I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

uplanderguy · March 2021

I'm trying to remember what $2,600 in options would've gotten you on a Cavalier CS on top of automatic and A/C 36 years ago!

xwesx · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
I'm trying to remember what $2,600 in options would've gotten you on a Cavalier CS on top of automatic and A/C 36 years ago!

A lot of bling on a car of questionable quality.

fintail · March 2021

Makes me think of my mom's Tempo, which I think was over 3K more than a base one. To be fair, a base Tempo could be really basic, probably as basic as a base Cavalier.

Her car had auto, AC, power windows/locks/seat, cruise, remote mirrors, plush interior, console, cassette stereo, more gauges, vanity mirrors and map light, chrome grille slats, wheels, etc.

I recall there were Daewoo Lanos where you could get leather, sunroof, wheels, etc.

xwesx said:

A lot of bling on a car of questionable quality.

tjc78 · March 2021

My Grandparent’s neighbor in the 80s had a very loaded Cavalier. Power everything, cruise, and a cassette deck! Those were all pretty expensive options back then.

andre1969 · March 2021

With the '85 Cavalier, here's how I spec'ed it out:
$7038: base price of CS 4-door sedan
$370 destination
$560 2.8 V6 (although in retrospect I don't know if you could get this in a sedan back then)
$645 Air conditioning
$425 3-speed automatic
$21 optional axle ratio (doesn't say what it is though)
$26 heavy duty battery
$56 bumper guards
$275 CL equipment package (includes Quiet Sound Group, custom interior, split folding rear seatback (but only in hatchback or wagon), leather wrapped steering wheel (convertible and notchback...which I'm presuming they mean just the notchback coupe and not the 4-door sedan?)
$130 Rear defogger
$180 Power locks
$69 Gauge package (yes, they finally started saying "Gauges" and not "gages". I'd presume the gauge for the alternator didn't say "Gen" anymore, either

)
$99 Tinted glass
$25 Halogen headlights
$40 Heavy duty radiator
$494 AM/FM stereo ETR w/ cassette, seek & scan, clock, graphic equalizer, premium speakers
$40 power trunk release
$225 Power 6-way driver's seat
$175 Cruise control (they called it "speed control", but old habits die hard for me)
$215 Power steering
$115 Tilt wheel
$26 heavy duty suspension
$270 Power windows
$50 Intermittent wipers.

That was pretty much everything they offered, except for the F-41 suspension, which was $49, or a sunroof, that was $310. I probably didn't know what an F-41 was, when I spec'ed this car out decades ago. There were a few other options, but they tended to be specific to the wagon, or convertible, or were a different radio option or something.

Another thing that I just noticed...nowhere in the price listing does it make any mention of a Z-24, not as a separate model, or an option package. But, they show two pictures of a Z-24 hatchback.

Anyway, the way I spec'ed the car, I come out to $11,569 with a V6, $11,009 without. It almost doesn't seem possible, to add another ~$2500 to a Cavalier that already had automatic and a/c, but it's not hard to pile it on!

I doubt too many of them were that loaded up back in the day, although I do remember an acquaintance who had an '86 with the CL package, and it was pretty nice.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I feel about 90% certain you couldn't get a V6 in a Cavalier sedan then. Stepping on the Cimarron's foot there. I remember when they started showing up in the wagons, which I thought was neat. So this was a CL, which has to be the best value on the option list, LOL.

Yeah, 'notchback' then in Chevyland described only the coupe as opposed to the hatchback.

A lot of bling on a car of questionable quality.

I know they were built in NE OH, but here in crusty, rusty NE OH, I saw many Cavaliers of this general vintage being used for decades. This might have been the ol' 'perception versus reality' thing.

imidazol97 · March 2021

Young guy at the local quick market has one just like this in color and style.

Tailpipe hangs a little low underneath but otherwise, looks great. I
suspect these cover several years and are hard to tell apart.

By Vogey2002 at English Wikipedia Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=11813218

uplanderguy · March 2021

Yeah, that style was '95 through '04, maybe partway through '05, model years.

I had a '97 sedan that I drove for 129.6K miles with nothing but maintenance, and an '02 coupe I drove for 112K. I got rid of it mostly because I wanted a new car, but also the check engine light never came on so it wouldn't pass emissions check in my county. A $500 repair. Both my Cavaliers were 5-speeds.

The sedan looked like an egg I always thought, but I think the coupe looked not-cheap for a cheap car. To my subjective eyes it looked nicer than the Escort in that price range.

Mine resembled the above but was the one-year 2002 really deep dark green, and mine had the silver aluminum wheels (not polished) and a very small, subtle spoiler on the decklid. It looked new after six OH winters sitting outside all the time.

Those wheels on the red car I believe are the Z24 wheels even though I don't believe that car is a Z24.

I have a grumpy older bachelor friend who refused to ride with me to a swap meet in PA in the back seat of my car due to "no leg room". He was fine riding so in my friend's Lexus SC380. I pointed out the dimensions that showed the Cavalier had virtually the same rear seat legroom (perhaps even a little more). He didn't care. His mind was made up already, LOL. He's one of those guys who calls and asks if you want to go somewhere, then says "Can you drive?", LOL.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Well, I was wrong. The '85 brochure shows the V6 available in the coupes and sedan as well. I seem to first remember seeing a real one in maybe an '87 or '88 station wagon--outside of a Z24.

I bought a new '85 Celebrity Eurosport coupe, pretty loaded (AC, PW, buckets, console, cruise, 4-speed automatic, 2.8MFIV6, aluminum wheels that were a copy of the Citation X-11 wheels, Goodyear Eagle tires) and my sticker was mid-12's. Only car I ever ordered.

Although it was a box like all Celebritys, I always liked that I got that dark plum color but NOT with the silver two-tone on the lower body. The interior was the same color, in cloth. It looked nice I thought.

tjc78 · March 2021

It was many years ago but I’m pretty certain the Cavalier I was talking about was a sedan and V6. I’m guessing it was an 85 or 86 because she got it wrong the same time Pop got his 85 Town Car.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I'm always amazed when somebody gets something very basic so wrong in an online article for which I assume someone is being paid. Here, it says Edsel Ford owned an Edsel. Uh, he died in 1943.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2021/03/03/daily-briefing-new-ceo-and-president-at-americas-automotive-trust-edsels-edsel-and-ford-woody-wagon-to-cross-the-block

explorerx4 · March 2021

Probably the auction house trying to over hype the cars to be sold.

ab348 · March 2021

I believe they are talking about Edsel II, still very much alive. Those two wagons are his.

explorerx4 · March 2021

The article was updated and corrected as per the comments.

fintail · March 2021

Those cars are a case of the facelift not being an improvement. The 95-02 cars were decent enough looking, especially the coupes, but that update for 2003, woof. The Sunfire wore it even worse.

imidazol97 said:
Young guy at the local quick market has one just like this in color and style.

Tailpipe hangs a little low underneath but otherwise, looks great. I
suspect these cover several years and are hard to tell apart.

uplanderguy · March 2021

The '03 with the wide gray plastic center emblem on the decklid, stunk. The '04 with only the gold bowtie was cleaner.

I know they had to differentiate the Pontiac from the Chevy, but I like the teardrop quarter windows on the Chevy which they cut off at the back on the Pontiac.

sda · March 2021

andre1969 said:
With the '85 Cavalier, here's how I spec'ed it out:
$7038: base price of CS 4-door sedan
$370 destination
$560 2.8 V6 (although in retrospect I don't know if you could get this in a sedan back then)
$645 Air conditioning
$425 3-speed automatic
$21 optional axle ratio (doesn't say what it is though)
$26 heavy duty battery
$56 bumper guards
$275 CL equipment package (includes Quiet Sound Group, custom interior, split folding rear seatback (but only in hatchback or wagon), leather wrapped steering wheel (convertible and notchback...which I'm presuming they mean just the notchback coupe and not the 4-door sedan?)
$130 Rear defogger
$180 Power locks
$69 Gauge package (yes, they finally started saying "Gauges" and not "gages". I'd presume the gauge for the alternator didn't say "Gen" anymore, either )
$99 Tinted glass
$25 Halogen headlights
$40 Heavy duty radiator
$494 AM/FM stereo ETR w/ cassette, seek & scan, clock, graphic equalizer, premium speakers
$40 power trunk release
$225 Power 6-way driver's seat
$175 Cruise control (they called it "speed control", but old habits die hard for me)
$215 Power steering
$115 Tilt wheel
$26 heavy duty suspension
$270 Power windows
$50 Intermittent wipers.

That was pretty much everything they offered, except for the F-41 suspension, which was $49, or a sunroof, that was $310. I probably didn't know what an F-41 was, when I spec'ed this car out decades ago. There were a few other options, but they tended to be specific to the wagon, or convertible, or were a different radio option or something.

Another thing that I just noticed...nowhere in the price listing does it make any mention of a Z-24, not as a separate model, or an option package. But, they show two pictures of a Z-24 hatchback.

Anyway, the way I spec'ed the car, I come out to $11,569 with a V6, $11,009 without. It almost doesn't seem possible, to add another ~$2500 to a Cavalier that already had automatic and a/c, but it's not hard to pile it on!

I doubt too many of them were that loaded up back in the day, although I do remember an acquaintance who had an '86 with the CL package, and it was pretty nice.

I remember looking at an Olds Firenza 4dr/V6/4sp in 86(?). It was silver and fairly loaded approx $12k IIRC. I was tempted to drive it and make an offer, but that was still a lot of money for me early in my working career.

Michaell · March 2021

sda said:

andre1969 said:
With the '85 Cavalier, here's how I spec'ed it out:
$7038: base price of CS 4-door sedan
$370 destination
$560 2.8 V6 (although in retrospect I don't know if you could get this in a sedan back then)
$645 Air conditioning
$425 3-speed automatic
$21 optional axle ratio (doesn't say what it is though)
$26 heavy duty battery
$56 bumper guards
$275 CL equipment package (includes Quiet Sound Group, custom interior, split folding rear seatback (but only in hatchback or wagon), leather wrapped steering wheel (convertible and notchback...which I'm presuming they mean just the notchback coupe and not the 4-door sedan?)
$130 Rear defogger
$180 Power locks
$69 Gauge package (yes, they finally started saying "Gauges" and not "gages". I'd presume the gauge for the alternator didn't say "Gen" anymore, either )
$99 Tinted glass
$25 Halogen headlights
$40 Heavy duty radiator
$494 AM/FM stereo ETR w/ cassette, seek & scan, clock, graphic equalizer, premium speakers
$40 power trunk release
$225 Power 6-way driver's seat
$175 Cruise control (they called it "speed control", but old habits die hard for me)
$215 Power steering
$115 Tilt wheel
$26 heavy duty suspension
$270 Power windows
$50 Intermittent wipers.

That was pretty much everything they offered, except for the F-41 suspension, which was $49, or a sunroof, that was $310. I probably didn't know what an F-41 was, when I spec'ed this car out decades ago. There were a few other options, but they tended to be specific to the wagon, or convertible, or were a different radio option or something.

Another thing that I just noticed...nowhere in the price listing does it make any mention of a Z-24, not as a separate model, or an option package. But, they show two pictures of a Z-24 hatchback.

Anyway, the way I spec'ed the car, I come out to $11,569 with a V6, $11,009 without. It almost doesn't seem possible, to add another ~$2500 to a Cavalier that already had automatic and a/c, but it's not hard to pile it on!

I doubt too many of them were that loaded up back in the day, although I do remember an acquaintance who had an '86 with the CL package, and it was pretty nice.
I remember looking at an Olds Firenza 4dr/V6/4sp in 86(?). It was silver and fairly loaded approx $12k IIRC. I was tempted to drive it and make an offer, but that was still a lot of money for me early in my working career.

In October or November of 1985 I bought a year old Honda Accord (also an '85 model year). Hatch, 5-speed, pretty much loaded.

Was $8650 before TTL. Wonder how much it sold for, when new?

xwesx · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
I feel about 90% certain you couldn't get a V6 in a Cavalier sedan then. Stepping on the Cimarron's foot there. I remember when they started showing up in the wagons, which I thought was neat. So this was a CL, which has to be the best value on the option list, LOL.

Yeah, 'notchback' then in Chevyland described only the coupe as opposed to the hatchback.

A lot of bling on a car of questionable quality.

I know they were built in NE OH, but here in crusty, rusty NE OH, I saw many Cavaliers of this general vintage being used for decades. This might have been the ol' 'perception versus reality' thing.

I may have my models wrong....

I knew two families in the early 90's who had, I think, gen-2 variants of the Cavalier. One had a Pontiac and the other was an Oldsmobile. The cars looked nearly identical to one another other than a few minor details, and both seemed to just have one annoying problem after another. Generally not major things, but they always seemed to have a gripe.

The Pontiac's owner was the mother of my best friend, and, once we were of driving age, I remember one night when we were in Walla Walla (about a half-hour drive away) and the water pump failed. His mom was not happy about that at all (she was sure we were up to mischief with her car!), and I'm not sure that my suggestions about us actually doing her a favor since she wasn't the one stranded with it won me any points.

xwesx · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
Yeah, that style was '95 through '04, maybe partway through '05, model years.

I had a '97 sedan that I drove for 129.6K miles with nothing but maintenance, and an '02 coupe I drove for 112K. I got rid of it mostly because I wanted a new car, but also the check engine light never came on so it wouldn't pass emissions check in my county. A $500 repair. Both my Cavaliers were 5-speeds.

The sedan looked like an egg I always thought, but I think the coupe looked not-cheap for a cheap car. To my subjective eyes it looked nicer than the Escort in that price range.

Agreed! Cavaliers were all the rage in the late 90s as the 'cool car' to own amongst my college peers.

explorerx4 · March 2021

If you forward to about 8 minute mark, I'll bet you have never heard a SBC sound like this one.
Has a flat plane crank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUD9ynr6zBs

Michaell · March 2021

A co-worker of mine bought a new '86 Z-24 back in the day. Black with red accents and a grey interior, it had the 2.8L V6 (140 HP? - seemed like an awful lot at the time)

My last rental car I had when I was with IBM was also a Cavalier - around 2003, IIRC. Flew to Seattle to teach a class in Bellingham. The Cavalier was a nice car, but I was a little cramped inside of it. I remember going up I-5, a little over the speed limit, when I encountered an overpass with a state trooper parked in the middle of it, pointing a radar gun at our lanes. Not sure I scrubbed off enough speed, but managed to not get pulled over.

tjc78 · March 2021

This era of Z24 was a good looking vehicle IMO.

Picked a blue one for Fintail.

Michaell · March 2021

Who remembers the Z26?

tjc78 · March 2021

Beretta!

fintail · March 2021

When I was in high school, I knew a kid with a maybe 86 Z24, blue and silver like this pic, but different wheels. It was in pristine condition, probably as it wasn't too old (this was in maybe 1994). Never see these anymore:

I'll admit, slight guilty pleasure, especially an earlier one on these wheels (wheels changed maybe with the 1991 facelift?):

tjc78 said:
This era of Z24 was a good looking vehicle IMO.

Picked a blue one for Fintail.

fintail · March 2021

J cars were ubiquitous for maybe 20+ years. When I was a little kid, my best friend's mom had a white Cavalier Type 10 fastback. My uncle had a highly optioned Olds Firenza (I accidentally drained the battery on it by playing with the electronics on a cold day), my paternal grandma had a coupe of Cavalier sedans, other friends of the family had them too, I recall a convertible in white with a tan top, among others.

xwesx said:

I may have my models wrong....

I knew two families in the early 90's who had, I think, gen-2 variants of the Cavalier. One had a Pontiac and the other was an Oldsmobile. The cars looked nearly identical to one another other than a few minor details, and both seemed to just have one annoying problem after another. Generally not major things, but they always seemed to have a gripe.

The Pontiac's owner was the mother of my best friend, and, once we were of driving age, I remember one night when we were in Walla Walla (about a half-hour drive away) and the water pump failed. His mom was not happy about that at all (she was sure we were up to mischief with her car!), and I'm not sure that my suggestions about us actually doing her a favor since she wasn't the one stranded with it won me any points.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Man, I must walk between the raindrops, although I never owned that first-gen Cavalier.

I did like when the Cavalier coupe got that slight fastback roofline with the big backlight that made me think "'61 Impala bubbletop". But as the years wore on, they tacked more "rubber baby buggy bumper" trim on it, yuck. I know that was the style in general then.

I was a fan of the Cavalier wagon, lots of utility for comparatively low price out there in my memory. I tried to talk my wife into a new 5-speed '90 Cavalier wagon but at age 25 she didn't want a wagon at any price and chose the Corsica, which was similar in price as I recall.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I keep going back on FB to look at that black '67 Pontiac 2+2 I posted here a few days back. I am just smitten with that car. I love low-mileage originals, and low production models, and that checks both of the boxes for me. The basic '67 Pontiac styling is nice too (I know andre agrees!). My smitten-ness is an overall function of my age probably.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I had a bright red one of these, '89 Beretta GT, new--camel colored corduroy interior. No spoiler (I tend overall to despise spoilers). I drove it for 74,900 miles and traded it on a new '93 Caprice Classic. It drove nice, but the OEM muffler didn't last very long. I thought that for the price, these were nice-looking cars and I liked that they weren't shared with other divisions. I hated the later ones with various cladding and tack-ons. The Corsica, at least the early ones, looked nice for the price too IMHO--at least before someone in Styling decided to cantilever the taillights.

This was a car that Ford didn't market anything against, at least in my memory. I distinctly remember that at some point, the Corsica/Beretta were the best-selling car in America (considered the same line of cars apparently). EDIT: I guess the Tempo/Topaz coupes were in this class, but I'll leave my snarky styling opinions out here.

The car in the pic is a 2.8MFIV6 with 5-speed. Mine was an automatic.

andre1969 · March 2021

A friend of mine in high school and college had an '85 Cavalier CS 4-door sedan. His family had bought it for him, used, around 1987, and he drove it until 1994. Eventually it succumbed to electrical issues, and he didn't want to deal with it, so it got either junked or donated. I know it at least made it to over 100,000 miles, and he never had any truly catastrophic issues with it. It was just sort of a "use it up and throw it away when you're done" type of car.

After that, his parents let him use a late 80's Tercel 4-door hatchback. Ironically, it succumbed to engine sludge, years before "sludge" became such a household word! I forget how long that one lasted him, but it was less than a year. I didn't see him for awhile, but then in '95 I saw him with a brand-new red and silver Trans Am!

Oh, as for the '67 Pontiac 2+2, yeah, I'm usually not going to complain about the style of a '67 Pontiac

Although, I will say, I think those vents on the fender would have looked better if they were mounted lower, underneath the horizontal chrome strip. But it's a gorgeous enough car I'll excuse that little faux pas

uplanderguy · March 2021

I agree totally, and as you know I don't even like vents lower on the body! But I can't get over the condition, mileage, and low production. I see '65 and '66 2+2's, and they're beautiful cars, but I never see '67's. I am in automotive love (or lust) now! I like GM's full-sizers those '67 and '68 years with the big sweeping fastback roofs.

andre1969 · March 2021

I think the last time I saws a '67 2+2, it was a convertible, in sort of a medium metallic blue. It was at the August car show they have in Macungie, PA, near Allentown. I probably have a picture of it somewhere, but can't remember what year I took it.

sda · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
I had a bright red one of these, '89 Beretta GT, new--camel colored corduroy interior. No spoiler (I tend overall to despise spoilers). I drove it for 74,900 miles and traded it on a new '93 Caprice Classic. It drove nice, but the OEM muffler didn't last very long. I thought that for the price, these were nice-looking cars and I liked that they weren't shared with other divisions. I hated the later ones with various cladding and tack-ons. The Corsica, at least the early ones, looked nice for the price too IMHO--at least before someone in Styling decided to cantilever the taillights.

This was a car that Ford didn't market anything against, at least in my memory. I distinctly remember that at some point, the Corsica/Beretta were the best-selling car in America (considered the same line of cars apparently). EDIT: I guess the Tempo/Topaz coupes were in this class, but I'll leave my snarky styling opinions out here.

The car in the pic is a 2.8MFIV6 with 5-speed. Mine was an automatic.

I liked the Beretta and that color is really nice. A friend had a white Beretta V6 with the 5sp. I drove it once and if I recall, it was not a very smooth shifting mechanism, kind of balky and notchy. It had a smooth clutch however, much nicer than the clutch that took a lot of effort (heavy) in my Sunbird.

uplanderguy · March 2021

The car in the pic has the maroon corduroy interior, which I like and don't remember seeing very often. Seems like 90% of them were gray inside.

sda · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
The car in the pic has the maroon corduroy interior, which I like and don't remember seeing very often. Seems like 90% of them were gray inside.

His was white with the dark blue interior. It was a good color combination.

andre1969 · March 2021

As for the Beretta, it's kind of hard to find a close equivalent to it at Ford or Mopar. If you classify it as Chevy's compact coupe, basically taking over for the Citation and the Nova before it, then it would go up against a Tempo coupe or a Reliant coupe. But, I think most people tend to equate the Cavalier as a peer to the Tempo or K-car, while the Beretta, and Corsica, were a bit upscale.

As for sales, my old car book lists them as separate entries, but in 1988, they sold 291,163 Corsicas and 275,098 Berettas. My book also lists 8973 Corsicas and 8072 Berettas for 1987.

For comparison, the Taurus sold about 378,000 units. The Tempo also did quite well in 1988, the first year of that refresh, with about 476,000 sold. For comparison, the Tempo only sold about 282,000 in 1987. The '88 Cavalier did around 330,000 units.

So, if you combine Corsica and Beretta figures for '88, that's about 566K. So, for 1988 at least, it could very well have been #1. I can't think of anything else from the competition in '88 that would have done that well...nothing classified as a car, at least. And while the Japanese were making some serious inroads, they weren't quite THAT high yet. The Accord sold 362,663 in 1988 while the Civic was at 225,543, according to Wikipedia. In those days the Accord was almost untouchable among imports, so I doubt the Camry or Corolla were anywhere near it in sales.

uplanderguy · March 2021

One minor observation about the Accord, although not '80's models I don't think.

Invariably, when I see a car along the road with a broken ball joint and the wheel broken off, it's an older Accord.

ab348 · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
One minor observation about the Accord, although not '80's models I don't think.

Invariably, when I see a car along the road with a broken ball joint and the wheel broken off, it's an older Accord.

It is a common failure point on that generation of Hondas. Civics and their Acura equivalents have the same issue. Mostly '90s and early 2000s I think.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Well, those are pretty old cars by now I guess.

uplanderguy · March 2021

The car I see on hooks the most are Ford Focuses, maybe built in the last seven or eight years although I don't follow the various generations of those. To be fair, the Ford dealer is probably one mile from my house, closest car dealer to me so they probably go down my street to get there.

ab348 · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
The car I see on hooks the most are Ford Focuses, maybe built in the last seven or eight years although I don't follow the various generations of those. To be fair, the Ford dealer is probably one mile from my house, closest car dealer to me so they probably go down my street to get there.

Well, they *are* Fords after all, so... {ducks under desk}

fintail · March 2021

I look at a Beretta as a definite step up from a Tempo/Topaz coupe. I recall a good friend of my mom bought a late one, a 95-96, teal, of course.

tjc78 · March 2021

fintail said:
I look at a Beretta as a definite step up from a Tempo/Topaz coupe. I recall a good friend of my mom bought a late one, a 95-96, teal, of course.

I’d agree with that. The Tempo/Topaz did not have a great interior.

Love the color and wheels on the Beretta above.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I remember the sticker on my '89 GT, auto, looked exactly like the maroon one above except for color, AC, PW, PDL, cruise, AM/FM stereo w/cassette, floor mats, stickered at the bottom for $13,477.

kyfdx · March 2021

I think everything short of a Yugo is a step up from the Tempo.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I do remember dealers around me here selling the Tempo coupes as loss-leaders in the later years. The selling prices advertised seemed hard-to-believe.

tjc78 · March 2021

kyfdx said:
I think everything short of a Yugo is a step up from the Tempo.

Oh they weren’t that bad... are you forgetting about the Chevette or early Escorts?

kyfdx · March 2021

tjc78 said:

kyfdx said:
I think everything short of a Yugo is a step up from the Tempo.
Oh they weren’t that bad... are you forgetting about the Chevette or early Escorts?

Okay, maybe a Chevette. But, the Escort was a better car than the Tempo (less weight to haul)

uplanderguy · March 2021

Another comment on that '67 2+2--sheesh, I looked at a Pontiac site that says only 1,768 built combined, in hardtop AND convertible. Man, that's one unit more than 1964 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawks, which were all hardtops and only built from August through December 1963.

My lust for that 2+2 just keeps going up!

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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