I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

sda · December 2020

As far as full size GM cars, I thought the 69 Olds 98 was handsome, especially the 4dr hardtop. The Bonneville had a formal sporty look to it. There was a medium dark blue that it looked great in.

ab348 · December 2020

Well, they did make a mid-cycle refresh in '74 for the B-body cars, introducing the new roofline and greenhouse for the coupes. They actually did 2 versions of that, one for Pontiac, Buick and Olds with a small rear quarter window that retracted along with the larger fixed glass to the rear of that, and on Chevy just giving the large fixed rear quarter window. Then in '75 they added that extra triangular window in the c-pillar for the 4-door hardtops and changed that roofline for them and the sedans as well. No mistaking they were the same basic cars of course but that was par for the course for GM by then - no more changing the dashboards every year or two like back in the glory days.

andre1969 · December 2020

For '69, I think the Olds is my favorite of the bunch. I think it might be because Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy used loop bumper/grille combinations that year, and it made the cars look a bit too heavy up front. And on the Buick, the headlights were a bit too far inboard for my tastes. I also don't like those swollen blisters around the wheel openings on the '69 Chevy, but if you get bigger tires and wider rims, I guess you can help disguise that little detail somewhat.

I do like the overall shape and style of the '69-70 models, but it's just styling details here and there that either catch my eye, or turn me off. Overall though, the Olds just has a clean look about it, that's handsome, if a bit conservative, that I like.

andre1969 · December 2020

ab348 said:
Well, they did make a mid-cycle refresh in '74 for the B-body cars, introducing the new roofline and greenhouse for the coupes. They actually did 2 versions of that, one for Pontiac, Buick and Olds with a small rear quarter window that retracted along with the larger fixed glass to the rear of that, and on Chevy just giving the large fixed rear quarter window.

If you wanna get picky, they actually did three rooflines for the coupes! In addition to the two you mentioned, there was a hardtop coupe for the Impala Sport Coupe in '74-75. At a quick glance, it looks close to the '71-73 Impala Custom Coupe and Caprice Coupe, but it's a little different. The concave rear window is gone, and the C-pillar and roll-down rear window are slightly different.

Most buyers were going for the fixed-window style of the Impala Custom and Caprice though, so the base sport coupe hardtop roof was dropped for '76.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Back to Pontiacs of the era--this '72 Grand Ville is on the "All Original Cars" FB page and I gotta say, I like it a lot. Not a fan of the color--my best high-school buddy drove his parents' '72 Impala that same color--Chevy called it 'Driftwood'--but I like the way this Grand Ville is decked out. The Morrokide in saddle looks fairly leather-like I think.

The '72 Pontiac brochure had a photo of the Grand Ville Custom Interior, and I think they used the term 'fluted damask'. Looked really nice, although I never saw a real car with it. The four-door with that interior got you a rear-seat center armrest--like in the Buick Centurion, too. I like the smoother, less-formal exterior styling of the Centurion over the Electra 225, but it still had a plush interior.

Here's that Grand Ville:

uplanderguy · December 2020

RE.: Styling updates--when the wheel openings stayed the same, that always meant in my mind that it was still basically last year's car, LOL.

kyfdx · December 2020

Is that supposed to be like Naugahyde?

I'd pronounce it like Andrew, but I've never heard of it, before now.

imidazol97 · December 2020

Still love those Saginaw tilt steering columns.

uplanderguy · December 2020

I never felt tilt wheel was an option worth buying...until I received the '85 Celebrity Eurosport I'd ordered.

I did not order tilt wheel.

It had the basic Celebrity ribbon speedometer, but the fat "Eurosport" wheel. Where I sat, almost all the speedo was hidden, sigh.

imidazol97 · December 2020

The Saginaw wheel tilted near the top, so it allowed much more room under the steering wheel to slide in and out of the seat.

The "tilt" wheels on my Cobalt and Malibu pivot somewhere near the firewall? Much less upward movement of the wheel for exit and entry.

There was a downside to the larger angle of bending of the Saginaw wheel because the fine wires inside that went up to the resistance reader in the lock unit would eventually break from the flexing. As the fine wires broke one-by-one, the resistance of the wires and key chip changed causing the system to not recognize the 17 key resistances on those cars which used the chip in the key in the 90s. These were the VATS system keys (vehicle anti-theft system).

omarman · December 2020

1964 Pontiac Dealer Sales Training video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Vml8hf5HM
Starting around the 2:15 mark the narrator describes the Morrokide interior choices. It sounds a bit like "Morocco" with the "ide" added on the end.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Interesting, thanks for posting!

I think I learned something else today--it appears the '64 midsize Pontiacs weren't available in a two-door hardtop (5:14).

EDIT: Online, I see pics of '64 GTO two-door hardtops, but I wonder if hardtops weren't available at the beginning of the model year.

I like the shape of the wheel openings on the '64 Tempests, and that the side is pretty free of trim smack down the sides. I also like the taillights on the LeMans and GTO.

andre1969 · December 2020

One thing I don't like about a lot of modern tilt wheels is how it's basically just a lever that you release, and then lift the whole steering column to where you want it, and then just shove the lever back into place where pressure holds it.

I guess in theory it gives you unlimited positions, whereas the older style with the notches only gives you like 6 or 7. But the newer system just seems kind of cheap to me, like it's just begging to break.

texases · December 2020

Those 'beeps' between slides remind me of the film strip shows in junior high...

fintail · December 2020

Power seats, tilt wheel, (apparent) power windows - posh! Must have been a special order or dealer demo etc. Definitely what I'd call "period colors".

uplanderguy said:
Back to Pontiacs of the era--this '72 Grand Ville is on the "All Original Cars" FB page and I gotta say, I like it a lot. Not a fan of the color--my best high-school buddy drove his parents' '72 Impala that same color--Chevy called it 'Driftwood'--but I like the way this Grand Ville is decked out. The Morrokide in saddle looks fairly leather-like I think.

The '72 Pontiac brochure had a photo of the Grand Ville Custom Interior, and I think they used the term 'fluted damask'. Looked really nice, although I never saw a real car with it. The four-door with that interior got you a rear-seat center armrest--like in the Buick Centurion, too. I like the smoother, less-formal exterior styling of the Centurion over the Electra 225, but it still had a plush interior.

Here's that Grand Ville:

andre1969 · December 2020

I wonder if the hardtops were just a bit late in hitting the market, and weren't available when that training film was shot? According to my old car book, they built 31,310 Tempest LeMans hardtop coupes, and 31,317 of the Tempest LeMans "sport" coupe.

With the GTO, it lists 7,384 of the "sport" coupe (pillared) and 18,422 hardtop coupes.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Yeah, I'm thinking they probably weren't available at the beginning of the model year. Chevelle never got a pillared 'coupe' in '64, but the cheapo 300 series did have a two-door sedan. Had the two-door wagon, too, which I'd enjoy, with that bit-o-Nomad styling in the side glass.

The '64 Tempest instrument panel is a nice one I think; one of the only GM's I can remember (anyway) that had only one indicator for left and right turn signals--like my '63-66 Studebakers.

andre1969 · December 2020

That's right...I had forgotten that the Chevelle's pillared 2-door was actually a 2-door sedan, rather than a coupe.

omarman · December 2020

Film strips. Slides. We're so old it's funny.

tjc78 · December 2020

I like the way many 80’s Ford’s handled the tilt. Only the wheel itself moved, the column stayed put. Can’t post a picture on my phone but check out any 80-89 Panther and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

fintail · December 2020

Pretty sure our Tempo had that same wheel-only tilt.

roadburner · December 2020

uplanderguy said:
I never felt tilt wheel was an option worth buying...until I received the '85 Celebrity Eurosport I'd ordered.

I did not order tilt wheel.

It had the basic Celebrity ribbon speedometer, but the fat "Eurosport" wheel. Where I sat, almost all the speedo was hidden, sigh.

I had forgotten about the Eurosport. My father and I were friends with the owner of the Chevrolet dealer in my home town. When he heard I was buying the Bavaria he tried to get me to order a Eurosport instead.
I gave him an "A" for effort.

andre1969 said:
One thing I don't like about a lot of modern tilt wheels is how it's basically just a lever that you release, and then lift the whole steering column to where you want it, and then just shove the lever back into place where pressure holds it.

I guess in theory it gives you unlimited positions, whereas the older style with the notches only gives you like 6 or 7. But the newer system just seems kind of cheap to me, like it's just begging to break.

I've had several cars with the lever system you described- BMW, Jeep, Mazda and Nissan off the top of my head. I've never had an issue with any of them. I like the infinite adjustability of the tilt/telescoping wheels.

uplanderguy · December 2020

I will say that with the Goodyear Eagle tires, my Eurosport (stupid name) was sticky in the corners. I drove a friend's '84 Monte Carlo afterwards and almost rolled it over trying to take a corner like I would in my car.

The car had the best back-seat accomodations of any two-door Chevy I'd owned--pretty flat floor; decent seat height; big windows, but the door was somewhat short for a two-door and getting around the shoulder belt was a pain.

I had the 2.8 MFI V6. The car was mechanically the Pontiac 6000STE, which was a darling of the magazines at the time. My car was a two-door though of course.

uplanderguy · December 2020

I guess in theory it gives you unlimited positions, whereas the older style with the notches only gives you like 6 or 7. But the newer system just seems kind of cheap to me, like it's just begging to break.

Our old two Cobalts, I can remember playing with the adjustment lever under the column, but my Cruze and Equinox, I'm sure have the feature but I've never once even attempted to move the column, yet alone even looked at it.

ab348 · December 2020

andre1969 said:

I guess in theory it gives you unlimited positions, whereas the older style with the notches only gives you like 6 or 7. But the newer system just seems kind of cheap to me, like it's just begging to break.

Those older Saginaw GM tilt columns are very prone to wear and failure over time. They get sloppy, move around even when supposedly locked, and when people want to put one in a muscle car they're restoring they always need to be rebuilt first.

ab348 · December 2020

The saddle interior in that '72 Grand Ville looks nice, even though it was always a color of vinyl I was wary about back then. Ford and some other makes often selected a "mottled" style of saddle vinyl upholstery which to me always looked awful. I guess it was supposed to more realistically emulate saddle leather but it never gooded good to my eye:

uplanderguy · December 2020

To me, saddle color is sort-of what color leather is supposed to be, so I like that in a nice vinyl interior. I can't tell what car that pic came from.

I like a smooth, or even perforated, vinyl, but I hate woven vinyl. The '75 LeSabre Custom vinyl interior is a quality design, but I always thought the graining looked like a naugahyde recliner. But at least the vinyls held up pretty well then.

ab348 · December 2020

uplanderguy said:
I can't tell what car that pic came from.

That example is a '72 Torino.

sda · December 2020

The saddle Morrokide that dad had in his 71 Catalina tried to look like a pigskin type leather. The saddle Morrokide in the 73 Catalina looked more like vinyl but still looked nice. I agree, I didn't care for the mottled style of vinyl used in Ford/Mercury. Dad drove a 71 Galaxie 500 from the company fleet while he was waiting on the lease approval of the 73. They had already turned in the 71 with almost 60k on it. The vinyl didn't look as nice nor did it have a nice feel to it.

uplanderguy · December 2020

That example is a '72 Torino.

That seat bottom almost looks like aftermarket upholstery! Before I knew I could get NOS for my first Studebaker, and cheap, I remember looking at vinyl patterns like that.

andre1969 · December 2020

I remember some cars of the early 70's having this really rugged looking vinyl, that looked like something they'd use to cover the seats in a school bus, police car, or taxi. Thick and durable, but not that attractive looking. For some reason, I tended to associate it with Buick!

This might be what I'm thinking of...

That's the back seat of a '73 LeSabre 4-door hardtop, and it's actually higher quality that what I remember. Still, there's just something I find a bit off-putting about the texture.

uplanderguy · December 2020

I always thought the '71 and '72 Catalina Brougham and Bonneville vinyl trim looked reasonably 'quality' (not 'frou frou') and also looked like it would look this good fifty years down the road.

Catalina Brougham and Bonneville those years were what Ventura and Executive were a few years earlier--same interior trim; different wheelbases.

uplanderguy · December 2020

That LeSabre interior was the base LeSabre. Seems I always saw more "LeSabre Custom" models. The big swath of 'wood' contact paper on the door panels is a bit much too.

andre1969 · December 2020

That Pontiac interior looks fairly nice to me. I definitely prefer the texture of that vinyl to the '73 LeSabre I posted. The color might be part of it, though...I just find that particular shade attractive and soothing.

So, for those couple of years when they had the Catalina Brougham, is that all it was, a Catalina with Bonneville trim inside?

uplanderguy · December 2020

So, for those couple of years when they had the Catalina Brougham, is that all it was, a Catalina with Bonneville trim inside?

That's right. You got some of the exterior trim that was optional on the regular Catalina, standard, like the wheel opening moldings, which I think adds some sparkle to the exterior. I'm thinking the Bonneville came standard with a larger engine (455) than the Catalina Brougham. But the interiors were identical...even the cloth interiors which were a completely different design and pattern than this vinyl interior.

Sometimes I prefer a nice 'quality' look inside over 'frou frou', which is why there are some years I'd rather have an Impala than the same year Caprice, with its panty cloth interior.

andre1969 · December 2020

Wow, the Bonneville name really got beat up in the early 70's! First, getting demoted more or less to Star Chief/Executive status by the Grand Ville, and then having to share its interior with a Catalina option.

I guess about the only advantages the Bonneville gave you by that time was a standard 455 and 2" more wheelbase. But, you could get a 455 in the Catalina, and I think the two extra inches were ahead of the firewall, so you got a longer hood, maybe a slightly smoother ride.

uplanderguy · December 2020

You know Pontiacs I didn't like then, but have grown to like? The '70 full-sizes. I know they're based on the '69, but I never see them now. I could like a Ventura or Executive two-door hardtop, or a Bonneville Brougham in either two-or-four-door. Just something different than the high-volume Catalina or (regular) Bonneville lines.

At the time, I thought the front end was awful. It is distinctive though.

In a '71 or '72, I think the Catalina Brougham was a modest but nice upgrade in seating and door panels over the regular Catalina. I believe the base Catalina had hard uppermost door panels like a Chevy Bel Air.

andre1969 · December 2020

I've noticed that the older I get, and the rarer old cars become, my opinions on many models that I couldn't stand when new, have mellowed considerably. The '70 full-sizers still aren't exactly my favorite Pontiac, but I can still appreciate them.

Nowadays, that front-end styling is what they'd call "retro", with the tall, narrow grille and the horn ports, and looking more to the past for inspiration than the future. In those days, I think the term was "neoclassic". There was also a bit of "pimp factor" starting to creep in. I think they were inspired somewhat by the Grand Prix.

I think that might have been where Pontiac started to fall, style-wise. In the earlier 60's, it seemed like they designed the big cars, first and foremost, and then tried to make the midsized cars ape the style of the big ones. But then the '67 big cars seemed like a one-off deal, totally unique. Looking like nothing that came before, or after. For '68 though, it looked more to me like they put their efforts into the new midsized cars first, and then tried to make the big cars emulate the midsize style, and the result wasn't quite as successful.

uplanderguy · December 2020

Came up as my Facebook memory four years ago today. It's the real 'Sanford and Son' truck. It had California plates "UBIGDUMMY", rather scrunched together.

fintail · December 2020

Speaking of lower line big 70s Pontiacs, one always comes to mind - someone here will recognize the context:

uplanderguy · December 2020

'75 or '76, but I don't know the reference. I wasn't watching a whole lot of movies in the '80's or '90's as I had become a working adult then, LOL!

fintail · December 2020

Too bad, as that was a glory time for movies, looking at old papers, it seems I could have been happy going to the movies every week.

https://youtu.be/HMNjCNyZkxY

stickguy · December 2020

I still don't know what movie it is.

Michaell · December 2020

I'm gonna guess Joe vs. the Volcano

fintail · December 2020

Same era. This one is more of a dark comedy, cult classic.

Another couple of now-rare cars from the credits:

stickguy · December 2020

Peugeot 504 and Volvo 760.

don't know this movie either.

fintail · December 2020

So close, 505 and the Volvo is a 780 - the coupe model. Haven't seen one in a long while.

Another scene, with something now-rare as well:

stickguy said:
Peugeot 504 and Volvo 760.

don't know this movie either.

uplanderguy · December 2020

I will say, I love "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" and watched it for the umpteenth time a couple nights ago.
I travelled very frequently with my job then and could relate to some of the stuff--particularly to going out to a space where my rental car was supposed to be, and there was nothing there.

I was on a shuttle bus at LaGuardia once and three French stewardesses (I know, that sounds bad) came on and the only thing I could understand was one of them saying "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" and the other two laughing.

I always liked scary movies, though not really slice-n-dice movies. There was one in the early '80's I liked called "Ghost Story", with Fred Astaire and some other noteworthy actors, but it seemed to come and go quickly in the theaters.

tjc78 · December 2020

C’mon guys ... it’s the ‘Burbs! Back when Hanks did stupid humor movies!

kyfdx · December 2020

Turner and Hooch

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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