I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

uplanderguy · October 2021

I think that's a Borgward Isabella.

explorerx4 · October 2021

I'm pretty sure it's a Borgward. Don't ask me how I knew that.

uplanderguy · October 2021

RE.: Dodge Demon--my grandfather's sister, straight-arrow Aunt Mae, born 1901, and her (second) husband Al had a '71 or '72 Dart Demon which always struck me funny given her personality. I think Dodge went to the more boring "Dart Sport" name in '73 or so because I'm sure focus groups, or whatever, considered the 'Demon' name not good.

ab348 · October 2021

explorerx4 said:
A lot of good stuff in this short 63 Hollywood video.
Got a chuckle at the end. Did they do what I think they just did? Yup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVEFcysEJ6k

Yep, the camera car ran a red light at the end.

At around the 0:30 mark, "The Party" was soon to become the famed Whisky-A-Go-Go where many of the iconic performers of the '60s L.A. music scene made their names.

A bit further on, the Largo was a burlesque/strip club which became The Roxy, and next to it, the Villa Nova became the Rainbow bar & grill, both rather famous places on the street as well.

ab348 · October 2021

texases said:
What's the unusual white 2 door parked on the right at about 0:36?

Good question. I cannot ID it.

texases · October 2021

No wonder that Borgward didn't look familiar! Any other oddballs?

andre1969 · October 2021

Would a Bentley be that small, though? In relation to the Falcon and front of it, and the '57 T-bird, it doesn't look like that big of a car.

I tried googling Bentley coupes from that era, and the only thing I saw was a Type R. And it looks bigger, to me. Also, the rear wheels on them look like they're either fully open, or fully-skirted, and not with that little lip at the top of the rear.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Borgward Isabella

texases · October 2021

It's a Borgward, see above.

stickguy · October 2021

The door shape does resemble the Bentley. The rear, definitely not.

fintail · October 2021

White car is 100% an Isabella. I've also seen that video claiming to be from 1964. Coming from the right at about 7-8 seconds in is a fintail, driving, could be a similar color to my car.

andre1969 · October 2021

uplanderguy said:
RE.: Dodge Demon--my grandfather's sister, straight-arrow Aunt Mae, born 1901, and her (second) husband Al had a '71 or '72 Dart Demon which always struck me funny given her personality. I think Dodge went to the more boring "Dart Sport" name in '73 or so because I'm sure focus groups, or whatever, considered the 'Demon' name not good.

I've heard that occasionally, over the years, that they changed the name from "Demon" to "Dart Sport", because it didn't sell too well in the Bible Belt. People didn't like the idea of driving a Demon to church on Sundays!

The name change may have helped, although in general, the '73 model year was better for everyone than '72.. In '72, Dodge sold about 49,000 Demons. In 1973, they sold about 79,400 Dart Sports (regular and 340). For comparison Plymouth sold about 227,000 Dusters in '72 and 264,000 in 1973.

On a percentage basis, the Dodge did better, jumping around 62%, versus 16% for the Duster, so there may have been some merit to that name change. Of course, it's easier to make a big percentage jump from a smaller volume, than an already high one, too.

uplanderguy · October 2021

"Demon" back then, in my mind anyway, also was a word used to describe someone like a 'rascal' or something. I never did know what "Duster" was supposed to mean. But, it sure transformed the staid Valiant into something with a little sleeker lines for sure.

sda · October 2021

I think there was a similar argument to change the name of the AMC Gremlin.

ab348 · October 2021

uplanderguy said:
"Demon" back then, in my mind anyway, also was a word used to describe someone like a 'rascal' or something. I never did know what "Duster" was supposed to mean. But, it sure transformed the staid Valiant into something with a little sleeker lines for sure.

I remember reading at the time that the official explanation for the name was that it was a car that dusted off the competition.

I liked the styling of the initial version of the Demon better, both the Dart front end with the angled corners and the different taillight design in the rear. Both it and the Duster suffered from a bit of a fat-hipped look around the rear wheels unfortunately.

texases · October 2021

ab348 said:

uplanderguy said:
"Demon" back then, in my mind anyway, also was a word used to describe someone like a 'rascal' or something. I never did know what "Duster" was supposed to mean. But, it sure transformed the staid Valiant into something with a little sleeker lines for sure.
I remember reading at the time that the official explanation for the name was that it was a car that dusted off the competition.

I liked the styling of the initial version of the Demon better, both the Dart front end with the angled corners and the different taillight design in the rear. Both it and the Duster suffered from a bit of a fat-hipped look around the rear wheels unfortunately.

True, but those fat hips let me cart a TON of stuff back and forth to college!

ab348 · October 2021

texases said:

ab348 said:

uplanderguy said:
"Demon" back then, in my mind anyway, also was a word used to describe someone like a 'rascal' or something. I never did know what "Duster" was supposed to mean. But, it sure transformed the staid Valiant into something with a little sleeker lines for sure.
I remember reading at the time that the official explanation for the name was that it was a car that dusted off the competition.

I liked the styling of the initial version of the Demon better, both the Dart front end with the angled corners and the different taillight design in the rear. Both it and the Duster suffered from a bit of a fat-hipped look around the rear wheels unfortunately.
True, but those fat hips let me cart a TON of stuff back and forth to college!

And they had the Space Duster if you wanted to move long items.

https://youtu.be/rSuiEY5JY6U

texases · October 2021

I hadn't seen that. My back seat probably worked better 'up', anyway, that's where I hung all my clothes. A guy in the dorm claimed his Vega hatchback would hold more. I laughed.

andre1969 · October 2021

I like the '70-72 Dart front-end in general, and especially the '72. I think the way they angled the corners of the front-end gave it sort of a muscular, aggressive stance, that lent itself well to the sportier versions. And the Valiant/Duster, I don't mind, either. It has a clean, no-nonsense look about it, that also goes well with the sportier versions.

But in my opinion, they messed both of them up a bit for '73. The Dart got that little beak for '73, while the Valiant's front-end seemed to have some upscale pretentions about it. But either way, both of them managed to look a bit frumpy to me. Like something Aunt Fran might drive on "Mama's Family." Oh, wait

explorerx4 · October 2021

My Duster had that folding rear seat. I think I slept back there a few times.

benjaminh · October 2021

Saw this for sale on my drive to Costco today.

stickguy · October 2021

I’m embarrassed to say I had the same car as mama. A yellow duster but mine might have been a 74. But I bet hers wasn’t a stick shift!

And it looked less hippy with the lower rear fenders rusted away.

fintail · October 2021

Yours didn't have a prindle.

Mama ends up buying a Nova in a pleasing shade of blue from Fred Willard:

But it ends up being a lemon:

Maybe it wasn't "born blue"

stickguy said:
I’m embarrassed to say I had the same car as mama. A yellow duster but mine might have been a 74. But I bet hers wasn’t a stick shift!

And it looked less hippy with the lower rear fenders rusted away.

stickguy · October 2021

I like that Nova. and the wheels.

yup. no Prindle for me. Though my daughter always called her shift lever that.

now, I have some weird pushbuttons and levers on the Acura, and if I get the Maverick, that has a spinny knob.

benjaminh · October 2021

Yesterday as I was at Iroquois Park in Louisville I was parked near to this c. 2002 Acura TL. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I feel better about the decision to keep my car long-term when I see old Acuras. When I got back from my bike ride the owner was in it, making a phone call as the engine was running. Although it obviously hasn't been repainted, the mechanicals seem to have been well maintained as the engine had a quiet and nicely-running purr to it.

stickguy · October 2021

That vintage engine was a masterpiece. The trannys, not so much. Though my 2000 had 175k on the original when we sold it, and seemed fine still.

sda · October 2021

I bought a very clean 03 TL with 18k in 06. It was a nice car yet boring. I found the ride to be surprisingly stiff and handling to be meh. The Bose stereo with 4 speakers and subwoofer was disappointing. The Acura forums gave me great concern about the frequent transmission failures of the recently introduced 5 sp automatic. I confirmed my car was not covered by the extended warranty on the transmission given to earlier models. These factors scratched my itch very early and prompted me to buy the 06 Passat 2.0t which drove great but was problematic. Perhaps with 20/20 hindsight I should have kept the TL. It didn’t help that my SIL had just bought her 06 TL that I could compare the 03 TL and realize how much better the 06 was compared to the 03. Now my daughter enjoys the 06 TL ‘Baby’ as hers and my SIL enjoys her ‘19 RDX.

stickguy · October 2021

Parked at the mall yesterday, a purple Maclaren.

andre1969 · October 2021

Funny thing about the "PRINDLE"...Aunt Fran's Dart Sport, technically, would not have had it. Mopar just labeled them "P-R-N-D-2-1."

My memory's getting a bit fuzzy, but I think my '80 Malibu was "P-R-N-D-L2-L1" with the "2" and "1" being superscripted.

I had never heard the word "Prindle" until "Mama's Family" taught it to me as a kid. I have heard it every once in awhile since then, although often that's when the subject of that particular episode comes up. So, it has me wondering...was "Prindle" a common slang term in the older days, or was it just something that the writers came up with for "Mama's Family"?

As for that hippy look on the Duster/Demon/Sport, I always thought the narrow rear track on the Dart/Valiant in general, was a detriment to its looks. It didn't look as bad on the sedans and hardtops, but they did still look a bit tipsy from the rear. Most of them these days have wider, sportier rims and bigger tires on them, so these days they don't look so bad, but back in the day, when they were a common sight on the streets, running around on stock, skinny wheels and tires, they really looked different.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Where I live, it seems that Hondas of a decade or so ago had the paint-adhesion issues GM and Ford had fifteen years earlier. My friend has a navy blue '10 Odyssey and it has paint coming off. Also, his aluminum wheels completely look terrible. On Hondas here seems the paint thing is dark blue and white cars.

uplanderguy · October 2021

RE.: 'Prindle'--Eb on 'Green Acres' referred to it as a 'pernundle'.

Mama's Nova...we had a '73 trimmed out like that one, wheels and all, but ours wasn't a Nova Custom like Mama's so lacked the rocker and roof drip rail moldings.

At the time, although in my mind I only compared them as 'compact cars' and not by price, I never could see why someone would choose a Maverick or Hornet over a Nova or Valiant/Dart. The latters just struck me as more substantial.

texases · October 2021

I seem to remember Eva Gabor talking about the 'Prindle' on Green Acres.

texases · October 2021

texases said:
I seem to remember Eva Gabor talking about the 'Prindle' on Green Acres.

Actually, she called it the 'pernundel':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niAlyaTYi20

andre1969 · October 2021

uplanderguy said:
At the time, although in my mind I only compared them as 'compact cars' and not by price, I never could see why someone would choose a Maverick or Hornet over a Nova or Valiant/Dart. The latters just struck me as more substantial.

Brand loyalty might have had something to do with it, especially if it came down to Chevy versus Ford. There are still who would push a Chevy before they'd drive a Ford, and vice versa, and those sentiments were even stronger back then.

The '73 Maverick started at $2,248 for the 2-door fastback, while the Nova started at $2,377 for a base coupe. $129 doesn't seem like a big difference, but adjusting for inflation it's about $796 in today's dollars. Not to sound like a trust fund baby, but to me, $796 seems like chickenfeed, if it gets you into a car that you like better, but for someone who's on a budget, it could make a difference.

I wonder if there might have also been a bit of a difference in buyer demographics. I could see something like a Dart or Nova being popular as a primary/only car for a family, who didn't want the bulk of a bigger car. Heck, even in that "Mama's Family" episode, they got six people (Mama, Aunt Fran, Vint and Naomi, and Vint's kids Buzz and Sonja) into "Blue Thunder", before it blew up!

But with a Maverick, I could see that being popular as a second car. Have a bigger car for when you need to haul the whole family around, but perhaps use a Maverick for commuting back and forth to work. Or, one spouse drives the bigger car and the other drives the Maverick.

I know the Hornet is pretty much at the low end of the spectrum for domestic compacts back then, but for some reason, I just get this perception of it being a bigger, more substantial car than a Maverick. Its 108" wheelbase is shorter than the Maverick sedan's 109.9", but definitely longer than the coupe's 103.0". Maybe it's just something about the proportioning? I think the Maverick had more overhang, so I want to say even the 2-door Maverick was a bit longer than a Hornet?

tjc78 · October 2021

@uplanderguy said:
Where I live, it seems that Hondas of a decade or so ago had the paint-adhesion issues GM and Ford had fifteen years earlier. My friend has a navy blue '10 Odyssey and it has paint coming off. Also, his aluminum wheels completely look terrible. On Hondas here seems the paint thing is dark blue and white cars.

So many manufacturers had problems with white cars. It was so bad on Fords they call it “Ford Fail White”.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Our '73 Nova, I remember completely, stickered at the bottom at $2,625. It was six with 3-speed, no power steering or brakes, AM radio, optional floor shift ($26), Rally Wheels, white-stripe tires, Exterior Decor Group (body side moldings and bright trim around side window frames), and destination from Ypsilanti, MI. It looked quite nice at that low price point, even back then. We took delivery Oct. 6, 1972.

sda · October 2021

uplanderguy said:
Our '73 Nova, I remember completely, stickered at the bottom at $2,625. It was six with 3-speed, no power steering or brakes, AM radio, optional floor shift ($26), Rally Wheels, white-stripe tires, Exterior Decor Group (body side moldings and bright trim around side window frames), and destination from Ypsilanti, MI. It looked quite nice at that low price point, even back then. We took delivery Oct. 6, 1972.

What color ext/int, cloth or vinyl interior, black rubber flooring or carpet? I assume drum brakes? Decor group and wheels dressed it up nicely.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Cloth and vinyl base seating--not terrible for low-line. Rubber on floor. Drum brakes. The wheels and Decor Group made a huge difference.

I will say though, that the standard hub cap in '73 was a 'moon', which looked better IMHO than earlier and later Nova dog-dish caps.

Car was light green metallic outside; a darker green inside.

Add whitewalls, and replace the replaced blackout grille with the correct standard 'argent' plastic grille, and our car looked just like this one:

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/this-super-clean-1973-chevrolet-nova-is-for-sale/

ab348 · October 2021

andre1969 said:

I know the Hornet is pretty much at the low end of the spectrum for domestic compacts back then, but for some reason, I just get this perception of it being a bigger, more substantial car than a Maverick. Its 108" wheelbase is shorter than the Maverick sedan's 109.9", but definitely longer than the coupe's 103.0". Maybe it's just something about the proportioning? I think the Maverick had more overhang, so I want to say even the 2-door Maverick was a bit longer than a Hornet?

Back in '75/'76 we owned both of them simultaneously, our '74 Maverick 4-door LDO and our '75 Hornet Sportabout that dad used for his real estate work. We got the Maverick first as his '68 Volvo 144 was on its last legs and he needed to replace it in the fall of '74. The '75s either had not yet come out or were just coming out, so selection wasn't the best at that moment. I think we/he really wanted a Valiant Brougham or Dart Special Edition but there weren't any at the dealers. The LDO option on the Maverick made it look fancy and that is why they ended up with it. Dad used it for only a short time as his work car before he decided to take the '73 Volvo I was driving to university for that and I got the Maverick. By the next spring he decided he didn't like the Volvo much as it was very troublesome and spent too much time at the dealer, so he bought the Sportabout.

While the Maverick was fancy inside and out, it was clearly less of a car than the Hornet. It was slower, the steering was vague, and the brakes were lousy. Plus it began rusting with a vengeance after a year or so, and it leaked water and wind everywhere. The Hornet was not fancy at all, but it had good-feeling steering, disc brakes that worked well, and just felt much more planted to the road. It was also fairly zippy with the 258-6 and Torque-Flite and felt much more solid overall. I really liked how it drove and could see the appeal of one that had a nicer interior than what ours came with, though the dash design would have needed to be totally redone to really fix it, which they finally did when it became the Concord.

sda · October 2021

The dash in the Maverick and Hornet had to many pieces that had a poor fit which really gave them a cheap an uninspired look. The Dart/Valiant and GM Novas looked better though we’re still lacking any real style.

fintail · October 2021

Interesting to think of the Hornet. When I was on the coast visiting a few weeks ago, I talked with my uncle, who bought a Hornet from a government surplus auction in the late 70s. Apparently it was quite cheap, low mileage, and had been maintained - he said it was a decent solid car, albeit basic. He replaced it with an Omni coupe.

ab348 said:

andre1969 said:

I know the Hornet is pretty much at the low end of the spectrum for domestic compacts back then, but for some reason, I just get this perception of it being a bigger, more substantial car than a Maverick. Its 108" wheelbase is shorter than the Maverick sedan's 109.9", but definitely longer than the coupe's 103.0". Maybe it's just something about the proportioning? I think the Maverick had more overhang, so I want to say even the 2-door Maverick was a bit longer than a Hornet?
Back in '75/'76 we owned both of them simultaneously, our '74 Maverick 4-door LDO and our '75 Hornet Sportabout that dad used for his real estate work. We got the Maverick first as his '68 Volvo 144 was on its last legs and he needed to replace it in the fall of '74. The '75s either had not yet come out or were just coming out, so selection wasn't the best at that moment. I think we/he really wanted a Valiant Brougham or Dart Special Edition but there weren't any at the dealers. The LDO option on the Maverick made it look fancy and that is why they ended up with it. Dad used it for only a short time as his work car before he decided to take the '73 Volvo I was driving to university for that and I got the Maverick. By the next spring he decided he didn't like the Volvo much as it was very troublesome and spent too much time at the dealer, so he bought the Sportabout.

While the Maverick was fancy inside and out, it was clearly less of a car than the Hornet. It was slower, the steering was vague, and the brakes were lousy. Plus it began rusting with a vengeance after a year or so, and it leaked water and wind everywhere. The Hornet was not fancy at all, but it had good-feeling steering, disc brakes that worked well, and just felt much more planted to the road. It was also fairly zippy with the 258-6 and Torque-Flite and felt much more solid overall. I really liked how it drove and could see the appeal of one that had a nicer interior than what ours came with, though the dash design would have needed to be totally redone to really fix it, which they finally did when it became the Concord.

uplanderguy · October 2021

My uncle was an AMC guy. He bought a new '72 Hornet shortly before we bought our '73 Nova. I do remember that before he bought his next new AMC, a '74 Matador sedan so late in the run it had the interior seat trim of a '75, the '72 Hornet had rust spots on the top of the LF fender. It did not have inner fenders.

I did always like the looks of Hornet Hatchback, introduced for '73.

The posting about the instrument panels of Hornet and Maverick cars was spot-on IMHO. Early Mavericks just had an open shelf area instead of a glovebox, and I'm thinking Hornets (and Gremlins, which shared the same panel) had a shelf but also had a glovebox.

Without looking at pics, my old memories of the Hornet panel bring up smallish round instruments, bright green instrument lights, and a lot of hard plastic where you could see and feel it.

The Valiant and Nova panels, agree, weren't great, but they were better.

The Nova wheelbase was 111", only an inch shorter than a Chevelle coupe. The trunk space and rear-seat legroom bettered a '72 Chevelle coupe. I always wondered why they bothered to make both so close in size. The Nova was a good bit less expensive, but also more basic in its sub-frame/unibody construction, sedan-only bodystyles, drum brakes, etc.

sda · October 2021

Sorry for all the typos in my previous post, I know better. I believe front disc brakes were optional on most GM intermediates until 73 when they became standard. They were optional on mom’s 72 Cutlass Supreme. In rainy New Orleans where streets often flooded mom was amazed and pleased the car still stopped decently when the brakes got soaking wet.

ab348 · October 2021

Our Hornet's dash had a lot of painted die-cast metal pieces that were screwed together. Even the glove box door was like that. The plastic shelf under the dash was the cheapest-feeling hard plastic they could find. Like the Maverick it had painted metal for the tops of the doors inside (the Maverick actually had that on top , bottom and front interior surfaces of the door with the upholstered panel inserted in the center). Ford used a clear plastic "grommet" for the door lock buttons which tended to break and let the loose lock knobs rattle against the metal. One of the very strange things about the Hornet was that the A-pillar covers were plastic and had a little extension that ran back from there along the edge of the headliner, but after 4" or so it was cut off and a large screw was visible. There was no corresponding piece for it to mate with running further back. That always bugged me.

Found this pic online that looked a lot like ours right down to the color:

uplanderguy · October 2021

One thing about the exterior of early '70's AMC cars, in my memory anyway, that struck me as odd was their flush-mounted door handles that required you to use only one or two fingers to open. Even the Beretta's 'beer tap' handle years later, you could get four fingers around.

uplanderguy · October 2021

RE.: Duster variants--remember the "Feather Duster", a lightweight model for max MPG?

fintail · October 2021

Dusters always make me think of Al Bundy's "Dodge", which was a Plymouth Duster.

This one, before he rebought it painted gold/tan, appears to be the "Gold Duster" variant, by the badge:

texases · October 2021

Lots of special editions:
“ Numerous trim and option package variants of the Duster were offered with names that included Feather Duster, Gold Duster, Silver Duster, Space Duster, Duster Twister, Duster 340, and Duster 360. ”

I’d like either of the last two.

sda · October 2021

texases said:
Lots of special editions:

“ Numerous trim and option package variants of the Duster were offered with names that included Feather Duster, Gold Duster, Silver Duster, Space Duster, Duster Twister, Duster 340, and Duster 360. ”

I’d like either of the last two.

Could you get a Duster with the 340/360 without it being a Twister? I enjoy having a sleeper.

texases · October 2021

I don’t know. I’d think do, given how you could mix and match things when you ordered a car back then. It wouldn’t have been a Twister, it would have been badged a 340 or 360. But maybe you could have gotten the performance options without the stripes and fake hood scoops.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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