Dodge Dakota - Quad Cab

dustyk · December 2003

Ray,

Is this problem intermittent?

Does it appear to be more noticeable in certain temperature ranges?

If the heater control is moved to the defrost mode, does the idle quality improve?

If you answer "yes" to all of the above, a likely suspect would be spark plugs.

If you answered "yes' to the last two only, I would suspect contamination build up at the idle air port in the Throttlebody. You might try some fuel injector cleaner, but removing the Idle Air Control Motor and manually cleaning the port is more effective.

There could be a computer problem, but I think it's less likely to be the issue. If spark plugs and the idle air port are not the problem, and you ran a few tanks of fuel injector cleaner through the engine, you might have a lazy or defective fuel injector.

Best regards,
Dusty

raybo333 · December 2003

Dusty, thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I know that the idle is roughest when the engine is cold and smoothes out a little after warmup. I don't know about the defrost test but I will try it on my way home tonight. Also, the problem isn't intermittent, it's there everyday. I will get back to you tonight or tomorrow.

bookitty · December 2003

Well, we made the trip but the 1268 miles were for a good part achieved in bumper to bumper traffic. It was the Thanksgiving holiday weekend and although we expected traffic to be heavy, it went way beyond our expectations. Must of the stoppages were for "gaperblocking" as folks stopped to stare at the accident vehicles. Next year, that won't happen, as all of these good folks have now seen an accident and thus will feel no need to stop, slow down and stare. If anyone is interested in purchasing a used car or truck I can now show them a lot of vehicles with "as new" turn signal bulbs. Some, never used. "Left Lane Louie" is alive and well, I can assure you. The Quad ran like a proverbial top although I averaged under 18MPG due to the fact that I was constantly in first, second and third gear. We left on Saturday morning from LBI, NJ and arrived this morning @ 11:00 AM. We stayed over two nights in lieu of the planned stay of one night, but last night we learned the true meaning of the "screeching halt!" Mozart, after a few moments of pitiful crying turned out to be a wonderful little traveling kitty and enjoyed staying in the hotels. Happy to have arrived unscathed, and safe and sound.
Bookitty

dustyk · December 2003

I checked with my local Dodge technician and he tells me that they have yet to replace a fuel injector for a 287 (4.7) motor. He did say that he has heard of reflashing the computer for rough idle, but doesn't believe it's the root cause.

He agreed with me on either worn spark plugs or idle air port/motor being the most likely causes. He also said that on a few the PCV valve was the cure for rough idle. These were all winter-time complaints and they were accompanied by a slight sludge build up around the PCV valve. He also said to check the air filter. He has found two that were caused by the filter even though they looked fairly clean.

I should state that I had a intermittent bumpy idle that seem to start at around 7500 miles. It was a very slight thing and not always noticeable. It was intermittent and went away by going into the defrost mode. This raises the idle speed slightly by energizing the idle air motor and opening the idle air port. There were some days that I thought it idled just like it did when new, which was like glass.

I tried running some fuel injector cleaner through it, but could not detect any difference. I removed some of the plugs and other than being .002-.003 over the gap setting they looked fine. I replaced the plugs with Bosch 4418 Platinum+4s and for three days the 4.7 idled like glass.

But the intermittent idle came back, although I think it was still improved. Now at 18,000+ miles it idles fine and has done so for the last 7,000 miles or so.

Best regards,
Dusty

sunburn · December 2003

My 02 4.7 has had a rough idle since it was new. It is most noticable in the winter. In the summer with the A/C on, the idle speed is increased and the problem goes away. Same thing with turning the defroster on in the winter. The dealer has never found anything wrong and replacing the plugs and air filter at 30K miles didn't change anything. Most of the time the idle is about 600-650 RPM. Sometimes it is as low as 450-500 RPM. That is when it is rough. This seems to be a common problem on the 4.7L and there isn't any one fix, if there is any at all.

raybo333 · December 2003

Thanks for the in-depth tips! I tried the defrost method several times while stopped on my way home tonight. I could feel the idle going faintly higher but it didn't make any difference. The roughness I'm getting is best explained: when stopped and in gear, if I slightly take my foot off the gas pedal, the truck bumps forward in a jerky motion. The idle (in gear) stays at about 600. Once I put my foot on the gas it smooths right out and is very responsive. I will look at the air cleaner tomorrow. Thanks so much...Ray

mopar67 · December 2003

there was a flash for the PCM that took care of the rough idle on my rig.

dustyk · December 2003

Sunburn & Raybo,

Yes, I noticed that the rough idle occured on mine when the idle speeed dropped below around 600 RPM. I am not sure why it drops that low at times. But in the last few months it has not repeated this symptom at all and idles very smoothly even at 500 RPM.

This could be caused by a marginal idle air port motor. I have been told that removing the motor and cleaning the port area solves this problem for a long time.

Raybo, there's nothing to say that you don't have a vacuum leak or something else going on that could cause a rough idle. I would start with the simply things, if you are going to try to tackle this yourself. After the air filter, I would try cleaning the idle air port, then plugs, I guess.

Regards,
Dusty

ferous · December 2003

This is my fourth fall with my 4.7 (65K miles) and when it's cold in the morning and warm in the afternoon, the 4.7 runs rough. The computer takes longer to adjust for the cold intake air temp. This is normal and you shouldn't worry about it. It's just the way it is. Kind of like getting use to your wife (10 years and counting).

raybo333 · December 2003

Thanks Dusty and everyone,

I'll keep you posted as I try different things to cure this rough idle. You guys are great!

Ray

2nddak · December 2003

Raybo, I had a rough idle on my 4.7 that wasn't annoying enogh to pursue and one day by accident, I found a cracked vaccum hose on the left side of the manifold area as you look at it from the grill. Fixing that cured the idle problem. I had a more miles on it than you do though. Just a thought and easy fix. Kevin

mopar67 · December 2003

"This is my fourth fall with my 4.7 (65K miles) and when it's cold in the morning and warm in the afternoon, the 4.7 runs rough. The computer takes longer to adjust for the cold intake air temp. This is normal and you shouldn't worry about it. It's just the way it is. Kind of like getting use to your wife (10 years and counting). "

If you are talking about a vehicle equipped with a Holley 2 bbl with a sticky choke, bad accel. pump, and worn jets, yes, this is indeed normal.

But on a modern computer controlled engine, its not. I have driven many other FI vehicles, including mopars, and none have a rough idle like this.

As I said, there is a PCM flash that fixes the rough idle and the stall after a cold start. I had the same thing and by golly on the third flash, Chrysler got it right.

mtrialsm · December 2003

I have the "spit-front" seat in my dakota quad.
It's realy just bucket seats with a center section
and arm rest/storage,,right? Has anyone wanted to
or has swapped it out with a center console from
a "bucket seat" model?
I've got taupe color interior, anyone want to trade?
Mick
trialsmm@hotmail.com

iowabigguy · December 2003

I considered this when I still had my Quad Cab Dakota. If you find someone to swap you will need to swap seats as well, or at least the seat frames. On the 40-20-40 seat setup there are tabs welded to the seat frames that the center seat mounts. The frames on the bucket seat/console setup do not have these mounting tabs. If you watch Ebay you may find a console on there relatively cheap. The center console from a Durango is very similar and could be made to work. You could also just remove the center seat and build a custom console. Rick

spike50 · December 2003

In the first 10K, my '00 (5sp) started to have the typical rough idle. That wasn't that bad but for some reason the engine would die while coasting up to or partially through turns with the clutch pushed in. With the engine stopped, I lost my steering and this almost caused several head-on collisions. Luckily and quick turn of the key would start the engine and I could continue turning the steering wheel to reach my proper destination. A PCM flash fixed the problem.

I've probably worn this "excuse" out by now but it has kept my wife from ever driving the truck.

quadmeister · December 2003

My 2003 4.7 has done this sporadically, every now and then since new (23 Kms). It now has about 7500Kms on it. It happens so rarely that I forgot to meantion it when it was in for it's 5000Km service. It did it this afternoon actually. Glad to here It's not unheard of.

bpeebles · December 2003

How come this comes up every year about this time? Gee, I wonder.

Shall I remind everyone about the "learning" aspect of the ECU? As the weather gets cooler, the ECU must relearn how to idle under the new ambient temps.

I will leave it up to curious readers to review past Dakota forum entries and read about my "handy dandy quick learning" process. I must have typed into these pages at least 3 times since the year 2000.

HINT: This is a maintenance issue so look in the Dakota Maintainance forum.

jimt · December 2003

Glad you had safe trip south. Holiday travel can be quite trying. My wife and I both worked Thanksgiving Day so our driving was fairly limited. We are on East coast of Florida; I believe you have settled on on West coast. ( Has much to offer also!) Enjoy your winter! JimT

dustyk · December 2003

A fellow worker bought a 2003 dakota, 4.7, auto, soon after I bought mine. About a month ago he started to have a rough idle problem, but his also was accompanied by stalling and some "surging," as he described it.

When he took it in for service they diagnoised the problem to the aftermarket filter he had installed. It appears that the oil from the filter contaminated a sensor in the fuel system. Since the repair it has run fine.

Dusty

quadmeister · December 2003

bpeebles -
Is this a one way thing, as in only as it gets colder, or should I expect it to do it when it gets warmer too. Mine has done it every now and then since a couple hundred Kms off the lot 7500 Kms ago. It's only started to get what I would consider colder around here the last couple weeks except for maybe a day or two at the first of November (when it was at the 5000 Km mark). Other than that, the temps have been quite steady in the mid teens to the mid twenties celcius and it's done it all along.
I was chalking the occasional rough idle up to the learning curve of the ECU, which I thought it would be done learning after 7500 Kms. I guess, the truck hasn't experienced -30 temps yet, so it hasn't finished learning yet.
If this happens every time the temperature swings, then I guess I should expect it to happen more frequently over the next six months because the temps swing from quite warm to very cold on a weekly or biweekly (and sometimes daily) basis around here from December onward.

I'll be sure to check out your handy-dandy quick learner process in the meantime.

bpeebles · December 2003

The learning curve' of the ECU is based on several things. There is an algorythim that starts with some 'base' settings (idle setting, ignition timing...etc) then a 'fudge factor' is added in to modify that 'base' configuration.

It is this 'fudge factor' that includes a 'map' of what worked well the when specific criteria were met. (such as ambient temp)

The problem with this design is that it ends up simply 'averaging' a whole bunch of stuff together to get to the 'fudge factor' this usually works well.. until one of the inputs has a large swing. (such as ambient temp swings that you get in the north)

My Dakota is the first fuel-injected vehicle I have ever owned that has troubles idling. There is NO EXCUSE for this.

Personally, I feel that Dodge needs to hire some engineers that can come up with better algorythim for the ECUs.

Luckally, my engineering background allowed me to get around this poor design by "forcing" the ECU to relearn the idle.

I have been toying with some other ideas to improve the idle quality of my Dakota.. but I have little time to spend on it.

Were you aware that disconecting the battery for over 10 minutes will ERASE all the fudge-factors and it will have to relearn how to run all over again? If you have the automatic xmission, the shifting will get all mixed up too. (until it relearns your driving habits.)

dustyk · December 2003

Bpeebles, I think you've described the operation of the ECU (PCM in Chrysler parlance) in open loop condition. Open loop does store past set point events to build a history in RAM. I honestly don't know if it stores past events as an average and builds a constantly refreshed algorythm. That might be true.

But in closed loop various sensors are supplying input data to adjust injector pulse width, ignition timing, and idle air port opening to control idle, as well as the air-fuel ratio for the engine through its operating range.

Now most systems I'm familar with operates in open loop at initial start to some predetermined point in operating temperature. After a certain temperature is reached the system goes into closed loop for cruising and idle speeds. Most systems do switch to open loop for acceration, but back again when a cruise condition is reached.

If your explaination is correct I can see how the PCM effects the idle from initial start through the warm-up period, but I don't see an PCM influence on a warm idle problem unless it is getting false or non-calibrated inputs from any number of sensors.

Thoughts?

Best regards,
Dusty

bpeebles · December 2003

(Dusty)I am quite familear with the differences between the 'loops'. This has very little to do with the PCM learning process. The factory shop manual has a detailed description on how there are specific "last known good" fudge-factors that are based on several outside factors such as ambient air temperture.

The "closed loop" you are refering to is when the exhaust o2 sensors are "looped back" to determine running conditions for the least emmissions.

I guess, now that I think about it... in the end it is the desire to control EMMISSIONS that are making the idle so crappy at times.

bookitty · December 2003

Boy, you guys are really sharp and are way over my head! When the thread gets around to talking about setting points and adjusting carburetors, I'll jump right in.

Bookitty

mopar67 · December 2003

During cold start and warmup, the ECU, PCM or whatever you chose to call it, runs off pre mapped algorithms. IF that code is wrong for whatever reason, then voila! you have a lousy idle.

You are correct however in your stance that a FI vehicle should not run like this. I consider myself somewhat of an expert in this area due to experience with PCM flashes and ambient temperatures. It was not an experience that I vounteered for however!

I don't think its a question of Dodge having less than stellar engineers. Consider the budgets foisted upon them by the finance people along with rushed development cycles and its a wonder that your dodge or any dodge for that matter runs properly at all.

That is one main reason I left the Dodge family......I resented performing unpaid duties as a development engineer.

Quote from bpeebles"

"How come this comes up every year about this time? Gee, I wonder.

Shall I remind everyone about the "learning" aspect of the ECU? As the weather gets cooler, the ECU must relearn how to idle under the new ambient temps.

I will leave it up to curious readers to review past Dakota forum entries and read about my "handy dandy quick learning" process. I must have typed into these pages at least 3 times since the year 2000."

Funny how Dodge PCM has to "learn" changes in climate and for the driver to have to put up with a lousy running engine. The asian automakers don't seem to have this problem

bpeebles · December 2003

(bookitty) I can talk carbs-n-points too!

Would you beleive, as a kid, I used to disassemble -n- reassemble an ol' rochester carberator for fun?

By the time I was about 12 years old, everyone in the neighborhood would bring their small-engined appliences to me for repair.

My first vehicle was a 3-cylinder 2-stroke motorcycle. The thing has 3 points, 3 carberators, 3 exhaust systems....etc It took some skill to tune all 3 cylinders to be spot-on... but when it was tuned properly it would out-accellerate bikes with TWICE the displacement.

When Vechicles first started with the fuel-injection, they were mostly junk. (a couple squiters in a disabled carberotor body)

Modern engines are very different. Since the Federal government mandated OBD-II in all vehicles. It is actually EASIER to tune them.
A laptop computer and the right software can plug right in to the OBD-II interface.

The problem is that many of todays "MECHANICS" are not prepared for this "dualisity" of their jobs. (part Mechanic and part software wizzard)

Quite often, if the onboard computer does not show a problem, they are totally lost.

That seems to be right were I come in. I am very well versed in IC engines and am a computer programmer by trade. (ref my profile 8-)

bpeebles · December 2003

I am not discussing idle quality DURING WARMUP. You are totally correct that open-loop idle is based on 'special' mappings.

I stand fast to my assertation that AFTER REACHING OPERATING TEMP.. the engine has 'fudge factors' that are stored in memory and updated with an averaging algorythim based on recient ambient temps.

mopar67 · December 2003

but rather cold start. I thought I made that clear.

bpeebles · December 2003

I guess I missed the original discussion somwhere.

Cold-start idle issues should be approached by removing and cleaning the TB. This includes the IAC motor.

In over 50,000 miles, my 4.7L V8 has always idled acceptably when in open-loop mode. One could also turn on the AC to gain a 50 or so RPMs in the idle too. (in cold wether the AC compressor should not come on ... according to the manual)

mopar67 · December 2003

but rather cold start. I thought I made that clear.

mopar67 · December 2003

like us to be repetive.......ignore my second post.

quadmeister · December 2003

Yup, I am aware of the 10 minute "Fudge Factor Flush". Presently, I don't consider the rough idle a problem. More like another unexpected nuisance I wouldn't have expected from a $40,000.00 (CAN) truck.
.. however, a re-learnin' may be in the future, once the weather improves.

cadrien · December 2003

looking at a 2002 quadcab sport plus with 4 wheel drive and the 4.7. i have looked at pricing here and at kbb. wondering if you feel 17,500 is a fair price. truck has 39300 miles.

I've been lurking for a bit, thanks all for the good info.

fastback2 · December 2003

I've been lurking around for the past couple of weeks getting lots of useful Dakota info in this topic. Anyways, I paid a visit to a local Dodge dealer, tried out both a Quad cab and a Club cab, and things were looking pretty good until the dealer tried lowballing me on my trade-in($1000 below blue book). The main reason he gave me was that since my sports car (99 Merc Cougar V6) had a manual tranny. He also recommended that I add an automatic to my potential Dakota order, saying that the trade-in value down the road would be much higher. The fact that he only had auto Dakotas in his lot was most likely a motivating factor. Anyways, I thanked him for his time and walked out of the dealership. After I got into my car, another guy (probably the sales manager) came up to me and tried cutting a deal in which the proceeds from me selling the car on my own would be treated as the trade-in value. However, he didn't want to increase the trade-in offer himself. I said I'd think about it and drove off.

I figured I'd mention this to see if anyone else out there encountered a similar situation. I like manual trannys in my vehicles. However, it looks like the great majority of folks want automatics in their vehicles. As a result, it appears that a car/truck with a manual is a liability when it's time to trade it in. Any thoughts/opinions on this would be appreciated.

bpeebles · December 2003

He is mostly feeding you BS. Besides, you have to consider that it COSTS nearly $800 for the auto tranny to begin with and you will get WORSE MPG and have to perform more costly preventive maintenance on it too.

Get what you want. Why pay for somthing you dont really want betting that some future "trade in value" will be more. That is a pretty lame reason to pay for an option. Are you buying a vehicle as an INVESTMENT or for TRANSPORTATION?

Another way to look at it....

Use the edmunds "Used Car Appraiser" with and without the auto tranny.

I just ran my 2000 Dak thru the "Used Car Appraiser" and found that the auto Xmission would be worth about $300-$400. I am glad I did not pay the Xtra $800 for one.

dustyk · December 2003

Resale value is determined by many things, but the primary factor is initial cost. The basic rule is the more you spend the more it will be worth.

The "lower resale" comment for manual transmissions is true, but as Bpeebles points out so is the initial cost. The true resale value is the differential between what was paid and what can be returned in cash value. I ran several combinations of Dakota through the Kelly Used Car on-line and pretty much got the same result as Bpeebles.

There is one disadvantage when trading in most manual transmission equiped vehicles, and it's the real reason why new car dealers talk them down on trade-in. The turnaround time is longer due to the fact that most people want an automatic transmission when looking for a vehicle. This means the marketability is lower and hence they have a tendency to sit longer on the lot.

For this reason and this reason alone you may be more likely to get a low-ball offer on a manual, all other things being equal. This is especially true the newer the vehicle is because manual transmission trucks in the higher used price ranges are not as marketable as less expensive ones. A $4995 used Dakota with a manual has a lot more marketability, either to people looking for a truck as a second or third vehicle driven for specific purposes, or to the more youthful person who is either getting their first vehicle and often prefers a manual.

Best regards,
Dusty

bookitty · December 2003

Alan, the dealer is trying to get you to pay, in order to simplify his business. When I sold (privately after hearing all of the dealer BS re standard shift) my Ford Explorer, the buyer commented, "I've been looking everywhere trying to find an Explorer with a 5 speed." When I sold my '95 Dakota with the 318 and the 5 speed the buyer commented, "I've been looking everywhere trying to find an Dakota V8 with a 5 speed." In both instances the new car dealer ran the sale as a "courtesy trade" to save me some sales tax. When asked by dealers as to why I don't want an automatic transmission, I always look them straight in the eye and respond thus; "I never learned how to drive one." Stick to your guns.

Bookitty

bpeebles · December 2003

(bookitty) I will have to start using that line too ;-)

ronslakie · December 2003

fastback2 - I tend to agree totally with bpeebles. Most of these dealerships are looking for any excuse to tell you why your trade in isn't worth as much as you think. I would bet that if you went to that same dealer and told him your trade in was automatic that there wouldn't have been much difference if any in the price difference. If possible I would always try for a private sale. There is a certain segment of the population that will always prefer a manual shift and it is becoming increasingly difficult to find them. I gave up and ordred my 2K Dak to get mine and it was the primary reason I didn't buy a Tundra 4x4. I also ordered a 98 Ram 2500 with manual and had a dealer tell me that I shouldn't order it because it was inapprpriate for northern Virginia, I told him that if it was my money and I wanted it that it was appropriate for me.

Ron

ferous · December 2003

I have also received a lot of grief about my 4.7 with the 5spd man. After 66K miles I still love it! I was told that I should also order my truck with 4wd as it would improve the resale. I laughed at the dealer and told him that after 150K miles, I will save more in gas than the resale will ever make up. He responded back with "you actually keep a truck for that long?". Yes I do, so I won't be back any time soon.

dustyk · December 2003

When those "poor resale value" manual transmissions in new trucks are sitting on a dealers lot, there's nothing wrong with them!

Bests,
Dusty

hasel · December 2003

I live in North Eastern New Mexico here most of the trucks are Stick Shift,

fastback2 · December 2003

I've always preferred a manual myself, as I feel more like I'm driving the car or truck instead of just being along for the ride. IMHO, I think that any future trade-in money that I would save by having an automatic would be more than offset by the initial cost and the lower fuel mileage (especially since I figure on keeping the truck for several years if I get it). Tommorrow I'm off to pay a visit to another dealer to see what he can do for me. If I continue to get lowball offers on my car, I'm going to seriously consider doing a private sale of my car during the spring when getting a decent price will be easier. Thanks for the advice!

spike50 · December 2003

With the conclusion of deer hunting season (unsuccessful by choice), I can now wash all of the frozen mud, sticks and leaves off of the truck (from mirrors on down). BTW, the Bridgestone AT - Revo's got me out of some potential side-slipping door scrapers.

My concern is that when I'm in 4W-Hi or Lo slogging along, the engine idle automatically increases from the normal (2W - road) 700 up to about 1,500 rpms. I have to modulate my forward speed by working the clutch (2000, 4.7L, 5sp). While under warranty (pre-36K), I did get the PCM flash to fix the stalling problem but never did any real "dirt-roading" until 40K-50K. This is the second hunting season that I've experienced high engine idle when I want to go "real" slow.

Preliminary discussions with a service manager has not given me any comfort that they have a clue other than $. Any ideas?

jd332dakota · December 2003

well, our dakotas made headlines. Has anyone experienced the bad ball joints that they referred to on the news. Not the publicity that Dodge needs I'm sure- a dakota with the front wheel falling completely off????. -JD

bpeebles · December 2003

This is OLD NEWS. A ball joint can get so bad that it breaks. This can happen on ANY vehcle with ball joints. The owners manual spells out a recommended maintenance schedule that includes inspecting the suspension regularly.

I am not sure about your state but here in Vermont, all suspension parts are inspected annually. It is part of the manditory "Vermont State Inspection" and includes exhaust, emmissions and other items.

I have replaced ONE upper balljoint on my 2000 Dakota. I used a MOOG brand balljoint that has a grease fitting. I have been keeping an eye on the other UBJ and it has not been an issue.

dustyk · December 2003

I have had a few Dakota owners tell me that they had to replace ball joints -- usually uppers, I think -- but I have yet to heard of one breaking.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I noticed the day I bought my 2003 that the grease seals were flat as if there wasn't a drop of grease in them. It wouldn't surprise me if most of the failures were the result of insufficient lubrication from day one.

After 36,000 miles I plan on installing zerks so I can grease them. Of course with my luck, the damage may already be done.

Dusty

livnlrn · December 2003

Question for everybody. I know our brakes are the worst, so when you replaced them (most people seem to have gone with Power Slots) what pads did you use? Some say the Quiet stops and some say stay away from them. Any suggestions since I have to replace mine now too?
Thanks,
Eric

livnlrn · December 2003

Seems like a lot of people went with the Rayb Quiet Stops. That's good enough for me! What was the best local price you found B?

dustyk · December 2003

First, I don't think Dakota brakes are the worst. I know people here have had varied results with brake performance, but the vast majority of people I've personnaly talked to have had average to above average results. At just under 20,000 I have already reached the threshold where our Avalon needed rotors. My 2003 Dakota has lots of pad left and the rotors are still chatter free.

Depending on the year, of course, Dodge has used various rotor and pad suppliers and the quality did vary. This is not a unique situation in the industry. If you visit any of the truck and SUV forums you'll find examples of similar complaints.

Now, that being said, there are aftermarket rotors that are of better quality. The question is, are they worth it. Depending on your particular driving that may in fact be the case. As to pads, I've heard mixed results from folks who have used various brands, and that includes ceramics. Although some are advertised as "liftime guarantee," not everybody appears to be happy with them for various reasons.

Ceramics will give you a lot less brake dust but some claim that stopping distances are increased. This could be specific to the model vehicle (I've heard Suburbans and GM pickups don't seem to like them).

I have looked at Powerslots and they look like a very well made rotor. I was impressed with the machining and finish quality. I know a fellow who uses them on his '99 Dakota with factory pads and he seems to be very pleased.

Best regards,
Dusty

Dodge Dakota - Quad Cab

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