Dodge Dakota - General Topic

duwop1 · October 2004

First,thanks to ron35(what does the 35 stand for)and bpeebles for answering my post.I think bpeebles saw thru my ignorance when I said cat-back.Would it have made a difference if I said back of cat?My thought is to leave the cat.alone and have the duals end up coming out under the bumper like old time duals.There's a custom exhaust shop near me that seems to know what they are doing and have done several.I'm not positive,but I think they know I want them coming out the rear, not the side.Of the four choices that bpeebles listed looks,sound,performance,and longevity,I was only interested in looks.If this project is going to cause problems with my truck then I'm out.You do not need to go deep, but I thought that by the time the exhaust left the cat it didn't matter how many pipes you had.Now,a guy who has no clue what intake plenum is, probably has no clue about anything.(by the way I am talking about me)You guy's are just to smart for me.How come no one mentioned my super charger jokes?I thought they were funny.Oh well!!! thanks again

bpeebles · October 2004

Ron35 is correct. Most dual-out-the-rear on the dakota require REMOVAL of the spare tire.

EXAMPLE:
http://www.geocities.com/maldbnsf/Dualback.html

Here are 2 links with pictures of Daks with dual exhaust out the back (like you describe)
http://home.ec.rr.com/blackdak/mods.htm#MBRP

(this one KEEPS the spare tire)
http://www.geocities.com/dak2nv/magnaflow.html

Here is a small sample of exhaust links from my research. (I will leave it up to you to figure out which one I have on my Dak ;-))
http://www.mbrp.com/
http://www.gibsonperformance.com/
http://www.bbexhaust.com/
http://www.truckaddons.com/Catalog/subpages/Borla1.htm?CP1=Goto&a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;CP2=borla
http://www.borla.com/
http://www.bosalperformance.com/
http://www.edelbrock.com/home.html
http://www.exhaustproslinc.com/index.html
http://www.jardineproducts.com/
http://www.magnaflow.com/01home.htm

55535432 · October 2004

I own a 2003 RAV 4 right now. and I want to trade it in for a Honda SUT. Unfortunately it would be a long wait and the RAV 4 doesn't give me the peace of mind while driving it coz it ain't got no sideairbags. Have seen alot of T-bone accidents and side-airbags make a big difference in terms of gravity of a persons injuries.

Anyone who can cite reasons why I should lease a Dakota over a Nissan Frontier or Toyota Tacoma aside from the fact that I hate Toyotas and their lying dealers. Am considering leasing American trucks now coz Consumer Reports showed that the Dodge Dakota is reliable. Aside from the Dakota which one among the American cars is a better choice? Does the Dakota have a V6 and sideairbags.

I wanted to dispose my RAV 4 last week but my wife lost the cargo cover when she went shopping at Costco. Toyota wanted $600-700 to replace it, got a replacement for it from ebay for $200. Now am ready to trade-in, or maybe trade lease.

Thank you for all your responses

duwop1 · October 2004

AH-HA As Peter Sellers would say,The mystery is sol-ved,I told you guy's not to trust me,how about we forget everything I've said and start over.Leave the cat on,leave the muffler on,just cut the dam tail pipe off,add a y pipe a couple of hangers,a couple of stainless steel round tips coming straight out under the rear bumper and wa-la you have the but end of a truck with dual exhausts.Not only is it going to look great,IT DOES LOOK GREAT,I DID IT THIS MORNING AND COULDN'T BE HAPPYIER.As I mentioned earlier I already have all the performence I need with my Cobra SVT,I would justlike to have a great looking truck that runs nice.Thank you all,and If I may I'd like to come back.Thanks again.

dustyk · October 2004

Once being fond of Nissan after a very cordial 10-year relationship with my past Sentra, I found it a little difficult to walk away from the Frontier. However, the '03 Dakota Club Cab that I purchased has been remarkably satisfying in every way.

My main objective was to be able to load my ATV onto the bed of a truck and close the tailgate. This was not only impossible in the Frontier, but the four-door version of that truck had extremely disappointing rear seating.

Guys with the V6 Frontier are reporting slightly higher fuel mileage, but not much. This summer my 4.7 V8 auto had an average of over 18 MPG. The Dakota is solid and quiet and more than quite comfortable.

Best regards,
Dusty

bobfish · October 2004

I would like to install a power driver seat in my 03 Dakota. I bought a new Dakota power seat base on e-bay but I need a power seat wire harness with the controls to operate it,went to a Dodge parts dept.and they said they could not order a harness just for the seat and told me I should try a salvage yard.I have called several salvage yards with no luck. Anyone out there with any knowledge of auto electronics who could help me come up with a way I could hook this up by making my own kind of wire harness with maybe rocker switches from an auto parts store? I would appreciate any help.

dustyk · October 2004

>>>and they said they could not order a harness just for the seat and told me <<<

Hmmm. I once participated in a major wiring repair on a '71 Dodge Coronet that had been hacked up. All of the firewall wiring had been cut at the connectors (Hemi engine was stolen).

We were able to order all of the wiring harnesses at that time. Of course, that was 30+ years ago.

So what happens should a Dakota catches on fire or something? Still, I find it hard to believe that the harnesses are not available from the factory.

Try another dealer. Maybe the parts guy wasn't savvy enough.

Good luck and best regards,
Dusty

bobfish · October 2004

Yes I can order a harness, but it is a complete wire harness for the entire truck. I went to two different dealers same story.

popdaddy · October 2004

I bought a 2000 Dakota club cab with 45,000 miles a couple of weeks ago. When I test drove it, the engine light came on. The dealer checked it and said it was a loose sensor under the hood. I bought his explanation and the truck. Yesterday the engine line came on again. I know I'll need to get it checked, but is this a common problem?

dustyk · October 2004

>>>When I test drove it, the engine light came on. The dealer checked it and said it was a loose sensor under the hood.<<<

In the literal context of what you wrote in the above, no, it is not a common thing.

There are many, many reasons for a check engine light. You need to get the fault code out of the system. Starting with the ignition switch in the off position, move the switch to the on position three times, stopping in the on position. Observe the oddometer section of the instrument cluster. You should see a fault code displayed (if you have a fault) starting with the letter "P."

Come back here with the code and someone can ggive some indication of where the problem might be.

Regards,
Dusty

bpeebles · October 2004

I would like to think that you "wrote into the contract" that this engine light is the responsibility of the dealer if it comes back on. On more than one occasion I have put into writing specific conditions of purchase.

To get more info, simply turn the ignition key from off/on/off/on/off/on (without engauging the starter motor) Odometor will then display the diagnostics and reveal any troublecode that exists. Look up the troublecodes on any OBDII website.

http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html
http://www.obdii.com

Then, you will be 'armed' with the knowledge of specifically why the CEL came on.

popdaddy · October 2004

The code is P 0442. I looked it up in Allpar and it said "Small leak in the evaporative purge system." Hopefully you're going to tell me that's technical jargon for having a bad gas cap.

popdaddy · October 2004

Okay, more than a gas cap. But I did find a TSB on it, and it's still under warranty, so the dealer should fix it, right?

gtownguy · October 2004

Hi all, Please look in Problems and Solutions, -just last week. I had this same code and all seems to be well so far. Can be a few simple things, but mine ended up being a rusted out (inside) gas cap.

Good luck
Tom.

popdaddy · October 2004

Thanks, Tom, and everybody. I'll check the lines and replace the gas cap and see what happens.

dustyk · October 2004

Usually the "small leak" fault is a vapor return line and a "large leak" fault code is the gas cap. My "small leak" was the gas cap, however.

Regards,
Dusty

jimq · October 2004

Bobfish, there is already a 12V feed for the power seat located under the carpet. I came across it when I installed a Apline CD/MP3 changer in my 02 Dakota. I used to own a 99 Durango with Power seats and the power seat harness connected to this 12V feed. The parts department should definitely be able to locate a part # for the power seat wiring harness. It will probably be listed on the same schematic as the power seat controls or possibly the power seat track. The schematic might not list it as a harness, Mopar parts descriptions can sometimes be cryptic.

bobfish · October 2004

Thanks for the information I will check to see if I also have a 12v feed line and go from there.

popdaddy · October 2004

I guess my small leak was the gas cap, too. I replaced it, and the light is now gone. Thanks.

bobfish · November 2004

Found the 12v lead I went to a third dodge parts dept.and they found the wire harness for the power seat. I then bought a fuse for the power seat and plugged it in the fuse block marked power seat,and now have a power seat. Thank you to all who gave me helpful information in finding a power seat base and the harness and also for the location of the 12v feed wire.

dustyk · November 2004

Bob, it was hard for me to believe they didn't spare the harness. I think your first two parts dept. personnel were either inexperienced or impatient.

Glad to see you got things working.

Best regards,
Dusty

dustyk · December 2004

A friend wants to trade his F150 in for a new Dakota, but doesn't know if he'd like the all-wheel drive or the four-wheel drive better. Since I have no experience with the AWD option is there anyone out there that has had either one and can comment?

He seems to think that AWD would be all around better in the snow.

Thoughts?

Bests,

Dusty

atlgaxt · December 2004

Having driven both, I agree that AWD is better in the snow. Two things. In some conditions, like a winding or hilly road, it is not unusual to go from patches of dry road in the sun to icy snowy patches on the north side of a hill, and clicking in and out of 4wd can grow old. I run into the same situation driving on dirt roads in the mountains where changing road conditions would necessitate going between 4wd and 2wd.

I also heard that when going around a slick curve in snowy or icy conditions, a typical part time 4wd system with the center differential locked can cause your vehicle to spin out. That might be part of the reason you see so many trucks in the ditches with the greasy side up when the weather gets bad. For both of these situations, a full time or AWD mode with an open center differential is better.

However, with the Dakota, you can get the best of both worlds with AWD and a real low range for off roading (I think the low will lock the center differential, someone can correct me if I am wrong). This system is one thing that might lean me towards the Dakota when it gets time (when my wife lets me) to replace my truck.

bpeebles · December 2004

(Dusty) My experience (Over 25 Vermont winters) has given me a unique perspective to answer your question with some autohority. I have driven (abused) many different types of "all wheel drive" systems that range from simple open differential in the xfer case to the systems that uses viscous couplings.

The "open differential in the xfer case" system is stupidly simple to add to any 4WD vehicle and then call it "Full time four wheel drive" There are many drawbacks to this system. The worst one is that when ANY ONE WHEEL SPINS -- you are stuck. Also, cornering on slippery roads will almost ALWAYS end up with your outside-front wheen breaking loose first. You immediately end up with no steering control. During the rest of the year, your tires will wear out about twice as fast as normal AND you will tend to be replacing drivetrain components too (front axles and CV joints) This system also reduces MPG because of all of the drivetrain churn.

Somone mentioned vehicles in the ditch... this type of "open differential in the xfer case" is exactly the cheepo type of AWD system that can cause this to happen.

The system I just described above is what is available in the Dakota.

Just because the Dakota-Durango is related to the Jeep (engine and trannies) DC does NOT put the Jeep xfer case into the Dakota. If you want a real AWD system, DC wants you to buy a Jeep.

Bottom line: Dont get the "Full time four wheel drive" in the Dakota-Durango platform. It is not nearly as good as REAL 4X4 that can be put into 2WD in the summer time.

DC = Damlier Chrisler

dustyk · December 2004

Hey, guys. Thanks.

Bpeebles, so the Dakota AWD system is just a center differential added to a conventional 4WD? If that's the case I guess I'd have to agree that it's not optimum. The impression one get's from the term "all-wheel drive" is that power is applied to all wheels under varying road friction conditions.

I recommended to this fellow to consider a conventional 4-wheel drive with limited slip in the rear. This usually gives you three-wheel drive under many (most) conditions when in 4WD, since Dodge doesn't offer a locker.

Yeah, I thought about the driveline wear and tear, too. Seems like a lot of people I know with AWD mini-vans have a problem with the system after they collect some miles.

Still, this guy might trade-off the disadvantages for the better traction in snow. His wife has a Subaru and he's impressed with the way that car goes through snow.

Bests,

Dusty

saabgirl · December 2004

I hope to buy a new Dakota this Spring. Budget is an issue. Since 4wd looks like a $3000 option, I'm thinking about 2wd with traction control (plus about 300 lbs of sand bags over the rear axle in winter). I still have to figure out what combination of options would come out to this configuration.

I'm not an off-roader. Some friends say the 2wd set up should be fine. Others cite the "4wd holds value" plus traction in New England winters arguments. My brother says to get 4wd, not mention it to Saabgirl and hope she doesn't notice the insignias on the fenders.

But, heck, for a long stretch from the 1960s-80s I drove RWD sedans with no traction assist at all through all that Pennsylvania could throw at me.

Plus, as a retiree, I usually have the option of looking out the window and saying, "The heck with it."

All advice is appreciated.

iowabigguy · December 2004

I had a 2000 Dakota Quad cab 2wd 4.7 5-speed I special ordered which also had 4 wheel anti lock brakes. I had no problems in the Nebraska winters with up to 12" of snow. I had a limited slip differential and a full 4 wheel set of real snow tires. I traded that off about 18 months ago and essentially duplicated the same truck in a Ram 1500 except I had to take the 5 speed auto to get the Hemi. I have a second set of rims with Goodyear Wrangler GS-A all terrain tires. This works almost as well as the Dakota did in the snow. The Dakota had Bridgestone Blizzak snows which worked much better on glare ice.

Keep in mind that the terrain is generally flat with rolling hills so I don't have to deal with mountains. Rick

atlgaxt · December 2004

My main experience with AWD has been with my 2004 Forester XT, which varies torque between the axles to maximize traction. For the snow / ice I still think this is the best system.

Are you sure that on the Dakota full time 4wd you can spin one tire and get stuck? That does not make sense, and it is not like some other full time 4wd vehicles I have driven. Does putting the vehicle in 4wd low lock the center differential?

If you are right, I back off on my endorsement of the Dakota with the full time 4wd. However, while I do not live in Vermont, I still think that a real AWD system (that varies power between the axles) is superior to a part time 4wd system with a locked center differential in the snow and ice, and I still think that a locked center differential at higher speeds and in slick conditions can cause you vehicle to spin as compared to a real AWD system. However, when you are doing serious, low speed off road duty, a locked center differential is a must.

surfla1 · December 2004

Hello Everyone,

Long time since I've posted. But that has been probably due to the fact that up until now my 2002 Dakota Sport Quad Cab, 2wd, LSD, 4.7 with manual trans. has been ironclad. I have 65K on this baby and have not had to take it to the shop for anything except a tune-up. Even the brakes have held up well, although I do live in mountain less Florida.

The problem I have recently experienced is resistance when shifting into first gear. Sometimes it is so bad I can't shift into first at all without moving the gear shift around a little or shifting into second (without engaging the gears) and then back up to first. It is becoming annoying enough that I'm ready to take it in for a repair if necessary.

The question I have is that at a little over 50k I had the transmission fluid replaced with Synthetic Red Line. While underneath for my last few oil changes I have noticed very minor amounts of transmission fluid in and around the exposed threads of the transmission drain plug. If it is leaking, it must be extremely slow as there have been no drips or puddles in my garage. Could this slow leak be causing the resistance I am experiencing when shifting into first gear? Those of you who remember me will also remember that I always freely admitted to not being mechanically inclined (though I am improving). How do you check the fluid level in the manual transmission? And if it is low/leaking, how do you add more? I had a shop do the fluid drain and replace. I wanted some opinions and perhaps a self fix before I take it in.

Although it has been a long time since I posted I have continued to be an avid reader and have enjoyed all the information I've received and learned from. For those interested I regularly average 17 mpg. city driving and 21 mpg hwy. I'm disappointed with the exterior look of the 2005 Dakota and that a 5.7 is not (just currently?) an option. I think the Durango looks like a Minivan on steroids and the Dakota exterior designers had writers block.

Patrick

seventy7 · December 2004

I have experienced that same trouble shifting into 1st gear. Always happens after being in neutral without the clutch pedal depressed (like after waiting at a long light). It started around the 30k mile mark.

Searched the problem on the DML archives and someone else had the same issue after switching to Redline, but there were no solutions.

Was thinking of trying Redline to see if it would solve this, but obviously that doesn't seem to be the fix. The 5-speed tranny fluid is the one fluid that Dodge says "does not require periodic changing".

Took it to Dodge before the 3 year warranty ended and they said it was possibly a worn clutch, and to open it up and take a look for another problem would cost about $800, which I would be liable for if it was indeed the clutch. I argued a bit with the service manager, to no avail, and then took it to a local tranny shop, and they said it could be the clutch, or a couple other things (possibly a pilot bearing, if I recall), but they wouldn't know until they opened it up. I said I would wait to see if it got worse. 2 years later, it hasn't really gotten any worse. I can usually get it into first gear if I force it a bit, or shift into another gear first (pumping the clutch does not help). It also slides into first easily when coming to a stop at around 5MPH. Interestingly, the problem seems to lessen when the weather gets colder (below 0ºF), but comes right back in the spring, or on warmer days.

I haven't abused the tranny or clutch, and am a very light shifter (no 4000 rpm drops, or feathering the clutch, etc).

Truck hasn't had any other serious problems (not that this is serious........yet).

You check the fluid level by taking out the fill plug on the side of the tranny and sticking your finger in (I think you use a 1/2" socket drive to back out the plug). The level should come within 1/4" of the top, or leak out slightly.

2000 CC 4WD 4.7 5-speed LSD 48,000 miles

spike50 · December 2004

Although your profile doesn't note your state (weather / climate), I agree with your leaning towards a 2WD w/ a limited slip rear differential (LSD), if Mopar's "traction control" is the LSD. If you're not in the woods and you can exercise the "retiree's prerogative", that is, when to get on the winter roads, go with the 2WD plus winter tires plus the added weight. Should be fine for most situations.

A 2WD system will avoid the higher initial cost, added weight, poorer mileage (my 4x4 @ 65K has cost almost 2x as many $ in gas than an equivalent 2WD), and a 2WD truck sits lower and will be easier to get into and out of. I'm 6'3" and in certain situations when the ground tilts away from the truck, it's a chore to get that first a__ cheek on the seat. Hey, I'm not that fat either!

dustyk · December 2004

Saabgirl,

I think you're on the right track. I've been pleased with my 4x2 Club Cab with limited slip and the Goodyear SR/A tires for winter traction. I throw four seventy-pound sand bags in the bed and it does an admirably job. It's not FWD or 4WD, but I've found that the limited slip makes a big difference.

When I put my 650 lb. ATV in the back it makes a dramatic difference. Then I can go just about any where a 4WD would go in snow.

Bests,

Dusty

dustyk · December 2004

I've been told that the "NV" series of manuals exhibit this symptom after they accumulate some miles. Chevy/GMC owners complain about the same thing and they use the same transmission. Like you've experienced, it probably will get no worse.

Regards,

Dusty

bpeebles · December 2004

My 2000 Dak has the NV (New Venture) 5sp tranny with redline MTL in it. It has over 60K miles. I have not noticed any resistance going into 1st gear.

Technically, on any tranny, there are 2 possible reasons to have problems going into 1st gear;

1) Clutch not fully releasing

2) 1st gear Synchronyser is misbehaving

Obviously, the easiest and cheapest thing to try first is to change the xmission fluid. Any other corrective actions may be costly and not worth messing with anyway.

BTW: A clutch problem usually will be seen going into EVERY gear.

saabgirl · December 2004

>>I have a second set of rims with Goodyear Wrangler GS-A all terrain tires.<<

Great idea! Thanks.

>>I'm 6'3" and in certain situations when the ground tilts away from the truck, it's a chore to get that first a__ cheek on the seat.<<

I'm on the vertically challenged side, so I could really have trouble.

>>When I put my 650 lb. ATV in the back it makes a dramatic difference.<<

Hmm. I could tell Saabgirl that a new ATV would still cost less than 4wd. Wonder if she'll go for it? Thanks, all.

spike50 · December 2004

Called the dealer yesterday and my '00 4x4 is on the list for joints. I can make an appt. anytime w/o first receiving the recall letter. Must have been a slow day because he was implying that he didn't want to field many owner phone calls for him to determine, via computer, if the owner should come in or not.

During our conversation, the service manager noted that he couldn't remember ever seeing a 2WD unit go through the shop. This is the same service manager I was dealing with in '00 too. Kind of interesting if he's remembering right. We're sort of "farmy" around here and maybe that has something to do with it.

spike50 · December 2004

CHECK YOUR TIRE PRESSURE !!!

Over the last 1.5 months, as the night-time air temps have decreased to 10 deg F (going back up some now), I've monitored and added more air to 12 tires on 3 vehicles. Kind of amazing how much the pressure has decreased (Charles' & Boyle's Gas Laws) every two weeks or so as we got deeper into winter.

To get the maximum miles out of your tires - maintain proper tire pressure.

bookitty · December 2004

My response to Bruce is a rousing, "Amen!". My experience in covering the northeastern United States has dictated the use of a part-time 4WD system coupled with a limited slip rear axle and a good dose of common sense. Even things like running boards versus "nerf" type bars make a difference. I have watched SUV drivers in New Hampshire come up to "plane" in deeper snow (good in a boat, not so good in a land based vehicle). The part-time 4WD with LSD and low range has always served me well. Also, I try to not prove a point on snow and ice covered roads and opt for the easiest path. Heck, I even liked manual locking Warn type hubs. I have only owned an automatic transmission on very few 4 WD vehicles where there was no choice, and I was not pleased with their performance on slippery surfaces as they are constantly engaged (complicating braking).

Happy holiday season to all,

Bookitty

roper2 · December 2004

I have a 02 4.7 and changed the plugs an put bosch platinum 4230 in . It runs great and idles good. Has anyone run these and did they hold up ok? The champions did not seem to last very long. thanks

surfla1 · December 2004

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the information. At the very least I am happy it's not a major problem.

Patrick

dustyk · December 2004

At 10712 miles I installed a set of Bosch 4418s in my 2003 4.7. I'm just about ready to turn 36,000 miles and they have performed extremely well judging from the gas mileage. There have been no engine performance issues encountered so far. The 4418 has four electrodes, I think the 4230s are two.

My 4.7 normally idles almost glass-like most of the time. About 2-7% of the time it does it's slightly bumpy thing when the idle speed drops about 50 RPM. I do not believe this is related to the spark plugs, however. This is a symptom exhibited by some 4.7s. It's only slightly annoying, mostly because I know this engine can idle as smooth as a jet. I suspect that this is the result of a slow sensor response somewhere in the system. Switching into the defroster mode raises the idle just enough to eliminate the bumpy idle.

Best regards,

Dusty

roper2 · December 2004

Thanks for the reply dusty.My o2 has 71k hwy mostly its my main vehicle. It has been the best engine I have owned so far.Thought I would try these plugs to see if they last longer than the champions.

roper2 · December 2004

Dusty bye the way when I was changing the plugs I noticed the rubber hose going to the pcv valve was really cracked .When I pulled it off to replace the pcv fellapart also.It pays to look under the hood every now an then even if the engine is bulletproof.

ron35 · December 2004

I'm a little late joining the discussion but I agree with bpeebles. I have a 2K Dak CC with a 4.7 and 5 speed and 59K miles. I have had the Redline MTL installed for 9K miles and haven't experienced any problems shifting into first gear. About the only thing I have noticed is that on really cold mornings the shifting is much smoother from the get go than it was before the Redline MTL was installed.

Ron

atlgaxt · December 2004

Based upon my research of the 2005 Dakota, I think the full time 4wd system has been presented misleadingly and unfairly in several recent posts.

The full time system available (in AWD mode) splits the torque evenly between the front and back. Therefore, you cannot spin only one tire. Also, the full time system has a locking mode in both the high and low range positions, in case driving conditions are severe.

Yes, full time 4wd will increase some wear on your drivetrain and cost you a couple of miles per gallon economy, but it is flat wrong to state that you will wear your tires out twice as fast.

I have a Subaru Forester XT and a Mazda B4000 with part time 4wd. Having experienced both systems on and off road in a variety of conditions, I would gladly trade off some small additional costs to have the security of AWD in my pickup. In wet conditions, which are not appropriate for engaging a part time 4wd system, an engine with torque and light pickup rear end make getting traction a challenge. While a lsd helps some, it also makes the vehicle more likely to fish tail in certain conditions, as it is still easy to break both tires loose. And don't tell me to carry around 500lbs in the back, because that will decrease fuel economy and increase wear and tear also, and is generally a pain in the rear to move in and out of the truck when you need to haul something else.

To me, the Dakota will full time AWD (which can be locked in high and low) seems to be the best of all worlds for a pickup, and should definitely not be maligned as one of the worst and cheapest systems, because this is just plain not true. In fact, the full time AWD is one of the factors that is keeping the Dakota in my consideration for my next truck. And besides, if for some reason you still hate AWD, you can still get a part time system on your Dakota if you so wish.

Not trying to start a flame war here, but we are relying upon each others input. Let's try to make sure what gets posted is true. Otherwise, the value of these discussion groups goes down the drain.

Happy Holidays!

spike50 · December 2004

So far, we haven't heard from anyone who actually owns / drives a AWD Dakota (needs to be someone with several winters of experience). It seems to me that we need the straight skinny from someone with that unique experience.

I've noticed that every manufacturer can offer mechanically different AWD / 4WD / traction control systems and then their marketing departments call them whatever to make it sell. This can and does generate a lot of misunderstandings by us the end-users.

Let's hear from an AWD Dakota driver - quick.

sunburn · December 2004

Got my new upper ball joints installed today. Dropped my Dak off at around 10 am, it was done by noon. I'll have to listen for about a week to see if the "clunkiness" from the front end is gone.

On the subject of the AWD system available on the Dakota. I have a co-worker who has an 02 QC with AWD. Last winter I asked him if he could spin both the front and rear wheels simultaneously in slippery conditions while in AWD (not 4WD Hi/Lo) and he said yes. That would tend to indicate that the power is split between the front and rear. Somewhere, I vaguely recall reading that the torque split was something like 60% rear/40% front. But, I am not 100% certain as to the accuracy of my memory. New Venture Gear doesn't have much info on the AWD transfer case on their website.

bpeebles · December 2004

Lets not forget that I have studied the SHOP MANUAL that shows the working innards of the xfer case. I can say for CERTAIN that the 2000 Dak has a simple open differential in the xfer case.

We now need somone with a 2005 shop manual (with engineering training) that can interperet the engineering drawings..... anyone?

It is a nice story that somone can SAY that they can "spin" this many or that many tires... but I rely on true engineering and not what people say.

BTW: There is no question that so-called "full time" drive systems will promote increased tire (and driveline) wear. Anyone that beleives otherwise does not undestand the physics behind how vehicle drive systems are designed and react under operating conditions.

Also, I personally beleive that losing 2-4 MPG is a VERY UNDESIRANBLE tradeoff. I have 'run the numbers' with several variables (tire cost, driveline cost, fuel consumption... etc) over 150K miles of owhership and I cannot justify the monatary costs of a "full time" drive system.

As I have detailed in past postings, my factory-orderd 4WD dakota with the options I selected has the best of both worlds. (reasonable 21MPG in 2WD while having tremendus tractive abilities in knee-high snow.) Even here in Vermont, I do not need to enguage 4WD more than a month out of each year.

The bottom line is that each person needs to decide for themselves what they are comfortable with to help them drive under slippery conditions. .... Just please do not think that 4WD will help in any way while driving over 40MPH. There are other forces of physics that overshadow any forward tractive requirements of a motor vehicle at those speeds. (like braking and lateral traction)

A 2WD vehicle with "Hakkapeliitta WR" tires on all 4 wheels is MUCH safer in the snow than any 4WD with "all season" tires. If one is looking for safety, the proper tires are a much better choice than any 4WD system ever invented.

http://www.etires.com/nokianbrand.html

SURPRISE: 4 wheel drive systems ONLY help you get moving. Cars have always had "4 wheel braking". Lateral traction cannot be altered with any drive system. (only tire choice can affect that)

spike50 · January 2005

The dealer replaced the upper ball joints and checked the "tow" on the front end. They shared the info with me and noted that it wasn't a "full" alignment because one of these: camber, caster, etc. wasn't measured - just tow-in.

No clunking and it seems to be steering fine.

When I went to pick it up, the service guys were in the beginning stages of "tearing their hair out" with scheduling since more owners had gotten their letters and calling.

badass_bob · January 2005

Spike 50 asked me to speak up in this group, so i will throw in my (2) cents worth...I was a devote reader to the quad group in 00 and am back after a 4 year hiatus.

I have owned/driven both the 00 Dakota Quad cab in both part-time and full-time(AWD) versions

1st Dakota Quad--> Special Order(New)

                  '00 Quad Sport+ 4x4(part-time)

                   4.7L, 5-sp, 3.55, Anti-Spin

                   Wheel/tire option with 31x10.5

                   **(1) winter of snow driving @ about 8"

                    [T-Boned some A**Hole who pulled

                     out in front of me and totaled

                     @ 17,000 miles]

Current Quad--> Bought used with 3,000 miles @ dealer

               '00 SLT+ 4x4(Full-Time)

                4.7L, Auto(multipseed)

                3.55, Anti-Spin

                   Wheel/tire option with 31x10.5

                **Currently 52,000-mi &

                (3) winters of snow driving

                with anywhere from 1"-12" snow

MPG Comparison

---------------

-- 4x4(PartTime) 5-sp = +/- 19.5 mpg

-- 4x4(FullTime) MultiAuto = +/- 15.5 mpg

I have a '00 shop manual, and am a registered P.E.(structural) who can read tech drawings and agree with bpeoples that the dakota AWD system uses an OPEN front differential. From what i recall when i ordered my first quad, the AWD option was only +/- $100 so it can't be too much extra equipment. I'm not sure how much it is now.

As far as what i have been able to gather, i have noticed no difference or advantage while driving on dry and wet road conditions except the loss of 3.5-mpg (some of which is do the the auto). I have, however been able to tell an EXTREME difference when in snow(loose powder, packed, slush, etc) and deep/loose mud. With the part-time truck, unless it was locked in 4wd, it was squirrly(the antispin only helped marginally). With the AWD truck, the normal AWD setting(un-locked) was all that was needed 90% of the time except when the chassis/bumper was dragging/plowing snow.

Honestly, unless you are somewhere where snow layed on the roads 2-4 months out of the year, i would go with the part time. The AWD option was not something i was especially looking for(actually i almost did not buy the truck because it had it) because of the extra wear-and-tear on the driveline components, not to mention the extra effort needed to pull and turn all the parts/pieces ALL THE TIME, which i notice everytime i pull into a gas station. Believe me its not driving style because i have been accused of driving like a 90 year old many times.

If you live somewhere like i do in rural central North Carolina, where it might snow 3-weeks out of the year, your biggest bang-for-the-buck option would be the anti-spin and the ABS with the part-time set-up. I also preferred the 5-sp to the multispeed auto, just because i like to be able to determine my own shiftpoints. And trust me, my manual shifting was allot smoother than the multispeed auto most of the time.

Also, if you do live somwhere where it snows often and deep, when you put sidesteps on, go with the tubular nerfs and do not put the solid extruded type. Its like bolting a set of skis to your trucK!!!

I am of the opinion that the best thing to have in inclement weather is COMMON SENSE!! You cannot make up for commonsense by buying any option or adding any aftermarket gadget to your truck. bottom line is that it doesnt matter what kind of vehicle you are in or how it is equipped, if you drive like an idiot, you will end up in the ditch or worse yet kill someone else

hope this helps

PS: if you read this far, i appriciate it.

Chad(North Carolina)

Dodge Dakota - General Topic

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