Subaru Crew - Future Models II

hondafriek · February 2004

I don't think the first year model jinx is what it used to be. Especially Japanese cars whether built in Japan or in local markets, what I do believe is that all cars whether domestic or Japanese are not going to be perfect.

I personally would have no hesitation buying a first year Legacy were I in the market, and as has already been pointed out in a previous post, in other parts of the world they have already been on the road for a number of months.

Cheers Pat.

ladywclass · February 2004

spinaker · February 2004

Just got the Legacy and Outback brochures in the mail. Anybody else notice that the grille's on the two cars are different? The Legacy has chrome wings like the Accord. The Outback has two drilled strips.

- Spinaker

sweet_subie · February 2004

that's the first thing i noticed

hondafriek · February 2004

Grills have always been different between the legacy and outback.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · February 2004

I saw the Outback brochure, Patti got a hold of one at Philly. But I'm still waiting for them to mail my copy to me.

-juice

rsholland · February 2004

ateixeira · February 2004

in the freaking world works in my 'hood. Sheesh, I'm always last!

-juice

johnclineii · February 2004

The mail person can't deliver it if s/he doesn't have it yet to deliver! Blame the mailhandlers or even the sender. It is rarely the delivery guy/gal's fault.

Still don't got mine neither! Sigh!

nowakj66 · February 2004

I got mine yesterday. It did get the juices going! However there is not one image there that you cannot see on subdriven so you are not missing any great new wonders. Still nice to have something physical though.

dcm61 · February 2004

juice's mailman has a reputation of reading his car mags before delivering them. Some of the pages are dog earred and there's an occasional coffee stain. :-)

DaveM

ateixeira · February 2004

I don't want coffee stains on my brochure! ;-)

At least I got to see Patti's.

-juice

sweet_subie · February 2004

http://www.lafayettejc.com/news20040208/200402081local_news107626- 6550.shtml

ateixeira · February 2004

Interesting, but in the big picture those numbers aren't really significant. Except maybe Canada.

-juice

bat1161 · February 2004

I agree that once any problems I have had with my 2000 were fixed, the car has been fine. I also agree that any car, whether first year or 3rd year may have problems; what is important is that the manufacturer stand behind their product. In my experience Subaru has done this each time, which is one of the reasons I enjoy them so much.

On the other hand (and it is the one my family is constantly reminding me of) I have had the following problems: front and rear rotors warped, requiring changing both sets of brake pads as well; replaced the clutch due to "cold clutch shudder"; head gaskets; the vent control went; ignition coil and fuel injector replaced; and the weather stripping on the front passenger door was replaced.

Even with all that, I can not think of driving anything else. I guess I'll just have to be patient until next year. I'll live vicariously through those of you who get it this year, as well as through test drives.

Mark

ateixeira · February 2004

You've had more than your share, Mark. Most people here haven't had nearly as many problems.

-juice

bat1161 · February 2004

My wife blames my "slightly aggressive" style of driving, but I don't think that would cause all this. I also don't think I drive that crazily- I just drive like I'm still driving a cab in the city:-) I just happened to get the one in a million one.
Who knows, maybe by the time we are ready to go for one Subaru will have developed their hybid technology to hte extent where it is available. (That gives you until next year Subaru, so lets move it!)

Mark

ateixeira · February 2004

That might explain the brakes, but not much else. It's bad luck, really.

-juice

bat1161 · February 2004

I do have an added incentive to wait: I just joined IMBA and it takes 6 months to get their discount.

Mark

ateixeira · February 2004

Good way to stall, it forces you to be disciplined and wait. The Fence will hold up that long, don't worry.

-juice

simon_tx · February 2004

I can live with minor problems like fit and finish and I understand that some problems will develop through use that the manufacturer cannot be responsible for,

however, some of the things that Bat1161 mentions like head gaskets, the clutch have very little to do with anything other than crappy manufacturing. Those are things that have nothing to do with the design - more often it is the manufacturer trying to scrimp on cost and hoping it slide past the customer.

Every manufacturer is going to have some problems, and while I think it is great that they stand behind their products - in my opinion if I have to make more than three trips to a dealer to correct a manufacuring defect on a new car, then they did a poor job of manufacturing the product.

Truthfully Bat1161 - I would not be as forgiving to Subaru as you. That car may not be the norm, but it would leave me the lasting impression that the quality is not what others say it is.

And, at the risk of offending you loyal Subaru enthusiasts, I believe many Suabru owners would never admit that the car they purchased was less than the quality they expected - much like people who pay high $$$ for luxury cars - those owners rarely give those cars poor initial quality ratings, even in cases where there are major flaws.

subearu · February 2004

I'm eligible now to use the IMBA discount, but I likely wouldn't need it on the FXT.

-Brian

ateixeira · February 2004

Simon: you could say that about any car.

Toyota had 3.3 million engines succeptible to sludge: http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302&a=a&b- t=sludge

Honda has so many auto tranny failures they had to extend those warranties. In another recall front suspensions were collapsing, on 6 models IIRC.

The BMW X5 got 14 recalls in the first year alone.

You might say Subaru, Toyota, and Honda build to a certain price point, but BMW?

Stuff happens, what counts is how the manufacturer reacts and treats its customers. NO car will be perfect, I'd rather experience 3 problems and get them fixed for free vs. having 1 problem and an apathetic dealer/manufacturer.

That's just me, feel free to feel differently.

-juice

ateixeira · February 2004

My wife's Legacy was recalled for possible frame oxydation.

A pessimist will say it's rusting already, what a hunk of junk, right?

Not me. It was preventative, we actually had no rust.

This is actually a funny story. My wife had just had it in for service, the time we had that Mercedes loaner car, remember?

Well, we just missed the recall letter, the day the car came back we got it. So I called and guess what? They sent a shuttle service over to pick up the car, drove it to the dealer, performed the recall, then drove it back to our house! Signed, sealed, delivered.

By the way, the Wall Street Journal interviewed me about the experience and I might get quoted again.

)

Any how, I'll compare that to my Ford Escort. At just over 12k miles, the windshield frame had some trim that was peeling off. I swear, it was 12.2k miles, something like that. The bumper to bumper warranty was only 12k, and they refused to cover it. It was pathetic!

We see people here with mileage beyond the 60k limit still getting stuff fixed for free out of good will. They stretched the gasket warranty to 8/100 no questions asked. It didn't take massive class action lawsuits like with Toyota, either.

That has to factor in to your overall satisfaction with Subaru.

-juice

sweet_subie · February 2004

does h4 XT have chain or timing belt ? anyone.
H6 has chain right ?

ateixeira · February 2004

Only the H6 has a timing chain, I believe. XT has a belt.

-juice

bat1161 · February 2004

Mark-

Normally I would agree with you, but I remember when I had the rotors problem the Service advisor told me informally that Subaru had tried a different manufacturer that year. When they saw people were having problems, they dropped them and went back to their normal manufacturer. SOA also started including brakes as part of their warranty in 2001 and on.
Also, for all that has been problematic Subaru, more specifically the service dealer I go to, has stood by me helping me out along the way. Between them, and Patti, I have no complaints about Subaru backing their products. Maybe I am nuts, my wife thinks so, but I feel it is a good nuts which is why my next vehicle will be a Subaru again. And to keep this on the Future vehicle topic- hopefully it will be a Hybrid Subaru:-)

Mark

ateixeira · February 2004

It's funny, there are rumors that Subaru might extend their warranties - they might as well, since in many cases they are already covering things even past the current warranty.

-juice

otis123 · February 2004

When I bought my 2001 LLBean 3 yrs. ago this month there were articles about how Subaru had a new quality initiative out to improve build quality. They were starting to go upscale w/ the H6 and had to address bad marks they received in initial build quality surveys from the 2000 MY.

Seems to me they got it right for MY2001. Except for the front rotor problem I had (which they resolved at 22K by replacing the rotors and pads - after initially turning them at 10K) my car has been flawless. [Knock on plastic wood at 55K miles.]

I'm ready to buy another this fall. We'll be a 2-Outback family...

How reliably boring...

Ralph

ateixeira · February 2004

Brake rotors got bigger, I'm not sure if it was 2001 or 2002.

The 2005 XT gets absolutely huge brakes.

-juice

hondafriek · February 2004

The only thing that has gone wrong in the Titan has been one ABS sensor, I have had no brake squeals, no piston slap, for about 2 weeks I had a noise at idle which to me sounded like the timing belt tensioner.

The dealer could not hear anything and the noise seems to have resolved itself, and I routinely have temps in the minus 35celsius range for at least 2 months of every winter.

For those of you who don't know the Titan is a 2001 Legacy GT Wagon.

Cheers Pat.

buddhabman · February 2004

Great write-up from Jon. He explains his theory on the new 7 seater due from Subaru:

"I consider the Impreza platform to be the "small" platform, the Legacy's to be the "medium" platform and the new one for the 7-Seater to be the "large" platform.

I believe development of the large platform probably began around 1998, about the same time the SVX (Subaru's previous large platform) ceased production. In 1999 at the Tokyo Auto Show, Subaru displayed its first iteration of the large platform, called the Fleet-X and billed as the "Grand Touring Car" for the 21st Centry. Official info about that concept car may be found at Subaru Japan's website. Here are two alternative translations of the relevant page:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babe...ml&lp=ja_en
http://nifty.amikai.com/amiweb/brow...&c_id=nifty

Two years later in 2001, Subaru displayed the second iteration of the large platform, called the WX-01, which was about 3 inches wider than the Fleet-X. The WX-01 displayed a 5+2 seating configuration and more info about it can be found at:
http://www.subaru-global.com/topics...2001/b/0100.htm

Two years later in 2003, Subaru displayed the third iteration of the large platform, called the B11S, which is about 4 inches wider than the WX-01. In fact, the B11S is the widest vehicle Subaru has ever displayed and more info about it can be found at:
http://www.subaru-global.com/topics...ss_b11s_en.html

Here's a summary of what I consider the evolution of the Subaru large platform dimensions and a comparison with some current examples of the small and medium platforms.

code:
1992-7 1999 2001 2003 2003 2004
SVX Fleet-X WX-01 B11S Legacy STi
---------------------------------------------------------
182.1 181.1 188.8 188.4 184.4 173.4 Length
69.7 69.3 72.4 76.2 68.7 68.1 Width
48.4 56.3 64.2 53.9 55.7 56.7 Height
102.8 108.7 108.3 110.2 104.3 100.0 Wheelbase
59.1 ?? ?? 64.0 57.5 58.7 Front track
58.3 ?? ?? 63.4 57.3 58.5 Rear track"

sweet_subie · February 2004

Who questions Subaru's reliability ? Ridiculous.

1. My 2001OB H4 is flawless until today.
2. My 1994 Legacy ran until 2001 with NO problems.....except for tire, brake. It ran on Original battery for 7 yrs - believe it or not.

rsholland · February 2004

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2004/04_02_12e.htm

ateixeira · February 2004

Interesting summary of the large cars. Still, I'm not sure the design of the 7 seater is even finalized. I really hope they show a concept in NY.

Bring the Spec B to the US!

-juice

rsholland · February 2004

Over at nabisco, from someone supposedly with SOA contacts, that Crystal Gray will be added as a new '05 WRX/STi choice. Reportedly this is the SOA name for Gunmetal.

Bob

sweet_subie · February 2004

got mine. the cover letter says some specs will be added later ? Nav ?

sweet_subie · February 2004

- OB brochure talks about 3.0 Sedan

- I didn't know that XT has all-aluminum engine.

rsholland · February 2004

have alloy block and heads.

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

From somebody (from Canada) over at nabisco:

Well this is what I got from my dealer yesterday in my email to my response

My statement

"The WRX line will be adding Crystal Gray as a color choice in '05. This is suspected to be the SOA name for Gunmetal and it will be offered in STi also."

Dealers Statement:

"We just ordered an STI in that color yesterday! I think it's going to look awesome. Also, they are changing the TS badging to RS sedan and wagon, and there is going to be an RS sport package with a sunroof, and a new Impreza regal blue and obsidian black."

Keep in mind this is in Canada so some of what she said may not be available in the U.S.

I wonder if we'll also get the RS Sport, and if the TS wagon will be replaced by a RS wagon? A RS wagon might make more sense than a TS wagon. It would streamline manufacturing and parts inventory somewhat, and TS models have been slow sellers anyway.

Bob

ateixeira · February 2004

Crystal Gray is a good start, now give us that light metallic blue I've seen on JDM Legacys.

TS is the ignored step child. We always send people to Outback Sports, for a little extra you get a lot more.

The RS wagon could be sportier, and the moonroof sounds like a good idea. But...you can't even get a moonroof in a WRX wagon. That would be a little strange, offering it only one your cheapest Impreza wagon.

-juice

ateixeira · February 2004

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p5cefb644cffbbb1d31e- 81bcbac4e17d9/f9a00bf5.jpg

That pic gives you an idea of the scale. My daughter is in the back seat and the opening literally dwarfs her. I think the whole family could poke their head up.

-juice

jimmyp1 · February 2004

The sunroof, but especially the beautiful little girl!

Jim

kens · February 2004

A gunmetal grey would be nice. I haven't yet seen that color used in Subarus here.

I think the change from TS wagon to RS wagon is an interesting one. Subaru has typically kept their sportier models as sedans. I think this is a sign that the wagons are getting their props.

Ken

sweet_subie · February 2004

have you all made decisions ?

I am going with OB-XT.
Then, 7 seater.

sweet_subie · February 2004

04 leg/Obs are 5k below msrp on fitz.mall.

sweet_subie · February 2004

is the dual moonroof bigger than current ones ?

hondafriek · February 2004

Current dual moonroofs are split, whereas the new roof is essentially one large roof with the front half tilting and the back sliding no join in the middle like the current design.

Cheers Pat.

njswamplands · February 2004

cusafr · February 2004

Almost! Down to 2005 Subaru: Now either a 5-Speed Legacy Turbo Sedan; or LL Bean Wagon.

I know, totally different. My mind is racing in both directions. Must see and drive both.

Confused, but Excited,

CUSAFR

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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