I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

omarman · March 2021

Maybe a respray 1977 Olds 442 with W29 option 260 V8 and 5 speed.

Can't find this color in the '77 Olds brochure.

fintail · March 2021

I think I recall seeing a V12 E-Type on an old episode of Let's Make a Deal, too. Maybe not the most desired model of the series today, but with those looks, someone will want it. I recall the Jag in "Cujo" was also one of these late run V12s.

10K doesn't seem too bad then, a new 450SLC would have set you back more like 20K.

uplanderguy · March 2021

An import that truly grabs me, then and now! LOL

sda · March 2021

andre1969 said:
I'm almost positive that's incorrect, unless they changed it for '58. Here's a pic of my '57 Firedome, back when I had it towed to the mechanic in late 2009...

If the wheel well was body-color, it would show up in this pic. Funny thing though, I can't remember what color it is. I'm picturing a dark gray. I don't think it's black, but I could be wrong.

How did and what motivated you to buy the DeSoto? Those fins and triple tail lights rock.

ab348 · March 2021

omarman said:
Maybe a respray 1977 Olds 442 with W29 option 260 V8 and 5 speed.

Can't find this color in the '77 Olds brochure.

The paint looks like 1976 Lime Poly.

A 4-4-2 with a 260... there oughta be a law!

uplanderguy · March 2021

That's definitely a '76-only GM color. I remember it well.

uplanderguy · March 2021

andre, your DeSoto certainly looks like it's all there, body-wise. Paint looks nice too.

stickguy · March 2021

ab348 said:

omarman said:
Maybe a respray 1977 Olds 442 with W29 option 260 V8 and 5 speed.

Can't find this color in the '77 Olds brochure.
The paint looks like 1976 Lime Poly.

A 4-4-2 with a 260... there oughta be a law!

At least it’s a V8, and more important, a manual!

I like it.

ab348 · March 2021

stickguy said:

ab348 said:

omarman said:
Maybe a respray 1977 Olds 442 with W29 option 260 V8 and 5 speed.

Can't find this color in the '77 Olds brochure.
The paint looks like 1976 Lime Poly.

A 4-4-2 with a 260... there oughta be a law!
At least it’s a V8, and more important, a manual!

I like it.

0-60 in 14.7 seconds, with a 20.7 in the 1/4 mile. Such a muscle car! Have fun, and watch out for Hyundai Accents trying to sandbag you.

stickguy · March 2021

I have a car that runs mid 6's. I still don't drag race Hyundais.

Besides, it would get a modern crate motor and a 6 speed stick, along with suspension and brake upgrades to handle it.

sda · March 2021

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

ab348 said:

omarman said:
Maybe a respray 1977 Olds 442 with W29 option 260 V8 and 5 speed.

Can't find this color in the '77 Olds brochure.
The paint looks like 1976 Lime Poly.

A 4-4-2 with a 260... there oughta be a law!
At least it’s a V8, and more important, a manual!

I like it.
0-60 in 14.7 seconds, with a 20.7 in the 1/4 mile. Such a muscle car! Have fun, and watch out for Hyundai Accents trying to sandbag you.

Other than smoothness and durability the 260 V8 was a slug. The 5sp transmission had a very narrow gate and did not like be shifted quickly and had a clutch that took a lot of effort, a real muscle builder.

andre1969 · March 2021

ab348 said:

0-60 in 14.7 seconds, with a 20.7 in the 1/4 mile. Such a muscle car! Have fun, and watch out for Hyundai Accents trying to sandbag you.

"Little 4-4-2
You're really lookin' fine!
With 260 and a 5-speed
And Dubya Twenty-Nine!"

Good thing Ronny and the Daytonas quit when they did!

Anyway, nice looking car. Also, as much as I hate too much government intervention, this is one of those cases where yeah, there oughta be a law, against allowing an engine like this in a 4-4-2!

tjc78 · March 2021

Yeah that 442 is begging for something to be swapped in. Cool car. My Dad’s mid 70s Grand Prix was the same color combo.

stickguy · March 2021

I was watching TV sunday while exercising and saw the tail end of an episode of all girls garage. the project was swapping in an LS and modern manual trans into a 1970 or 71 442. the exterior was stock from what I can tell. I think interior too. did not see anything about chassis related items in the 10 minutes I had on.

they did swap in a neat digital gauge cluster that looked like analog, and the stock trim piece fit over it so it looked almost original. That was cool.

ab348 · March 2021

If it has an LS under the hood, it is no longer a 4-4-2.

ab348 · March 2021

Watching a very early TPIR this morning, from Sept. 9, 1972. Two Chevys on offer:

Anitra with some good miniskirt action here.

The Nova was $2647 (with a 350 under the hood) but wasn't won. The Vega wasn't priced as it was in a showcase and wasn't awarded either.

https://youtu.be/8r88Poglmgk

As an aside, I was struck by watching this and hearing how BB referred to a few of the female contestants with terms ("little girl" and others) that would have him be instantly shamed today. Times have changed but in this case not for the worse.

imidazol97 · March 2021

I rode in the rear seat of a Vega two door the first year they were out.
Awful.
Tinny.
Noisy.
Minimalistic.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I also question the MSRP of the Nova shown. The '73's which came out later that month had the same MSRP due to Nixon's regulations (can't remember what it was called). Ours was $2,625, delivered on Oct. 6, 1972. The only thing ours might have had that that Nova didn't, was Rally Wheels ($44 I seem to remember, versus $26 for the full wheelcovers), and MAYBE $26 for the optional 3-speed floor shift, since we can't see inside the TPIR car.

The V8 had a base of a good $100 more, and that was the 307. The 350 2-barrel was an inexpensive option on top of that.

Although I got very sick of that style Nova, I can see why they sold well. It's got probably 75% of the style of a Chevelle Malibu, just with a non-hardtop body, drum brakes standard, and leaf rear springs and a sub-frame style chassis. I liked those '71 and '72 full wheelcovers, shared with the Chevelle and Camaro.

On our '73, that same Exterior Decor Group, $51, made a big difference in the looks. Included the side moldings and the bright trim around the side windows.

The Nova seemed like a lot more car than a Vega for not much more money.

But boy, the magazines loved the Vega. I think (accent on 'think') one actually declared it "Best Small Car In The World". Their ads into '73 would show six blue ribbons with the various awards it had won since introduction.

ab348 · March 2021

The Nova was described as a 6-cylinder by Johnny but you can clearly see the 350 badge on the fender. The only options he called out were whitewalls, wheel covers, Exterior Decor, and Powerglide. Maybe the car on stage wasn't the one they had built the game around, who knows.

fintail · March 2021

I still prefer that Camaro front on the Vega. Car may have been tinny, but it looked good.

Styles didn't change for the better in the 70s - can still see some 60s peeking through in the early years. Then as time went on, louder clothing, big hair, lapels out the shoulders, what a time (and that's when I was born, something to think about

). To quote a song, "mom, this shirt is plaid with a butterfly collar!".

Saw a 1985 TPiR last night, poor VHS transfer. Christmas showcase, the kind where people mailed in their guesses. 2 cars in it, a squarebody pickup and a Fleetwood Brougham. Other car in the episode was a Pontiac 1000 - so the Chevette effectively had a decade as a game show car.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Never thought about it at the time, and I understand the pain in getting a show like that together, but I think to have a car on display in a game and it's not the car being given away--or even equipped like it--is bad by today's standards.

ab348 · March 2021

For whatever reason I find these '70s TPIR shows quite entertaining, almost comforting. I remember that I used to see it quite often, as I was in university then and could either catch it on days when I didn't have classes at that time, or watch it in one of the lounges at school. The most notable thing for me seeing them now was how slim many/most people were compared to now. And I like the less made-up look of the younger '70s ladies compared to today's.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Boy, could women get away with skirts like that now? LOL

I would've enjoyed some girls I knew in HS wearing a skirt like that!

Probably not many tattoos or piercings back then either.

I watched that show daily in the summers in that period. My Dad came home for lunch every day from 11-12 (worked one mile away) and we'd all watch it after lunch.

uplanderguy · March 2021

OK, call me a hypocrite. This car has fake vents and the tach on the hood which I've goofed on before.

But what an unusual (GM) car! I think I've seen one real one in my almost 63 years.

This car, a '67, has 23.5K miles, documented, 428HO, 4-speed, disc brakes, original vinyl top, and on its (only) second owner.

I always think that full-size Pontiacs had such wide choices in series and bodystyles in the mid-and-late '60's. The 2+2 option on the Catalina had to be the lowest production of any of them.

Never been a fan of the disc brake wheelcovers, but I'll suck it up.

Talk about 'under the radar':

fintail · March 2021

I like seeing the old styles, and guessing old prices if I actually watch it. And seeing some old products - old electronics are fun, and even some food products can be amusing (last night saw Golden Grain boxed macaroni - I loved that when I was a little kid, I think it hasn't been made in 30 years). I watched TPiR when I was little, and then later during breaks from school.

Oh yeah, a 1984 episode played in the background last night, but I didn't pay close attention. First an early C4, MSRP just over 24K:

Then a Pontiac "2000 Sunbird" wagon, not bad looking, MSRP just over 8K:

And in the showcase, this thing made me laugh. The small screens are black and white while the large is color, what the heck was this all about? I bet this is pretty collectible today:

ab348 · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
OK, call me a hypocrite. This car has fake vents and the tach on the hood which I've goofed on before.

But what an unusual (GM) car! I think I've seen one real one in my almost 63 years.

This car, a '67, has 23.5K miles, documented, 428HO, 4-speed, disc brakes, original vinyl top, and on its (only) second owner.

I always think that full-size Pontiacs had such wide choices in series and bodystyles in the mid-and-late '60's. The 2+2 option on the Catalina had to be the lowest production of any of them.

Never been a fan of the disc brake wheelcovers, but I'll suck it up.

I seem to recall that you could order the hood tach on a '68 Pontiac full-sizer. Don't think it was offered for '67.

I always liked the '67 Pontiac 2-door. The '68, not do much.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I'm just not sure. Points off the car if that's the case, in my book.

uplanderguy · March 2021

It's in the brochure as optional for the 2+2, but says "dealer installed". Seems a little odd.

https://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/pontiac/67perf/bilder/11.jpg

The '68 is the last big Pontiac I liked a lot. At the time I didn't like the '70 at all but I've grown to like it since I just don't see them anywhere. It'd have to be a Ventura, Executive, or Bonneville Brougham, just something lower-volume original production than the others.

ab348 · March 2021

Great minds think alike, as I immediately went to the brochure site and saw the same thing you did. So I stand corrected.

andre1969 · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
Boy, could women get away with skirts like that now? LOL

I would've enjoyed some girls I knew in HS wearing a skirt like that!

Probably not many tattoos or piercings back then either.

I watched that show daily in the summers in that period. My Dad came home for lunch every day from 11-12 (worked one mile away) and we'd all watch it after lunch.

That gave me a bit of a flashback. When my Grandmom was working, she worked at a local hospital called Glenn Dale Hospital, that was maybe two miles away. My Mom worked there too for a bit. For lunch, Grandmom, Mom, and a couple of their co-workers would pile into the car, come back to Grandmom's, and watch "The Young and the Restless". I think it was only a half-hour show back then, so they could do it pretty easily.

One of those ladies came to Grandmom's funeral in 2015, and got up to say a few words. She had mentioned her fond memories of doing the "Young and the Restless" lunch trip, and thought back on it nostalgically. At that point it would have been the late 60s/early 70's, so it was easily a 40+ year old memory for her.

I also have some fond memories, as a kid, of watching "The Price is Right" and other game shows over summer break, and other holidays. Normally, from 9-11 I'd do the I Love Lucy/Andy Griffith//Bewitched lineup, but I do remember TPIR, and Wheel of Fortune as well. I remember on Wheel of Fortune, where they used to have the format where the winner went shopping after winning the puzzle, I used to go through the Montgomery Ward catalog and pretend it was me that won the price, and I was using it to go shopping. I used to think I was a weird kid because of that, but then years later, one of my friends said he used to do that as well, as a kid! Heck, if nothing else, I guess it helped us with math.

andre1969 · March 2021

As much as I hate badge-engineering, I will confess something. That Sunbird wagon actually isn't a bad looking little car, in my opinion. I think it definitely looks better than the Cavalier.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I'm vague on this, but did the Pontiac use a different engine than the Cavalier? I'm thinking the Buick and Olds variants did. Again, I was working a real job then and will use that as an excuse for not knowing like I would something a decade older.

xwesx · March 2021

With all these confessions today, everything I thought I knew to be true is starting to shake.

andre1969 · March 2021

sda said:
How did and what motivated you to buy the DeSoto? Those fins and triple tail lights rock.

There's a bit of a back story, so it might get a bit drawn out, so here goes. In the summer of '78 my Granddad bought a wrecked '53 DeSoto Firedome from his brother-in-law, and took me with him to a big junkyard, to scrounge around for parts for it. I was 8 at the time. That was probably the first time I became aware of what a DeSoto was.

I was 13 when "Christine" came out. I got my Mom to take me to see it, twice. Also got Grandmom and Granddad to take me as well. That movie got me really turned on to the 1958 Plymouth, specifically. But it also really got me wondering what a '58 Dodge, DeSoto, or Chrysler looked like. In those pre-internet days, it wasn't like there was a whole lot of car pictures out there. Granddad also had those big blue "Motor's" repair manuals in his garage. For vehicle identification, they would show the grilles of the cars. For some cars, they would only show the grille, but for others they would show the grille and headlights. For the '57 DeSoto, they only showed the bumper/grille combo, a piece that looks really clean and simple, almost futuristic. So, it always had me wondering what a '57 DeSoto looked like. I guess I sort of had some clue, because I was able to use one of those repair manuals to ID the '59 DeSoto in the closing credits of "Leave it to Beaver", and also the one that gets the "flame job" in 1982's "The Road Warrior".

For Christmas of '85, my Mom got me a book, "The Complete History of Chrysler Corporation: 1924 to 1985", and it had a lot of good pictures in it, so I finally got to see what a '57 DeSoto looked like, and at the age of 15, decided I wanted one. Although to be fair I would have been happy with a '58.

Somehow I found out about the National DeSoto Club, when I was 18, and joined it. There was a local chapter, the Maryland DeSoto Owner's club, that always had a pretty good turnout at a local car show at the Laurel, MD racetrack every summer. I joined them too, and hung around with them occasionally, although most of those people were a bit out of my age range. Anyway, in the summer of 1990, at that car show, one of them told me about a '57 Firedome they heard about for sale near York, PA. I was able to get the information, called the owner, drove up, looked at it, and fell in love. I was living at my Grandom's at the time, and at first she said hell no, that she didn't want it around the house. But, she caved. She drove me up, we did the paperwork, I bought the car, but we put it in Grandmom's name initially, to save on insurance, and she followed me home.

I forget what year we finally put the car over into my name. I know it was after my divorce in 1996, but before Grandmom gave up driving in 1999. One thing I remember, about my divorce, was that my ex-wife's Mom took her to see a divorce lawyer, and the Mom let it slip that I had 5 cars. The lawyer must have smelled money, because my ex-wife mentioned "Well, we're going to change that, real quick!"

I remember telling her to remind the lawyer that those cars are (1) a DeSoto that's titled in Grandmom's name, (2) a '69 Bonneville that eats starters and was currently dead in Grandmom's yard, (3) a 1967 Catalina convertible that's not really worth *that* much, (4) a '68 Dart with over 300,000 miles on it, and (5) an '88 LeBaron that I bought from my uncle, but hadn't paid him yet, and was about 30,000 miles overdue for its timing belt replacement.

For some reason, the lawyer lost interest after that.

sda · March 2021

andre1969 said:

uplanderguy said:
Boy, could women get away with skirts like that now? LOL

I would've enjoyed some girls I knew in HS wearing a skirt like that!

Probably not many tattoos or piercings back then either.

I watched that show daily in the summers in that period. My Dad came home for lunch every day from 11-12 (worked one mile away) and we'd all watch it after lunch.
That gave me a bit of a flashback. When my Grandmom was working, she worked at a local hospital called Glenn Dale Hospital, that was maybe two miles away. My Mom worked there too for a bit. For lunch, Grandmom, Mom, and a couple of their co-workers would pile into the car, come back to Grandmom's, and watch "The Young and the Restless". I think it was only a half-hour show back then, so they could do it pretty easily.

One of those ladies came to Grandmom's funeral in 2015, and got up to say a few words. She had mentioned her fond memories of doing the "Young and the Restless" lunch trip, and thought back on it nostalgically. At that point it would have been the late 60s/early 70's, so it was easily a 40+ year old memory for her.

I also have some fond memories, as a kid, of watching "The Price is Right" and other game shows over summer break, and other holidays. Normally, from 9-11 I'd do the I Love Lucy/Andy Griffith//Bewitched lineup, but I do remember TPIR, and Wheel of Fortune as well. I remember on Wheel of Fortune, where they used to have the format where the winner went shopping after winning the puzzle, I used to go through the Montgomery Ward catalog and pretend it was me that won the price, and I was using it to go shopping. I used to think I was a weird kid because of that, but then years later, one of my friends said he used to do that as well, as a kid! Heck, if nothing else, I guess it helped us with math.

Mom came home for lunch everyday and ate lunch with my grandmother who lived with them. The soaps on CBS were their favorite. My grandmother would call the Young and the Restless the Young and the Wreckless!

andre1969 · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
I'm vague on this, but did the Pontiac use a different engine than the Cavalier? I'm thinking the Buick and Olds variants did. Again, I was working a real job then and will use that as an excuse for not knowing like I would something a decade older.

I think they mixed and matched engines, where the Cavalier and Sunbird might have shared some, but not others. For instance, I tend to remember the J2000/Sunbirds being more likely to be OHC, versus OHV for the Cavalier.

Looking at 1982, it looks like all four of them used a 112 CID, but my book says "OHV" for the Cavalier, "OHC" for the J2000, but doesn't specify for the Skyhawk or Firenza. I think 112 CID comes out to 1.8 liters, doesn't it? At some point there was a 2.0 version, which I think was 121 CID, and an enlargement of the 112. But I think it was only OHV. But then I seem to recall another 1.8, like a 109 CID, that was OHC, and came from Brazil? And at some point, I think that one got turbocharged.

**Edit: I just looked again. Looks like the Cimarron used a 121 CID/2.0 for 1982, and then that engine's availability got expanded for 1983.

texases · March 2021

Yeah, a quick check of wiki indicated a lot of mixing and matching of engines across all the brands. Chevy didn't get the turbo ones, though.

ab348 · March 2021

fintail said:
I like seeing the old styles, and guessing old prices if I actually watch it. And seeing some old products - old electronics are fun, and even some food products can be amusing (last night saw Golden Grain boxed macaroni - I loved that when I was a little kid, I think it hasn't been made in 30 years).

Rath bacon, Kal Kan pet food (same product for cats and dogs according to the label!), Creamettes macaroni, Staley syrup.

sda · March 2021

andre1969 said:

uplanderguy said:
I'm vague on this, but did the Pontiac use a different engine than the Cavalier? I'm thinking the Buick and Olds variants did. Again, I was working a real job then and will use that as an excuse for not knowing like I would something a decade older.
I think they mixed and matched engines, where the Cavalier and Sunbird might have shared some, but not others. For instance, I tend to remember the J2000/Sunbirds being more likely to be OHC, versus OHV for the Cavalier.

Looking at 1982, it looks like all four of them used a 112 CID, but my book says "OHV" for the Cavalier, "OHC" for the J2000, but doesn't specify for the Skyhawk or Firenza. I think 112 CID comes out to 1.8 liters, doesn't it? At some point there was a 2.0 version, which I think was 121 CID, and an enlargement of the 112. But I think it was only OHV. But then I seem to recall another 1.8, like a 109 CID, that was OHC, and came from Brazil? And at some point, I think that one got turbocharged.

**Edit: I just looked again. Looks like the Cimarron used a 121 CID/2.0 for 1982, and then that engine's availability got expanded for 1983.

Did Cadillac add the 2.0 in the 82 as a running change? My 82 Cimarron had the weakling 1.8 litre, but it had the 4 sp manual transmission. Still horribly underpowered. I bought it used thus the tacked on hood ornament and whitewall tires.
Funny thing thou, I paid $5200 and sold it for $6k 4 months later (1985).

texases · March 2021

My neighbor bought a Cavalier wagon in about '82 with the AT, he was VERY disappointed that he averaged around 16 mpg. I bet he had to keep his foot in it.

sda · March 2021

texases said:
My neighbor bought a Cavalier wagon in about '82 with the AT, he was VERY disappointed that he averaged around 16 mpg. I bet he had to keep his foot in it.

I seem to recall getting 21-23 mpg. Even with the manual a heavy foot was needed to keep it moving. With the 4 sp manual, there was a huge gap between a normal 3rd gear and 4th which was overdrive. Maintaining speed over 50 on any sort of incline often meant shifting down to 3rd and screaming up the hill.

andre1969 · March 2021

sda said:
Did Cadillac add the 2.0 in the 82 as a running change? My 82 Cimarron had the weakling 1.8 litre, but it had the 4 sp manual transmission. Still horribly underpowered. I bought it used thus the tacked on hood ornament and whitewall tires.

Oops...I just went back and double checked my auto encyclopedia. Time to up my eyeglass prescription!

The 1.8 was 1982, and the 2.0 was 1983. I guess I was just looking at the wrong row in the book. Or, maybe I'm going dyslexic. Damn GM for making a 112 CID, and then a 121!

I have heard that fuel economy was not a strong suit, of the early J-cars. My 1985 Consumer Guide tested a Cavalier sedan and they weren't overly thrilled with it. Still, they didn't totally hate the car. In summary they said "This loaded CS sedan came to $11,233, which is a lot of money for a Cavalier, but still competitive with comparable Japanese rivals. The main shortcomings were the leisurely performance and mediocre mileage of the 4-cylinder engine."

uplanderguy · March 2021

Yeah, I remember the 2.0 coming out for '83 model year, and was considered a much-needed improvement. I seem to remember some engine being made in Brazil, but not used in the Chevy. Of course the Brazil part irked me at the time, LOL.

texases · March 2021

That's over $27,000 in 2021 $$. WOW...

uplanderguy · March 2021

$11,233 sounds like an awful lot for a CS, which was still pretty bargain-basement inside and out. I'm surprised it came to that much; I could maybe expect that for a CL. As I've noted, our '84 Monte Carlo 305 4-barrel with A/C, cruise, tilt wheel, Rally Wheels, and split front seats stickered at $11,409.

fintail · March 2021

I think our 85 Tempo GLX was around 11K new, and it was loaded car, I think with every option but the digital stereo. I anyway considered a Tempo at least a mild upgrade from a Cavalier.

Kal Kan, I've seen that in 70s TPiRs as well - long gone, I suspect. IIRC my paternal grandmother fed her mean poodles that brand. Now immortalized to the point where a label is reproduced for a movie prop:

andre1969 · March 2021

Looks like an '85 Cavalier CS 4-door sedan started at $7038. Throw on destination ($370), a 3-speed automatic($425), and a/c ($645), and that got you up to around $8478. Years ago, I had gone through this book, and spec'ed out various cars, the way I would want them, to see what the prices would have come out to. I'd put a little dash by the option I picked, added it all up, and wrote it in. I had spec'ed a Cavalier CS up to a bit over $11,000. However, I picked the 2.8 V6, but in retrospect I don't know if that was available with a 4-door back then. It may have only been offered on the Z-24.

As for the CL option, it only added $275 to the cost of the car. But, if it got rid of that cheap cloth on the seats and the plastic slabs on the door panels, it was money well spent!

texases · March 2021

This is a good example of how cars really haven't gotten much more expensive once inflation is accounted for. Average prices paid have outpaced inflation, but that's because folks are buying fancier, better equipped cars, on average.

sda · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
Yeah, I remember the 2.0 coming out for '83 model year, and was considered a much-needed improvement. I seem to remember some engine being made in Brazil, but not used in the Chevy. Of course the Brazil part irked me at the time, LOL.

Initially the 2.0 was a revised version of the 1.8. It made the same hp but had more torque and fuel injection. The 1.8 had a 2bbl carb.

stickguy · March 2021

a bit of an oddball mix today. First an 86-90 vintage Supra. Looked in OK shape. I hated them compared to the early 80s wedge models.

then the early 70s came back. A well worn F series PU (maybe 100 still back then?) somewhere close to 1970 I think. And a 2 door 280 SEL (big coupe) Mercedes, same basic vintage. Pre-bumper.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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