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Dodge Dakota: Problems & Solutions
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Comments
I have been "reading" spark plugs since I was about 12 years old. The ability to pull a sparkplug from an engine and scrutinize the tip to determine the running-conditions of an engine is somthing I honed from years of "reading" plugs from 100s of engines. (Rich/lean, timing early/retarded, leaky valveseals... etc)
The "heat range" of a sparkplug is extremely important. Ideally, we want the tip of the plug to be hot enough to burn off the crud without being so hot as to overheat and melt. This is accomplished with several design features including the length of the insulator (longer runs hotter) and the use of copper inside (very good heat conductor).
The Japanese (NGK and NipponDenso) started the copper-core plug designs back in the 1970s. Using a long insulator with copper-core.... they were able to build a sparkplug that came up to temp quickly but did not overheat. This is known as a "wide heat range" sparkplug.
Bosch invented the original sparkplug and has the very best products. They use high-grade nickle plating, high-purity ceramic insulators, specially-bonded copper cores and very pure platinum cernter electrodes.
Here is some additional data about
Iridium Power. I read this as telling me that the inidium plugs have the ability to survive the punishment of high-compression, high-boost and high-voltage ignition systems. The 4.7L V8 does not fall into this catagory.
It was a very difficult decision to make but I felt that the dak was going to be a huge money pit later on in life and after the warranty ran out, I predicted I would see more repair bills that I could imagine.
I had scheduled an appointment for next week to check what else, rough 2-3 upshift and clunk in the front end. ALl last week I thought and thought and thought.....maybe I might be wrong here. But I've had WAY too many problems in 26k than is considered acceptable. I got a good deal and I guess the Dak came thru when it counted on the finance end as I got $2100 more for it than what I actually owed.
This is my first japanese vehicle so I'm going into this with an open mind. Obivously, all other factors being equal, I would much rather buy american any day. But when I am faced with repair bills AND a monthly payment, well, something there is simply out of whack.
Believe me, I did not take this lightly nor was it a snap decision. But lets recount what I've had to deal with since day one and tell me if what I did was right.
....4 sets of rotors and drums
....3 tries to get the thing to idle correctly, fixed on third try...third time was a charm.
....2 reacalls.
....faulty camshaft reference sensor and one stall.
....faulty delay wiper module.
....rough shifting 45RFE that was never fixed...I had to literaly argue with the dealer that it was a problem....funny, I am the guy paying 22K and I had to argue to get them to realize it was a problem. I guess the customer wasn't right in this instance.
.....clunk in front end that was fixed and stayed fixed for two weeks and then came back.
...."snapping" coming from rear leaf springs that required new clamps and shims to correct.
....two broken and one "lost" clip on the air cleaner housing. As I write this, the other clip is missing....again.
....mysterious "popping" and "snapping" in low speed turns.
Bear in mind, this truck has never hauled appreciable weight in the bed nor has it towed a boat, camper, or other trailer.
True, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't life threatening. But if I had to pay for all that, it would have run into the thousands already. This all happened in 2 years and 26K miles. I expeceted more, much more, and got less.
So, I did what I had to do. Its a shame because DC really has a good looking vehicle. Its just too bad cost cutting was done in areas that never should have seen an accountants knife.
What is ironic is this. DC cut costs in product development but spends hundreds of millions in incentives and zero percent financing to bring people back to the dealer. Something just doesn't seem right there does it? But who am I anyway, really, just nothing more than a paying customer who today voted with his feet and pocketbook.
Good luck to all here. I know most of you love your Daks and don't let my posts influence you to think otherwise.
I have gotten to know a fine group of people here, even bpeelbes when he is not insulting and "talking down" to others. Practice your method of delivery bpeebles and more folks will listen to you and respect what you have to say. Ahasher, your idle shall be good and firm and never a stall for you ever. SOmeday we'll have to hook up and have a brew or two and just shoot the breeze. Henne and his whiney hiney, I hope all the best and also hope your hiney stays quiet and does the job.
Bookitty is a true gent and may your Dak outlast all of us put together.
ANd to others whom I cannot recall, good luck and best wishes to all of you and your families and your Daks.
I honestly believe I got a bad one because too many of you here have too many good comments about your Daks. Its too bad I was the one who got the Friday build vehicle but hey, thats life I guess.
To DC, the collusus wanna be..take this to heart. Unless you radically change your proceeses and ideas, you will certaily face doom. I would have stuck by you and your Dakota, but your dealer basically gave up on it and me a long time ago. I gave up this past week. Put the beancounters back in the accounting dept where they belong. Let the engineers do their job and make a good product that all can be proud of. Put good parts on it, stand behind it, and the world will beat a path to your door. QUit with the insane cost cutting and instead focus on making a better mousetrap. You have no choice because you cannot afford to pay people to buy cars and trucks and jeeps and minivans forever. The numbers simply won't let you.
May everyone have a happy and successful ownership with their Daks and god bless all of you here.
Mopar67
Final post in Dodge Dakota town hall.
Bookitty
I have owned several 'Asian' makes of vehicle and they all went well over 150,000 miles with little fuss. (My daughters Honda is over 204,000 miles and still starts every morning.) Body rust is the only problem I see with 'Asian' vehicles. All of mine were running fine when I got rid of them.... they were just rust-buckets.
Please remember to visit us occasionally and let us know how the Suzuki Vitara compares to the Dak.
So, I recently inherited a Dakota from my late father and have a number of questions. I must preface by saying this will be my second American made vehicle. The first was an '87 Pontiac Bonneville I bought in 1991 and the engine caught on fire at about 80,000 miles. Last US vehicle I bought. I currently have a '89 Toyota Camry (everything original) with 287,000 and looks and drives just like I bought it in 1996 with 93,000 miles and have only put minimal money into it since for normal wear and tear.
So, this Dakota now has 18,000 miles and is a 2001 SLT model. It is a 2wd, club cab, 4.7L V8 with an automatic 45RFE tranny. It has the Heavy Duty Service Group and a class IV Reciever.
So here come the questions. My father was sold on the synthetic oils, and used Quaker State Full Synthetic 5w-30 with every oil change. I always put the cheapest 10w-30 in my car and no probs for 287,000 so I just had the dealer do an oil change and let them put whatever it is they use.
Any thoughts on the Synthetics?
Also, at low speed, over bumps, there is a "mouse type" squeek coming from behind the drivers seat somewhere. People riding with me have asked me what that is and I have no clue. Doesn't bother me, just wondered. I figure it is somewhere between the bed of the truck and the cab.
Also, at 14,000 miles both headlights burned out?
Is that normal?
Is there a grill that I can buy to put over the foglights? They really take a beating and crack (I don't drive off road).
My final question. The oil pressure gauge stays at the first HIGH mark on the gauge. It never goes higher than the mark, always sits right on it. The dealer said these are high compression engines and that is ok. I figured it should stay in the middle, but I just don't know.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!
I must say that I like the seats. Very comfortable for my 6'1 frame and the power of the 4.7L is nice. I like the truck, but have concernes over reliability. I can't afford a money pit right now, and wonder if I should sell it. I'd like to keep though.
Thanks!!
NWDodgeguy
Thanks
John
Just think it thru is about all the advice I can offer then go with what works best for you.
I've only got 210 miles and three days under my belt with it. So here goes should anyone be interested. I have a built in bias for Mopar products so bear with me.
Climate control operation: Dak wins hands down. Suzuki, like many Asian makes, has too many quirks like bleeding residual air from the panel vents even though you may select floor, windshield or windshield/floor. The temp and fan sliders are not lit so in the darkness, you have to grope a little
Headlight clarity and pattern: Advantage slightly to Suzuki especially on high beams, the pattern is more spread out and very even when compared to the Dak. Downside, side to side adjustment is NOT possible! Why? Dunno, but if this thing takes a hit in the front end, the bodyshop better get out their micrometers to make it all fit properly.
Engine: Well, gosh, I am comparing a hamster to a thoroughbred so I'll focus here on service. It runs an aluminum block and head with chain driven DOHC on a cross flow type head. Engine mgmt is by Suzuki with port injection and EGR. Like our daks, the coils mount directly to the plugs with one screw and changing them should be a breeze. NGK or Denso plugs are recommended by Suzuki. CLutch has hydraulic activation (not good!). The major electical components are Denso (like the Daks) and thats good. The oil filter is in an absurd location right above the frame member. Thanks to the guy who managed to find that location for a filter, I'd like to meet him someday.
AC is a rather small compressor by .......well I don't really know cause I cannot see the tag too well. Sanden or Denso perhaps? The ac has its own electric fan that kicks on when the AC clutch is engaged. Oh, and for those who don't like the fan clutch noise on a Dak when cold, take this to heart my friends. The Vitara does the exact same thing! SO, don't fault your dak too much on this ok? Its all part of the cooling process.
Interior amenities: I was more at home in the Dak. Apparently, someone in Japan thought it nice to include SQUARE cupholders that just don't work with round containers! OIl pressure and battery gauges are strangely absent here too. tsk tsk...bad bad bad move Suzuki! The radio came with a single CD player and it works fine but I like the Dak setup better where I chose whether or not the time or frequency displayed. Here, the time will be displayed whether or not you want it.
Other ammenities: Advantage to the Dak slightly. Underhood light on Vitara, not present nor is it an option. No glove box light either. And the prop rod for the hood is cheesy in my opinion.
MPG: Advantage Viatara only by virtue of a much smaller engine. But it supposedly gets only 22 city 25 hiway. i don't see this as an advantage since fuel mileage was never an issue on the Dak for my anyway.
Carrying capactiy issues; Remember, this is a mini ute therefore ya just can't put aunt martha in the back and off you go. Advantage to Dakota in total WEIGHT carrying ability and advantage to Vitara in useability. The seats fold down, and I can fit two medium size dog cages back there for hunting purposes. However, a gun rack is simply out of the question as there isn't a good place to mount one. Shucks!
Ride and handling: Advantage Suzuki again by virtue of smaller size. I thought the Dak did well in that aspect but the Vitara is more nimble and easiler to live with day to day in this regard.
Transmission: Not a fair comparision here since I had an auto in the Dak and this is a five speed. I willsay however, that I am done with the 45RFE and all its quirks and issues.
Design, overall: Yes, bpeebles, your voice and words hovered nearby when I went shopping. I visualized you saying, look for a full box frame and a manual 4wd and five speed. I learned and did just that. So that eliminated the CRV the RAV4, the KIA, and the Escape quickly. ALso bpeebles you know when they ask, "What will it take to get you to buythe car today"? Well, I got a free FSM, 2 free oil changes, and free floor mats! Yes, I think I did learn something here.
Ok, the Vitara is body-on-frame with fully boxed full length frame members. Steering is rack and pinion with the rack mounted up front like the dak on the crossmember. The 4wd is indeed mechanical, which is fine by me. I think the low ratio is someting like 1.71 to 1??? Not sure of the exact numbers but a brief test showed it to be about as low as the dak was. There is some undercoating in key areas like wheel wells and such. Brake rotors are approx same thickness but same diameter as the DAK! And this is a much smaller vehicle. Hey, Chrysler, are you reading this?
The GM influence (CAMI is a joint venture tween Suzuki and GM in Canada) is readily apparent in the feel of the brake pedal. Its mushy, provides little feedback, and likes to pauses before the binders start their work. At least the rotors haven't warped............yet. So in terms of brake feel and modulation, advantage goes to Dak.
Emergency brake is a handle in the console.
Ride: Advantage to Vitara slightly. It bounds and pitches a lot less than the Dak, but I don't fault the Dak for the way it rode. I bought the Dak as a truck for god sakes and yes, I fully expected it to ride like a damn truck. All I am doing is simply saying the Vitara does ride better and corners slightly better. Simple as that.
Conclusion: Well there is none since I only had the Vitara since saturday and I had the Dak for two full years. I'll have to get back to you on a long term evaluation. WHat I like is the lack of mechanical issues that ruined my experience with the Dak. So, we'll have to just drive this thing and see what happens. There are some areas where the Dak and other american cars do well,such as climate control operation where the Asian makes just don't get it. But overall, I am pleased with my choice, very sad and unhappy that I did this out of necessity, not necessiarly by choice. But hey, I'll get over that and move on.
Good luck and god bless everyone here on town hall forum.
"input" and paid dearly for it. So Ben, keep reading and stay in touch.
Bookitty
And, drum roll please, I subscribed to ALLDATA for TSB. I can for one year only, look up any TSB for the 2000 Dak. SO if anyone has a dealer, like mine, that just doesn't understand and doesn not want to search a TSB, ya'll post here, I'll read and respond in kind.
I figure its the least I can do to help others here who might have issues they cannot resolve with the dealer.
Between the talent here and some detective work, I think collectively, we can be as good or better than any CR, C&D, and BBB.
We decided to stay with Mopar and ordered a Neon R/T but will purchase the wrap around DC warranty which covers everything like the factory 3 year 36,000 warranty. There is a $100 deductible and covers the little bugger for 7 years/100,000 miles (Best deal I found on this so far is $1040.00 for those interested).
Your problems with brakes as well as others has caused me to do a lot of web site reading. One thing I have picked up about disc brakes is quite a few people suggest that you never turn the rotors. If they are scored enough to require re surfacing or warped just replace them.
We also talked about using a torque wrench in earlier posts and that came up quite often as well.
Many other brands are having similar problems as the Dakotas and to me one common thread is the majority of the brake warping problems are the discs that do not have the integral hub/bearing races. The center section of our discs appear rather thin and I wonder if the flanges on the hubs are warping and over time the new discs are conforming to the warped flanges and in turn warping themselves.
If there are others having to replace discs over and over maybe having the hub itself checked for runout would be a good idea.
Well anyway you hopefully are rid of brake and transmission problems, hope you don't get bored with your new ride. Rick
My intermittent wipers have a mind of their own. It has been this way since I bought my 2000 Dak. but seems to be getting worse lately. (2wipes-long pause, 1wipe-short pause,another wipe-long pause, no wipe-another pause, 2wipes-short pause...etc etc)
I see that there is a TSB 08-022-01 intermittent wipers-eratic operation
Can you look up the text of this TSB for me?
Thanks!
If I recall, there is a device called the Central TImer MOdule that has some input in the operation of this wipers. Mine did this less than 30 days after delivery and the switch itself (wiper) was replaced and the problem went away.
I'll check the TSB updates for further devlopments.
Next............
Addendum..........DUH.....would help if I read your whole post....my fault.
Ok the details for some reason on how to do the repair are lacking. But here it is.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Intermittent wipers may operate erratically. When the intermittent wipers are set, the wipe interval may speed up or change to constant wipe.
DIAGNOSIS:
It the condition is present or customers indicate that condition has occurred as described above, perform the Repair Procedure. The parts package contains detailed instructions. Install the jumper harness using the procedures outlined in the instruction sheet.
Thats it...the TSB does not give any more details.
For Iowabigguy......yes, the hampster really runs hard at hiway speeds. Matter of fact, per 'Zuki, max HP comes at 6 grand.......whew! Thats a lot of hamspter feed. Below 3 grand, its a dog for sure though. Thank god for manual shift......!
Yes, I did a lot of checking on rotors and what I found dovetails exactly with your post. Bookitty advised I get a torque wrench and I will study the FSM on the 'zuki and see what the lug nut torque specs are. Plus, I plan on personally supervising every tire rotation and brake inspection and if I even see an impact wrench within 10 feet of my vehicle......well......lets not go there shall we?
Ok, Free TSBs to all takers, step right up!
Thanks all, I'm gonna hang on the the Dak thru it's warranty period and hope to have a better experience with American made vehicles. I like the truck, just don't trust the dealer. Had a few compliments on it. No one ever complimented the trusty Camry. LOL.
Al
Relax, you're oil pressure is good to go.
Thanks
John
Hope to see more of you.
Robert
Any info greatly appreciated.
Robert
I hope this helps ease your mind.
Robert
The close clearances in the 4.7L V8 hemi engine are designed for the 5w30 oil.
The dealer that told you that a high-compression engine has somthing to do with oil pressure is just plain wrong. There is no conneciton whatsoever between the "squish-factor" and the oiling system.
BTW...MOPAR67... it is not the tolerances that are close... it is the clearances that are close. ("tolerances" are just a delta from nominal measurement specifications) But I understand what you are trying to say.
I guess it wont hurt to ask the dealer if it is covered.
After going through 2 sets of rotors for my wife's car (in two years), because of warpage, I ordered a set of crossed drilled rotors from a Canadian ompany which advertised in the back of Road and Track. I have had them for over 8 years with absolutely no trouble and my brake pads are lasting more than twice as long as before. I'm not sure if they have them for a Dakota but I used to be on the Ram mailing list and they had them for the 1500, 2500 and 3500.
Several guys on the Ram list got them and were very pleased with them. If anyone does try them please let me know if they do have them, cause when I do have to replace the rotors on my new Dak that is definitely the way I'll go. They did go for about a hundred bucks but I believe you get what you
pay for. The company is:
Best Auto Parts
1537 Startop
Glocester, ON K1B3W5
Phone (613) 746-2378
They require specific info on your truck, so make sure you know what axle you have.
They have no email link but you can call at the above number, or fax at
613 746-2497 Attn Dan.
Ron35
last rebld was done by their shop expert????
My new QUAD is built and waiting on a train ride to so cal.
thanks again for everyone's input.
Lee
A good fairly accurate gauge is far better than idiot lights.
Thanks again.
Al
Shawn
Thanks
Shawn
I was saddened to read your goodbye, but I see that you won't be abandoning the Dakota gang after all! :-)
Good luck with your Vitara!
KarenS
Host
Owners Clubs
take your time. I went with the Bosch +4, 4418s.
Beautiful plugs! I was going to purchase the
Autolite APP5224 but the 2 part stores I checked
didn't have them, glad I went with the Bosch!
Seems like the cold start "studders" are gone?
Thanks for the info, bpeeples,,,,,,,,
MM
Ron35
Robert
On another note, I recall there have been some postings here about the fan roar on the Dak. Recall my Dak did this too. So does the "samauri hamster" usually when the engine is cold and after a hot start. So, don't despair friends, this too is not only unique to the Dakota.
I used anti seize on threads, although I had no problems with removal, as well as silicone grease on the "o" rings. Idle seem a little smoother but it is probably just the difference between plugs with 15,000 miles and new plugs.
I experienced the same bracket breaking as ron35. I just used some small nylon ty-wraps to secure them in place. Glad I didn't bother buying a replacement only to have it break as well.
I also did my second oil change using Mobile 1. The oil only had 3500 miles use but was really dirty looking. There has been no appreciable oil consumption in the 3500 miles using Mobile 1 however it also gets the yellow goop in the oil filler just like dino oil. Rick
I priced some online and holy cow, I'm looking at something like 45 bucks just for four!
Yeeeeeesh. I wonder if plain old platinum would work here?
ANyway, I am sorry to hear you got shorted on the gaskets. Unless the plug is a taper seat design like on GM products and some Fords, you should have a gasket there.
AUtolite should, just for goodwill, send you some platinums. But then again, they have to consider shareholder value so good luck on that one!
Lets see, 8 gaskets at a penny each.....hmmmmmm they should probably get a forum of shareholders together and see if they can all chip in a little here............
Thanks
This is a classic example of how not to win customer loyalty. If they had sent me a set of plugs I most likely would continue using their product. Now I never will but I'm only one small consumer I guess! Rick
Nonetheless, I have 2 years and 26K of driving experience under my belt and have been asked by Karen S and Bookitty to contribute experiences and some technical stuff when necessary.
SOrry to hear bout Autolite but I don't blame you. They cannot afford to make good on their screwup then they don't need you to spend any more money on their products.
NGK seems like a well made plug, albeit expensive. I never had too much luck with Champions or AC (unless it was dads GM stuff). Although a Homelite chainsaw runs pretty well with a cj8 champ in there!
Keep in mind that the POWER (+12V) is ALWAYS sent to the headlamp bulbs and the GROUND is switched at the dimmer switch. (Grounding the proper wire completes the circuit thus illuminating the proper filiment within the bulb) You must take this into account as you design your emergency light system.
The LOW beam ground wire color is "VT/WT"
The HIGH beam ground wire color is "RD/OR"
The constant POWER (+12V) to the headlights is;
LEFT = "RD/TN" (thru fuse 'B' in the PDC)
RIGHT = "RD/LG"(thru fuse 'G' in the PDC)
(PDC is the "Power Distribution Center" under the hood.)
Just a quick question. When stopped and the engine running, my Dak rumbles or vibrates so that you feel it in the cab. It's not a consistant rumble, kinda gets worse and then settles a bit and gets worse. It's not a big deal, but just wanted to know if if that's a normal thing and the rest of you guys get that. The Dak is a 4.7 V8. I've never had a vehicle do that, but then I've never had a V8 or a truck before. Thanks.
To date, spectral analysis of the oil, done with every oil change, since the 10K mark has not indicated abnormal metal wear and there's no smoking exhaust but there is definitely more vibration and noise. I've also check the exhaust system and it has not shifted and is not in contact with the floor boards, etc. - all is normal. Maybe something bent and that would explain the vibration with a lack of metal wear. Trips on relatively flat terrain, cruise-controlled at sub-70 mph produce 20-22 mpg so that part of it seems fine.
Just replaced the factory treads on my 00,quad,4.7,5 spd...at roughly 39k. Put on Dayton Timberline A/T's....Now with a thousand miles on them . had heavy rains and they performed very well.Road noise is minimal and mpg's seem right about where they were with the 215x75's.
so far all else is ok.
Sorry to hear rumors of the dakota demise ...kindah following the path of the toyota T 100.