70's (and even there I think it's 73+) as being a time of serious inflation, but that '65-71 jump is pretty serious, too! However, I wonder how much of that is because of more standard equipment?

andre1969 · October 2020

I'd almost forgotten about it, but "Royal" was an old name that Chrysler dusted off from their history files. I remember Grandmom saying that Granddad had a 1940 Chrysler Royal when they met, in 1946. I think it was a business coupe.

omarman · October 2020

Some increase beyond inflation must have been new standards from the Clean Air Act and NHTSA safety standards by model year 1971.

stickguy · October 2020

andre1969 said:
I'd almost forgotten about it, but "Royal" was an old name that Chrysler dusted off from their history files. I remember Grandmom saying that Granddad had a 1940 Chrysler Royal when they met, in 1946. I think it was a business coupe.

Was that a Royale with cheese?

andre1969 · October 2020

stickguy said:

andre1969 said:
I'd almost forgotten about it, but "Royal" was an old name that Chrysler dusted off from their history files. I remember Grandmom saying that Granddad had a 1940 Chrysler Royal when they met, in 1946. I think it was a business coupe.
Was that a Royale with cheese?

LOL, dunno about that...but Granddad taught Grandmom how to drive, and I think it was with this car...so I'm sure with all the "women driver" stereotype shenanigans back then, it might have been a "Royale with Quease?"

andre1969 · October 2020

On the subject of car prices, it's interesting how they were able to hold the line for so long. For instance, I always thought the Chrysler Newport sort of had its roots in the DeSoto Firesweep. When it came out for '61, DeSoto was down to just a 2/4-door hardtop with no series names, although it was priced roughly where the Firesweep had been. And the '61 Newport undercut the DeSotos just a bit, in price. Anyway, here's a rundown on base prices through the years, for a 4-door sedan:
1957 Firesweep: $2777
1958 Firesweep: $2819 (this year it got the 280 hp 350-2bbl Wedge standard, up from the 245 hp 325-2bbl poly-head)
1959 Firesweep: $2904 (upgraded to a 295 hp 361-2bbl Wedge)
1960 Fireflite: $3017 (even though they called it "Fireflite", it was downgraded to the entry model in a name shuffle. Still had the 361-2bbl
1961 Newport: $2964 (265 hp 361-2bbl standard, de-tuned to run on lower octane.)
1962 Newport: $2964
1963 Newport: $2964
1964 Newport: $2901
1965 Newport: $3009 (all-new, larger body. Also upgraded to 270 hp 383-2bbl)
1966 Newport: $3052
1967 Newport: $3159
1968 Newport: $3306 (now we're seeing a bit of inflation creep. Engine up to a 290 hp 383-2bbl)
1969 Newport: $3414
1970 Newport: $3514
1971 Newport: $4078 (Royal 4-door sedan; regular Newport was $4190. Engine downgraded to a 255 hp 360-2bbl; first use of the LA smallblock in a Chrysler. According to automobile-catalog, this was the last year a manual shift was standard)
1972 Newport: $4051 (Royal, Newport Custom was $4435. Royal used a 175 hp gross 360-2bbl, Custom got a 190 hp 400-2bbl, first year for standard automatic, according to automobile catalog)
1973 Newport: $4181 (185 hp 400-2bbl standard, no more smallblocks)
1974 Newport: $4677
1975 Newport: $4854 (400-2bbl down to 175 hp)
1976 Newport: $4993 (back to a 360-2bbl, with 170-175 hp)
1977 Newport: $5280 (190 hp 400-4bbl standard, 360 a credit option)
1978 Newport $5888 (4-door hardtop, the sedan was dropped. In '77 the 4-door hardtop had been about $150 more than the sedan. 190 hp 400 still standard)
1979 Newport: $6405 (first year for the R-body. 110 hp 225 slant six 2-bbl standard. 318 was a $315 option)
1980 Newport: $7247/$7343 (90 hp 225-1bbl / 120 hp 318 2-bbl)
1981 Newport: $7805/$7869 (85 hp 225-1bbl / 130 hp 318-2bbl)

I was surprised to see that it was 1972, and not 1971, that an automatic was made standard on the Newport. I figured it was worked in for '71, and that was part of what accounted for that big jump in price. Assuming automobile-catalogue is correct, that is...

roadburner · October 2020

I saw the twin of this car on the way to work today.

xwesx · October 2020

Nice! That's a car I would much rather see on the way to work than drive on the way to work.

uplanderguy · October 2020

Here's perhaps the latest four-door Cadillac I could enjoy as a collector's car...'79 Fleetwood Brougham, no wire covers, interesting color in and out IMHO, and leather seating that isn't the typical cushion and lower-back being just a ton of buttons, like Mopar and Cadillac got into big-time around that time.

Bad match between the car and rear bumper fillers, which are probably replacement as is typical.

This car is overpriced as an opening bid IMHO, but still, I like it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Cadillac-Fleetwood/264890263083?hash=item3dacb0a62b:g:XFMAAOSwA1tfbdtD

stickguy · October 2020

a guy in my neighborhood has one of those big caddy sedans. though it might be the later (smaller) version. They downsized at some point too, didn't they? Or was this the smallest the RWD versions got?

uplanderguy · October 2020

The '77-79 were the first of the downsized 'standard' Cadillacs. The later ones ('80 through '92) had a look of more heft IMHO, but they really were not bigger than the '77-79.

Nix that Fleetwood; I'd much-rather have this Eldo!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Cadillac-Eldorado/264857980698?hash=item3daac40f1a:g:OAcAAOSwH-xe-Sqm

Love the green with white trim, and the totally flat floor impresses me as much now as it did then.

The 'lesser' divisions had a green rather like this, in '72 and '73. My Dad and I both liked a '72 Chevelle coupe in this color at our local dealer. My mother did not drive, and always said she didn't care if Dad bought a car that was "sky blue pink". However, she did say "I never say anything about cars, you know that, but I hate that green. It looks like it was painted with a brush", LOL.

stickguy · October 2020

stylish car. Not my taste of course. Interesting color too.

fintail · October 2020

I know I've mentioned it before, the non-parallel window openings on the B-pillar of 77-79 Fleetwoods has caught my eye since I was a kid.

uplanderguy · October 2020

I know I've mentioned it before, the non-parallel window openings on the B-pillar of 77-79 Fleetwoods has caught my eye since I was a kid.

Me too. I used to not like it. I like it a lot now.

andre1969 · October 2020

Wasn't the similar green they used on the Chevies called "Spring Green" or something like that? Was it not available on the big cars? I notice if I google "1972 Chevrolet Spring Green" it's mostly Chevelles, Novas, and an occasional Camaro that comes up, along with occasional cars that are a different shade of green. But no big cars.

It looks like a color that a smaller, sportier, more youthful car would wear well. And pickup trucks seem to be able to get away with just about any color. But it seems like it would be out of place on a bigger, more formal car. Also, it seems like one of those colors that really changes with the light, so in some pictures I like it, others, not so much. Of course, some of that can also be photo quality, and how good of a repaint the car was.

I feel the same way about that "Nottingham Green" on the Eldorado. In some shots it looks good, but in others, it just looks too bright, like a crayon. And I'm normally a sucker for green! I had to laugh at your "sky blue pink" comment, Uplander...hadn't heard that phrase in years, but as a kid, I can recall my Grandmom, and Mom saying it...usually in sarcasm about something or other. So thanks, that took me back!

Oh, also, my apologies...I somehow missed your post about Carlisle. Yeah, I was there on Saturday. Too bad Hershey has been canceled. I was looking forward to going. For me, that usually signals the end of car show season.

uplanderguy · October 2020

"Spring Green" sounds right to me, for '72. In '73 Chevy just started using the adjectives "light", "medium", or "dark" in front of the colors, rather than a dramatic name. I like the dramatic names better!

In '72, on Chevys, you could not get it on the full-size cars, but you could in '73. I remember it on Novas, Chevelles, Camaros, and Monte Carlos in '72, and the same with the addition of full-sizes in '73.

ab348 · October 2020

In '72 Olds called paint code 36 "Radiant Green" which is a very distinctive bright green metallic. Chevy's Spring Green is the same paint code. The '70 Cadillac Nottingham Green is code 98 and is a "firemist" paint color, so they are rather different.

fintail · October 2020

I like it too, not sure why. I swear there's an older model with the same design element, I can't recall what, but I don't think it was random.

uplanderguy said:

Me too. I used to not like it. I like it a lot now.

andre1969 · October 2020

The '56 Lincoln sedan had a taper in the C-pillar, where it followed the cut of the back door and the curve of the rear window. A bit odd, but interesting...

I'm picturing something older with a tapered B-pillar as well though, but just can't think of what it is.

texases · October 2020

Is that the Ur-opera window?

fintail · October 2020

UR opera window:

ab348 · October 2020

andre1969 said:
The '56 Lincoln sedan had a taper in the C-pillar, where it followed the cut of the back door and the curve of the rear window. A bit odd, but interesting...

I’m not seeing the taper you’re seeing.

uplanderguy · October 2020

I'm picturing something older with a tapered B-pillar as well though, but just can't think of what it is.

Quick Google didn't reveal it, but for some reason, I'm thinking it was a product of Auburn, Cord, or Duesenberg.

The original Cadillac Sixty Special, designed by a young Bill Mitchell, had a B-pillar which I think the stylists were thinking about when they did the '71 Fleetwood Sixty-Special Brougham (and later GM Colonnade four-doors), but it wasn't tapered.

andre1969 · October 2020

From an episode of "CHiPs" yesterday...

I know Pontiac called it a "Firebird", but c'mon, let's not take that TOO literally!

imidazol97 · October 2020

I recall other Pontiacs that played with fire:

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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