I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

kyfdx · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
Another comment on that '67 2+2--sheesh, I looked at a Pontiac site that says only 1,768 built combined, in hardtop AND convertible. Man, that's one unit more than 1964 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawks, which were all hardtops and only built from August through December 1963.

My lust for that 2+2 just keeps going up!

My mother had a '67 Bonneville coupe. White over White leather. Fond memories of that one.

ab348 · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
Another comment on that '67 2+2--sheesh, I looked at a Pontiac site that says only 1,768 built combined, in hardtop AND convertible. Man, that's one unit more than 1964 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawks, which were all hardtops and only built from August through December 1963.

My lust for that 2+2 just keeps going up!

I'm sure that makes them even more rare than the coveted red dog-dish bubbletop '62 Chevy BelAir 409!!!

andre1969 · March 2021

My old car book doesn't break out 2+2 production. It merely puts an asterisk by Catalina hardtop and convertible production, and then in the footnotes says "includes models equipped with 2+2 option package"

Overall, they built 77,932 hardtop coupes and 10,033 convertibles. So, if the same proportioning applied to the 2+2, that would probably only be around 202 2+2 convertibles, and 1566 hardtops. So, either way, a pretty rare car!

fintail · March 2021

I think the coupes cost relatively nothing to make later in the run - all tooling was paid for ages ago, and they only ever had a minor facelift. At least the sedans had a more significant update for MY 1988, and could be had in V6 and even AWD variants, but the coupe had few changes in its 11 model year run. I bet the last ones could be had pretty cheap indeed, but by 1994 were like buying a new A-body, a very old "new" car.

For Tempos being bad, I think they were hit and miss in terms of build quality and longevity. Some had a 5 digit odometer for a reason, others soldiered on. Ours didn't get quirky until 150K miles or so (electrical hiccups here and there, and a leaking valve cover gasket), but for a 1985 domestic car. that's not bad.

uplanderguy said:
I do remember dealers around me here selling the Tempo coupes as loss-leaders in the later years. The selling prices advertised seemed hard-to-believe.

sda · March 2021

I have a good friend who bought new and actually got over 100k out of an 88 Hyundai Excel. It was still in service when they traded it for a Tempo, not sure what year. They drove the Tempo for many years and 100k+ without issue. He told me the dealer was amazed at the Hyundai being able to achieve the miles it had on it. Many didn't make it much past 60k.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Saw this '67 2+2 originally from PA, in a color I always loved. The skirts were optional and I wouldn't have ordered them. I will say, the interior door panels underwhelm me for a car of this type, but that's another thing I could suck up!

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1967-pontiac-22

P.S. ab348--I bet a '62 Bel Air bubbletop with any engine BUT a 409 now would be far-rarer than a '67 2+2, LOL!

ab348 · March 2021

One thing about a lot of '60s Pontiacs that always annoyed me was that they seemed to cheap out a lot on their interior trims. Aside from the door panels on that 2+2 you noted, look at the seat upholstery. It is that same electro-embossed vinyl they also used on the 1st-gen Firebirds and GTO/LeMans, which just looks cheap.

ab348 · March 2021

This pic appeared on my local FB pictures group. Unlike a lot of stuff that gets posted there, this one is appearing for the first time. It was taken in front of a dealer here that I had never heard of previously, who gave up the business and sold the property for development in the early '60s. The truck is a Fargo, a Canadian-made Dodge clone. The apartment I lived in for most of the 1990s was located on this site.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I can handle the seating in that 2+2. I still like the bucket-seat in the shorter wheelbase with fastback roof concept, and again, love the rarity. The Impala had the longer armrest with the flat chrome handle that pulled up, more design in the upper panel, and carpet in the lower. But those are all things the Pontiac buyer would've gotten in the Grand Prix or Bonneville.

I'd like that turquoise one a lot better if the owner hadn't added the GTO parking lights in the grille!

andre1969 · March 2021

The door panels on that 2+2 are definitely a step up from the ones in my '67 Catalina, so they at least did a little something to dress up the interior, with the 2+2 option.

I guess the Catalina was sort of stuck in a rough spot where it had to be the cheapest Pontiac, and appeal a bit on price, but at the same time, give you some reason for moving up from a Chevy. So, you'd get a nicer dash (most years, although I guess you can debate this one depending on your preferences) and a bigger standard engine, but give up a bit on seats and door panel trim.

uplanderguy · March 2021

'67 is probably one of the very few years I'd opine that the full-size Chevy dash may be nicer than the Pontiac dash. Subjective only of course.

I love the '65 Pontiac dash, but if you didn't get the Bonneville or Grand Prix, you got black vinyl in a whole lot of the dash no matter the color of the rest of the interior. Same with the '66, and in fact, same with the '66 Olds Eighty-Eights too.

But most other years, Pontiac dash gave you woodgrain which most people equated to luxury at the time.

andre1969 · March 2021

sda said:
I have a good friend who bought new and actually got over 100k out of an 88 Hyundai Excel. It was still in service when they traded it for a Tempo, not sure what year. They drove the Tempo for many years and 100k+ without issue. He told me the dealer was amazed at the Hyundai being able to achieve the miles it had on it. Many didn't make it much past 60k.

I think my Mom and stepdad got their '84 Tempo to about 160,000 miles, when they traded on a '91 Stanza. They only got $600 in trade for it. As far as I know, there wasn't anything major wrong with it; it was just a cheap, migh-mile car with little trade in value. My Mom and stepdad did move, in 1989, to Southern MD, and it was far enough from both of their jobs that it was easier for them to commute together...but the round trip was around 130 miles per day. So I think with it getting up in miles, they also just wanted something new for that long commute.

I didn't think much of the car at the time, but fast forward to 1996, when I was going through an expensive divorce and taking on a second job delivering pizzas to keep from going bankrupt, I started thinking that hey, too bad I didn't give them $600 for that car. It would've been better for delivering pizzas than a 300,000 mile '68 Dart V8 that was lucky to get 13 mpg. Although, who knows...a lot could have happened between 1991 and 1996, so it's not a guarantee that Tempo would have still been around.

Interestingly, even in 1994, the Tempo wasn't a bad seller. About 145,000 sedans and 35,000 coupes. I imagine a lot of that was due to the low price. In contrast, the replacement Contour, for 1995, only moved 178,832 total. The Contour did a bit better in '96, with 186,263, but that was where it peaked, and it was gone after 2000.

sda · March 2021

When we lived in central Va my parents commuted 70 miles each way to Richmond. The farm dad bought required more $$ than he anticipated so both found jobs, mom an outside job for the first time since they married. Putting quick and expensive miles on the new 76 Cutlass wagon dad bought a used Datsun 510 wagon with 99k to use as a commuter. It did get better mpg and saved the Cutlass from too many miles.
I lost count how many times I would get a call from them somewhere in between Richmond and our farm to rescue them, the Datsun had broken down. How they managed to get to a phone amazes me, no cell phones then. Dad would get it repaired but it was seriously tired at 156k when dad finally cut bait.

fintail · March 2021

I know I have mentioned it before, the Tempo in our family had around 190K on it when my mom cut it loose (got $600 for it, in 1999). Front ended needed a rebuild, but it was still a strong runner. I recall it had no real issues for its first 100-120K or so, then some suspension consumables started to need replacement - I think it got new shocks and some other bits. I have no memory of it ever receiving a transmission service, but it might have had one in its earlier years. I recall it went through a few mufflers, which seems odd now when they are often a lifetime item. I last saw the car when I visited around 2003-04 I think, parked at a store near my mom's house. The wheels had been changed, but it was obviously the same car, and it still looked relatively clean (I honed my wash/wax OCD on that car). Because of that car, I have a little sentimentality for first gen models. I recall I was fairly proud when we got it, as I like blue cars, it was a nice color combo, and was highly equipped. It also looked modern, which was a big thing with the way cars changed during that time. I have a lot of memories of listening to music in that car, and driving it when I was young. We got lucky with it, I think, as I know others had cars with issues.

kyfdx · March 2021

In my friend’s garage

omarman · March 2021

Far north side Columbus a 1985ish Mercury GM looking very well kept like this one.

andre1969 · March 2021

Last week I had to drive through the old neighborhood where I had my condo. I remembered one street where there were always a few old cars, so I cut through there. It was a nice little nostalgia trip, and certainly didn't disappoint...

In that last pic, the one with the '51 (I think) Ford, there's a car under a cover. That one's a '63 Chevy.

kyfdx · March 2021

Saw a 300ZX just like that, yesterday.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Far north side Columbus a 1985ish Mercury GM looking very well kept like this one.

I was in Columbus yesterday, getting my first shot at a drug store on Parsons Avenue. Sketchy neighborhood but a smooth event. Visited daughter and husband in Grove City afterward.

Two-and-a-half hours from where I live, but Ohio just started giving age 60-64 people shots Thursday and I could get right in at that store. Nothing up here.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Those '49-51 Fords surely must have looked modern at the time. I like the Club Coupe bodystyle best I think it's called. Stude integrated the front fenders for '47, but Ford had completely smooth sides in '49. My parents had a black '50 Ford 'Fordor' 'til '58 I'm told.

I like on the '51 how they chromed that crease on the rear quarters that helps define the shape of the taillights.

sda · March 2021

omarman said:
Far north side Columbus a 1985ish Mercury GM looking very well kept like this one.

That is very similar to dad’s 85 Grand Marquis LS, except his was dark metallic blue. It wasn’t as nice as his 79 Eldorado diesel but it wasn’t troublesome either. Though boxy I think the GM was a handsome car. It was roomy and comfortable and drove better than I expected.

ab348 · March 2021

I found this local newspaper ad on Flickr courtesy of Alden Jewell. A.E. Fowles was the closest car dealer to where I lived growing up and they were a frequent stop for brochure-collecting. They were always quite nice to us kids. They are sadly long gone. Fairley and Stevens is still in business today though, although they have relocated twice since 1960.

stickguy · March 2021

I love how back then it was prestigious to have "station wagon living". Not these days!

explorerx4 · March 2021

@tjc78,
Wonder what he is going to ask for this Lincoln when he sells it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs_WyDcx5wE

tjc78 · March 2021

sda said:

omarman said:
Far north side Columbus a 1985ish Mercury GM looking very well kept like this one.

That is very similar to dad’s 85 Grand Marquis LS, except his was dark metallic blue. It wasn’t as nice as his 79 Eldorado diesel but it wasn’t troublesome either. Though boxy I think the GM was a handsome car. It was roomy and comfortable and drove better than I expected.

I’ve driven the Buick’s, Caddy’s and RWD Chrysler’s of the era. IMO the Panthers were the best. A little firmer (relatively) than the others but still rode really well.

The later 86+ were extremely reliable and they were the first full size domestics with sequential fuel injection.

tjc78 · March 2021

explorerx4 said:
@tjc78,
Wonder what he is going to ask for this Lincoln when he sells it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs_WyDcx5wE

Can’t watch the whole video now, but that thing is clean. Shame it’s a poor color. Looks like original tires.

fintail · March 2021

Unless you have an E63 or RS6

(or even a normal E or perhaps a big Volvo, but those two are closer to "inconspicuous consumption")

stickguy said:
I love how back then it was prestigious to have "station wagon living". Not these days!

fintail · March 2021

Those Meteor grilles remind me of a 63-64 (big) Mercury, never realized that before.

With a 60 Ford wagon being a hen's tooth as it is, I wonder how many 60 Meteor wagons survived. Google search brings up only one apparent modern day photo.

ab348 said:
I found this local newspaper ad on Flickr courtesy of Alden Jewell. A.E. Fowles was the closest car dealer to where I lived growing up and they were a frequent stop for brochure-collecting. They were always quite nice to us kids. They are sadly long gone. Fairley and Stevens is still in business today though, although they have relocated twice since 1960.

andre1969 · March 2021

tjc78 said:

sda said:

omarman said:
Far north side Columbus a 1985ish Mercury GM looking very well kept like this one.

That is very similar to dad’s 85 Grand Marquis LS, except his was dark metallic blue. It wasn’t as nice as his 79 Eldorado diesel but it wasn’t troublesome either. Though boxy I think the GM was a handsome car. It was roomy and comfortable and drove better than I expected.
I’ve driven the Buick’s, Caddy’s and RWD Chrysler’s of the era. IMO the Panthers were the best. A little firmer (relatively) than the others but still rode really well.

The later 86+ were extremely reliable and they were the first full size domestics with sequential fuel injection.

Consumer Reports tested an '85 Grand Marquis and put it up against a 5th Avenue and the newly downsized, FWD Buick Electra, which was being touted as sort of a wave of the future for full-sized cars. Their first pick was the Grand Marquis, although being the cheapskates they are, they suggested getting a Crown Vic instead and saving a few bucks. As a second choice, they suggested one of GM's B-bodies, although they did say that a Caprice didn't ride as well when fully loaded, and its reliability rating of late hadn't been encouraging.

With the Electra, they said that it didn't handle and ride as well as they'd hoped for, and also didn't have high hopes for its reliability. Probably a good call there, as it took a few years to get the bugs worked out of these. With the 5th Ave, it got marked down mainly because it was a midsized car that guzzled like a full-size. They also got irritated by things like the power seat adjustments being hard to reach, because there wasn't much room between the side of the seat and the door. Also, the thick C-pillars, and small-ish, oddly shaped trunk.

Here's the review, in all its glory: https://www.angelfire.com/ca/mikesspot/85CR.html

ab348 · March 2021

Saw this TPIR this morning from January of 1984. This is a nice Monte Carlo, pretty loaded up but sadly with the V-6 instead of the engine it needed. Priced at $11,892, the lady won it.

https://youtu.be/ziy7xbFS5-o

uplanderguy · March 2021

That particularly Monte I can believe is the actual car they are giving away. I've mentioned ours was $11,409, but had the 305 4-barrel. It had the same interior as the car shown (ours was maroon inside though), and ours did not have the pinstriping, power windows, or power door locks shown on this car.

I always liked the old-skool chromed power window and door lock buttons GM used then. I detested when in later years, these buttons were cheesier-looking.

fintail · March 2021

That car looks almost identical to my college roomate's 83 CL (which had a 305 and a TH200/250 that I remember failed around Y2K - he had it replaced with a TH350 I think) . His car also had wire caps, but he always ran it on 90s style small wheels with low profile tires, or a set of wheels from an 80-81 Z28 (which needed spacers). He loved the car, but it eventually ended up living in his dad's barn, the car didn't work well with marriage and a busy job. He eventually sold it, and today it lives on as a lowrider.

tjc78 · March 2021

andre1969 said:

tjc78 said:

sda said:

omarman said:
Far north side Columbus a 1985ish Mercury GM looking very well kept like this one.

That is very similar to dad’s 85 Grand Marquis LS, except his was dark metallic blue. It wasn’t as nice as his 79 Eldorado diesel but it wasn’t troublesome either. Though boxy I think the GM was a handsome car. It was roomy and comfortable and drove better than I expected.
I’ve driven the Buick’s, Caddy’s and RWD Chrysler’s of the era. IMO the Panthers were the best. A little firmer (relatively) than the others but still rode really well.

The later 86+ were extremely reliable and they were the first full size domestics with sequential fuel injection.
Consumer Reports tested an '85 Grand Marquis and put it up against a 5th Avenue and the newly downsized, FWD Buick Electra, which was being touted as sort of a wave of the future for full-sized cars. Their first pick was the Grand Marquis, although being the cheapskates they are, they suggested getting a Crown Vic instead and saving a few bucks. As a second choice, they suggested one of GM's B-bodies, although they did say that a Caprice didn't ride as well when fully loaded, and its reliability rating of late hadn't been encouraging.

With the Electra, they said that it didn't handle and ride as well as they'd hoped for, and also didn't have high hopes for its reliability. Probably a good call there, as it took a few years to get the bugs worked out of these. With the 5th Ave, it got marked down mainly because it was a midsized car that guzzled like a full-size. They also got irritated by things like the power seat adjustments being hard to reach, because there wasn't much room between the side of the seat and the door. Also, the thick C-pillars, and small-ish, oddly shaped trunk.

Here's the review, in all its glory: https://www.angelfire.com/ca/mikesspot/85CR.html

It’s funny that they mentioned the in and out of OD on the Grand Marquis. This was an issue. I had my Town Car adjusted to shift into OD a little higher speed and that fixed it.

uplanderguy · March 2021

On GM automatic OD's of the period, the quadrant had OD/3/2/1 (some had 'D' instead of '3'). I remember being told to leave it in 'D" around town to avoid that. I'm thinking Ford's and Chrysler's didn't have an option to select 'D' or '3', but I'm not certain.

tjc78 · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
On GM automatic OD's of the period, the quadrant had OD/3/2/1 (some had 'D' instead of '3'). I remember being told to leave it in 'D" around town to avoid that. I'm thinking Ford's and Chrysler's didn't have an option to select 'D' or '3', but I'm not certain.

They did. OD/D/1. Chrysler 5th Ave didn’t have OD.

uplanderguy · March 2021

But there wasn't a '2' position then, right? But I guess no one drives around in '2' anyway.

fintail · March 2021

Out on the road in the fintail today, saw something just as rare if not more so - an Excalibur, I believe a Series III/IV, the hard/padded top model, probably late 70s/early 80s. I liked those when I was a kid.

tjc78 · March 2021

uplanderguy said:
But there wasn't a '2' position then, right? But I guess no one drives around in '2' anyway.

No 2...:. But if you are racing (lol) you start in 1, manually shift to D, then before 3rd gear comes you shift back to 1 to hold 2nd. It’s known as the AOD shuffle. Many claim it will destroy the transmission... others claim they have down it for years.

uplanderguy · March 2021

fin, the Excalibur (at least in the sixties) was a product of Brooks Stevens, who was responsible for the styling of some of my favorite Studebakers, the '62-64 Larks and the Gran Turismo Hawk. In fact, I've seen pics of the first Excalibur and it had "Studebaker SS" nameplates on the side. I'm nearly certain (thought not totally) that it was shown at auto shows in the Studebaker display.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Looking back at that Monte Carlo on TPIR, I wonder why anybody chose silver cars back then. My parents' was a firethorn-like color with maroon interior, and it just looked so much richer to my eyes. And I've always not liked gray interiors. Decades of rental cars with work always made me associate gray inside with rental cars.

Of course, had it been up to me, I'd have ordered the checkerboard aluminum wheels on that Monte.

ab348 · March 2021

Maybe I'm becoming conditioned, but I liked the interior in that Monte when it appeared on-screen. I might have preferred blue (assuming it was offered) but I always had a soft spot for a very light gray interior in cars of the '70s and '80s. I think that came from Ford offering such a shade in the '70s on the LTD with their knit nylon "panty cloth" seats.

Exteriors in silver back then were seldom good, though. Prior to the advent of clearcoat paints, it seemed silver cars always oxidized very quickly and left the owner with a very dull finish.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Going strictly from memory here, in '79 Chevy started offering an interior color on some lines called "Oyster". I remember liking it on the Monte Carlo optional Special Custom Interior. It was gray, but very light in my memory....some of the vinyl trim almost looked off-white.

In '72, Chevy offered a 'pewter' colored cloth interior on the Caprice, and it was a two-page spread in the brochure. I liked that.

I guess in the '80's, which is when cars started going the more in-your-face plasticky looks inside, is when gray started turning me off.

andre1969 · March 2021

I think the problem with gray interiors these days, is that gray is sort of a harsh color. So when you but it on the hard plastics and such in today's cars, it tends to look cheap and stark. But in that Monte Carlo, there's more padding, like in the door panels, for instance, that helps soften it up. That gray looks a bit lighter as well, sort of a "dove" gray, compared to some of the darker hues of today.

I'm really not a huge fan of gray or silver exteriors, probably because they're so common these days. Once upon a time, silver seemed like more of a luxury car color. It used to be hard to pull off, with a domestic car, because it would clash with all the chrome, but as cars de-chromed over the years, I guess it was easier to do.

I think that Monte Carlo pulls off the look pretty well, though. I might be a bit biased, because the '86 Monte Carlo I got from my Mom was a 2-tone, gray over silver. It had a burgundy interior. When it was new, it was pretty sharp. But by the time I had it, it was pretty faded. The gray on the hood and roof took the worst of it, while the silver on the decklid held up a bit better.

Car paints have definitely improved over the years, though. My Dad's '03 Regal will be 19 years old soon, as it has a 6/2002 build date. Yet the silver paint still looks new. Even in the couple of places where it has dents, the paint has held up. It never got weak and cracked. However, the car was carported for much of its life, from roughly summer of 2004 through spring of 2017. My old 2000 Intrepid was also silver, and was still nice and shiny at the age of 10 years old, when it got totaled. The headlights were starting to seriously glaze over, though. So I guess you win some battles, and lose some battles.

One of my great-aunts had a Monte Carlo, around an '84 or so. It was white, with a blue interior. Nice car, too. She had gotten into an accident with it, and it was totaled out. She ended up with a new Intrepid. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think it was a 2001. She didn't have that one long though, because the sloping roofline messed with her beehive hairdo, so she traded for an Impala. It must be nice, to have enough money that you can just swap cars to suit your fashion taste!

uplanderguy · March 2021

The paint on the hood of our '84 Monte Carlo got 'crazed' and dull looking too. I was always waxing it when I'd stop at my parents'.

uplanderguy · March 2021

Here's the '79 Monte Carlo 'oyster' interior I liked at the time, and the '72 Caprice interior in 'pewter' I liked at the time too. Since the interiors weren't too plasticky, that, and probably that these colors were both new to the model year, I liked them but subsequently ended up not liking gray interiors:

omarman · March 2021

I recall seeing a dove gray and pewter Mercury Marquis (still no de Sade option) parked in a Big Bear parking lot in 1977. I spoke briefly to the owner when he came out from the store. He had a big smile and seemed used to getting looks and questions about his new car. I remember that because I don't recall seeing many on the street like it but did find a nice survivor on BaT.

explorerx4 · March 2021

That Mercury probably has a CVN # in Janes.

I had an 04 Focus in that Light Tundra color. Fun car, larger 2.3 engines, 5 speed stick, moonroof and heated cloth seats. I just got tired of larger vehicles trying to intimidate me while driving it.

uplanderguy · March 2021

I mentioned this before, but my first boss in my first real post-college job--and he was my boss for 14 years--drove one of those Marquis...navy blue with gray or silver vinyl top. He was a lush and a womanizer. To this day I equate those cars with him, LOL.

fintail · March 2021

My friend's 83 was grey with a grey vinyl (half) top and grey interior. Lots of grey German cars then too.

It also had somewhat dull paint, I assume a non-clearcoat?

uplanderguy said:
Looking back at that Monte Carlo on TPIR, I wonder why anybody chose silver cars back then. My parents' was a firethorn-like color with maroon interior, and it just looked so much richer to my eyes. And I've always not liked gray interiors. Decades of rental cars with work always made me associate gray inside with rental cars.

Of course, had it been up to me, I'd have ordered the checkerboard aluminum wheels on that Monte.

fintail · March 2021

I've read that before, I think. The first Excalibur was a decent enough clone, style wise, of a 1920s MB SS - Stude and MB link again

uplanderguy said:
fin, the Excalibur (at least in the sixties) was a product of Brooks Stevens, who was responsible for the styling of some of my favorite Studebakers, the '62-64 Larks and the Gran Turismo Hawk. In fact, I've seen pics of the first Excalibur and it had "Studebaker SS" nameplates on the side. I'm nearly certain (thought not totally) that it was shown at auto shows in the Studebaker display.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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