Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

qbrozen · May 2021

Well, good sign... the newest part seems to have fixed the Benz. Started her up and finally had no codes. Could only run it for a minute because I need to change the oil, tighten the water pump (probably replace the gasket), and get all the hoses and wires tucked away. But all other startups have had immediate rough running, stalling, and multiple codes. Crazy that one little metal ring could cause all those problems. I guess it is possible the whole unit was bad or clogged in some way and the missing ring was just a visual cue and not really the cause, but it is what it is.

Sad that I have so little free time that it took me this long. My weekends will free up a little in a couple of weeks after martial arts training takes a hiatus, so that will be nice. Although my little one is currently playing on 2 baseball teams, as well, so that hasn’t been conducive to getting chores done, either. But I don’t think the season could be much longer for those.

stickguy · May 2021

good news. can't wait for a driving report!

oldfarmer50 · May 2021

qbrozen said:
Well, good sign... the newest part seems to have fixed the Benz. Started her up and finally had no codes. Could only run it for a minute because I need to change the oil, tighten the water pump (probably replace the gasket), and get all the hoses and wires tucked away. But all other startups have had immediate rough running, stalling, and multiple codes. Crazy that one little metal ring could cause all those problems. I guess it is possible the whole unit was bad or clogged in some way and the missing ring was just a visual cue and not really the cause, but it is what it is.

Sad that I have so little free time that it took me this long. My weekends will free up a little in a couple of weeks after martial arts training takes a hiatus, so that will be nice. Although my little one is currently playing on 2 baseball teams, as well, so that hasn’t been conducive to getting chores done, either. But I don’t think the season could be much longer for those.

Does this mean that the Maserati is a no go?

henryn · May 2021

Now this is interesting.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/league-city-2010-volkswagen-passat/7308253932.html

A 2010 Passat, looks very clean in the pictures. I believe that was the last year model which came with the good 2.0T engine, not the newer watered down engine. And the DSG transmission.

stickguy · May 2021

I assume it is an optical illusion, but it looks like it is lifted in the rear like a 71 Camaro with a set of Gabriel HiJackers shocks.

ab348 · May 2021

The stance does look odd, maybe it is the angle of the picture. I find it funny that the seller claims they don’t use it enough. It’s averaged 10,000 miles a year.

henryn · May 2021

ab348 said:
The stance does look odd, maybe it is the angle of the picture. I find it funny that the seller claims they don’t use it enough. It’s averaged 10,000 miles a year.

Circumstances do change. My wife bought a 2008 Passat (very similar to this one) new, and drove it for 4 years until it was paid for. After 48 months, it had right at 100k miles, or 25k per year. I took over the car at that time as a secondary vehicle, and over the next 12 months it accumulated less than 5k miles. So yes, I find that quite believable.

breld · May 2021

@laurasdada - not sure if you already got the info you needed, but if memory serves, you just need to include a copy of the sales order for your PHEV or EV along with the completed IRS form.

Nothing too in depth.

roadburner · May 2021

As I posted in RWTIV:
So I went and looked at the M2. The Cadillac store was closed so I just did a walk around. It does look brand new(which it should) More weirdness: it has the $2,500 M Drivers Package which got the PO a day at the BMW PC and a 174 mph top speed(instead of the silly 155 mph limiter). I’m at least going to test drive it, although having to negotiate with that flakey dealer is discouraging.

stickguy · May 2021

I assume that is just a symbolic annoyance? And that any track you would do a HPDE at wouldn't let anyone go over 155 anyway?

qbrozen · May 2021

@roadburner said:
As I posted in RWTIV:
So I went and looked at the M2. The Cadillac store was closed so I just did a walk around. It does look brand new(which it should) More weirdness: it has the $2,500 M Drivers Package which got the PO a day at the BMW PC and a 174 mph top speed(instead of the silly 155 mph limiter). I’m at least going to test drive it, although having to negotiate with that flakey dealer is discouraging.

I wonder where people think they are legally and safely going to be able to break 155. Even the highest top speed at Laguna Seca at this year’s Best Driver’s Car, as set by Randy Pobst in a Ferrari F8 Tributo, was 148 mph.

roadburner · May 2021

stickguy said:
I assume that is just a symbolic annoyance? And that any track you would do a HPDE at wouldn't let anyone go over 155 anyway?

The only CCA school with a speed limit that I know of is the Windy City school at Road America- and that's only in one sector(that had a penchant for spectacular "incidents"). I saw 130 at Putnam in my MS3 without trying hard; I'd be surprised if you couldn't top 160 easily at Mid Ohio or Watkins Glen- and almost certainly at COTA.

corvette · May 2021

What about on an oval? Well before there were cameras rolling 24/7 everywhere and heightened security, I recall a family member telling a story of finding a gate unlocked at Indy and taking a lap.

qbrozen · May 2021

@roadburner said:
The only CCA school with a speed limit that I know of is the Windy City school at Road America- and that's only in one sector(that had a penchant for spectacular "incidents"). I saw 130 at Putnam in my MS3 without trying hard; I'd be surprised if you couldn't top 160 easily at Mid Ohio or Watkins Glen- and almost certainly at COTA.

Sure... in a supercar.

graphicguy · May 2021

ab348 said:
The stance does look odd, maybe it is the angle of the picture. I find it funny that the seller claims they don’t use it enough. It’s averaged 10,000 miles a year.

Thought the same thing. Probably nothing, but why lie about that?

sb55 · May 2021

roadburner said:

stickguy said:
I assume that is just a symbolic annoyance? And that any track you would do a HPDE at wouldn't let anyone go over 155 anyway?
The only CCA school with a speed limit that I know of is the Windy City school at Road America- and that's only in one sector(that had a penchant for spectacular "incidents"). I saw 130 at Putnam in my MS3 without trying hard; I'd be surprised if you couldn't top 160 easily at Mid Ohio or Watkins Glen- and almost certainly at COTA.

Before I moved to VT, I used to HPDE in my Porsche 944T. Non S, so 217 HP. Suspension was set up, but stock motor. I hit +/-150 mph at Bridghampton (the greatest track that is now a golf course), Lime Rock, Watkins Glen and Pocono road course. 930's could pass me on the straights, but I would catch them in the corners

qbrozen · May 2021

@sb55 said:
Before I moved to VT, I used to HPDE in my Porsche 944T. Non S, so 217 HP. Suspension was set up, but stock motor. I hit +/-150 mph at Bridghampton (the greatest track that is now a golf course), Lime Rock, Watkins Glen and Pocono road course. 930's could pass me on the straights, but I would catch them in the corners

How long was that straight? Sorry to say, but Maybe broken speedometer. Or that had a crazy long straight that no longer exists anywhere else. Just research some of the tests all over the interwebs. 150 in a production car is not common in the least.

breld · May 2021

@roadburner - I haven’t paid attention to the M2 market for a couple months now. That’s basically the price of a new one, right? Not that you can get a new one at the moment, so I suppose this is the next best thing.

I imagine you could save thousands by going with a gently used 2019 or 2020, but nothing has popped up that strikes your fancy?

In any case, that one is beautiful. I like the LBB, but the Hockenheim is stunning in person.

breld · May 2021

So my 16 year old gets his driver’s license this week. And that’s it - all the kids have their licenses (well, the ones who are able to get a license).

So is it weird that after all these years of ferrying around kids to school, sports, friends houses, etc....I’m a bit sad?

au1994 · May 2021

breld said:
So my 16 year old gets his driver’s license this week. And that’s it - all the kids have their licenses (well, the ones who are able to get a license).

So is it weird that after all these years of ferrying around kids to school, sports, friends houses, etc....I’m a bit sad?

That happens to us in late January. I genuinely do not know what I am going to do with my time. Any yes, I’m already getting sad.

stickguy · May 2021

Breld, when the kids started driving themselves it certainly cut down on my miles. I did miss it. And still not sure why I don’t have lots more productive free time with them gone!

roadburner · May 2021

As I’ve said, In my stock MS3 I easily hit 130 mph on the front straight at Putnam- and I was one of the low key instructors who didn’t shoot for fastest lap in every session.

roadburner · May 2021

@breld Yes, it’s not a good deal at $65k, but I believe $61k would be a decent price. As you know, M2 Comp prices are all over the place. The BMW Store in Cincinnati has a 2019 Hockenheim Silver car I may look at for $62.5k. It has 8.5k miles on it. Unfortunately, the BMW Store usually doesn’t deal much on their used cars.

stickguy · May 2021

Make an offer. Worst that happens is they say no.

fintail · May 2021

This was posted on another forum Pardon me? I doubt this thing was over 20K new, 5 years and 80K miles ago.

At least something out there is just as stupid as housing prices. Would look good parked in front of a 500K house that was 250K in 2016.

henryn · May 2021

graphicguy said:

ab348 said:
The stance does look odd, maybe it is the angle of the picture. I find it funny that the seller claims they don’t use it enough. It’s averaged 10,000 miles a year.
Thought the same thing. Probably nothing, but why lie about that?

It doesn't strike me that way. Sure, the seller could be a "curbstoner", but there's not nearly enough there to jump to that conclusion. My guess, and I believe it's more likely, is that after several years of use as a daily driver, the car was relegated to backup duty. I have done exactly that before, it's not very unusual.

I do intend to go look at the car this evening (if my sick dog doesn't get worse), and I'll know more then. If the car is what it appears to be in the pictures (other than the stance!), I will ask for a look at the title. That will give away all "curbstoners", and those who only obtained the car to try and flip it.

sda · May 2021

henryn said:
Now this is interesting.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/league-city-2010-volkswagen-passat/7308253932.html

A 2010 Passat, looks very clean in the pictures. I believe that was the last year model which came with the good 2.0T engine, not the newer watered down engine. And the DSG transmission.

Looks nice. I really liked my 06 Passat 2.0t. I thought the 2010 Passat had the 6sp Aisin sourced automatic like my 06 had.

nyccarguy · May 2021

I found a very mildly optioned ($43,475 MSRP) Explorer XLT not too far away from me that fits the bill. White (not my favorite color)/Black Interior with 18" Wheels (not the optional 20s), Captain's Chairs, The Tow Hitch, The Twin Panel Glass Moonroof, & The Pro Pilot 360 Assist+. I googled the dealership and emailed the sales person who has positive reviews. I wrote him a detailed email with most of the pertinent information (stock number, lease term & miles, I have excellent credit, details about my trade) he needs to provide me with a price. I tell him I can take delivery either this week or next.

I received an email back requesting my zip code & the VIN on my Pilot. I provide it to him.

Next I get an email asking me if I owe money on the Pilot (not sure what this has to do with anything). I reply yes along with the loan balance, who it is financed through, and that I got an offer from ALGO to buy it for $25K.

I'll let you know how the story unfolds.

sda · May 2021

nyccarguy said:
I found a very mildly optioned ($43,475 MSRP) Explorer XLT not too far away from me that fits the bill. White (not my favorite color)/Black Interior with 18" Wheels (not the optional 20s), Captain's Chairs, The Tow Hitch, The Twin Panel Glass Moonroof, & The Pro Pilot 360 Assist+. I googled the dealership and emailed the sales person who has positive reviews. I wrote him a detailed email with most of the pertinent information (stock number, lease term & miles, I have excellent credit, details about my trade) he needs to provide me with a price. I tell him I can take delivery either this week or next.

I received an email back requesting my zip code & the VIN on my Pilot. I provide it to him.

Next I get an email asking me if I owe money on the Pilot (not sure what this has to do with anything). I reply yes along with the loan balance, who it is financed through, and that I got an offer from ALGO to buy it for $25K.

I'll let you know how the story unfolds.

It amazes me how a relatively straight forward transaction can be made so complicated. It would seem to me they could have provided you an answer from the initial information you provided. Good Luck!

au1994 · May 2021

nyccarguy said:
I found a very mildly optioned ($43,475 MSRP) Explorer XLT not too far away from me that fits the bill. White (not my favorite color)/Black Interior with 18" Wheels (not the optional 20s), Captain's Chairs, The Tow Hitch, The Twin Panel Glass Moonroof, & The Pro Pilot 360 Assist+. I googled the dealership and emailed the sales person who has positive reviews. I wrote him a detailed email with most of the pertinent information (stock number, lease term & miles, I have excellent credit, details about my trade) he needs to provide me with a price. I tell him I can take delivery either this week or next.

I received an email back requesting my zip code & the VIN on my Pilot. I provide it to him.

Next I get an email asking me if I owe money on the Pilot (not sure what this has to do with anything). I reply yes along with the loan balance, who it is financed through, and that I got an offer from ALGO to buy it for $25K.

I'll let you know how the story unfolds.

I can see needing your zip to see if there are any incentives. Not sure on the VIN. A customer would be foolish to tell them they have a Pilot Elite when its really an LX. Not sure what your payoff has to do with it.

Good luck! Let’s hope this dealer isn’t a Richard.

kyfdx · May 2021

au1994 said:

nyccarguy said:
I found a very mildly optioned ($43,475 MSRP) Explorer XLT not too far away from me that fits the bill. White (not my favorite color)/Black Interior with 18" Wheels (not the optional 20s), Captain's Chairs, The Tow Hitch, The Twin Panel Glass Moonroof, & The Pro Pilot 360 Assist+. I googled the dealership and emailed the sales person who has positive reviews. I wrote him a detailed email with most of the pertinent information (stock number, lease term & miles, I have excellent credit, details about my trade) he needs to provide me with a price. I tell him I can take delivery either this week or next.

I received an email back requesting my zip code & the VIN on my Pilot. I provide it to him.

Next I get an email asking me if I owe money on the Pilot (not sure what this has to do with anything). I reply yes along with the loan balance, who it is financed through, and that I got an offer from ALGO to buy it for $25K.

I'll let you know how the story unfolds.
I can see needing your zip to see if there are any incentives. Not sure on the VIN. A customer would be foolish to tell them they have a Pilot Elite when its really an LX. Not sure what your payoff has to do with it.

Good luck! Let’s hope this dealer isn’t a Richard.

If they are offering to buy your trade, they need the payoff to provide a complete quote.

breld · May 2021

kyfdx said:

au1994 said:

nyccarguy said:
I found a very mildly optioned ($43,475 MSRP) Explorer XLT not too far away from me that fits the bill. White (not my favorite color)/Black Interior with 18" Wheels (not the optional 20s), Captain's Chairs, The Tow Hitch, The Twin Panel Glass Moonroof, & The Pro Pilot 360 Assist+. I googled the dealership and emailed the sales person who has positive reviews. I wrote him a detailed email with most of the pertinent information (stock number, lease term & miles, I have excellent credit, details about my trade) he needs to provide me with a price. I tell him I can take delivery either this week or next.

I received an email back requesting my zip code & the VIN on my Pilot. I provide it to him.

Next I get an email asking me if I owe money on the Pilot (not sure what this has to do with anything). I reply yes along with the loan balance, who it is financed through, and that I got an offer from ALGO to buy it for $25K.

I'll let you know how the story unfolds.
I can see needing your zip to see if there are any incentives. Not sure on the VIN. A customer would be foolish to tell them they have a Pilot Elite when its really an LX. Not sure what your payoff has to do with it.

Good luck! Let’s hope this dealer isn’t a Richard.
If they are offering to buy your trade, they need the payoff to provide a complete quote.

That's the thing. The only variables are their price for their car and their offer for yours. But if they want to provide an entire quote sheet down to leasing/financing offers, they need all that other information too. If you're just curious, it can be mildly annoying, but when you're serious about a purchase, it's kinda nice to get the actual quote.

au1994 · May 2021

breld said:

kyfdx said:

au1994 said:

nyccarguy said:
I found a very mildly optioned ($43,475 MSRP) Explorer XLT not too far away from me that fits the bill. White (not my favorite color)/Black Interior with 18" Wheels (not the optional 20s), Captain's Chairs, The Tow Hitch, The Twin Panel Glass Moonroof, & The Pro Pilot 360 Assist+. I googled the dealership and emailed the sales person who has positive reviews. I wrote him a detailed email with most of the pertinent information (stock number, lease term & miles, I have excellent credit, details about my trade) he needs to provide me with a price. I tell him I can take delivery either this week or next.

I received an email back requesting my zip code & the VIN on my Pilot. I provide it to him.

Next I get an email asking me if I owe money on the Pilot (not sure what this has to do with anything). I reply yes along with the loan balance, who it is financed through, and that I got an offer from ALGO to buy it for $25K.

I'll let you know how the story unfolds.
I can see needing your zip to see if there are any incentives. Not sure on the VIN. A customer would be foolish to tell them they have a Pilot Elite when its really an LX. Not sure what your payoff has to do with it.

Good luck! Let’s hope this dealer isn’t a Richard.
If they are offering to buy your trade, they need the payoff to provide a complete quote.
That's the thing. The only variables are their price for their car and their offer for yours. But if they want to provide an entire quote sheet down to leasing/financing offers, they need all that other information too. If you're just curious, it can be mildly annoying, but when you're serious about a purchase, it's kinda nice to get the actual quote.

You are both right, of course. The upside when a dealer does this is the quote is 100% accurate and actionable as opposed to working with numbers where the customer says they owe ‘about 10k’ on the trade.

nyccarguy · May 2021

@breld said:
That's the thing. The only variables are their price for their car and their offer for yours. But if they want to provide an entire quote sheet down to leasing/financing offers, they need all that other information too. If you're just curious, it can be mildly annoying, but when you're serious about a purchase, it's kinda nice to get the actual quote.

I just hope I don’t get a “great news. You have $X equity in your Pilot, so once we use that as a down payment, your payment will be...” email.

henryn · May 2021

sda said:

henryn said:
Now this is interesting.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/league-city-2010-volkswagen-passat/7308253932.html

A 2010 Passat, looks very clean in the pictures. I believe that was the last year model which came with the good 2.0T engine, not the newer watered down engine. And the DSG transmission.
Looks nice. I really liked my 06 Passat 2.0t. I thought the 2010 Passat had the 6sp Aisin sourced automatic like my 06 had.

I'm going by this article in Motor Trend: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/volkswagen/passat/2010/

My 2008 Passat 2.0t also had the normal 6 speed automatic transmission with torque converter. But Motor Trend says all of the 2010's had the DSG

The Passat is equipped with VW's peppy 2.0-liter turbocharged inline-four, which is now its only engine as the optional V-6 has been dropped. In addition, the six-speed manual and automatic gearboxes and the all-wheel drive option are also gone for 2010. None of that is really missed (except maybe the manual tranny), as the turbo-four -- mated to the standard auto-clutch DSG manual -- offers peppy response and good fuel economy.

breld · May 2021

nyccarguy said:

@breld said:

That's the thing. The only variables are their price for their car and their offer for yours. But if they want to provide an entire quote sheet down to leasing/financing offers, they need all that other information too. If you're just curious, it can be mildly annoying, but when you're serious about a purchase, it's kinda nice to get the actual quote.

I just hope I don’t get a “great news. You have $X equity in your Pilot, so once we use that as a down payment, your payment will be...” email.

You'd lease the Explorer for sure, right? So with no tax savings to consider, you'd probably be better off just unloading the Pilot to Carvana, Vroom or Carmax? The Pilot must be high on their list of desired inventory.

laurasdada · May 2021

Thanks for the PHEV update, breld. Good to know.

I shopped the Maser Ghibli when I was considering the XF. I couldn't get comfy in the Maser, the ergonomics weren't great (well, Italian). Back seat a bit cramped (sounding just like Dad now!). And, could see the ChryCo bits, but they were bits that probably worked a whole lot better than their Italian counterparts!
So, I took the safer, more reliable route and bought British.

sda · May 2021

henryn said:

sda said:

henryn said:
Now this is interesting.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/league-city-2010-volkswagen-passat/7308253932.html

A 2010 Passat, looks very clean in the pictures. I believe that was the last year model which came with the good 2.0T engine, not the newer watered down engine. And the DSG transmission.
Looks nice. I really liked my 06 Passat 2.0t. I thought the 2010 Passat had the 6sp Aisin sourced automatic like my 06 had.
I'm going by this article in Motor Trend: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/volkswagen/passat/2010/

My 2008 Passat 2.0t also had the normal 6 speed automatic transmission with torque converter. But Motor Trend says all of the 2010's had the DSG

The Passat is equipped with VW's peppy 2.0-liter turbocharged inline-four, which is now its only engine as the optional V-6 has been dropped. In addition, the six-speed manual and automatic gearboxes and the all-wheel drive option are also gone for 2010. None of that is really missed (except maybe the manual tranny), as the turbo-four -- mated to the standard auto-clutch DSG manual -- offers peppy response and good fuel economy.

I learned something today!

It would be nice to know how the DSG performs vs the traditional auto. As you know VW reverted back the traditional auto on the 2.5, 1.8t and 2.0t.

henryn · May 2021

sda said:

I learned something today! It would be nice to know how the DSG performs vs the traditional auto. As you know VW reverted back the traditional auto on the 2.5, 1.8t and 2.0t.

I had the 2008 2.0t with the normal automatic, and the 2013 TDI with the DSG. I have nothing against either tranny, but I will say the DSG is a bit clunky when dealing with stop-and-go traffic or trying to maneuver in a 13 story parking garage.

stickguy · May 2021

DSG needs more frequent fluid changes too I think.

kyfdx · May 2021

The one in the A3 TDI was very clunky. Can't complain about the MPG, though

nyccarguy · May 2021

@breld said:
You'd lease the Explorer for sure, right? So with no tax savings to consider, you'd probably be better off just unloading the Pilot to Carvana, Vroom or Carmax? The Pilot must be high on their list of desired inventory.

Ford currently has a $2,750 “trade in incentive” rebate if you trade in your vehicle for a new Ford. It’s $1000 higher if you go for a Limited, ST, or Platinum.

nyccarguy · May 2021

Just got an email back saying the General Manager is off today, so I’ll have to get back to you tomorrow about your Honda. Do you want to put all the equity in your Honda towards the lease?

I replied no. I’d like a check back for all of the equity in my Honda. $0 cap cost reduction with only 1st payment due at signing.

stickguy · May 2021

good luck! Remember, you might pay a little more on the lease than if you wait until year end, but once supply opens back up your Pilot will likely be worth a lot less. So could be a wash.

or just keep the Honda, pay it off, and run it into the ground. Unless you made the fatal mistake of showing your wife something nicer when you might not be able to deliver it! That is how I ended up with the first RDX.

henryn · May 2021

stickguy said:
DSG needs more frequent fluid changes too I think.

True. 40k recommended, at a cost of about $350 at the dealer.

laurasdada · May 2021

Who, amongst us, is the bravest?
https://cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=02062&showNegotiable=true&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=untrackedWithinSite_false_0&distance=200&sortType=PROXIMITY&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=m110#listing=249597458

henryn · May 2021

nyccarguy said:

@breld said:

You'd lease the Explorer for sure, right? So with no tax savings to consider, you'd probably be better off just unloading the Pilot to Carvana, Vroom or Carmax? The Pilot must be high on their list of desired inventory.

Ford currently has a $2,750 “trade in incentive” rebate if you trade in your vehicle for a new Ford. It’s $1000 higher if you go for a Limited, ST, or Platinum.

=============== END QUOTED MATERIAL+++++++++++++++++
At some point, a year or two back, before the pandemic, I had a $2,000 "private offer" from Ford. I had heard of such things from GM, but never from Ford, until I received mine in the mail.

Long since expired, of course.

ON EDIT: I see that blockquotes are getting messed up again.

henryn · May 2021

laurasdada said:
Who, amongst us, is the bravest?
https://cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=02062&showNegotiable=true&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=untrackedWithinSite_false_0&distance=200&sortType=PROXIMITY&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=m110#listing=249597458

Well, @qbrozen did buy a used Land Rover, so ... Of course, it wasn't $70k either!!!

explorerx4 · May 2021

@nyccarguy,
The local dealers who list a discount are at about $1000 of list for and XLT.

oldfarmer50 · May 2021

qbrozen said:

@sb55 said:

Before I moved to VT, I used to HPDE in my Porsche 944T. Non S, so 217 HP. Suspension was set up, but stock motor. I hit +/-150 mph at Bridghampton (the greatest track that is now a golf course), Lime Rock, Watkins Glen and Pocono road course. 930's could pass me on the straights, but I would catch them in the corners

How long was that straight? Sorry to say, but Maybe broken speedometer. Or that had a crazy long straight that no longer exists anywhere else. Just research some of the tests all over the interwebs. 150 in a production car is not common in the least.

I own one car that at least in theory could do 150 but I’d never try that without some aerodynamic modifications. It’s rock solid at 90 but I’d be scared at 150 that it would go airborne.

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