Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

nyccarguy · September 2021

kyfdx said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Model Y on the road.

I'm pretty sure @pensfan83 has a recent punch, but he hasn't been on, in a while.

The Model Y seems pretty popular in my neck of the woods.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

tifighter said:
You gotta love craigslist. I got an email saying, roughly, "Can I have the VIN to check insurance?" No other questions, no asking when they can see it, etc.

Never heard that question asked before, what ulterior motive do you suspect? I often see VINs included in CL car ads so that you can run a CarFax. The only scam I can think of is to clone your ad and sell a car they don’t own.

explorerx4 · September 2021

Found this picture comparing Maverick to Previous Ranger.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

benjaminh said:
It's interesting that in an industry that's gone toward turbo (and even electric), Toyota is staying with naturally aspirated engines. Toyota's latest generation of ice motors are their Dynamic Force engines. Toyota's 2.5 engine for the Camry has both port and direct injection, and so my guess is that it might last twice as long as Honda's direct-injected turbo engines. Turbos just don't last as long. Maybe the new generations will be better, but I haven't yet seen a video of a turbo vehicle on youtube that's gone beyond 250k in the real world without major repairs. Maybe Honda's turbo engines will go to 200k or so, but Toyota's dual injected engines might have a shot at lasting twice as long. It's possible manufacturing costs are lower too, although by adding dual injection that would add to costs, and so I think it's more about durability. The port injection, of course, will prevent gunk from building up in the intake valves. I admire Toyota for going for maximum longevity for their engines, although the reality is that you'd need to drive something like 20k+ miles each year, and keep a car more than ten years, to really take advantage of that.

Overall, the Accord with the 1.5T gets 1 more mpg in the epa combined cycle than the Camry 2.5, but that doesn't seem like much. But the Accord's 0-60 time at 7.2 is a bit faster than the Camry's at 7.5. Engineering is often about trade offs, and Honda has gone for a slightly faster and more economical car, but seemingly has traded away long-term durability.

Ford has also moved to dual injection for some of its larger Ecoboost engines, which I think is also about making them last a really long time. Even if you need to replace the turbo on a dual injected Ecoboost at some point, the rest of the engine should be fine and shouldn't have any carbon build-up.

Below is a 5-minute video from Engineering Explained about Toyota's dynamic force engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLxxZm_LRQ

Ford Mustang 5.0 has been dual injection since 2018 but that’s a NA engine so maybe it’ll last 4 times as long.

Interesting that you say turbo engines don’t last as long. That’s always been my assumption but I’ve been corrected several times by posters who claim equal durability if given regular oil changes.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

nyccarguy said:
Maybe the new generations will be better, but I haven't yet seen a video of a turbo vehicle on youtube that's gone beyond 250k in the real world without major repairs. Maybe Honda's turbo engines will go to 200k or so, but Toyota's dual injected engines might have a shot at lasting twice as long.

I have absolutely ZERO POINT ZERO desire to own a car for 200K or 250K miles. Even with the miles I drive (I'm at 43K with a week to go before the 2 year mark), that would take me close to 10 years. This is Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous after all.

I’d like to rack up that kind of mileage just for bragging rights but around here most cars disintegrate around 130k. My record was the old F-150 that clocked around 260k. It was a Fintstone mobile by then.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

explorerx4 said:
Found this picture comparing Maverick to Previous Ranger.

Except for the higher belt line on the Maverick they look about the same. I wonder how the bed size compares. If I remember right you could get a Ranger with a 7’ bed.

qbrozen · September 2021

@oldfarmer50 said:
Ford Mustang 5.0 has been dual injection since 2018 but that’s a NA engine so maybe it’ll last 4 times as long.

Interesting that you say turbo engines don’t last as long. That’s always been my assumption but I’ve been corrected several times by posters who claim equal durability if given regular oil changes.

They can. They do. But, like anything else, it just depends on parts and build quality. Would a high-strung European turbo engine be as reliable as an underpowered NA ‘yota? Not likely.

Longevity of the engine won’t depend on adding extra injectors, though. Valves getting dirty isn’t going to make the engine suddenly explode. You’d start losing power and eventually get some misfire codes. You clean the valves and keep going.

nyccarguy · September 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:
Maybe the new generations will be better, but I haven't yet seen a video of a turbo vehicle on youtube that's gone beyond 250k in the real world without major repairs. Maybe Honda's turbo engines will go to 200k or so, but Toyota's dual injected engines might have a shot at lasting twice as long.

I have absolutely ZERO POINT ZERO desire to own a car for 200K or 250K miles. Even with the miles I drive (I'm at 43K with a week to go before the 2 year mark), that would take me close to 10 years. This is Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous after all.
I’d like to rack up that kind of mileage just for bragging rights but around here most cars disintegrate around 130k. My record was the old F-150 that clocked around 260k. It was a Fintstone mobile by then.

Because of the rust from the salt on the roads?

fintail · September 2021

I see plenty of them here, as this area is a mecca for CUV dumplings, and the Y fills that role for the 3. Often a specific demographic for them - older millennial with awkward facial hair who works in something tech-adjacent, WFH (at least for now), not sure what wife does, 1.6 devilspawn, "doggo", outdoors enthusiast but might go to a paved trailhead every other month, nice house funded with equity from prior house which was aided by the father of the bride, etc.

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Model Y on the road.

I'm pretty sure @pensfan83 has a recent punch, but he hasn't been on, in a while.
The Model Y seems pretty popular in my neck of the woods.

roadburner · September 2021

nyccarguy said:
Maybe the new generations will be better, but I haven't yet seen a video of a turbo vehicle on youtube that's gone beyond 250k in the real world without major repairs. Maybe Honda's turbo engines will go to 200k or so, but Toyota's dual injected engines might have a shot at lasting twice as long.

I have absolutely ZERO POINT ZERO desire to own a car for 200K or 250K miles. Even with the miles I drive (I'm at 43K with a week to go before the 2 year mark), that would take me close to 10 years. This is Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous after all.

There's a guy over on another forum who has driven a Corolla for over 400k miles. He enjoys commenting on topics concerning German vehicles while referencing his automotive journey of self-flagellation- usually something along the lines of, "Lucky you. Let me know how they're doing when they hit 400K miles..."

After putting up with that wingnut for far too long, I finally replied, "If I was faced with the prospect of driving the same car-in particular a soul-slaughtering anodyne appliance-for 400K miles I would just cut to the chase and jump off a very tall building. "

kyfdx · September 2021

fintail said:
I see plenty of them here, as this area is a mecca for CUV dumplings, and the Y fills that role for the 3. Often a specific demographic for them - older millennial with awkward facial hair who works in something tech-adjacent, WFH (at least for now), not sure what wife does, 1.6 devilspawn, "doggo", outdoors enthusiast but might go to a paved trailhead every other month, nice house funded with equity from prior house which was aided by the father of the bride, etc.

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Model Y on the road.

I'm pretty sure @pensfan83 has a recent punch, but he hasn't been on, in a while.
The Model Y seems pretty popular in my neck of the woods.

You seem bitter.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

nyccarguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:
Maybe the new generations will be better, but I haven't yet seen a video of a turbo vehicle on youtube that's gone beyond 250k in the real world without major repairs. Maybe Honda's turbo engines will go to 200k or so, but Toyota's dual injected engines might have a shot at lasting twice as long.

I have absolutely ZERO POINT ZERO desire to own a car for 200K or 250K miles. Even with the miles I drive (I'm at 43K with a week to go before the 2 year mark), that would take me close to 10 years. This is Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous after all.
I’d like to rack up that kind of mileage just for bragging rights but around here most cars disintegrate around 130k. My record was the old F-150 that clocked around 260k. It was a Fintstone mobile by then.
Because of the rust from the salt on the roads?

Exactly. 130k miles or about 8 years is about all you get without annual rust proofing.

fintail · September 2021

I prefer "jaded"

kyfdx said:

fintail said:
I see plenty of them here, as this area is a mecca for CUV dumplings, and the Y fills that role for the 3. Often a specific demographic for them - older millennial with awkward facial hair who works in something tech-adjacent, WFH (at least for now), not sure what wife does, 1.6 devilspawn, "doggo", outdoors enthusiast but might go to a paved trailhead every other month, nice house funded with equity from prior house which was aided by the father of the bride, etc.

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Model Y on the road.

I'm pretty sure @pensfan83 has a recent punch, but he hasn't been on, in a while.
The Model Y seems pretty popular in my neck of the woods.

You seem bitter.

benjaminh · September 2021

Although a well-maintained Toyota engine has a shot of making it to 300k, or maybe even more, compare that to the 1 million miles that almost every Tesla electric motor can go. Telsa batteries, however, might need to be replaced after about 10-12 years, and at about $16,000 with installation the battery packs probably cost about as much as getting a replaced or rebuilt engine on a Toyota.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1051917544301285376?lang=en

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/38915/it-costs-nearly-16000-to-replace-a-tesla-model-3-battery-pack

ab348 · September 2021

benjaminh said:
Although a well-maintained Toyota engine has a shot of making it to 300k, or maybe even more, compare that to the 1 million miles that almost every Tesla electric motor can go. Telsa batteries, however, might need to be replaced after about 10-12 years, and at about $16,000 with installation the battery packs probably cost about as much as getting a replaced or rebuilt engine on a Toyota.

Only if you want to put a LS engine in that Corolla.

explorerx4 · September 2021

You can buy a junkyard LS for not a lot of money.
Here's a million mile Crown Vic.
It did probably also needed battery replacement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hlmFyWqbHk

xwesx · September 2021

corvette said:

mjfloyd1 said:
My 4xe’s were both purchases not leases

Corrected. I'm also thinking I probably missed a punch or two.

I can probably look for myself, but did my 2018 Crosstrek get counted in the 2020 totals? I took delivery of it on 1/6 but started the purchase process on around 12/21.

ab348 · September 2021

explorerx4 said:
You can buy a junkyard LS for not a lot of money.

Yeah, but mating it to that FWD CVT transaxle ain't gonna be cheap.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:
You can buy a junkyard LS for not a lot of money.
Yeah, but mating it to that FWD CVT transaxle ain't gonna be cheap.

I was just imagining how long that combo would last. To the end of the driveway maybe?

qbrozen · September 2021

@oldfarmer50 said:
I was just imagining how long that combo would last. To the end of the driveway maybe?

Just put it into gear and it would return to the dust from whence it came.

fintail · September 2021

Debadged, I will likely leave it this way:

Color match also appears perfect - you get what you pay for.

Michaell · September 2021

fintail said:
Debadged, I will likely leave it this way:

Color match also appears perfect - you get what you pay for.

Looks good. Can’t tell from that angle if it’s a 200D or a 450.

explorerx4 · September 2021

E63?

jmonroe1 · September 2021

Michaell said:

fintail said:
Debadged, I will likely leave it this way:

Color match also appears perfect - you get what you pay for.
Looks good. Can’t tell from that angle if it’s a 200D or a 450.

I’m betting it’s the cheapest one.

jmonroe

corvette · September 2021

xwesx said:
I can probably look for myself, but did my 2018 Crosstrek get counted in the 2020 totals? I took delivery of it on 1/6 but started the purchase process on around 12/21.

Yeah, I had it as 12/13/20.

jmonroe1 · September 2021

corvette said:

xwesx said:
I can probably look for myself, but did my 2018 Crosstrek get counted in the 2020 totals? I took delivery of it on 1/6 but started the purchase process on around 12/21.
Yeah, I had it as 12/13/20.

Just ignore him he’s trying to double dip hoping he can get a little closer to @breld.

jmonroe

fintail · September 2021

If I was ever to rebadge it into something it isn't, E200d would probably get the nod (yes, there's still a 200D equivalent in Europe, 160hp now).

Or I could have a sense of humor and badge it as a Gran Torino or Diplomat or Cressida etc.

Michaell said:

fintail said:
Debadged, I will likely leave it this way:

Color match also appears perfect - you get what you pay for.
Looks good. Can’t tell from that angle if it’s a 200D or a 450.

roadburner · September 2021

Here's an example of the longevity of a relatively high performance turbo engine- my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3: Bought new in July 2007 and sold in January 2016 at 158,000 miles, it was fitted with a Mazdaspeed intake and a mild Hypertech tune- which meant it was making close to 300 hp at the crank. From 5,000 miles to 69,000 miles I ran a 5,000 mile oil change interval using Mobil1 5W-30. At 69,000 miles I extended the OCI to @7,500 miles(still using M1 5W-30). At 115,000 miles I switched to M1 5W-30 Extended Performance. Used oil analysis consistently showed the motor to be in excellent condition- and that a 7,500 mile OCI was conservative. Here's the final UOA:

corvette · September 2021

There is a Honda mechanic on Reddit who posts about a 2006-ish Civic that has around a million miles on it. I think the owner is a medical device rep and could afford something nicer, but wanted to see how long it would go.

roadburner · September 2021

@fintail said:
Debadged, I will likely leave it this way:

Color match also appears perfect - you get what you pay for.

I debadged my 535is, that confused a lot of green peas. If I get an M2C I might rebadge it as a 218d.

tifighter · September 2021

Today was the BMW meetup at Griots. Good turnout. I think the guy in the Z8 thought he won the meet, until another guy in an Orange M1 pulled up. Fun event.

boomchek · September 2021

fintail said:
I see plenty of them here, as this area is a mecca for CUV dumplings, and the Y fills that role for the 3. Often a specific demographic for them - older millennial with awkward facial hair who works in something tech-adjacent, WFH (at least for now), not sure what wife does, 1.6 devilspawn, "doggo", outdoors enthusiast but might go to a paved trailhead every other month, nice house funded with equity from prior house which was aided by the father of the bride, etc.

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Model Y on the road.

I'm pretty sure @pensfan83 has a recent punch, but he hasn't been on, in a while.
The Model Y seems pretty popular in my neck of the woods.

Tons of Model Y's up here in Vancouver too.

andres3 · September 2021

mjfloyd1 said:

@andres3 said:

Where do you get that people are going more than 8 MPH over the average prevailing speed?

I think you are confusing relative speed differentials from the current/live average, with comparisons of average speed from different eras/eons/time periods/ages in history.

The Solomon Curve doesn't care how my Grandpa drove the same freeways 50 years ago as compared to what I drive them today.

OK so the Solomon curve is no longer relevant because it is old data🤦‍♂️

Did you eat extreme low IQ making food?

The speed differentials have to be during the same time period at the same place. Traffic in the vicinity of one another.

boomchek · September 2021

ab348 said:

benjaminh said:
Although a well-maintained Toyota engine has a shot of making it to 300k, or maybe even more, compare that to the 1 million miles that almost every Tesla electric motor can go. Telsa batteries, however, might need to be replaced after about 10-12 years, and at about $16,000 with installation the battery packs probably cost about as much as getting a replaced or rebuilt engine on a Toyota.
Only if you want to put a LS engine in that Corolla.

I appraised this Corolla a couple years back. at 744k miles it was by far the highest mileage vehicle I've come across at work. I believe it was an ex taxi cab too, so who knows if it's been through a few engines or not? Impressive nevertheless.

andres3 · September 2021

kyfdx said:

fintail said:
I see plenty of them here, as this area is a mecca for CUV dumplings, and the Y fills that role for the 3. Often a specific demographic for them - older millennial with awkward facial hair who works in something tech-adjacent, WFH (at least for now), not sure what wife does, 1.6 devilspawn, "doggo", outdoors enthusiast but might go to a paved trailhead every other month, nice house funded with equity from prior house which was aided by the father of the bride, etc.

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Model Y on the road.

I'm pretty sure @pensfan83 has a recent punch, but he hasn't been on, in a while.
The Model Y seems pretty popular in my neck of the woods.

You seem bitter.

You forgot to add avocado toast baking to their description.

sda · September 2021

I like cars too much to drive one that long as I enjoy the selection process and experiencing the differences between vehicles. I have had buyers remorse a couple of times. It was generally not about the performance, ride or handling, but reliability and multiple unscheduled trips for repairs. My 98 Cadillac Catera and 06 VW Passat 2.0t were the worst.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

roadburner said:
Here's an example of the longevity of a relatively high performance turbo engine- my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3: Bought new in July 2007 and sold in January 2016 at 158,000 miles, it was fitted with a Mazdaspeed intake and a mild Hypertech tune- which meant it was making close to 300 hp at the crank. From 5,000 miles to 69,000 miles I ran a 5,000 mile oil change interval using Mobil1 5W-30. At 69,000 miles I extended the OCI to @7,500 miles(still using M1 5W-30). At 115,000 miles I switched to M1 5W-30 Extended Performance. Used oil analysis consistently showed the motor to be in excellent condition- and that a 7,500 mile OCI was conservative. Here's the final UOA:

For every person like you who is obsessive about keeping track of oil life/quality there are dozens who don’t have the time or interest in checking their oil. For them a mileage based schedule is probably best.

Then there’s when the manufacturer throws you a curve. Kia sent me a letter saying they consider ALL driving done by Americans to be “severe” conditions and to change every 3750 miles.

And don’t forget the few who say “why should I change my oil? It came with some when I bought it.” Lots of YouTube videos on that.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

sda said:
I like cars too much to drive one that long as I enjoy the selection process and experiencing the differences between vehicles. I have had buyers remorse a couple of times. It was generally not about the performance, ride or handling, but reliability and multiple unscheduled trips for repairs. My 98 Cadillac Catera and 06 VW Passat 2.0t were the worst.

I’m the opposite. When I find a car I like I hate to give it up.

benjaminh · September 2021

oldfarmer50 said:
....Then there’s when the manufacturer throws you a curve. Kia sent me a letter saying they consider ALL driving done by Americans to be “severe” conditions and to change every 3750 miles....

That just seems strange.

I appreciate the Honda/Acura system that keeps track of how you drive, temperatures, mileage, time, etc, and then just tells you that your oil life is at 40% or whatever. My dealer uses full synthetic, which isn't required, and so I feel okay driving it right till when it says 15% or even 5%, which is usually after about 8000 miles or so.

PS Just looked, and I'm down to 20% on my oil life now on the Acura, and I've already driven 8500 miles since my last oil change in April. Looks like I'll make it to 9000 before the next oil change. That's a lot of miles, but I trust Acura to know what they are doing. And as mentioned it's changed with full synthetic oil.

mjfloyd1 · September 2021

No, I’ve not had any Andres platters to eat

qbrozen · September 2021

@oldfarmer50 said:

Then there’s when the manufacturer throws you a curve. Kia sent me a letter saying they consider ALL driving done by Americans to be “severe” conditions and to change every 3750 miles.

Whaaa?? I’d ask them what driving they consider normal, in that case. I would think much of the driving in the US to be rather tame. Maybe they think we all live in NYC and Alaska.

oldfarmer50 · September 2021

benjaminh said:

oldfarmer50 said:
....Then there’s when the manufacturer throws you a curve. Kia sent me a letter saying they consider ALL driving done by Americans to be “severe” conditions and to change every 3750 miles....
That just seems strange.

I appreciate the Honda/Acura system that keeps track of how you drive, temperatures, mileage, time, etc, and then just tells you that your oil life is at 40% or whatever. My dealer uses full synthetic, which isn't required, and so I feel okay driving it right till when it says 15% or even 5%, which is usually after about 8000 miles or so.

PS Just looked, and I'm down to 20% on my oil life now on the Acura, and I've already driven 8500 miles since my last oil change in April. Looks like I'll make it to 9000 before the next oil change. That's a lot of miles, but I trust Acura to know what they are doing. And as mentioned it's changed with full synthetic oil.

The oil minder on the Mustang comes on once a year regardless of mileage. I’ve never driven it enough to trigger it before that. 5w-20 synthetic.

The cargo van lights up around 5k miles driven but it took over 3 years to reach that so no time trigger. 10w-30 conventional.

I change the Kia at 5k miles with full synthetic and since the Kia phone representative was clueless as to whether that meant conventional or synthetic I just do it my way. 5w-20.

The Sebring is too old for fancy oil minders so I change it every two years which is under 3k miles. 10w-30 conventional.

ab348 · September 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

Then there’s when the manufacturer throws you a curve. Kia sent me a letter saying they consider ALL driving done by Americans to be “severe” conditions and to change every 3750 miles.

Sounds like they are looking for a way to sidestep engine warranty claims in this market. They have had a problem with that.

ronsteve · September 2021

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

Ford Mustang 5.0 has been dual injection since 2018 but that’s a NA engine so maybe it’ll last 4 times as long.

Interesting that you say turbo engines don’t last as long. That’s always been my assumption but I’ve been corrected several times by posters who claim equal durability if given regular oil changes.

They can. They do. But, like anything else, it just depends on parts and build quality. Would a high-strung European turbo engine be as reliable as an underpowered NA ‘yota? Not likely.

Longevity of the engine won’t depend on adding extra injectors, though. Valves getting dirty isn’t going to make the engine suddenly explode. You’d start losing power and eventually get some misfire codes. You clean the valves and keep going.

Define "high-strung?" The adjective we heard when the oil companies started pushing the 3K interval was "high-revving" but the European turbos (and most of the new generation of low-boost turbos) now are tuned to put the torque peak down in the 1500-2000 rpm range, reminiscent of old-school American V8s.

My data point of one turbo car is that I was at 192K on my Volvo, and the only engine issue was that I was about to need the PCV service for the 2nd time. Depending on how antsy/"chronic" I get, the idea with my next vehicle purchase is most likely going to be a return to turbo power.

Sandman6472 · September 2021

I change the oil once a year now in everything since our mileage is under 5K on all three vehicles. Still haven't hit 69K on the Golf yet and since I do like driving it, just keeping it for the forseeable future. Once the Corolla Cross debuts, will give it a test drive and go from there. I've read that it's due for U S release in October of this year but not holding my breath here.
Yesterday at Toyota, was amazed at the lack of inventory to be honest. Most vehicles were in for service work and on that front, they are making a killing! I for one, will not pay an admin fee for any vehicle, I'll just wait until supply ramps up to normal levels. Just wondering if things will ever go back to the way they were pre-pandemic and think they will. It's still economics, pure & simple...supply & demand. Things will get better in time, we just need to be patient awhile longer.

corvette · September 2021

Replaced the drive belt on the Prius and a clamp on the air intake I had to remove to get better access. Any bets on whether the belt was original to the car? I spun both the tensioner and the water pump while it was off and they both felt fine.

qbrozen · September 2021

@ronsteve said:
Define "high-strung?"

Well, if I have to put a number on it, I guess I’d say, conservatively, breaking the 125hp/L mark is when you get into what I would consider more extreme stresses on engine components.

xwesx · September 2021

corvette said:

Replaced the drive belt on the Prius and a clamp on the air intake I had to remove to get better access. Any bets on whether the belt was original to the car? I spun both the tensioner and the water pump while it was off and they both felt fine.

There's a good chance of it, or just a single change somewhere along the way.

I am still using the original drive belt on my Q7 at nearly 120,000 miles, but I condition it each year when I do maintenance, so that tends to extend its life by quite a few miles/years.

jmonroe1 · September 2021

mjfloyd1 said:
No, I’ve not had any Andres platters to eat

Don’t worry he’ll serve you a few before before he catches on.

jmonroe

benjaminh · September 2021

corvette said:
Replaced the drive belt on the Prius and a clamp on the air intake I had to remove to get better access. Any bets on whether the belt was original to the car? I spun both the tensioner and the water pump while it was off and they both felt fine.

Amazing that it could last that many years and miles, but I'm going to guess original.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles