I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

stickguy · November 2020

add me to the lower max on the speedo crowd. 120 is still more than I would ever come near. and 160 in a minivan or CUV that tops out at least 40 MPH below that is just silly, since you end up with the range you actually drive in so crammed in there isn't room for numbers.

I wonder if any of the newer configurable digital dash displays allow you to pick how high you want it to go, so also how spaced out you can make them.

xwesx · November 2020

andre1969 said:
I think "poor" is relative these days when it comes to reliability. I seem to recall about 20 years ago, cars were getting good enough that they changed their "worse than average" rating to "fair". I'm just going on memory here, but I seem to recall that for the various categories (engine, transmission, electrical, brakes, etc) the breakdown was something like:
1-3% have problems: Much Better Than Average
3-5%: Better Than Average
5-9%: Average
9-15%: Worse Than Average/Fair
15% or worse: Much Worse than Average.

So in theory, one car could have, say, a 4.9% problem rate, while another could have a 9.1%. In my opinion, that's not a HUGE difference, although I guess you could argue that the 9.1% is almost twice as likely to have that given failure.

I'm sure! Back in the '70s, "Much Better Than Average was <50%.

xwesx · November 2020

roadburner said:
The domestic cars that I'd consider buying are the Camaro 2SS, Challenger SP/HC, Charger SP/HC, and Mustang GT. As for trucks and SUVs, I like the Wrangler, Gladiator, and Grand Cherokee(Trailhawk or Trackhawk). If I was forced to buy a full size picture it would be a Ram- preferably a TRX.

I think I'm seeing a pattern here....

xwesx · November 2020

fintail said:
Nice dry day here, but nothing really rare on the road today - maybe old cars hibernate for the winter here. Saw a decent 80s Ciera and a 560 SEL.

Yeah, owners probably don't have their machines on speed dial like they do over in the Seattle area! In the west, they must be ready to pounce on any decent day. In Spokane, much of the summer is an "any time you want to take it out, take it out" affair.

fintail · November 2020

I need to get over that - "it's dry, no rain in the forecast, let's go!". Here, once winter passes, chances are it will be dry every weekend, no need to check the weather days in advance, and make plans just to go for a little drive.

xwesx said:

Yeah, owners probably don't have their machines on speed dial like they do over in the Seattle area! In the west, they must be ready to pounce on any decent day. In Spokane, much of the summer is an "any time you want to take it out, take it out" affair.

uplanderguy · November 2020

I've mentioned this, but there's a leftover pearlescent white Impala Premier at a dealer near me. I can't imagine why anyone would think they need more luxury than that, and I never got into the perceived 'prestige' of one nameplate over another, although I understand when one make has mechanical things not available in a lesser brand. I like the chromed spear down the side...lesser Impalas look naked there to my eyes. The Buick I think didn't look as nice, purely subjective, although the Buick's styling was distinct from the Impala's.

RE.: Mile-long rear decks--I always thought this specific year and model had the most out-of-sorts front-to-rear proportions of any car. Something about the pillared sedan roofline for some reason adds to it I think. Well, forget it--my cheapo laptop can't copy photos, and my work computer is prohibiting me from going to the site I want. But it's a '62 Pontiac Star Chief four-door sedan (not hardtop).

Talking Buicks a minute ago reminds me that I liked the looks of the Lucerne, and I remember they could be had with a V8. Seems like I never saw a bunch of them. Whatever trim level had the chrome strip at the bottom of the decklid, I would've had to have

ab348 · November 2020

uplanderguy said:

RE.: Mile-long rear decks--I always thought this specific year and model had the most out-of-sorts front-to-rear proportions of any car. Something about the pillared sedan roofline for some reason adds to it I think. Well, forget it--my cheapo laptop can't copy photos, and my work computer is prohibiting me from going to the site I want. But it's a '62 Pontiac Star Chief four-door sedan (not hardtop).

Here you are.

explorerx4 · November 2020

I guess Harry's Garage is the opposite of Hoovies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n46p3JKjwE

andre1969 · November 2020

Here's a side view of a '62 Star Chief 4-door...

It's a somewhat rough example, but I think the side angle shows perfectly, how they tacked the extra length on. They added three inches of wheelbase, and you can see it all in the rear. They simply pulled the rear axle back, but kept the passenger cabin the same size as the other B-bodies, so you ended up with 3 extra inches of metal between the rear door and rear wheel opening. 2-door models can get away with this trick better than 4-door models, in my opinion, because the section of quarter panel is longer, to begin with. If you stretch something from, say, 2 inches to 5, you're going to notice. But from, say, 22 inches to 25, not quite as glaring.

The 4-door sedan might look a bit more exaggerated too, because the C-pillar on the 4-door hardtop was thicker, so it extended a bit further back.

A '62 Catalina is 212.3" long, while a Star Chief is 218.6. So they probably tacked on a few inches out back, in addition to the wheelbase stretch. So overall, you end up with 6.3" more rear deck on the Star Chief, compared to the Catalina.

They were still doing that wheelbase trick in '67. My Catalina is 215.6", on a 121" wb, while a Bonneville is 222.6", on a 124" wb. I think the extra length works better by this time though, because the cars themselves were styled more chunky, had thicker C-pillars, etc. There's been a few times when my car would be parked next to a '67 Bonneville convertible, at the GM show in Carlisle. It's funny how, while my car looks big enough, on its own, when I see it next to that Bonneville, it looks kind of stubby. Pardon the pun, "trunk-ated"

kyfdx · November 2020

andre1969 said:
Here's a side view of a '62 Star Chief 4-door...

It's a somewhat rough example, but I think the side angle shows perfectly, how they tacked the extra length on. They added three inches of wheelbase, and you can see it all in the rear. They simply pulled the rear axle back, but kept the passenger cabin the same size as the other B-bodies, so you ended up with 3 extra inches of metal between the rear door and rear wheel opening.

The 4-door sedan might look a bit more exaggerated too, because the C-pillar on the 4-door hardtop was thicker, so it extended a bit further back.

That's the first car I remember in my family. My mother's '62 Star chief in sky blue. She drove it until swapping it for a '67 Bonneville.

uplanderguy · November 2020

Thank you for the pics, gentlemen.

The Interceptor reminds me in a way or two of an Avanti. Back window primarily of course.

uplanderguy · November 2020

andre, we've discussed this before, but I was always impressed with the choices in the Pontiac full-size line in the '66-68 era, probably. The Ventura Custom option on the Catalina, got you the Star Chief/Executive interior on the shorter wheelbase. I mean other than wheelbase, the seating trim was identical.

I do sort-of like the '66 Star Chief Executive, which they offered in a two-door hardtop for the first time, and it was the last time the "Star Chief" name was used. The cloth interior was nice but not available on the two-door hardtops, sadly.

andre1969 · November 2020

It's kind of funny, looking at those '62 Star Chiefs, and thinking that they're "only" 218.6" long. While hardly petite, the styling makes them look even longer than that, to me. To put it in perspective, my Grandmom's '85 LeSabre was about 218" long. I think my '79 5th Ave is something like 221.5". But, those newer cars have protruding 5 mph bumpers, that add to their length, without necessarily making the cars themselves look bigger. The newer ones are also probably taller, especially the Buick, which again, is going to possibly make it look proportionally shorter. Oh, and the modern cars have front-ends that are more prow-shaped, rather than flat-fronted. So while they might be long, overall, the tapered look can make them appear a bit smaller.

I have a feeling that if GM wanted to make that '62 Star Chief pass those 5 mph bumper standards, it would probably add about 10 inches to its length. Although, I guess they could have tried a rear-end treatment similar to what GM did with some of their Electras, Ninety-Eights, and Caddies in that crash-bumper era...have the actual metal part of the rear quarter panel stop early, and have the back part end-capped with flexible plastic. You'd probably lose some trunk space in the process.

uplanderguy · November 2020

The only thing I can say I like about a '62 Star Chief sedan, styling-wise (not to say they weren't good cars, not at all), is I do like how the Bonneville and Star Chief got the extra section of taillight on the bottom compared to the Catalina and Grand Prix.

fintail · November 2020

Did someone say long rears?

andre1969 · November 2020

One other advantage to the Star Chief and Bonneville, during those years...it got the more reliable, old-school, 4-speed Hydramatic. The Catalina and Grand Prix got the Slim Jim.

Overall I'm not a huge fan of the '62 Pontiacs. It's not that I hate them, per se...it's just that I like the '61 and '63 styles a lot better. Especially, the '61. I think if there's one year I'd ditch my '67 for, it would be a '61. Although, I'd imagine the nicely maintained examples of the more desireable body styles are a third mortgage nowadays.

kyfdx · November 2020

uplanderguy said:
The only thing I can say I like about a '62 Star Chief sedan, styling-wise (not to say they weren't good cars, not at all), is I do like how the Bonneville and Star Chief got the extra section of taillight on the bottom compared to the Catalina and Grand Prix.

Duly noted as a five year old... lol

uplanderguy · November 2020

I know this shouldn't have anything to do with it, but that '69 Chrysler looks even longer without the vinyl top! I always thought those cars just looked enormous next to GM's of the same year.

Where I really notice it is at the bottom of the rear quarters, behind the wheel openings. After owning Larks for over 30 years, that area on the Chrysler (and Star Chief) really slap me in the face.

A guy wrote in our club magazine once that that area in an Avanti, which is short and rounded, is almost sexual when you drag a wet chamois over it, LOL.

andre1969 · November 2020

kyfdx said:

uplanderguy said:
The only thing I can say I like about a '62 Star Chief sedan, styling-wise (not to say they weren't good cars, not at all), is I do like how the Bonneville and Star Chief got the extra section of taillight on the bottom compared to the Catalina and Grand Prix.
Duly noted as a five year old... lol

That, and it's nice how they also got the chrome (or aluminum?) trim piece in between those extra taillights. It dressed up the rear pretty nicely.

ab348 · November 2020

Man, this a seriously nice car. Love these.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-buick-riviera-30/

Michaell · November 2020

Every time I see one of those, I think of the movie Road House.

andre1969 · November 2020

That's a GREAT Buick! What's the phone number? 555-7617?

I never was that crazy about the exposed headlights on the '63-64 versions, but for '65 I think they got the styling perfect! Beautiful color, too.

I like that style of vinyl. It almost looks like leather at a quick glance.

uplanderguy · November 2020

The '65 is the best-looking Riviera to my eyes. The inboard headlights were gone, and the plain taillights were replaced by those nice-looking bumper ones; also, the fake scoops on the rear quarters were removed, and I believe it was the first year for the factory chrome road wheels on the Riv.

Taillights in the bumper always reminds me of my Dad coming home from work and saying "I saw a truckload of new '68 Chevys at the Corner Dairy--they have the taillights in the bumper; why would they do that?!". My Dad was ever so practical (sometimes cheap).

Only the '63 of the first-gen could be had with leather seating (my friend's does), but who needs leather when the vinyl they used as in this car looks so good, and frankly would hold up better than leather.

andre1969 · November 2020

I had forgotten about the taillight change on the Riviera. Yeah, I think the '65 ones definitely look better. More exotic, even. In contrast, the '63-64 seemed a bit more generic. And, if you squint your eyes (and take a few shots), bear a faint resemblance to something like a '71 Catalina or, to a lesser degree, a '74 Monaco.

The '65 taillights look a bit Lincoln-ish. Maybe that shows just how much of a trendsetter the '63-65 was though, if some later cars picked up on those details...even if it was most likely inadvertently.

imidazol97 · November 2020

Even the engine on the Riviera matches. Cool.

That's a green exterior I wouldn't pick if I could choose other colors. But that interior is _nice_.
And the matching engine. Wow.

andre1969 · November 2020

Oh, almost forgot, I had an obscure car sighting on Saturday morning. I was up by the road, planting some shrubs, as part of a rainwater mitigation the county is making me do when building my garage, when an early 70's Benz drove past. It looked like a less pristine version of this...

It had a V8 sound to it...definitely didn't sound like a Diesel. There was a bit of exhaust scent as well, definitely more akin to gasoline fumes, rather than Diesel.

Michaell · November 2020

Could be a 280 SE 4.5, which has a V8.

(I'm sure @fintail will show up at any time and give us 200+ words on this particular model - which will educate all of us)

explorerx4 · November 2020

@uplanderguy,
I thought you might enjoy a bit of this, you only have to watch for a few seconds.
You might even like the ending.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOME1wR1U5o

fintail · November 2020

Yep, a car with that profile would be a W108 or W109, which were never offered with a diesel, so Andre heard right.

They could be had with V8s - a 3.5, 4.5, and the top dog, the 6.3 (basic engine was an I6, carb or FI). These were MBs first V8s in a normal sized sedan. These cars appeared in a lot of movies, and are relevant to MB and its entrance to the US luxury market, the V8 giving it much wider appeal. I see the statement most in "Driving Miss Daisy", where Daisy's son, usually driving a late model Cadillac, is driving a MB like this at the end.

Andre's pictured car is a W108 of indeterminate engine, but with sidemarkers is 1968+, anachronistic tires of course.

Michaell said:
Could be a 280 SE 4.5, which has a V8.

(I'm sure @fintail will show up at any time and give us 200+ words on this particular model - which will educate all of us)

uplanderguy · November 2020

explorerx4, thanks for sharing! So the '64 Studebaker Daytona won! I'm a big fan of that specific year and model. I watched maybe a minute of the entire clip, and skipped around, but considering the Studebaker won, I didn't hear the word "Studebaker" mentioned once; just "Cortina" a ton of times, LOL!

uplanderguy · November 2020

Reminded by the announcement of DeSoto's passing here recently, in a couple weeks it will have been 57 years, on December 9, that Studebaker announced the shutdown of U.S. operations in South Bend after 111 years of continuous production. This Daytona was a customer order but Studebaker kept it and gave it to the City of South Bend and took a similar car out of factory stock and added and subtracted options to fill the customer's order. The dealer in Pennsylvania had no idea until decades later when a friend told him the window sticker on this car in the museum had his name on it.

It's not really the last Studebaker built in South Bend, but the last 'regular production line' Studebaker automobile. The Avanti and trucks were built for another week, but they were built in a separate building. The last Hawk was five serial numbers before this Daytona and it was sold to a customer and the car survives in private hands. The last Studebaker Avanti is on display in the Crawford Museum in Cleveland. The last Studebaker of all, built in Hamilton, Ontario, is on display in the Stude museum as well. It's good most of the last cars survive. The last truck was sold to the GSO and I'm sure was used-up.

This Daytona has 4-speed, the Avanti R1 (non-supercharged) engine (240 hp; similar to a 327 Chevy), in-dash tach, disc brakes, Twin Traction, and 50/50 individually-adjustable front bench seat. It has 23 miles.

uplanderguy · November 2020

The above car on a transport carrier before the decision to keep occurred. Studebaker truck hauler:

fintail · November 2020

Went for a long walk today, saw a Festiva, a couple Vanagons, Saab 9000, and this, which I snapped a pic as I know someone who likes these:

texases · November 2020

One of the better looking Toyotas out there.

stickguy · November 2020

I like that generation Corolla. Especially the SR-5

andre1969 · November 2020

I like that generation of Corolla, too, especially the hardtop coupe. They had another style I thought was interesting, as well. I always thought of it as a 2-door hardtop wagon, but I guess it sort of blurs the distinction between a wagon and a hatchback...

The range of body styles the Corolla had back then was pretty amazing, as well. IIRC there was a 2-door sedan, 4-door sedan, the fastback/hatchback coupe, hardtop coupe, hardtop wagon/hatchback, and 4-door wagon.

These days, they're down to just the 4-door sedan and hatchback, although I guess you could make the case that the RAV-4 sort of fills in for the wagon market. The hatchback must be a really slow seller. I don't think I've ever seen one, out in the wild.

stickguy · November 2020

that vintage still had a true wagon too I think.

ab348 · November 2020

Man, those Corollas have all turned to reddish dust here decades ago. I bought my MR2 new in '85 but originally went into the dealership to buy either a Celica GT (which was too expensive for me as it turned out) or a Corolla GTS, which probably would have been a more sensible choice even though I loved my MR2. I remember debating beforehand in my head between the hatch and the coupe version, which became a moot point when our local dealer had zero availability of either.

andre1969 · November 2020

I can't remember the last time I've seen a Corolla of that '79-83 vintage, either. It's been awhile. I think the last one I saw was a 4-door wagon. It was at night, and I was coming up on it from behind. It had been so long since I'd seen one, that it took a moment for my mind to register what it was!

I also remember someone using a hardtop coupe to do pizza deliveries. But that was back when I was still delivering pizzas, so that's pushing 20 years, now.

kyfdx · November 2020

Still RWD back then, too.

roadburner · November 2020

Back then Toyota also emphasized the fun-to-drive aspect.

fintail · November 2020

Corolla had such a varied product line up until the early 90s, when it became a car of choice for those who don't like cars and just want a reliable toaster to keep them safe and warm. The sedans and even wagons pop up now and then in the Seattle area, but the two door models seem really thin on the ground - I think the look-at-me stance/drift crowd has destroyed more than a few.

fintail · November 2020

Spotted today - a couple of 80s Town Cars, E30 with a deep/big front spoiler (is? ix?) , 50 Chevy, 40s Ford pickup, a nice red W124 wagon, and the real rarity, an Eagle Summit.

texases · November 2020

Summit wagon or sedan?

stickguy · November 2020

Hoovie just picked up an E30 (1988). I love those. Such classic drivers car, back when BMW was still BMW (and man, on the video, he really hosed out BMW for their current models and issues. and styling!)

even I could work on a 325 from that generation. He got the IX, so added the complexity of the AWD. at least it is a manual. That car in iS trim would be great to have. If you could find one that isn't all rusted out or thrashed.

fintail · November 2020

texases said:
Summit wagon or sedan?

Sedan, which is probably rarer than the wagons nowadays, as those seem to have a little cult following.

fintail · November 2020

Not many oldies out today - saw a Chet Ripley/Leo Marvin Wagoneer, maybe 65 Chevy II/Nova coupe, Marty McFly style Toyota Xtra Cab 4x4 (not really rare around here).

tjc78 · November 2020

It was 90s Pontiac day yesterday. At an intersection, a 94 Trans Am (Emerald green of course) and a same vintage Bonneville. Then a gold Trans Am all beat to hell.

Also saw a mint black 85-87 Town Car.

sda · November 2020

A navy blue with white convertible top, 68 Ford LTD. Looked nice.

andre1969 · November 2020

I just happened to look out the front window, as a VW Karman Ghia drove past. Looked restored, had extra-big tires on it. About the best way I could describe its color would be "Lime Yellow" (a bright yellow, with just a hint of green) Had a nice rumble to it as it drove past, definitely not stock. Although going downhill, it did backfire.

Oh, and yesterday, or maybe the day before (they're all starting to run together), I was walking up to get the mail, and a good looking W126 went past. I was still a couple hundred feet from the road, so I didn't get that good of a look, but it was black, shiny, and looked like the shorter wheelbase version.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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