I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

andre1969 · August 2021

One thing that GM did with some of those downsized intermediates, was that they'd use the THM350 with the V-6 engines, but then try to get away with the THM200 in some of the V-8s! I think the rationale was that the V-6 was already good enough, mpg-wise, for the CAFE standards of the time, but the V-8s needed a little boost.

I've read that in theory, the THM200 was good up to around 260 ft-lb of torque, and a GVWR of around 6,000 lb. So I'd guess that would max out with something like a Caprice classic wagon with a 305. Of course, theory and real-world are two different things.

It seems counter-intuitive to me, though. With the THM200 being lighter, both overall and with its internal components, it seems to me it would be a better match to the V6 engines, especially those tiny 3.2 and 3.3 units of '78-79. The 200 also had a slightly quicker first and second gear than the 350, so in theory that should have helped them perform better, too.

I looked up the specs online at automobile catalogue, for my old '82 Cutlass Supreme, and it said the THM200 was the automatic they used by then. But, I had to have my transmission rebuilt, and I remember asking the mechanic which one it was and he said a THM350. Or, would it be possible that the old one HAD been a THM200, but they put in a THM350? I didn't think they would be a direct swap...for instance, wouldn't the driveshaft be a different length? Or maybe the mechanic just didn't know, and said the wrong thing?

I've heard the THM200 was a lot more expensive to rebuild than the 350. I remember my rebuild was around $675, and that was back in 1993.

sda · August 2021

Did either the THM 200 or THM 350 have a lock up torque converter? That was almost like giving it a 4th gear. Short of looking it up what trans it had, the lock up torque converter on my 82 Buick Skylark X body started to work intermittently around 95k. I sold it soon after. That was in 91.

uplanderguy · August 2021

It's hard for me to believe that any V6's used in the intermediates in '78 and later were built with the THM350. I'm nearly certain, and have been since back then, that my parents' '80 Monte Carlo V6 had the THM 200.

I have to chuckle when I look at some posts on the G-Body Forum I see on FB. "My '78 (fill in the blank) with 305 was built new with the THM350". How long have you had it? "Ten years".

I think a lot of THM200's got replaced by THM350's, not real long into the cars' lives, but that's a mystery when you buy it when it's 25 years old.

The THM200 did get lock-up torque converters. I know our '80 had it. The car was uncomfortable to drive around 35 mph, which of course is a speed you're at a lot. Feeling of shifting in and out of gear.

It was so prevalent, GM came up with a TSB that came up with the cute names of "chuggle" and "bump" to describe the symptoms customers complained of. No fix, these were 'normal'.

sda · August 2021

uplanderguy said:
It's hard for me to believe that any V6's used in the intermediates in '78 and later were built with the THM350. I'm nearly certain, and have been since back then, that my parents' '80 Monte Carlo V6 had the THM 200.

I have to chuckle when I look at some posts on the G-Body Forum I see on FB. "My '78 (fill in the blank) with 305 was built new with the THM350". How long have you had it? "Ten years".

I think a lot of THM200's got replaced by THM350's, not real long into the cars' lives, but that's a mystery when you buy it when it's 25 years old.

The THM200 did get lock-up torque converters. I know our '80 had it. The car was uncomfortable to drive around 35 mph, which of course is a speed you're at a lot. Feeling of shifting in and out of gear.

It was so prevalent, GM came up with a TSB that came up with the cute names of "chuggle" and "bump" to describe the symptoms customers complained of. No fix, these were 'normal'.

Dad’s 85 Grand Marquis with the 4sp Overdrive automatic would bump back and forth from 4 to 3 and 3 to 4 annoyingly around 40mph. At least it could be put in D or 3 can’t remember exactly to prevent that hunting of gears.

uplanderguy · August 2021

Here's a link to a July 1981 Popular Mechanics magazine that discussed the GM TSB about 'chuggle' and 'bump' and mentions it only on the THM 200.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=chuggle+and+bump

explorerx4 · August 2021

Fintail,
If you hit the lottery, you may find something here worth saving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozhpjuLH5JY

tjc78 · August 2021

@sda said:
Dad’s 85 Grand Marquis with the 4sp Overdrive automatic would bump back and forth from 4 to 3 and 3 to 4 annoyingly around 40mph. At least it could be put in D or 3 can’t remember exactly to prevent that hunting of gears.

Very common on that generation of Panthers. I had both my 89s adjusted to not hit OD until 48 MPH. That made it so much better.

sda · August 2021

tjc78 said:

@sda said:

Dad’s 85 Grand Marquis with the 4sp Overdrive automatic would bump back and forth from 4 to 3 and 3 to 4 annoyingly around 40mph. At least it could be put in D or 3 can’t remember exactly to prevent that hunting of gears.

Very common on that generation of Panthers. I had both my 89s adjusted to not hit OD until 48 MPH. That made it so much better.

I wish we knew to ask, that would have been a welcome improvement.

fintail · August 2021

It might take a windfall to fix some of those, repairs aren't cheap. If I won a lottery, I'd probably have my own stash of parts cars, too. I've seen a few MB people who were minor parts car hoarders. At one time, Kent Bergsma of Mercedessource fame had a big assortment behind his shop, even a couple fintails.

explorerx4 said:
Fintail,
If you hit the lottery, you may find something here worth saving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozhpjuLH5JY

fintail · August 2021

My friend's 83 Monte CL with a 305 had the 200. When the car had around 120K on it (around Y2K), the transmission failed, and he replaced it with a 350.

andre1969 said:
One thing that GM did with some of those downsized intermediates, was that they'd use the THM350 with the V-6 engines, but then try to get away with the THM200 in some of the V-8s! I think the rationale was that the V-6 was already good enough, mpg-wise, for the CAFE standards of the time, but the V-8s needed a little boost.

I've read that in theory, the THM200 was good up to around 260 ft-lb of torque, and a GVWR of around 6,000 lb. So I'd guess that would max out with something like a Caprice classic wagon with a 305. Of course, theory and real-world are two different things.

It seems counter-intuitive to me, though. With the THM200 being lighter, both overall and with its internal components, it seems to me it would be a better match to the V6 engines, especially those tiny 3.2 and 3.3 units of '78-79. The 200 also had a slightly quicker first and second gear than the 350, so in theory that should have helped them perform better, too.

I looked up the specs online at automobile catalogue, for my old '82 Cutlass Supreme, and it said the THM200 was the automatic they used by then. But, I had to have my transmission rebuilt, and I remember asking the mechanic which one it was and he said a THM350. Or, would it be possible that the old one HAD been a THM200, but they put in a THM350? I didn't think they would be a direct swap...for instance, wouldn't the driveshaft be a different length? Or maybe the mechanic just didn't know, and said the wrong thing?

I've heard the THM200 was a lot more expensive to rebuild than the 350. I remember my rebuild was around $675, and that was back in 1993.

tjc78 · August 2021

@sda said:
I wish we knew to ask, that would have been a welcome improvement.

Well my family owns a transmission shop (parts and rebuilds) so I had good help.

It’s just an adjustment of the TV pressure. The AOD is a very simple thing.

sda · August 2021

This looked like a fun ride. Sorry it was shot
a bit far away, taken from the Honda lot located next to BMW.

uplanderguy · August 2021

Spotted this old decrepit early '80's Fleetwood Brougham coupe today. I was always intrigued by the Fleetwood coupe--great interior--and I wished Caddy would have made a (non-Eldorado) Fleetwood coupe in the '61-79 model years.

uplanderguy · August 2021

Went with a friend to a regional Oldsmobile show today--probably upwards of 100 cars. I was most-intrigued by this '65 4-4-2 still owned by the original owner,with paperwork displayed.

He said several years ago, an older man at a show walked up to him and said, "I sold you this car". He was the 'Gumpp' noted on the original invoice. He didn't remember the car or buyer, but still..pretty darn cool. Guy said that the salesman has since died.

explorerx4 · August 2021

This 1960 Buick Electra 225 has some unique interior features/functions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGK6Y7KIGOo

stickguy · August 2021

No outside mirrors on the 442? Must be fun changing lanes in that car.

fintail · August 2021

Stopped by local Cars and Coffee earlier, as the weather was as pleasant as it has been in months. Not a huge turnout, and 80% of it was Subaru and Jeep kids along with boomers-xoomers in late model Mustangs and Vettes, but a few oddities caught my eye.

Late run car, V6, 18K miles, original finishes:

I think a 94 maybe (no Northstar badge), must have been very low mileage as it was as-new:

Must be terrifying in a crosswind:

Owner just found this, plans to make it a resto-mod (add AC, maybe engine upgrade, car was on a slight incline, so the front end wasn't really that high):

These are getting scarce in nice condition:

Woman who must have been in her 70s at least pulled up in this, a couple of the Mustang crew sprinted over to check it and her out - very pretty color, looks like it is driven a bit:

And yet another blue car:

uplanderguy · August 2021

I like the Formula Fiero. Original simple styling with the V6 and later-year improvements. Say what you will, but I think the styling beats the MR-2.

I never cared for the Fiero that aped a Ferrari those last few years.

stickguy · August 2021

cool wagon. looks really solid.

do a tribute SS396 treatment to it. Disk brakes, suspension upgrades, etc.

explorerx4 · August 2021

Just watched a 20 walk around of Fox Bodies at Carlisle.
Didn't see a Mustang quite like mine, which surprised me.

tjc78 · August 2021

@explorerx4 said:
Just watched a 20 walk around of Fox Bodies at Carlisle.
Didn't see a Mustang quite like mine, which surprised me.

You have a 7-Up right?

explorerx4 · August 2021

@tjc78,
Mine is a white/black/black convertible.

tjc78 · August 2021

Looks good. Not sure why I thought it was the 7-up edition.

explorerx4 · August 2021

I wouldn't mind having 7-up car.

explorerx4 · August 2021

I found a car pretty much like mine. HA HA .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usxop07ggaM

fintail · August 2021

On the road - early Bronco wearing original 66 Ford-style hubcaps, couple of Vanagons, E30 cabrio, Tercel 4x4 wagon.

boomchek · August 2021

Speaking of Mercedes graveyards, check out this local place I stumbled upon last year.

Even though it feels like you just time warped to a Mercedes dealership in the 1980s, none of the cars are for sale. This is someone's private collection set up at an old dealership. There is dealer looking signage on the building, but the showroom is always closed and the caretaker that was there told me it was a private collection.

You can see more on Google Maps:
https://goo.gl/maps/3o2MT6KTZKc8MbwPA

andre1969 · August 2021

Nothing new or off-beat in the way of sightings, unless you count the Trailblazer and older-style (90's) Ranger that the construction guys outside drove up in. Although I can't remember the last time I've seen a Trailblazer, and it's been awhile since I've seen a Ranger, and both of them look to be pretty well cared for.

Oh, and on the subject of the garage...

Just lookin' outta the window, watchin' the asphalt grow-oh-oh-owww...
Well, okay it's concrete, but you get my drift! 🤡

At the rate things are going, maybe I'll be able to get my cars in it by the first snowfall

xwesx · August 2021

Hey, progress is progress!

I'm going the opposite direction: I'm tearing everything up!

sda · August 2021

andre1969 said:
Nothing new or off-beat in the way of sightings, unless you count the Trailblazer and older-style (90's) Ranger that the construction guys outside drove up in. Although I can't remember the last time I've seen a Trailblazer, and it's been awhile since I've seen a Ranger, and both of them look to be pretty well cared for.

Oh, and on the subject of the garage...

Just lookin' outta the window, watchin' the asphalt grow-oh-oh-owww...
Well, okay it's concrete, but you get my drift! 🤡

At the rate things are going, maybe I'll be able to get my cars in it by the first snowfall

Progress, yes!

andre1969 · August 2021

It's amazing how fast those guys move. It was around 6:45 AM when they poured the first little stoop out in the back. And by 9 am, they were hosing off the chute of the third and final concrete truck! They've still got a ways to go, but it's getting there!

andre1969 · August 2021

That Mercedes collection is really impressive. I imagine the owner must really be wealthy, not just to have a fleet like that, but to be able to maintain it! The cars all look like they're in pretty good shape, and not just non-running hulks slowly returning to the earth. Must take a lot of time to keep them all looking good, especially sitting outside.

ab348 · August 2021

andre1969 said:
That Mercedes collection is really impressive. I imagine the owner must really be wealthy, not just to have a fleet like that, but to be able to maintain it! The cars all look like they're in pretty good shape, and not just non-running hulks slowly returning to the earth. Must take a lot of time to keep them all looking good, especially sitting outside.

He can't be *that* wealthy if he has to store most of them outside. I can't imagine that does them much good.

andre1969 · August 2021

ab348 said:
He can't be *that* wealthy if he has to store most of them outside. I can't imagine that does them much good.

Yeah, there is that aspect of it. On one hand he was wealthy enough to amass a collection like that, but on the other, he's keeping most of it outside, where it's going to deteriorate over time, no matter how well you try to maintain it. And outdoor maintenance, at some point, has to outweigh the costs of indoor storage.

Most of the people I've known over the years who have had large collections also had access to warehouse or other commercial type space.

Just out of curiosity, I ran some numbers on the garage I had built at the old house, back in 2005/2006 (2006 was when the concrete floor was finally poured and I could actually use it). At this point, it's been a bit over 15 years since it was finished, and I probably have about $30,000 in it, total. So over 15 years, that allocates out to $2,000/yr for 4 garage spaces. Or $500/yr for one. Or about $41.67/mo per garage space. And, over time that cost slowly goes down, unless the garage needs some truly major work done on it.

What's the going rate these days, anyway, for indoor storage of a car?

uplanderguy · August 2021

What's the going rate these days, anyway, for indoor storage of a car?

My 10 by 20 space just this month went up to $125.13, up about $20.

My car is only 194 inches long so plenty big enough.

This year I'd decided to keep the space year-round. Glad I did. Daughter's stuff from CA is supposed to come in the next day or so--picked up July 14 and was told originally it would "probably take two weeks". So it's gonna get dumped in my garage, and wife and I will need to make a second trip to CT, in a rental truck, to take her stuff up to her. She said she's getting tired of only having four nice outfits to wear. She's been up there three weeks.

I retire tomorrow, which is about time. Fourteen years with current employer, a good company, but 41 years since first post-college job, only unemployed two weeks in that time, four total employers, and between the second and third, and third and fourth, I didn't take a single work day off between the old and new jobs. At least a couple decades of very regular work travel. I'm ready.

sda · August 2021

uplanderguy said:
What's the going rate these days, anyway, for indoor storage of a car?

My 10 by 20 space just this month went up to $125.13, up about $20.

My car is only 194 inches long so plenty big enough.

This year I'd decided to keep the space year-round. Glad I did. Daughter's stuff from CA is supposed to come in the next day or so--picked up July 14 and was told originally it would "probably take two weeks". So it's gonna get dumped in my garage, and wife and I will need to make a second trip to CT, in a rental truck, to take her stuff up to her. She said she's getting tired of only having four nice outfits to wear. She's been up there three weeks.

I retire tomorrow, which is about time. Fourteen years with current employer, a good company, but 41 years since first post-college job, only unemployed two weeks in that time, four total employers, and between the second and third, and third and fourth, I didn't take a single work day off between the old and new jobs. At least a couple decades of very regular work travel. I'm ready.

Congratulations on your retirement!

imidazol97 · August 2021

uplanderguy said:

I retire tomorrow, which is about time.

Congratulations on your retiring. It takes a little adjusting, but with a hobby
or two, like Studebakers, you'll find lots to do.

tjc78 · August 2021

Congrats on the retirement.

ab348 · August 2021

Congrats, Bill. Hope you enjoy getting into a new routine.

stickguy · August 2021

Enjoy retirement. I’m ready for it. Well, mentally just not financially! But it’s close enough to see the finish line!

andre1969 · August 2021

I'll throw in my congratulations as well, Uplander! Hope you enjoy retirement!

benjaminh · August 2021

@uplanderguy : Congrats on your retirement!

I'm about ten years or so away.

fintail · August 2021

Cool stuff, I approve. I even see a red fintail in the latest street view,

Insane that these are sitting outside though, even in relatively mild Vancouver. The oldies are definitely not rust resistant, and at their age, the summer won't help either. Someone has a hoarding problem. 107s are still pretty cheap when in imperfect condition, and 129s even cheaper, so a collection like this would cost a pretty penny, but not bazillions.

On the obscure car front, saw a ~1999 Sonata on the road today. I think I see more Lamborghinis on the road even in Spokane than early Sonatas.

boomchek said:
Speaking of Mercedes graveyards, check out this local place I stumbled upon last year.

Even though it feels like you just time warped to a Mercedes dealership in the 1980s, none of the cars are for sale. This is someone's private collection set up at an old dealership. There is dealer looking signage on the building, but the showroom is always closed and the caretaker that was there told me it was a private collection.
You can see more on Google Maps:
https://goo.gl/maps/3o2MT6KTZKc8MbwPA

uplanderguy · August 2021

Thanks gentlemen!

andre1969 · August 2021

Uplander, if we can ever get you out at Hershey or one of the Carlisle events, I'll get you a beer to celebrate your retirement!

explorerx4 · August 2021

Has some issues, but how often do you see a 55 88?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkRU4su0euY

xwesx · August 2021

benjaminh said:
@uplanderguy : Congrats on your retirement!

I'm about ten years or so away.

Same here. Just under ten years, and I'll be just under 54. I'm looking forward to the next career.

roadburner · August 2021

xwesx said:

benjaminh said:
@uplanderguy : Congrats on your retirement!

I'm about ten years or so away.
Same here. Just under ten years, and I'll be just under 54. I'm looking forward to the next career.

I semi-retired in 2008 at 51. I was fully retired 8 years later. I then went into the car business for 18 months. I then wound up being coerced back into the practice of law and finally back into politics.
I've been a lawyer, a car salesman, and a politician; I don't think I can sink any lower down the vocational food chain.

fintail · August 2021

This morning saw a 62 Chrysler 2 door HT, not too common - on the same property I could see what looked like another one, too, maybe a parts car.

uplanderguy · August 2021

Our regional Stude club hosted an 'orphan' meet today, and this '58 Edsel Roundup wagon showed up. It had the Teletouch trans buttons on the steering hub.

I've heard of these, but don't believe I've ever seen one prior.

"Roundup" would not be the greatest model name today, LOL.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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