Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

jmonroe1 · December 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe1 said:

sda said:

qbrozen said:
Good god. I have to get mine listed ASAP. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pxmWYLd/2008-mercedes-benz-ml63-amg

I read your comment Looks like a lot of the repairs done to that ML mirror what you've experienced. I am a bit surprised so many issues at relatively low miles. My thinking of higher mileage is 150K+. Of course 30 years ago it was more
around 100k, lol.
Back in the 60’s and 70’s the half life of domestic cars was 50K miles if you were lucky.

jmonroe
I ran a 69’ Plymouth Satellite up to 160k miles so it could be done.

There are always exceptions. How much of the engine/tranny/suspension were original at the end?

BTW, where you live I’m surprised that rust didn’t kill before 80K miles

jmonroe

28firefighter · December 2021

@explorerx4 said:
@28firefighter,
Other than being underpowered, anything else disappointing?

Sounds like the steering wasn’t communicative enough for a sports sedan.

stickguy · December 2021

if you want that kind of steering, just move over to the BRZ department and they can hook you right up.

qbrozen · December 2021

@stickguy said:
now this, IMO, is the way to do a resto mod. I love it, even the colot. Very authentic looking, but all the modern capabilities you want to be able to use it. And not at all overdone. I guess this is about as close to a modern 1969 as you can get!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-plymouth-satellite-6/

Love it. But odd to do all that work and say “eh, the next guy can adjust the driver’s door.”

stickguy · December 2021

dial up the Coronet. See if you can get it to come out like this!

graphicguy · December 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe1 said:

sda said:

qbrozen said:
Good god. I have to get mine listed ASAP. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pxmWYLd/2008-mercedes-benz-ml63-amg

I read your comment Looks like a lot of the repairs done to that ML mirror what you've experienced. I am a bit surprised so many issues at relatively low miles. My thinking of higher mileage is 150K+. Of course 30 years ago it was more
around 100k, lol.
Back in the 60’s and 70’s the half life of domestic cars was 50K miles if you were lucky.

jmonroe
I ran a 69’ Plymouth Satellite up to 160k miles so it could be done.

I would expect nothing less from you! (J/k)!

qbrozen · December 2021

Probably good news: the Eagle has been bid beyond what I'd pay for a novelty item.

breld · December 2021

@stickguy - I love that estoril blue 230i you posted, though for a RWD 230, I'd probably want a manual.

Really should have kept my very cheap 228i that I had stumbled upon a couple years ago.

breld · December 2021

Just found this - not a great color combo, but really well equipped and local to me.

Also very expensive, which is not surprising.

2017 340 manual

oldfarmer50 · December 2021

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe1 said:

sda said:

qbrozen said:
Good god. I have to get mine listed ASAP. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pxmWYLd/2008-mercedes-benz-ml63-amg

I read your comment Looks like a lot of the repairs done to that ML mirror what you've experienced. I am a bit surprised so many issues at relatively low miles. My thinking of higher mileage is 150K+. Of course 30 years ago it was more
around 100k, lol.
Back in the 60’s and 70’s the half life of domestic cars was 50K miles if you were lucky.

jmonroe
I ran a 69’ Plymouth Satellite up to 160k miles so it could be done.
There are always exceptions. How much of the engine/tranny/suspension were original at the end?

BTW, where you live I’m surprised that rust didn’t kill before 80K miles

jmonroe

The engine was original except for a few valves that got bent thanks to the timing chain falling off at 139k. The transmission was rebuilt at about 120k because as a kid we would have drop patch burn out competitions.

The rust did a number on it of course to the point where if you pulled the rear seat back forward and threw your empty beer cans into the trunk they would roll out through the holes in the rear quarter. The front fenders (which had no inner fenders) rusted to the point where the car would put up rooster tails when driving in the rain.

breld · December 2021

This is a really nice example too...

2018 330i

breld · December 2021

Another nice option for a manual...

Accord Sport

breld · December 2021

I mean if we really want a performance wagon...

https://www.schompmini.com/inventory/used-2021-audi-rs-6-avant-awd-station-wagon-wua1caf2xmn901771

Michaell · December 2021

breld said:
Another nice option for a manual...

Accord Sport

OK, that one I like.

oldfarmer50 · December 2021

This is one I never saw:

https://youtu.be/rWejEiJl3dg

au1994 · December 2021

breld said:
I mean if we really want a performance wagon...

https://www.schompmini.com/inventory/used-2021-audi-rs-6-avant-awd-station-wagon-wua1caf2xmn901771

Yummy…

stickguy · December 2021

I couldn’t get myself to pay 44k for a 2017. The silver one, that looks like a good deal. Same price as the Accord too. Something like that I might do if it was by me.

Same price as the Si I looked at (with ADM), and probably close to the Integra at MSRP.

au1994 · December 2021

Punch to report. I believe I mentioned the plan to buy my BiL’s 2011 328 sedan for au1994 jr. Well, the transaction has been completed. We wanted him to have about a month of seat time before he turns 16 so he will indeed have a Merry Christmas!

stickguy · December 2021

@breld, I wanted it with a stick too, but I’m guessing by 2021, that wasn’t an option. Otherwise I probably would have gone to drive it!

I should have bought your 228 too.

qbrozen · December 2021

au1994 said:
Punch to report. I believe I mentioned the plan to buy my BiL’s 2011 328 sedan for au1994 jr. Well, the transaction has been completed. We wanted him to have about a month of seat time before he turns 16 so he will indeed have a Merry Christmas!

our sons are very close in age. Mine (the older one) is turning 16 in 2 months and 1 day. He wants me to give him some seat time over the holiday break. He will be starting driver's ed in April, I believe.

au1994 · December 2021

The more seat time, the better. Its easy to make fun of teenage drivers but all in all he has done well.

He’s got a heavy foot but he comes by that naturally. We’ll be keeping a close eye on that via Life360.

dad23 · December 2021

We have a few like that too, and when I mention it to them, I get "that look" from you know who...

Michaell · December 2021

I’d rather not remember my kids’ teenage driving years…

tjc78 · December 2021

@Michaell said:
I’d rather not remember my kids’ teenage driving years…

I’m not ready for any of that yet!

stickguy · December 2021

Thankfully mine did not have any big problems. Not even 1 wreck. Or ticket. I feel fortunate.

28firefighter · December 2021

At the rate autonomous driving is going, I'm not sure my son will even have teenage driving years...

stickguy · December 2021

Not sure where the poor people, entry level cars for new drivers are coming from though.

tjc78 · December 2021

My son is 7, I’m thinking by the time he drives even something like a Sonic or Accent will have self drive available as an option and all the safety nannies standard.

au1994 · December 2021

stickguy said:
Not sure where the poor people, entry level cars for new drivers are coming from though.

No kidding. Had we not been able to work this deal with my BiL I am not sure what we would have done. Likely bit the bullet and overpaid for something for my wife and passed on the X1 to Jr. More financial commitment than we really wanted to make but in this market, at the low price point we were looking for him, I shudder to think what we would have ended up with.

My BiL has a company car and thats what allowed us to do this. He estimates he put 1k miles on the BMW this year.

greg128 · December 2021

there is a very smart and interesting article about green energy and electric cars by physicist and engineer Mark P Mills. Some of the main points:

Among the material realities of green energy:

Building wind turbines and solar panels to generate electricity, as well as batteries to fuel electric vehicles, requires, on average, more than 10 times the quantity of materials, compared with building machines using hydrocarbons to deliver the same amount of energy to society.

A single electric car contains more cobalt than 1,000 smartphone batteries; the blades on a single wind turbine have more plastic than 5 million smartphones; and a solar array that can power one data center uses more glass than 50 million phones.

Replacing hydrocarbons with green machines under current plans—never mind aspirations for far greater expansion—will vastly increase the mining of various critical minerals around the world. For example, a single electric car battery weighing 1,000 pounds requires extracting and processing some 500,000 pounds of materials. Averaged over a battery’s life, each mile of driving an electric car “consumes” five pounds of earth. Using an internal combustion engine consumes about 0.2 pounds of liquids per mile.

Oil, natural gas, and coal are needed to produce the concrete, steel, plastics, and purified minerals used to build green machines. The energy equivalent of 100 barrels of oil is used in the processes to fabricate a single battery that can store the equivalent of one barrel of oil.

By 2050, with current plans, the quantity of worn-out solar panels—much of it nonrecyclable—will constitute double the tonnage of all today’s global plastic waste, along with over 3 million tons per year of unrecyclable plastics from worn-out wind turbine blades. By 2030, more than 10 million tons per year of batteries will become garbage.

The entire piece here:
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/mines-minerals-and-green-energy-reality-check

tjc78 · December 2021

Just goes to show you the statement “There is no free lunch” speaks a lot of truth.

oldfarmer50 · December 2021

stickguy said:
Not sure where the poor people, entry level cars for new drivers are coming from though.

Better buy up all the Crown Vics and Buick LeSabres while there’s still time and then name your price when the parents come looking for a first car.

oldfarmer50 · December 2021

tjc78 said:
My son is 7, I’m thinking by the time he drives even something like a Sonic or Accent will have self drive available as an option and all the safety nannies standard.

In 9 years he can probably have his pick of my fleet at an estate sale.

oldfarmer50 · December 2021

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
Not sure where the poor people, entry level cars for new drivers are coming from though.
No kidding. Had we not been able to work this deal with my BiL I am not sure what we would have done. Likely bit the bullet and overpaid for something for my wife and passed on the X1 to Jr. More financial commitment than we really wanted to make but in this market, at the low price point we were looking for him, I shudder to think what we would have ended up with.

My BiL has a company car and thats what allowed us to do this. He estimates he put 1k miles on the BMW this year.

Stop that, we’re all thinking emotionally these days. Logic and facts have no place here.

qbrozen · December 2021

@greg128 said:

each mile of driving an electric car “consumes” five pounds of earth

By no means am I a greenie, and I often argue the consumption of materials and real estate for these things, but statements like these weaken a position. It is obviously not true. What he means is that materials are extracted from 5 pounds of earth, but only a very small percentage is “consumed” and the rest goes back to whence it came.

Michaell · December 2021

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
Not sure where the poor people, entry level cars for new drivers are coming from though.
No kidding. Had we not been able to work this deal with my BiL I am not sure what we would have done. Likely bit the bullet and overpaid for something for my wife and passed on the X1 to Jr. More financial commitment than we really wanted to make but in this market, at the low price point we were looking for him, I shudder to think what we would have ended up with.

My BiL has a company car and thats what allowed us to do this. He estimates he put 1k miles on the BMW this year.

Gotta update the signature line!

explorerx4 · December 2021

@qbrozen,
"the rest goes back to whence it came." Also not true.

tjc78 · December 2021

@qbrozen said:

@greg128 said:

each mile of driving an electric car “consumes” five pounds of earth

By no means am I a greenie, and I often argue the consumption of materials and real estate for these things, but statements like these weaken a position. It is obviously not true. What he means is that materials are extracted from 5 pounds of earth, but only a very small percentage is “consumed” and the rest goes back to whence it came.

Agreed there are certainly a lot of extremes used in that article, but there are some valid points.

qbrozen · December 2021

@explorerx4 said:
@qbrozen,
"the rest goes back to whence it came." Also not true.

Where do you think it goes? And I mean back to the earth, fyi, not necessarily the exact spot in the earth it came from.

tifighter · December 2021

Manhattan Institute? Oh boy.
From their website-

Anytime you hear things like "foster greater economic choice and individual responsibility", it's time to google where the funding comes from. I won't spoil it, but you shouldn't be surprised. After the ridiculous cobalt quote made it clear that it was a hit piece, I just had to look...

explorerx4 · December 2021

@qbrozen,
The extraction process is key. Do you think the minerals being mined for just magically separate from the other mined material?

jmonroe1 · December 2021

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
Not sure where the poor people, entry level cars for new drivers are coming from though.
No kidding. Had we not been able to work this deal with my BiL I am not sure what we would have done. Likely bit the bullet and low for something for my wife and passed on the X1 to Jr. More financial commitment than we really wanted to make but in this market, at the price point we were looking for him, I shudder to think what we would have ended up with.

My BiL has a company car and thats what allowed us to do this. He estimates he put 1k miles on the BMW this year.

stickguy · December 2021

yowzers. Watching a Ford dealer livestream (guy in Kansas that is a big Maverick guru now, and dealer that has ordered a huge number of them from all over the country).

he was talking about what they were selling any units that customers ordered but didn't take. He said they are looking at Manheim, dealer auction results and marking up from that to get retail. Those are going 5-10K OVER sticker. At the dealer auction. If they get any stock units they will sell XL and XLT for 5K ADM, and Hybrids and Lariats for 7.5K.

now I am getting excited for mine to show up next week!

jmonroe1 · December 2021

stickguy said:
yowzers. Watching a Ford dealer livestream (guy in Kansas that is a big Maverick guru now, and dealer that has ordered a huge number of them from all over the country).

he was talking about what they were selling any units that customers ordered but didn't take. He said they are looking at Manheim, dealer auction results and marking up from that to get retail. Those are going 5-10K OVER sticker. At the dealer auction. If they get any stock units they will sell XL and XLT for 5K ADM, and Hybrids and Lariats for 7.5K.

now I am getting excited for mine to show up next week!

When there is that kind of money to be made you better hope yours didn’t go right to the Manheim auction block.

jmonroe

ab348 · December 2021

There is a story in Automotive News behind their paywall apparently about a KPMG report that used car prices are about to fall, maybe even crash, I dunno. More research reqd.

28firefighter · December 2021

If used car prices crash, I smell opportunity.

stickguy · December 2021

I saw something on Youtube (from the YAA channel) talking about that. IIRC, one of the experts they had on said it was more toward a Q3, or into early 2023, likelihood. Though Omicron could throw a wrench in things of course. But until new cars ramp up significantly, the supply of used isn't going to go up, and the demand isn't going down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-BuqnBfSPk

stickguy · December 2021

28firefighter said:
If used car prices crash, I smell opportunity.

Buy, Mortimer, buy.

hopefully anyone that bought or leased to flip gets their sales down before prices crash if they do. Or they like what they buy if they need to keep them.

stickguy · December 2021

Breld got my interest piqued with all those RWD BMWs out by him (seems like CO would be more AWD centric, but maybe not?) So I did a quick cars.com search. BMWS, 2018+, up to $40,000. 30 miles of me.

255 listings. 1 manual trans. And I did check, unlike many listings it was actually true. This one, which I happen to even like a bit. Love the insides. Not a fan of the black but at least it matches, and a big 2 door is not really what I am looking for. but at least the deal does not seem absurd.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/9a0e344b-dd44-4858-b134-c7493e470905/

Edit: read the Carfax. normal stuff, other than a new clutch put in at 18,800 miles. Somebody in Miami must not have been good at driving a manual. But, only 6 months/1,500 miles ago, so probably a good thing. Better than finding out 6 months from now it needs one!

qbrozen · December 2021

@explorerx4 said:
@qbrozen,
The extraction process is key. Do you think the minerals being mined for just magically separate from the other mined material?

Of course not. But I’m not following what that has to do with the leftovers. I’m assuming they don’t launch it into space. I could be wrong. I picture it like a bunch of 49’ers with pans knee deep in the river. All the stuff they don’t want goes right back in the river.

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