Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

corvette · October 2020

On the CarPlay receiver - if you can get a 3.5mm aux input, I did fine with that plus a Bluetooth play/pause/RW/FF remote in the Tahoe. Might be less of an investment.

stickguy · October 2020

the old one pretty much was. The new one is more like a Jetta lifted wagon IMO. But, they are all on the same modular platform (one version or another).

qbrozen · October 2020

Michaell said:
I know I've mentioned my mom's car on this thread before - 2003 Hyundai Sonata GLS V6, with only 40K on it.

My sister has taken possession of it and has had her local mechanic look things over. He proclaimed it was in pretty good condition.

There were, however, a few issues that we felt was best handled by the dealer - the cruise control wasn't working, and there was a problem with the fuel filler neck that prevented gas from the nozzle to flow at a regular rate. The car is at the dealer now, and they are claiming that the timing belt needs to be replaced on top of the work we've already authorized.

Dealer says it should be changed every 5 years or 60,000 miles, so technically, it should have been changed 3 times by now. They want to charge $795 for the work - but, this does not include replacing the water pump.

My sister called her independent guy today, and he says that we he looked over the car a couple months back, he didn't see anything wrong with the belt that would require it to be replaced. When asked, he quoted $1000 for both the timing belt and water pump replacement.

So, do we:
1. Do nothing
2. Replace the belt only
3. Replace the belt and water pump

At some point in the near future, I'm going to collect the car and bring it back to Colorado, and I'm leaning to either (1) or (3), but wanted to ping the expertise here at CCBA for your opinions. No comments along the lines of why we're investing so much into a car that's worth so little - that ship has sailed, and we're OK with spending the money to keep it running.

Thanks!

No question in my mind it needs to be done. Personally, I'd be afraid to drive it with rubber that old being the only thing keeping the valves from meeting violently with the pistons.

And, yes, as others said, it is better to do it all at once since labor costs way more than the parts. $800-$1200 seems to be the going rate for most t-belt jobs. IMHO, it would be a good time for you to learn how to do it yourself.

qbrozen · October 2020

service advisor called today. Apparently the van will be there for quite some time. Because it is a $4k job, FCA is sending an inspector. That will take a day or two, and then the inspector's report and decision is another 4-5 days. Lovely.

I celebrated the news by taking the Pac out for a ... spirited ... drive to the pharmacy. It definitely has decent power, has more gears, is quite a bit lighter than our van, and has a lower center of gravity, so it can translate it into forward momentum more effectively. That's about it for positives.

nyccarguy · October 2020

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:
I know I've mentioned my mom's car on this thread before - 2003 Hyundai Sonata GLS V6, with only 40K on it.

My sister has taken possession of it and has had her local mechanic look things over. He proclaimed it was in pretty good condition.

There were, however, a few issues that we felt was best handled by the dealer - the cruise control wasn't working, and there was a problem with the fuel filler neck that prevented gas from the nozzle to flow at a regular rate. The car is at the dealer now, and they are claiming that the timing belt needs to be replaced on top of the work we've already authorized.

Dealer says it should be changed every 5 years or 60,000 miles, so technically, it should have been changed 3 times by now. They want to charge $795 for the work - but, this does not include replacing the water pump.

My sister called her independent guy today, and he says that we he looked over the car a couple months back, he didn't see anything wrong with the belt that would require it to be replaced. When asked, he quoted $1000 for both the timing belt and water pump replacement.

So, do we:
1. Do nothing
2. Replace the belt only
3. Replace the belt and water pump

At some point in the near future, I'm going to collect the car and bring it back to Colorado, and I'm leaning to either (1) or (3), but wanted to ping the expertise here at CCBA for your opinions. No comments along the lines of why we're investing so much into a car that's worth so little - that ship has sailed, and we're OK with spending the money to keep it running.

Thanks!
No question in my mind it needs to be done. Personally, I'd be afraid to drive it with rubber that old being the only thing keeping the valves from meeting violently with the pistons.

And, yes, as others said, it is better to do it all at once since labor costs way more than the parts. $800-$1200 seems to be the going rate for most t-belt jobs. IMHO, it would be a good time for you to learn how to do it yourself.

+1 - Do the belt & everything else “in there” before you take the 1,100 mile trip back to CO.

au1994 · October 2020

qbrozen said:
service advisor called today. Apparently the van will be there for quite some time. Because it is a $4k job, FCA is sending an inspector. That will take a day or two, and then the inspector's report and decision is another 4-5 days. Lovely.

I celebrated the news by taking the Pac out for a ... spirited ... drive to the pharmacy. It definitely has decent power, has more gears, is quite a bit lighter than our van, and has a lower center of gravity, so it can translate it into forward momentum more effectively. That's about it for positives.

Goodness, Could this be the beginning of the end?

au1994 · October 2020

stickguy said:
the old one pretty much was. The new one is more like a Jetta lifted wagon IMO. But, they are all on the same modular platform (one version or another).

What became of the Jetta service bill?

qbrozen · October 2020

au1994 said:

qbrozen said:
service advisor called today. Apparently the van will be there for quite some time. Because it is a $4k job, FCA is sending an inspector. That will take a day or two, and then the inspector's report and decision is another 4-5 days. Lovely.

I celebrated the news by taking the Pac out for a ... spirited ... drive to the pharmacy. It definitely has decent power, has more gears, is quite a bit lighter than our van, and has a lower center of gravity, so it can translate it into forward momentum more effectively. That's about it for positives.
Goodness, Could this be the beginning of the end?

Heck, if anything, it is a signal to me to keep it because a new one without the warranty won’t last very long!

mjfloyd1 · October 2020

I got the lifetime warranty on my wrangler JL for the same reason. I bought the warranty cheap from a dealership known to sell them cheap. I suspect that it will be worthwhile

oldfarmer50 · October 2020

qbrozen said:
service advisor called today. Apparently the van will be there for quite some time. Because it is a $4k job, FCA is sending an inspector. That will take a day or two, and then the inspector's report and decision is another 4-5 days. Lovely.

I celebrated the news by taking the Pac out for a ... spirited ... drive to the pharmacy. It definitely has decent power, has more gears, is quite a bit lighter than our van, and has a lower center of gravity, so it can translate it into forward momentum more effectively. That's about it for positives.

Let me understand this, you have a lifetime warranty (through FCA I assume) and they are dragging their heels on paying for covered services?

mjfloyd1 · October 2020

I suspect that there vehicle service contract has a separate division and has separate accounting. I’m sure that is why they send an inspector

kyfdx · October 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:
service advisor called today. Apparently the van will be there for quite some time. Because it is a $4k job, FCA is sending an inspector. That will take a day or two, and then the inspector's report and decision is another 4-5 days. Lovely.

I celebrated the news by taking the Pac out for a ... spirited ... drive to the pharmacy. It definitely has decent power, has more gears, is quite a bit lighter than our van, and has a lower center of gravity, so it can translate it into forward momentum more effectively. That's about it for positives.
Let me understand this, you have a lifetime warranty (through FCA I assume) and they are dragging their heels on paying for covered services?

Why does this surprise you?

stickguy · October 2020

mjfloyd1 said:
I suspect that there vehicle service contract has a separate division and has separate accounting. I’m sure that is why they send an inspector

A combo of wanting to make sure stuff is actually needed (not trusting dealer) and likely looking for excuses to deny some of it anyway.

Or they just have a rule that any job over $X.XX needs higher level approval.

stickguy · October 2020

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
the old one pretty much was. The new one is more like a Jetta lifted wagon IMO. But, they are all on the same modular platform (one version or another).

What became of the Jetta service bill?

Oh yeah, forgot that update. Went back at lunch, found the guy and I pointed out hey goofed (politely, as promised to the princess.). I always start out sweet! He just said Oh, clicked a bit, took the charge off, and brought over new paperwork. I looked at it, wondered why price was still higher than normal, and figured out he never applied her coupon. So cashier goes back to his desk, the futz with it a bit, and she comes back with a final $ amount as expected. So kid pays, we leave.

But proving I never learn my lesson, I didn’t read through the full work order until we got home. And discovered a technician note that they did not rotate the tires (something with wear on the rears) even though it was on the bill. So had to call the SA up and question that. Supposedly he is having a credit but through today, but based on how clueless he has been so far, I don’t expect to get it without more calls.

I am more ticked off that even though she paid too dollar for dealer experts, the SA did not even point out they found an issue that might need attention. I doubt more than 5% of the customers would ever have read the work order like I did, and picked out the issue (it was buried in the rambling notes).

au1994 · October 2020

stickguy said:

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
the old one pretty much was. The new one is more like a Jetta lifted wagon IMO. But, they are all on the same modular platform (one version or another).

What became of the Jetta service bill?
Oh yeah, forgot that update. Went back at lunch, found the guy and I pointed out hey goofed (politely, as promised to the princess.). I always start out sweet! He just said Oh, clicked a bit, took the charge off, and brought over new paperwork. I looked at it, wondered why price was still higher than normal, and figured out he never applied her coupon. So cashier goes back to his desk, the futz with it a bit, and she comes back with a final $ amount as expected. So kid pays, we leave.

But proving I never learn my lesson, I didn’t read through the full work order until we got home. And discovered a technician note that they did not rotate the tires (something with wear on the rears) even though it was on the bill. So had to call the SA up and question that. Supposedly he is having a credit but through today, but based on how clueless he has been so far, I don’t expect to get it without more calls.

I am more ticked off that even though she paid too dollar for dealer experts, the SA did not even point out they found an issue that might need attention. I doubt more than 5% of the customers would ever have read the work order like I did, and picked out the issue (it was buried in the rambling notes).

Sigh...It’s just never easy with car dealers sometimes. It’s one of the reasons I was always such a fan of leasing. Outside of the obvious getting to scratch the itch every 2-3 years, usually the only time I set foot in the dealer was a simple (free) oil change or once in a blue moon, warranty work.

stickguy · October 2020

Made me appreciate the 2015 Jetta. That was a lease, and they included 3 years maintenance so I never realized how expensive VW dealer service was.

nyccarguy · October 2020

stickguy said:
Made me appreciate the 2015 Jetta. That was a lease, and they included 3 years maintenance so I never realized how expensive VW dealer service was.

Part of the reason I leased a 2011 BMW 328xi back in 2012. Leased for 30 months/20K per year (50K total). BMWs included scheduled maintenance back then. In 2 1/2 years, I got oil changes, inspection services, brake pads & rotors changed all on BMW's dime.

tifighter · October 2020

Another strategy is to eliminate most of the maintenance altogether.

sda · October 2020

https://www.hendrickvwofconcord.com/used/Honda/2013-Honda-Accord-concord-nc-1a403adc0a0e0a6b1475e26229850bd4.htm

Here is a link to the listing of my Accord. It served me well. I owned it for 7 years and 1 month, a record for me!

omarman · October 2020

Nice car. Interior pics look really good especially for that many years with light "ivory" interior. It will go quickly I think. Saw this line below: "$699.00 Dealer Administrative Charge is not included in advertised price." That's like a 5% used car tax.

au1994 · October 2020

tifighter said:
Another strategy is to eliminate most of the maintenance altogether.

I had the same deal @nyccarguy describes on my ‘11 328 and I think my ‘13 as well.

I wonder what % of lessee’s do absolutely no maintenance whatsoever, free or not?

sda · October 2020

omarman said:
Nice car. Interior pics look really good especially for that many years with light "ivory" interior. It will go quickly I think. Saw this line below: "$699.00 Dealer Administrative Charge is not included in advertised price." That's like a 5% used car tax.

Admin Fees are typical of most local dealers. They seem to range from $599-899, absurd. Car Max is even charging one though I think it is around $399, but their cars are always priced high.

oldfarmer50 · October 2020

stickguy said:
Made me appreciate the 2015 Jetta. That was a lease, and they included 3 years maintenance so I never realized how expensive VW dealer service was.

I can see why you might be a VW fan. Very robust cars apparently.

https://youtu.be/KjB7ukt9HA8

oldfarmer50 · October 2020

sda said:
https://www.hendrickvwofconcord.com/used/Honda/2013-Honda-Accord-concord-nc-1a403adc0a0e0a6b1475e26229850bd4.htm

Here is a link to the listing of my Accord. It served me well. I owned it for 7 years and 1 month, a record for me!

Over $13k for a 100,000 mile car. I guess they do hold their value. That’s why I’ll probably never own a Honda, can’t afford them new, don’t want to pay the premium used. I’ll just keep trying to get 300k miles out if my domestic hoopties.

oldfarmer50 · October 2020

sda said:

omarman said:
Nice car. Interior pics look really good especially for that many years with light "ivory" interior. It will go quickly I think. Saw this line below: "$699.00 Dealer Administrative Charge is not included in advertised price." That's like a 5% used car tax.
Admin Fees are typical of most local dealers. They seem to range from $599-899, absurd. Car Max is even charging one though I think it is around $399, but their cars are always priced high.

In NY it’s limited to $75. That’s why you don’t see lower advertised prices in the ads. I was all set to go shopping in CT based on ads until I found out they had something like $500 doc fees which negated the lower advertised prices.

nyccarguy · October 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

omarman said:
Nice car. Interior pics look really good especially for that many years with light "ivory" interior. It will go quickly I think. Saw this line below: "$699.00 Dealer Administrative Charge is not included in advertised price." That's like a 5% used car tax.
Admin Fees are typical of most local dealers. They seem to range from $599-899, absurd. Car Max is even charging one though I think it is around $399, but their cars are always priced high.
In NY it’s limited to $75. That’s why you don’t see lower advertised prices in the ads. I was all set to go shopping in CT based on ads until I found out they had something like $500 doc fees which negated the lower advertised prices.

CT & NJ both have high "doc fees." In CT we are fancy and call them "conveyance fees."

au1994 · October 2020

One of the Porsche dealers here touts the deals on their ‘previously enjoyed’ inventory. I haven’t checked but they probably have large ‘conveyance fees’ on those.

andres3 · October 2020

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:
I suspect that there vehicle service contract has a separate division and has separate accounting. I’m sure that is why they send an inspector
A combo of wanting to make sure stuff is actually needed (not trusting dealer) and likely looking for excuses to deny some of it anyway.

Or they just have a rule that any job over $X.XX needs higher level approval.

I'd say it's more "manufacture an excuse" than lack of trusting the dealership. It also delays the repairs and payments quite nicely.

andres3 · October 2020

qbrozen said:
service advisor called today. Apparently the van will be there for quite some time. Because it is a $4k job, FCA is sending an inspector. That will take a day or two, and then the inspector's report and decision is another 4-5 days. Lovely.

I celebrated the news by taking the Pac out for a ... spirited ... drive to the pharmacy. It definitely has decent power, has more gears, is quite a bit lighter than our van, and has a lower center of gravity, so it can translate it into forward momentum more effectively. That's about it for positives.

They gave you a free loaner???

andres3 · October 2020

Apparently Arizona allows up to $500 "documents" fees. And here I thought $80 was a ripoff in California.

I think a law should be passed that only the government gets to charge fees and taxes, and that businesses be forced to include all of their fees in the asking price.

nyccarguy · October 2020

I've said before, as long as the bottom line is cheaper, I don't care what the doc fee is. I can't stand when a dealer makes it sound like they are charging it as a right of passage. "We have to charge it, it is pre printed on the bill of sale" I always politely say no, you don't HAVE to charge it, but if you choose to charge a doc fee, then you MUST charge it to everyone.

When I bought my Legacy, the dealer closer to my house in CT (which is a different distributor, Subaru of New England) had a $299 or $399 Conveyance Fee. The dealer 15 minutes down I-95 (in New York) only charged a $75 doc fee. The CT dealer had a lower selling price, but after I netted out everything the NY dealer came out to $100 cheaper (on the nose). I went back to the CT dealer and asked him to lower his selling price by $100. He asked why. I explained. His answer was: "Well I don't see the problem. We ARE selling you the car cheaper than the other dealer, but we HAVE to charge the Conveyance Fee." I thanked him for his time and went to NY to buy the car.

qbrozen · October 2020

andres3 said:

qbrozen said:
service advisor called today. Apparently the van will be there for quite some time. Because it is a $4k job, FCA is sending an inspector. That will take a day or two, and then the inspector's report and decision is another 4-5 days. Lovely.

I celebrated the news by taking the Pac out for a ... spirited ... drive to the pharmacy. It definitely has decent power, has more gears, is quite a bit lighter than our van, and has a lower center of gravity, so it can translate it into forward momentum more effectively. That's about it for positives.
They gave you a free loaner???

It is actually a rental! They are paying for it. They have a deal with the local Enterprise. And my lifetime warranty includes a loaner, sooo...

I do have to pay $5/day, though, for taxes or some such fee.

qbrozen · October 2020

mjfloyd1 said:
I got the lifetime warranty on my wrangler JL for the same reason. I bought the warranty cheap from a dealership known to sell them cheap. I suspect that it will be worthwhile

Is yours the Maximum Care? When did you get it? I thought I read they stopped offering lifetime. What did it run you?

I did find it cheaper from an online dealer, so I got our dealer to drop the price. I think he was $3k-$3200, IIRC. Online was like $2199. Said he couldn’t go that low BUT getting it with him allowed rolling into the 1.9% financing.

andres3 · October 2020

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/304gVEYg/2012-volvo-s60-t6-awd-r-design

I like the color, and it's not far from me, but is it fast? Will it fall apart and need monthly care?

What about this as my FIRST BMW in life? https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9nqWpb8B/2000-bmw-m5

Any pitfalls? What should it sell at?

tjc78 · October 2020

So, I couldn't help myself....

I get a text from the dealer I bought the Enclave from. Typical type of solicitation. I'm eligible for pull ahead, incredible October incentives, etc, etc

So I said sure... quote me on a fully loaded Enclave @ 36/10. They only have four in stock, so I can only imagine how bad this quote will be.

No intention of buying until after we close on the house, but with everything going on I can use some entertainment right now.

venture · October 2020

nyccarguy said:
I've said before, as long as the bottom line is cheaper, I don't care what the doc fee is. I can't stand when a dealer makes it sound like they are charging it as a right of passage. "We have to charge it, it is pre printed on the bill of sale" I always politely say no, you don't HAVE to charge it, but if you choose to charge a doc fee, then you MUST charge it to everyone.

I'm not sure that is true. At least in Pennsylvania.

I looked up the law on doc fees one time and it is a negotiable fee and it is not allowed to be pre-printed on the form.

I know the upper limit has changed since then, but I doubt the rest has changed.

Oh yeah. I always ask how much the doc fee is when I'm in F&I just to poke them a little. They always say it's the law that they must charge the upper limit. The sad part is, most of them probably think that's true.

mjfloyd1 · October 2020

qbrozen said:

mjfloyd1 said:
I got the lifetime warranty on my wrangler JL for the same reason. I bought the warranty cheap from a dealership known to sell them cheap. I suspect that it will be worthwhile
Is yours the Maximum Care? When did you get it? I thought I read they stopped offering lifetime. What did it run you?

I did find it cheaper from an online dealer, so I got our dealer to drop the price. I think he was $3k-$3200, IIRC. Online was like $2199. Said he couldn’t go that low BUT getting it with him allowed rolling into the 1.9% financing.

bought 8/2018 -Hayes in Kalamazoo MI. I think they stopped offering it shortly after I bought it. . Lifetime maximum care with $100 deductible was $2745. Jeep dealership where I bought Wrangler said that was dealer cost

au1994 · October 2020

tjc78 said:
So, I couldn't help myself....

I get a text from the dealer I bought the Enclave from. Typical type of solicitation. I'm eligible for pull ahead, incredible October incentives, etc, etc

So I said sure... quote me on a fully loaded Enclave @ 36/10. They only have four in stock, so I can only imagine how bad this quote will be.

No intention of buying until after we close on the house, but with everything going on I can use some entertainment right now.

When do you close? You’ve obviously got the upper hand in negotiation since you don’t have to do anything right now. Counter with something ridiculously low. It’s 2020, you never know what may be accepted.

stickguy · October 2020

andres3 said:
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/304gVEYg/2012-volvo-s60-t6-awd-r-design

I like the color, and it's not far from me, but is it fast? Will it fall apart and need monthly care?

What about this as my FIRST BMW in life? https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9nqWpb8B/2000-bmw-m5

Any pitfalls? What should it sell at?

Volvo is nice. I like that. But, 8 YO, complicated, highish miles. It will not be cheap to keep. Fast? Yes, unless your bar is ZL1 being acceptable, anything else too slow.

That M5, would not recommend as your first BMW. Or at all, unless you had a full workshop and training as a BMW tech, all their tools, and plenty of money for parts. Personally, I would not touch any BMW V8. Though they are better than the V10!

corvette · October 2020

I guess it's a moot point since they no longer offer the lifetime warranty as an option, but I wonder what they did if someone bought a car and the lifetime warranty and discovered they hated it a couple of months later--does the warranty and the money paid for it just vanish into thin air since it's not transferable?

tjc78 · October 2020

au1994 said:

tjc78 said:
So, I couldn't help myself....

I get a text from the dealer I bought the Enclave from. Typical type of solicitation. I'm eligible for pull ahead, incredible October incentives, etc, etc

So I said sure... quote me on a fully loaded Enclave @ 36/10. They only have four in stock, so I can only imagine how bad this quote will be.

No intention of buying until after we close on the house, but with everything going on I can use some entertainment right now.
When do you close? You’ve obviously got the upper hand in negotiation since you don’t have to do anything right now. Counter with something ridiculously low. It’s 2020, you never know what may be accepted.

So they quoted a 60K Enclave Avenir at $847 a month with zero DAS.

That’s seriously funny stuff right there. That must include a free Encore lease as well.

qbrozen · October 2020

corvette said:
I guess it's a moot point since they no longer offer the lifetime warranty as an option, but I wonder what they did if someone bought a car and the lifetime warranty and discovered they hated it a couple of months later--does the warranty and the money paid for it just vanish into thin air since it's not transferable?

No. It was refundable to a point.

mjfloyd1 · October 2020

Mine says one time transferable for $50

Michaell · October 2020

tjc78 said:

au1994 said:

tjc78 said:
So, I couldn't help myself....

I get a text from the dealer I bought the Enclave from. Typical type of solicitation. I'm eligible for pull ahead, incredible October incentives, etc, etc

So I said sure... quote me on a fully loaded Enclave @ 36/10. They only have four in stock, so I can only imagine how bad this quote will be.

No intention of buying until after we close on the house, but with everything going on I can use some entertainment right now.
When do you close? You’ve obviously got the upper hand in negotiation since you don’t have to do anything right now. Counter with something ridiculously low. It’s 2020, you never know what may be accepted.
So they quoted a 60K Enclave Avenir at $847 a month with zero DAS.

That’s seriously funny stuff right there. That must include a free Encore lease as well.

36/12 numbers are .00007 and 53%, which means the adjusted cap is right around $62,100.

Not much of a discount from MSRP, me thinks; or, there is a big discount, but they've marked up the MF to compensate.

Either way, a hard pass.

corvette · October 2020

Pretty sure those lease numbers are worse than a Tahoe or Yukon. That was the dilemma when I leased the Tundra--either I could have leased a new Tahoe, *or* a new Tundra plus two Tacomas for the same vig.

stickguy · October 2020

the weird dynamics of monthly payment is what I love about leasing. The thrill of finding out what nice cars can be had for less money than boring ones!

tjc78 · October 2020

I’ll hit them up tomorrow for details just to see what they did.

MF must be marked up big time as they show discounts and rebates.

nyccarguy · October 2020

tjc78 said:

au1994 said:

tjc78 said:
So, I couldn't help myself....

I get a text from the dealer I bought the Enclave from. Typical type of solicitation. I'm eligible for pull ahead, incredible October incentives, etc, etc

So I said sure... quote me on a fully loaded Enclave @ 36/10. They only have four in stock, so I can only imagine how bad this quote will be.

No intention of buying until after we close on the house, but with everything going on I can use some entertainment right now.
When do you close? You’ve obviously got the upper hand in negotiation since you don’t have to do anything right now. Counter with something ridiculously low. It’s 2020, you never know what may be accepted.
So they quoted a 60K Enclave Avenir at $847 a month with zero DAS.

That’s seriously funny stuff right there. That must include a free Encore lease as well.

Was there a 2 drink minimum at this place? Who was the head lining act?

nyccarguy · October 2020

tjc78 said:
I’ll hit them up tomorrow for details just to see what they did.

MF must be marked up big time as they show discounts and rebates.

53% isn’t a bad residual for a GM car. Who in their right mind would pay $850 a month for that car?

stickguy · October 2020

just had to post this for Michael.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK49fizlT4U

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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