Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

breld · January 2022

qbrozen said:

breld said:

So, basically with a little time and paperwork, you secured yourself a $7,500 tax credit? And you got an extended test drive in a Mach E.
Yup.

And, yes, I don't want it to drop in value any more. I have no idea if it will, but I can't say I'm very trusting of electric cars holding up. I mean, all it needs is a Bolt-like fiasco and I'm sunk. No thanks.

And you got it in time to claim the credit for 2021, right?

breld · January 2022

tifighter said:

breld said:

qbrozen said:
Just agreed to $48,105 for the mach-e, which is a whopping $46 more than my OTD price. Was hoping to keep up in that $50k range, but offers were so goofy and varied that I kind of gave up and don't feel much like chasing my tail. Plus, it is the same outfit I sold my Jeep to, so I know they show up with check in hand and do all paperwork via email. Something to be said for convenience. FYI, we put 960 miles on it at this point.

Oh, and I reached out to our MB salesman. He said his system is showing March/April for our Sprinter, which he considers good news since at least it has some sort of timeframe attached to it.
So, basically with a little time and paperwork, you secured yourself a $7,500 tax credit? And you got an extended test drive in a Mach E.
Stop posting and go see that GR86. The people need to know.

Fine - I'm leaving now.

qbrozen · January 2022

breld said:

And you got it in time to claim the credit for 2021, right?

yup

stickguy · January 2022

You might disagree, but seems like that rule could use some tweaking to avoid this kind of flipping. Maybe a minimum time to keep it? Though not sure how they would enforce that.

Actually, at this point, should get rid of it entirely. Let EVs survive on their own merits.

imidazol97 · January 2022

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:
In January 1994 we had a huge snowfall for KY- over 22" on top of 1" of ice in less than 12 hours. I had my POS 1973 Bronco but of course it wouldn't start. The snowfall arrived Sunday night and we didn't get out the drive until Friday, when the owner of an adjacent farm plowed our road. Less than 6 months later the Volvo 740 Turbo was traded for a Pathfinder SE with the Off Road package.
So the Bronco had Ford’s patented life saving feature that kept you home when it was dangerous to drive? My 74’ Dodge had something similar except it would let you get to the bottom of the hill before it would stall. That way you’d get some exercise while walking home. I think it was called the hiker’s option.

Second only to the Lucas ignitions used on British vehicles.

qbrozen · January 2022

stickguy said:
You might disagree, but seems like that rule could use some tweaking to avoid this kind of flipping. Maybe a minimum time to keep it? Though not sure how they would enforce that.

Actually, at this point, should get rid of it entirely. Let EVs survive on their own merits.

I totally agree.

oldfarmer50 · January 2022

qbrozen said:
Huh. This is super interesting. Priced very cheap, but clean carfax. What am I missing? Any reason why I wouldn't jump on this? I know it is a porker, but 325hp AWD with heated/cooled seats? Tough to beat the value here. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1785d7a2-069e-43d6-820a-d9c8fa244276/

Is the 2.7L ecoboost one of those with an internal water pump that can cause sudden catastrophic engine failure?

nyccarguy · January 2022

I got a "get your KBB Instant Cash Offer" email from the dealer where I service my truck. I filled out the information, got the email with my truck's value, and no less than 5 minutes later got a phone call from the dealer asking me if I'm ready to come down today to sell them my truck. I inquired about inventory and pricing. "We are currently doing market pricing on our inventory. Most vehicles are selling for between $2,500 - $4,000 over MSRP." I then said: "Plus your $599 conveyance fee?" She said: "Yes, that is correct."

I told her I extended my lease until March. She said she would call me back in February.

cdnpinhead · January 2022

And the beat goes on.

au1994 · January 2022

stickguy said:
You might disagree, but seems like that rule could use some tweaking to avoid this kind of flipping. Maybe a minimum time to keep it? Though not sure how they would enforce that.

Actually, at this point, should get rid of it entirely. Let EVs survive on their own merits.

Looks like Ford is doing just that on the F150 Lightening.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-dealers-can-ban-f-150-lightning-customers-from-reselling-trucks-to-discourage-scalpers/ar-AASxOGq

qbrozen · January 2022

oldfarmer50 said:

Is the 2.7L ecoboost one of those with an internal water pump that can cause sudden catastrophic engine failure?

Did a quick search and didn't find any widespread issues other than from those who didn't pay attention to the signs or whatever.

qbrozen · January 2022

so much for that!

They had me jump through all their hoops and then came back to say the price is an error and they want $29.5k.

breld · January 2022

Didn’t take much of a drive since I wouldn’t be interested in the automatic, but I mostly wanted to see how the fit and comfort is, and it’s great. No issues at all fitting my 6’ 3” frame in the drivers seat. So much better choice that way than a Miata.

It’s attractive enough, but it doesn’t necessarily set my heart afire (like the Supra did). But it’s handsome for sure.

stickguy · January 2022

Nice upgrade from gen 1.

breld · January 2022

At MSRP probably a better deal than a lightly used gen 1 too.

au1994 · January 2022

Anybody seen or driven a 400Z?

stickguy · January 2022

For sure. If you can get it at sticker.

Maybe I should go ask if they will trade me even up for the Maverick!

laurasdada · January 2022

~9" snow here; I've already shoveled the walk, cleaned the snow off the CX-5 and taken doggie for two walks. Doggie loves the snow, me too. Although I haven't skied in a few years...

And, I reserve the right to snowbird at a time and place of my choosing. Ok, who are we kidding; at a time and place of her choosing.

explorerx4 · January 2022

@qbrozen,
The price on that Fusion was really low. Car does have a great maintenance history, though.

jmonroe1 · January 2022

@carnaught said:
70-degrees today in AZ. Sorry to rub it in, guys.

Is that a prop plane that’s about to land in your back yard?

jmonroe

andres3 · January 2022

sda said:

qbrozen said:
As to the MB, if that previous sale can give a good indication, I figure mine should fetch $20k, easy. $13k original purchase price, shipping/tax/tags, plus the parts I already put into it (the head bolt conversion, etc), I think that puts me to about $20,700'ish out of pocket.

TRX is due first. I'll check in again with chat tomorrow and see where everything is.

I've gotten on reply on the subie. Just hit up another 4-5 dealers. I could still fall back to something less pricey.

Here is a really intriguing one. A bit on the pricey side. $12.5k would be plenty high on it.

Could always supersize it. Kinda defeats the purpose for me looking for a sporty, tossable snowbound vehicle.
When you purchased the MLB were you aware of the mechanical issues? This is an over-generalization but it seems German cars become quite needy as they approach 100k where Asian and to a lesser degree, domestic do not require much attention. The driving dynamics, solidity and perceived quality of German cars is typically top notch.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to count the dollars spent.

Another way is to tally how often you have to deal with an issue (like once every 3 or 4 months), or just an annual/occasional hiccup?

For me the constant nagging every 3 or 4 months issues on the domestic were more bothersome.

oldfarmer50 · January 2022

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
You might disagree, but seems like that rule could use some tweaking to avoid this kind of flipping. Maybe a minimum time to keep it? Though not sure how they would enforce that.

Actually, at this point, should get rid of it entirely. Let EVs survive on their own merits.
Looks like Ford is doing just that on the F150 Lightening.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-dealers-can-ban-f-150-lightning-customers-from-reselling-trucks-to-discourage-scalpers/ar-AASxOGq

Oh wow, there’s a new term for this group…..mercenaries!

oldfarmer50 · January 2022

qbrozen said:
so much for that!

They had me jump through all their hoops and then came back to say the price is an error and they want $29.5k.

Makes me feel good that I only paid 8k for my son’s 2010 Fusion with 29k miles. But that was 18 months ago, another world entirely.

andres3 · January 2022

jmonroe1 said:

@andres3 said:

Chump change!

You tell em. Your tax bill was probably around half of that.

jmonroe

And the tax man cometh today!!!!! Picking up the S4 this afternoon!!!

2 checkbooks and a raised limit credit card in tow.

explorerx4 · January 2022

@oldfarmer50,
That Fusion Sport compared to a 4 Cyl Fusion(or even a 2010 V6) is like comparing your Mustang to your Sebring, performance wise.

breld · January 2022

stickguy said:
You might disagree, but seems like that rule could use some tweaking to avoid this kind of flipping. Maybe a minimum time to keep it? Though not sure how they would enforce that.

Actually, at this point, should get rid of it entirely. Let EVs survive on their own merits.

I disagree. The tax incentive most certainly only gets paid once, and the EV is out on the road. So, mission accomplished.

breld · January 2022

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
You might disagree, but seems like that rule could use some tweaking to avoid this kind of flipping. Maybe a minimum time to keep it? Though not sure how they would enforce that.

Actually, at this point, should get rid of it entirely. Let EVs survive on their own merits.
Looks like Ford is doing just that on the F150 Lightening.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-dealers-can-ban-f-150-lightning-customers-from-reselling-trucks-to-discourage-scalpers/ar-AASxOGq

Well, that's not addressing the tax incentive. That will still go to the original purchaser (like Q did). I suppose it helps the Lightnings stay in the hands of those who will actually use and enjoy it. Sort of like preventing ticket scalpers profiting and jacking up prices for those who actually go and enjoy the concert.

roadburner · January 2022

@breld said:
Didn’t take much of a drive since I wouldn’t be interested in the automatic, but I mostly wanted to see how the fit and comfort is, and it’s great. No issues at all fitting my 6’ 3” frame in the drivers seat. So much better choice that way than a Miata.

It’s attractive enough, but it doesn’t necessarily set my heart afire (like the Supra did). But it’s handsome for sure.

I will admit that I still kind of like the Supra 3.0-I’d take one over a new M240i-but the inept Toyota dealers cool my enthusiasm to an extreme degree.

breld · January 2022

In the half hour it took me to drive home from the Toyota dealership, my enthusiasm waned a bit.

I definitely want something with a manual, but I think I want something a bit more premium. The Supra definitely spoiled me, as it felt like the BMW coupe it is, and even the bargain 228i had a nice premium feel to it.

The new Z may have that more upscale feel. But I'll probably continue the ongoing search for a 2-series. I could be interested in anything from a 230i, to an M240i to an M2.

tifighter · January 2022

breld said:
Didn’t take much of a drive since I wouldn’t be interested in the automatic, but I mostly wanted to see how the fit and comfort is, and it’s great. No issues at all fitting my 6’ 3” frame in the drivers seat. So much better choice that way than a Miata.

It’s attractive enough, but it doesn’t necessarily set my heart afire (like the Supra did). But it’s handsome for sure.

Nice. I like the color, but of course I do since it's the same color as our 3, Y and Z4. I think one of these at MSRP right now is a pretty good deal. I think they are going to hold their value for awhile - it will take some time for all the 86 people out there to actually see one, realize it's on the market, and then pester their dealer about it. Plus the general car shortage, plus the Toyota badge, etc. And I also think this will hurt demand for the Supra before the year ends, so if anyone wants one of those, just hold tight.

And what about the BRZ? Since it's such an outlier in their lineup, how proud will their dealers be?

tifighter · January 2022

au1994 said:

stickguy said:
You might disagree, but seems like that rule could use some tweaking to avoid this kind of flipping. Maybe a minimum time to keep it? Though not sure how they would enforce that.

Actually, at this point, should get rid of it entirely. Let EVs survive on their own merits.
Looks like Ford is doing just that on the F150 Lightening.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-dealers-can-ban-f-150-lightning-customers-from-reselling-trucks-to-discourage-scalpers/ar-AASxOGq

HINT- it's not the customers doing the scalping, Ford...

tifighter · January 2022

breld said:
In the half hour it took me to drive home from the Toyota dealership, my enthusiasm waned a bit.

I think I've identified the problem-

ab348 · January 2022

For the BMW faithful here, Harry Metcalfe reviews the M3 Competition.

https://youtu.be/JucWxcoKD90

corvette · January 2022

tifighter said:
Page 2674 - where the 22 title fight between Q and Breld officially started.

The title of Grand Poobah is on the line!

breld · January 2022

tifighter said:

breld said:
Didn’t take much of a drive since I wouldn’t be interested in the automatic, but I mostly wanted to see how the fit and comfort is, and it’s great. No issues at all fitting my 6’ 3” frame in the drivers seat. So much better choice that way than a Miata.

It’s attractive enough, but it doesn’t necessarily set my heart afire (like the Supra did). But it’s handsome for sure.

Nice. I like the color, but of course I do since it's the same color as our 3, Y and Z4. I think one of these at MSRP right now is a pretty good deal. I think they are going to hold their value for awhile - it will take some time for all the 86 people out there to actually see one, realize it's on the market, and then pester their dealer about it. Plus the general car shortage, plus the Toyota badge, etc. And I also think this will hurt demand for the Supra before the year ends, so if anyone wants one of those, just hold tight.

And what about the BRZ? Since it's such an outlier in their lineup, how proud will their dealers be?

This Toyota dealership (that gave me a great deal on the Supra when others were still holding onto them dearly) is at MSRP on the GR86. In fact, they actually show a discount of their D&H fee, and then add the fee, so it really is MSRP plus tax. I respect that.

And I already contacted a Subaru dealership about 60 miles away that will order for MSRP.

So to your point on it holding its value, I still may get one as a tweener. And I’m a bit more drawn to the Subaru…it’s supposedly a little more compliant (subtle I’m sure). And the 86 has an added “duck” spoiler that the BRZ forgoes.

roadburner · January 2022

@qbrozen said:
Say what? You always scoff at anything with 0-60 greater than 4 secs, but you are tempted by one that is greater than 6 secs?

It’s actually a mid five second car. Still no ball of fire, but it is a small light car with three pedals. The plan would be owning one for 12-18 months in hopes of M2 prices returning to sanity. But you are right about the six second threshold; I would never buy a late model car slower than my wife’s X1.

rny421 · January 2022

@breld - I've actually been eyeing an X5 PHEV to replace the GLC at some point. That being said, I'd prefer white with the black grille, so if you can just order that instead - I'll be happy to buy it from you in September when you're ready to trade it in

Also - Forgot to post pictures of the M235i. It's currently in storage, so I'll take some in the spring once the snow goes away (meaning May around here)

Other than that - still like the e-tron, and the neighbors are all very interested in learning more about it as well. I definitely see us continuing to have one EV in our fleet. My wife even enjoys driving it.

oldfarmer50 · January 2022

explorerx4 said:
@oldfarmer50,
That Fusion Sport compared to a 4 Cyl Fusion(or even a 2010 V6) is like comparing your Mustang to your Sebring, performance wise.

2010 6cyl. 3.0L 240hp vs. 2018 2.7L turbo 325hp.? Certainly a faster car but if horsepower is what you’re after why not buy the Mustang to begin with?

Fusion is a family car, not a race car. 240hp is plenty. Especially for less than a third of the price.

The 85hp difference between the two Fusions isn’t close to the near 300 hp difference between the Sebring and the Mustang.

nyccarguy · January 2022

I think @stickguy asked yesterday about the status of my wife’s 4Xe Wrangler. I don’t know. The broker doesn’t know. The contact at the dealer doesn’t know. It’s being fixed by the holding lot. I couldn’t tell you if they are waiting for parts or if there is some sort of COVID related delay. I’m waiting very patiently. This is some sort of sign. I think if I take delivery this month that I get the ACQ fee waiver as well as affiliate pricing.

oldfarmer50 · January 2022

nyccarguy said:
I think @stickguy asked yesterday about the status of my wife’s 4Xe Wrangler. I don’t know. The broker doesn’t know. The contact at the dealer doesn’t know. It’s being fixed by the holding lot. I couldn’t tell you if they are waiting for parts or if there is some sort of COVID related delay. I’m waiting very patiently. This is some sort of sign. I think if I take delivery this month that I get the ACQ fee waiver as well as affiliate pricing.

Are you getting any discount for them banging it up?

explorerx4 · January 2022

@oldfarmer50,
The torque difference is huge and the last gen Fusions were pretty nice cars maybe short on rear headroom.
Those Duratec's are not very smooth, ok in an SUV but not a sedan.
My first Fusion had the 3.0-6.

stickguy · January 2022

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:
I think @stickguy asked yesterday about the status of my wife’s 4Xe Wrangler. I don’t know. The broker doesn’t know. The contact at the dealer doesn’t know. It’s being fixed by the holding lot. I couldn’t tell you if they are waiting for parts or if there is some sort of COVID related delay. I’m waiting very patiently. This is some sort of sign. I think if I take delivery this month that I get the ACQ fee waiver as well as affiliate pricing.

Are you getting any discount for them banging it up?

not having to make payments on it for a couple of months?

jmonroe1 · January 2022

@nyccarguy said:
I think @stickguy asked yesterday about the status of my wife’s 4Xe Wrangler. I don’t know. The broker doesn’t know. The contact at the dealer doesn’t know. It’s being fixed by the holding lot. I couldn’t tell you if they are waiting for parts or if there is some sort of COVID related delay. I’m waiting very patiently. This is some sort of sign. I think if I take delivery this month that I get the ACQ fee waiver as well as affiliate pricing.

If they can’t deliver the car you shouldn’t lose anything. If they try to screw you about that, unless you have a non-refundable deposit, you should walk away.

I hope I’m wrong but I wouldn’t put it past anyone (factory, dealer, holding lot etc.) involved in the car biz to play games with delivery now that they see how much some buyers with hot pants are willing to pay for a car. Like I said, I hope I’m wrong about this.

Good luck

tifighter · January 2022

breld said:

So to your point on it holding its value, I still may get one as a tweener. And I’m a bit more drawn to the Subaru…it’s supposedly a little more compliant (subtle I’m sure). And the 86 has an added “duck” spoiler that the BRZ forgoes.

roadburner said:
The plan would be owning one for 12-18 months in hopes of M2 prices returning to sanity.

This is how I think of it too - a fun one year fling until the next thing comes along. I actually like the looks of the 86 a little more (I actually like the ducktail), but a WR blue BRZ premium with a slightly more compliant ride than my old 86 would be very interesting.

oldfarmer50 · January 2022

explorerx4 said:
@oldfarmer50,
The torque difference is huge and the last gen Fusions were pretty nice cars maybe short on rear headroom.
Those Duratec's are not very smooth, ok in an SUV but not a sedan.
My first Fusion had the 3.0-6.

Yeah, a turbo would but both of my son’s cars had the 3.0L and I thought they were smooth enough. 221ft lbs vs 380ft lbs is a significant difference but do you need that in a Fusion?

I drive a lot of Fusions in the rental fleet and liked them enough to buy the 2010. I like the ergonomics of the 2010-12 better than the newer ones because of the A pillar slope.

It all depends on what you’re looking to get out of the car I suppose. He uses his for Uber where great acceleration would be a negative.

You got me thinking about Fusion prices and I recall seeing a new 2019 SE at a dealer a few years back selling for $20k, the same as that misprinted 2018.My, how times have changed.

stickguy · January 2022

if I bought one it would be to keep and baby until I was too danged old to get in and out of it. THough at my advanced age, that might not be all that far from now!

stickguy · January 2022

fired up the Maverick for the first time since early this week (Tuesday). It really does drive surprisingly well. Quiet, smooth, and nice steering and handling. amazingly not truckish for something with a legit PU bed (though on the shorter side) and a serious payload. I was expecting great practicality at a low price, so getting enjoyable to drive was a nice bonus!

even saw the lights in action for the first time. Seemed fine. low and high beams. Another plus.

I really think these are going to continue to be hot sellers. so probably good for me that it is going to be a while before they come close to production catching up to demand!

explorerx4 · January 2022

@oldfarmer50,
Need? Huh? Want, more like it.

corvette · January 2022

@roadburner - I remember the 1994 blizzard, but I was a young pup at the time. My parents lived out in the country and our house didn't have natural gas or propane. When the power went out (for several days), we had a fireplace in the basement, plus a kerosene heater in my parents' bedroom. Our landline still worked. I had one of those battery powered "pocket" TVs, which we used sparingly because it would burn through a set of batteries fairly quickly. I think we mostly listened to a battery powered radio and read books. I also remember putting 2L soda bottles in the snow out on the deck, because we knew not to open the refrigerator unless absolutely necessary. Once the roads became clear enough to chance it, my dad ventured out to the nearest convenience store, about seven miles away, which had a short-order kitchen, in his Honda CR-X. He came back an eternity later (the roads were still not in great condition) with kerosene, other supplies, and hamburgers which were by then cold as well as fries which were by then soggy.. nonetheless, that may be the best meal I've ever had. Our power came back on shortly thereafter.

My parents since moved to the county seat, and I moved to the "big city." Our respective houses are both at far lower risk of an extended power outage, but we both have small generators and bypass switches for the gas furnaces, which should make maintaining heat during a power outage a relatively minor inconvenience. I think a larger generator and bypass circuit breaker would be overkill, but I do have enough extension cords to keep the internet connection and my fridge going at the same time, and could temporarily disconnect everything to run the microwave or toaster oven to heat up a meal.

roadburner · January 2022

corvette said:
@roadburner - I remember the 1994 blizzard, but I was a young pup at the time. My parents lived out in the country and our house didn't have natural gas or propane. When the power went out (for several days), we had a fireplace in the basement, plus a kerosene heater in my parents' bedroom. Our landline still worked. I had one of those battery powered "pocket" TVs, which we used sparingly because it would burn through a set of batteries fairly quickly. I think we mostly listened to a battery powered radio and read books. I also remember putting 2L soda bottles in the snow out on the deck, because we knew not to open the refrigerator unless absolutely necessary. Once the roads became clear enough to chance it, my dad ventured out to the nearest convenience store, about seven miles away, which had a short-order kitchen, in his Honda CR-X. He came back an eternity later (the roads were still not in great condition) with kerosene, other supplies, and hamburgers which were by then cold as well as fries which were by then soggy.. nonetheless, that may be the best meal I've ever had. Our power came back on shortly thereafter.

My parents since moved to the county seat, and I moved to the "big city." Our respective houses are both at far lower risk of an extended power outage, but we both have small generators and bypass switches for the gas furnaces, which should make maintaining heat during a power outage a relatively minor inconvenience. I think a larger generator and bypass circuit breaker would be overkill, but I do have enough extension cords to keep the internet connection and my fridge going at the same time, and could temporarily disconnect everything to run the microwave or toaster oven to heat up a meal.

We only lost power the morning the temperature bottomed out at -22F. It was out for around six hours and we just kept the fireplace insert going- which maintained the family room temperature at a bit above 50F.

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