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2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav
2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav
When I was a kid I used to think the '70 Toro was a one-year design, but I realize it's a fairly big facelift (redesigned wheel openings make me think 'big facelift').
It is kind of curious, too, that GM went through the that much effort to facelift the Toronado, and the Riviera, for a 1-year only style. I'm not a huge fan of the '70 Toronado's restyle, but I don't hate it, either. Now the Riveria, on the other hand... Something about the way they restyled it, it just seems downscale to me, like it's just a bloated Skylark, rather than a proper Riviera. It somehow manages to look pimpy, and like an old people's car, at the same time!
In contrast, I don't think Cadillac really messed up the '70 Eldorado, compared to '69. Wasn't it really just a change in the grille texture? One one hand, dropping the hidden headlights and going to exposed was definitely a cost-cutting move. But, with the hidden-headlight models, often I noticed that the covers didn't quite align with the grille, and that would make the overall effect look sloppy. And, since the headlight covers are solid, but the grille is flow-through, at certain times of the day if the sun hit it just right, it just seemed...off. I think it was the bold, widely space grille pattern with the large openings that did it. If it was a finer texture, that carried over to the covers, it might have worked better.
But, I'll admit, it' looks like it's in nice shape at a quick glance.
Did the Aurora and the Riviera of the era debut concurrently?
Also, IIRC, there was a gap year in there, as the first-gen Aurora was '95-99, while the 2nd-gen was 2001 until the end (2003?)
I just did a search for Rivieras, and did a bit better. Closest one popped up in Columbus, New Jersey. 122 miles away, as the crow flies.
I do like the '95-99 Riviera, thinking of it as sort of a 2-door Park Avenue. But good lord, that lead-in pic showing it dead-on from the front, isn't exactly the most flattering angle in the world.
This also popped up, and kinda caught my eye. But, I dunno if I'm in the mood to go up to Connecticut to look at it!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
I was a fan of the very-minimal-woodgrain-trim dash on those last Rivs, but I know the aftermarket came up with woodgrain paneling for the panel.
Those Rivs may be among the last GM coupes with frameless door glass, which I like. I guess they built the Camaro and Firebird until 2002 I think, and those had it too though.
Re.: '67-70 Eldos--you can tell on the '67 that they had plans to put the parking/cornering lights, in the corners. Visible seams there on the '67....aaarrgggh! I used to think the interior on the Eldo was plain compared to the Mark III, but with hindsight, the Mark III interior seems pimpy/cheesy to me, and the Eldo is understated.
On the subject of cheapening interiors, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Eldorado, if you got leather seats, only the front seat was leather? That the back seat was vinyl? It seems like some awfully strange cost-cutting to me. Or maybe it was some other car I'm thinking of? And I do agree...in some respects Lincoln interiors back then seem a bit higher quality, but in other respects, it was definitely going for that pimp style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPTPM8-PLHY
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Your earlier remark about the last Riv being somewhat of a two-door Park Avenue is interesting and I'd never thought of that before, but good analogy.
I thought that last Park Avenue was interesting....I remember it was actually taller and I think, longer, than its predecessor. It looked substantial to my eyes, and I can't think of anything else from anywhere that was comparable in FWD, size, and six-passenger capacity if required.
My favorite Rivieras are the 66-67
In '67 GM had a gorgeous, really deep burgundy or plum color, like a wine, that was very rich. A couple years ago at the big car show in Greenville, somebody had a '67 Toronade Deluxe in that color and it was striking. I recall Rivs that color too.
I could enjoy a '67 Riv GS with the chrome road wheels, in that color.
IIRC, the 1995 Aurora and Riviera were the first GM cars to use their new "G" platform, which was supposedly the strongest FWD platform on the market at the time. When the Park Ave was redone for '97, it was moved to the G platform as well. Even though the Riviera looked like it had very little in common with the Park Ave, under the skin they had a fairly strong relation. I guess it would a similar correlation to, say, a 1978 Monte Carlo versus a 1978 Malibu 4-door?
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
"Exclusive" and "stands out from the crowd" also sounds a bit hyperbolic. Just looks like a Taurus with a spoiler package, to me.
My grandparents had an '89 Taurus LX sedan, and I'll say, it was a really nice car...for a Ford. But, my neighbors had an '89 Volvo wagon that they bought used, in 1992. I can't remember if it was a 740 or 760, but I do remember it was NICE. Not, "nice for a Ford" nice, but NICE...if that makes sense. It had a high-quality feel to it, inside and out. I seem to recall the interior being a bit stark, but still it had an expensive, high quality feel to it. Just putting a spoiler kit and some suspension/tire upgrades on a Taurus is NOT going to put it in the league of my neighbors' Volvo. Now there was that other Volvo wagon, the 240GL or whatever they were calling it, by then. Kind of felt more like a re-serialed 1965 Dart than a brand-new car. But again, they had a high quality feel to them. Not luxurious, but sturdy. And the types of people who were buying those 240GLs seemed more like anti-car people, who didn't care about the latest style or handling, but still wanted something solid and durable, so something like this Taurus would be lost on them.
Plus, weren't Volvo buyers back in those days kind of like a cult, who swore by their cars?
As for my neighbors' car, I remember around 1998, it was getting unreliable. None of the local mechanics wanted to mess with it, so every time it broke it was back to the dealer in Virginia, about 20-25 miles away. It was starting to get pricey too, so they finally gave up and they bought a Subaru Legacy Outback. From one cult to another, I guess
They built them from 1974-1993. They replaced the 140 series that was built from something like 1966-73. I don't know if the 240 was an all-new design or just a heavy modification. They bear a strong resemblance to each other in my opinion, but it could just be a result of Volvo trying to keep up a family look.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I googled "1970 Toronado GT Hershey" and this came up, mirroring my most-recent memory of the car. Carlisle is just down the road from Hershey and I am 99% certain this is the car we looked at. Sold for $5,610.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/sc13/spring-carlisle/lots/r252-1970-oldsmobile-toronado-gt/589198
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
74 Catalina, steaming a bit as it was in the 20s and felt it. 400, the owner told me all about it as he saw me looking it over. he mentioned the turbine hubcaps were a not inexpensive option, and insisted on rolling the windows down to show me the hardtop look. Patina especially on exterior paint and roof, but apparently a ~90K mile survivor, all original finishes. It spent some time sitting outside, so it could use paint, owner says he'll probably do it next year once he finds some filler pieces for the rear bumper, as they are cracked. One really unusual option on this car, AC, and it has the fancy one with the wheel to select temperature, as I'd expect in a period Cadillac. Has to be rare on a Catalina. The car ran like new, just purred.
Interesting about the automatic temp AC option on a low end model.
I hope owner is careful about the paint that is used. I see so many older cars with repaints using clearcoat and they end up with colors that are much "brighter" than the original color was, due to the newer paints.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
And just this morning, I saw a clip that looked like it was prepared for the visitor to Desilu studios; how the cameras worked, and Desi came out and spoke to the audience and then introduced the cast of "I Love Lucy". He saved Lucy for last and she came out, bowed, but did not go near him. She did look a tad older than in the earliest episodes, and I knew they were having issues later on.
Thinking of that hardtop + colonnade bodystyle, when I was younger, an older lady antique dealer friend of my mom had an Olds like that, kind of a light yellow with matching interior, IIRC. I think maybe when I was still in high school, around 1994, her husband passed away, and she sold the "extra" cars (they also had an S10 and a Hornet Sportabout). The Olds was very clean, and she would have sold it to me for like $800, but I think she also remarked "it burns too much gas". She ended up keeping the Sportabout, which was in pristine condition, almost seemed like a new car. Last time I saw her, probably close to 10 years ago now (also since passed away), I think she had a Corolla.
It didn't seem to be sitting significantly low at the time, but maybe over time could have settled just a little. I remember when I was younger, remarking about an old Lincoln or Cadillac with the butt-dragging stance, and my dad remarked that it was the style of the car. Some do seem to have a weighed down look.
Starting in 1970, Pontiac had started making a 350 standard on the Catalina. I don't know if this was an attempt to hold the line on prices and put more pressure on Chevy, or if GM was just trying to standardize things somewhat. I think for '70, Chevy started making the 350 as their standard V8 on big cars. While they actually had the 6-cyl standard, there were no more 307s or 327s being put in the big cars. For some reason, I'm thinking that in '69, part way through the model year, they dropped they phased out the 327 and replaced it with the 350?
They kept the 350 as the standard engine from '71-73, although I have a feeling most of them were ordered with a 400. But then they went back to making the 400 standard for '74...just in time for the oil shortage!
As for that car Fintail spotted in the wild looking like it's sitting low in back, it appears that way to me, as well. But, check out the image in this '74 Pontiac brochure!
I never knew Pontiac had adjustable pedals in the 70s, wonder what the take rate was on that option?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Here's the page for the '74 Bonneville in the sales brochure. It definitely looks like the rear is at a more normal ride height, to me.
EDIT: Yeah, '74 brochure still shows 400 as standard in the Caprice. '75 brochure shows 350 standard on all full-sizes.
2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav
As for the '71-76 big cars, I guess you could argue they were facelifted somewhat in '73, courtesy of the Fed's bumper regulations. But, you still knew that they were the same car, just bulkier, heavier, and thanks again to the government, slower than the year before.
But then, contrast that to the 1965-70 run. When I was younger, I used to think the '67 and '69 were all new cars. And the changes every two years were pretty significant. I discovered that the first time I needed suspension parts for my '67 Catalina. I think it was ball joints, but it's been ages now. Anyway, the only years that were compatible were 1967-68, and Pontiac-only. Chevy, Buick, and Olds suspensions were all different.
By '71-76, I have a feeling the suspensions were pretty much the same for the whole run, and maybe even the same across brands. I'd imagine there were heavier-duty components for wagons, and perhaps the C-body was a bit beefier than the B-body, but in general, everything was probably a lot more easy-swap.
From '65-70 though, they went through the effort to change the cars pretty substantially, even in the "off" years. For instance, while a '66 Chevy looks very close to a '65, I think just about all of the sheetmetal is different. And then the '67 is different enough that it almost looks "all new".
And in '69 GM, or at least Pontiac, did something to their suspensions to make the car handle like a whole different beast. At least, I could tell a radical difference between my '67 Catalina and a '69 Bonneville I used to have. Now, we're talking about 1994 era perceptions here, but about the best way to describe it was that the Bonneville handled like a new car, just a big one, whereas the Catalina handled about the way you'd expect an old car to. The '69 had front disc brakes, which would affect braking, but not handling I'd think. The '69 also had 15" rims versus 14" on the '67. And the steering wheel on the '69 was smaller, more "modern" feeling, while the '67 was probably larger, to accommodate cars that didn't have power steering. But, overall, the '69 was just a more pleasurable car to drive. Well, when it ran, that is.
I used to like the '69 Chevy, but ab348 pointed out once here about the flared fenders making the tires and wheels look like they sat too far inboard, and I agree. Not a fan of the other '69 GM big cars, for looks. I missed the big fastback roofs of the '68's.
RE.: Steering wheel size--my Dad had a hard time adjusting to the small wheel on our '73 Nova, from our '67 Chevelle's big, hard wheel.