I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

tjc78 · February 2023

They have a shock with a mounting plate behind that mounts to a frame in the bumper. Also have bolts below you can’t see.

uplanderguy · February 2023

I'll take tjc's word for it. I really don't recall. My parents bought an '80 Monte Carlo followed by an '84, and I bought an '81 Monte Carlo followed by an '82. All had color-keyed soft bumpers.

uplanderguy · February 2023

Well, my friend with the Riv bought the '64 Impala SS. The SS trim does clean up the side trim of the regular Impala nicely. 327, 4-speed, factory tach which works, Positraction, and no power steering or power brakes! A nice, original, honest car. Maybe he'll have it at Hershey, andre.

I like the '65 better, but appreciate a nice original/authentic car.

andre1969 · February 2023

Cool...is he hanging onto the Riv? That was a nice car!

fintail · February 2023

I hope Impala guy isn't a parallel parking enthusiast!

I am one of the weirdos who has always kind of liked the 64.

andre1969 · February 2023

My only beef with the '64 Impala...or rather the '62-64 in general, is that they just seem too common. Call it a victim of their own success, I guess. I actually like the '62 alot. If I was to have to pick between a '63-64, I dunno...they're both close enough in my opinion, that it would probably just depend on what kind of mood I'm in at the moment.

I wonder how bad something like that '64 would be with no power steering? I've driven enough cars with failed power steering, but that's a whole different beast. I actually drove my old '68 Dart with failed power steering for something like 30-40,000 miles. It was a good workout. One of my friends used it to take his driver's test. First time he went out, he screwed up really early in the course, so the cop riding with him made him switch seats, and the cop drove it the rest of the way through the course. My friend said the cop was griping about my car the whole way through! The second time he took the test, he passed, but the parallel parking test was a real workout!

The last time I had power steering go bad, it was in my '79 5th Avenue. Being a heavier car, and with bigger tires, it was a lot harder to maneuver than the Dart in tight spaces/low speeds, although in most normal driving you barely noticed it. Still, I got that one fixed right away, because I was worried it might do further damage to other parts of the steering.

fintail · February 2023

I know I have mentioned it before, the 68 Fairlane my dad had in the 90s was a manual steering/manual brakes car. Coupled with a 3 on the tree, it was not fun for a new driver. I think the steering was fine once on the move, but in tight parking, a workout. Combine that with a clutch that wasn't exactly Honda-like in in precision, and I had my fill pretty quickly.

One thing I recall about that car, its final run 289 was a sweet engine, and I don't remember there being any mechanical issues with that car. My dad was fond of it, as it was so simple.

I think my 64 Impala like goes back to when I was a freshman in HS, and a senior had a pristine (to my eyes anyway) black 64 non-SS 2 door HT with red interior, on Magnum 500 style wheels. I thought that was an extremely attractive combination. I remember he sold it, and wanted 3K for it.

ab348 · February 2023

andre1969 said:
On the subject of exposed bumper bolts, what did GM do, to get rid of them for the downsized cars? My old 1980 Malibu had totally bare bumpers...no guards or rub strips or anything else that could hide anything. But I don't remember it having any exposed bolts.

I know on my '78 Delta 88 the bumpers were multi-piece. The chromed parts you could see were bolted to a metal beam behind them which in turn was bolted to impact-absorbing shock absorber-type gizmos attached to the car frame. I know the chromed piece was bolted to the beam through a lower flange using a dozen or so short bolts. I don't recall if there was something else too but I remember separating the chrome part from the beam by removing lots of those bolts.

sda · February 2023

My 62 Galaxie had manual steering, brakes, column shift 3 speed. If you were barely moving the steering wasn't overly heavy and it lightened up quite a bit once underway. I think it was like 6 rotations lock to lock, lol. The brakes were not bad and took a moderate force but it liked to pull to the left or right if they were out of adjustment, which was always. I found the biggest challenge until I learned to double clutch, as it had a non synchronized 1st gear, was shifting the car back into 1st if the car was moving. The 292 V8 was nothing to brag about.

uplanderguy · February 2023

He’s keeping the Riv. The ‘64 had 68k miles and has some needs like bushings and gaskets in front and the steering box is a bit sloppy but he said the steering and interior are better than the Riv was with similar mileage. The interior is vinyl vs. leather as in the Riv which probably explains that. His 327 is the 300 hp version.

sda · February 2023

Turning into a neighborhood a very nice dark metallic blue 86 Buick Riviera.

stickguy · February 2023

on the back of a flatbed yesterday on the highway, a nice red late 70's Camaro.

uplanderguy · February 2023

Some pics of my friend's new '64:

I always dislike when there's not enough room in the basic dash design to put a tach so it's an add-on thing. Desirable option though.

I really have never wanted a Chevy (or really, a Big Three car) enough to actually pony up the money for one, as a collector car. I would, or in the past would have, for a '65-69 Corvair coupe or a '77 Caprice Classic coupe with 350 and F-41 in original/authentic shape, or a '78 Malibu Classic coupe with 305 and F-41 in original/authentic shape. I wouldn't buy a Corvair now for the specified mechanical know-how guys being few and far between, but I might consider one of those two later Chevys, but I think finding what I'd want is pretty hard at this point.

uplanderguy · February 2023

I am one of the weirdos who has always kind of liked the 64.

I think this group overall is not a real mainstream group but out in the public, a whole lot of people like and want the '62-64 Impalas. I like each year less than the previous.

A friend who wrenched from the early teen years always says that in his opinion, both the 1963-64 big Fords and big Chevys hit their peak of quality and reliability.

RE.: No power steering and brakes--my current '66 Studebaker Cruiser has neither and I rather feel that's something else less to go wrong. My '63 had power steering go bad (hoses) which a friend did in my garage and said it was a real PITA. The thing about no power steering is to just keep the car moving a little bit, LOL. I actually kind-of like the no power brakes.

andre1969 · February 2023

Sometimes I like to play a little game of "what would I buy" for a certain year/class of car, although honestly it's probably not that realistic, since I'm looking back at these cars with rose-tinted glasses, and will often base them more on styling I like, rather than the merits of the car. For instance, as much as I love my '57 DeSoto, I wonder if, I had been a new car buyer back then, if I had bought one and it had been a total turd, would it have turned me off to Mopar forever?

Looking back at the '62-64 low priced big cars, for '62 I like the Chevy, for '63 the Ford, and for '64 it's sort of a tossup between the two.

Also, as I get older, and more irritated when something breaks on one of my more obscure cars, sometimes it'll make me wish my tastes ran towards the more mainstream, popular cars where you can practically rebuild them from parts catalogs.

uplanderguy · February 2023

I always say if I could go back, I'd buy a new '63 or '64 Studebaker Daytona or Cruiser, all loaded up with the performance goodies and optional seat configurations. My Studebaker friend, who's 73, says, "You say that, but back then you wouldn't. Lots of other orphans by that time that everybody remembered....you'd have voted with your pocketbook by buying a Chevy, a sure thing at the time". He may well be right.

My one Stude friend is 83 and he did in fact buy a new '60 Lark VIII convertible. Most other Stude guys I know who are older than me (and most are), got into them as cheap used cars that they found they liked and were mechanically durable and parts plentiful and cheap.

I've mentioned this before, but a friend of my Dad's had a '64 Chevelle two-door wagon with 230 six, and a red '60 Lark VIII 4-door sedan. As probably a ten or eleven year old, I remember kidding him about having a Studebaker then. I plainly remember him saying, "That Lark will run rings around that Chevy".

My 83-year old Stude friend used to buy parts at South Bend from Studebaker who continued to run the Parts Depot there (and others around the country), into 1972. He says one time he went there and was behind an old farmer in bib overalls. He got talking to the guy who was buying parts for his Stude pickup. My friend was a Stude hobbyist by then, but the farmer just wanted to fix his farm truck.

xwesx · February 2023

sda said:
My 62 Galaxie had manual steering, brakes, column shift 3 speed. If you were barely moving the steering wasn't overly heavy and it lightened up quite a bit once underway. I think it was like 6 rotations lock to lock, lol. The brakes were not bad and took a moderate force but it liked to pull to the left or right if they were out of adjustment, which was always. I found the biggest challenge until I learned to double clutch, as it had a non synchronized 1st gear, was shifting the car back into 1st if the car was moving. The 292 V8 was nothing to brag about.

That's definitely my experience with the Econoline. Even if it is barely moving, the steering is no big deal, and it feels quite light at speed. However, the rotations are insane. I don't know that I've ever counted them, but six sounds about right.

I cannot tell you how pleased I was with the disc brake conversion I did on the front end a few years ago. It always pulled hard to the left, no matter how much I adjusted the shoes, so I would need to keep that in mind and simply auto-corrected to the right when I had to slow down quickly. Now, I can brake from sixty to a stop without even touching the steering wheel, and it simply stays in a straight line (or nearly so).

stickguy · February 2023

I had a whole bunch of manual steering cars back in my youth. Domestics (Duster, Camaro, not sure about my AMCs) and foreign (Corolla, Manta, even my 1st new car (1985 Colt GTS). Even learned to drive on a manual steering and brake Volvo 144.

All were fine, since they were designed that way. More turns lock to lock of course, and it could take a little more effort, but nothing bothersome in a parking lot (and not at all noticeable at speed). Actually, the hardest one to crank to park was the Volvo. My sister and Mother did not like that one! But you got great road feel!

Much different story on a PS car where the PS is out. that was absurdly hard to steer.

kyfdx · February 2023

The first FWD car that had manual steering was a shock. My ‘82 Accord required two hands in tight parking lots.

fintail · February 2023

I think the 66 Galaxie I drove when a new driver had steering so light you could maneuver with your pinkie. IIRC the 60 had power steering and manual brakes. Fintail has PS and PB, the steering has enough resistance to give it some "feel"

roadburner · February 2023

The Bronco I inherited had power steering but the overall gearing was unchanged- over 4 turns lock to lock. If the rear end stepped out you had to really act quick to keep from losing it.

xwesx · February 2023

fintail said:
I think the 66 Galaxie I drove when a new driver had steering so light you could maneuver with your pinkie. IIRC the 60 had power steering and manual brakes. Fintail has PS and PB, the steering has enough resistance to give it some "feel"

Same is true on my '69 C20. That thing is so over-boosted that I can steer it with my mind.

ab348 · February 2023

About a year and a half since it departed, I finally heard from the new owner of my Cutlass over in Germany. Short story: he loves it and is very happy. He was nice enough to send along a few pics, and I'm glad he hasn't changed much other than the license plates:

stickguy · February 2023

odd thing to use as an off road farm truck.

kyfdx · February 2023

Great pics!

explorerx4 · February 2023

@ab348,
Seems like the Cutlass found a great home.

fintail · February 2023

Notice the "H" suffix, "historic" plate (as Germany doesn't have a YOM program).

ab348 · February 2023

fintail said:
Notice the "H" suffix, "historic" plate (as Germany doesn't have a YOM program).

I wondered if the "1968" was a special request by the owner or if it was a model year reference by the licensing authority on all such cars.

andre1969 · February 2023

Nice pics of that Cutlass! And it's hard to believe it's been a year and a half already since you sold it!

fintail · February 2023

ab348 said:

fintail said:
Notice the "H" suffix, "historic" plate (as Germany doesn't have a YOM program).
I wondered if the "1968" was a special request by the owner or if it was a model year reference by the licensing authority on all such cars.

I think recently there, Germans have been able to choose combinations from available letters/numbers, so it might be kind of semi-personalized. SO is the city code, and the rest is the serialized part. I suspect if something with "1968" was available, it was able to be chosen. Germany doesn't have a year-related plate component.

ab348 · February 2023

This creampuff 1991 Cadillac Brougham, last of the square-rigger land yachts, just went for over $28K on BaT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-cadillac-brougham-6/

Somewhere, @lemko1968 must be feeling pretty good about his, which I like better than this one anyway. Not a fan of the colors and wheels on the '91 here, though I know others may be.

tjc78 · February 2023

I actually like the color on the Caddy. The wheels however, don’t do it for me. Shame it doesn’t have the 350.

I think 92 was the last year for these because the redesign came in 93 when the name changed back to Fleetwood.

explorerx4 · February 2023

Specialty Motor Cars has Cadi's like that for sale for a lot less money every so often.

andre1969 · February 2023

That Caddy is nice, but yeah, I'm not so crazy about the wheels/tires. I'm not a huge fan of wire wheels/hubcaps in general, but I think these Broughams actually look good with just the regular wire hubcap. They're fairly flush with the edge of the rim, so they don't stick out and look so tacked on, like a lot of them do.

Here's a '92 that's sporting them. I think just a regular whitewall looks nice, too, rather than that wide whitewall that has a bit of a '50's look to it, with the thin gold ring added on for extra bling.

I don't think Cadillac ever offered any kind of alloy wheel with these cars, did they? I think it was usually a regular hubcap, wire hubcap, or wire wheels.

fintail · February 2023

A Fleetwood Brougham is one of the few relatively modern cars that can pull off real wire wheels and not look out of place.

tjc78 · February 2023

@fintail said:
A Fleetwood Brougham is one of the few relatively modern cars that can pull off real wire wheels and not look out of place.

Probably the last sedan made. An 89 Town Car can pull it off. They were a factory option too. 90+ TC certainly can’t do it.

The 90-92 Brougham is a nice vehicle, but in all reality the 91-92 Town Car has it all over it in terms of technology. I excluded the 90 Town Car since it still had the 5.0 which had less power than either of Caddy’s options. 91-92 with dual exhaust got more power than even the 350 which was an option.

andre1969 · February 2023

I think those older, boxier Town Cars look best with those turbine style wheels, although it can still pull off a wire wheel with some class.

I think my problem with the 90-92 Cadillac Brougham, style-wise, is that they felt they had to do something to update the style, but I think the '80-89 style was about as good as these cars got. Not to say the styling is perfect, as that's always in the eye of the beholder. But, I just don't think it could really be improved upon.

So, Cadillac was left with the choice of keeping the car the same, but making it look really no different from a 10 year old model. Or doing some updates, that might not make the car look quite as good as the previous years, but at least lets you know that it's new.

tjc78 · February 2023

Agreed. Box Town Cars (and Vics/GMs) look their best with Turbines.

The TCs also have another wheel called a lacy spoke that is nice looking.

tjc78 · February 2023

Fun fact while the center cap looks the same as a turbine… but it’s not. Ask me how I know lol

uplanderguy · February 2023

I don't like the '90-92 styling revisions....the side trim, two-toning, or the filled-in rear-door quarter window.

The '84-89 styling is right-on IMHO; too bad a 350 wasn't available.

I'm wondering now what the final year of the RWD Fleetwood coupe was. I'm thinking '85 as after that point the sedan became known just as 'Brougham' and I don't think the coupe ever got that treatment.

uplanderguy · February 2023

RE.: Early '90's Town Cars--I used to get them somewhat regularly as rentals from Budget when I travelled with work. I like that styling, probably my favorite of all Town Cars, especially when they got rid of the vertical break in the rear doors. I don't remember being wowed by the interiors or such, but for the most part I still liked the old high-bling Fleetwood interiors (never drove or even rode in one though).

Only Town Car negative I can think of is I had one in the hills of Kentucky once and I remember warped rotors, but that was probably caused by overzealous half-a**** servicing.

tjc78 · February 2023

Early 90s TCs had to be Signature or Cartier spec. The base model seats weren’t great. 95+ the base seats were much better.

My Grandfather had a 93 Cartier. Those were comfy seats.

uplanderguy · February 2023

When the '93 Fleetwood came out, I thought, "Well, that really does look like a Cadillac", but it didn't take me long to think it just looked bloated. I felt the same way about the Roadmaster sedan. The Caprice looked bloated, but I think the Buick and Cadillac were styled to accentuate that.

I always thought the name 'Roadmaster' was corny by then too--I always wished they'd have dusted off the Electra nameplate.

sda · February 2023

tjc78 said:
Early 90s TCs had to be Signature or Cartier spec. The base model seats weren’t great. 95+ the base seats were much better.

My Grandfather had a 93 Cartier. Those were comfy seats.

That interior really looks comfortable with supple leather and high quality interior surfaces, plush carpet. Too bad newer models interior quality was not as nice but still comfortable.

andre1969 · February 2023

Last year for the Fleetwood Brougham coupe was 1985, and they built 3,000 of them.

andre1969 · February 2023

I think the Ford Panthers definitely took to the aero look better than GM's full-sized cars. Although, I still wouldn't mind an LT-1 Caprice, Roadmaster, or Fleetwood. I'd even tolerate one of the earlier 350 TBI models.

One thing, I think, that contributes to GM's cars looking bloated is, to my eye at least, it seems like there's too much taper in the front and back. That makes the midsections look even chunkier. That skirted look most of them had didn't help matters, either. But, I think they also had all sorts of other proportioning issues, too many shapes, lines, etc that didn't flow well together, and other issues.

Even though the term didn't get thrown around until Chrysler started using it, the aero Caprice/Roadmaster/Fleetwood were a bit "cab forward" in the sense that the windshield actually extended a bit over the engine compartment. That made the front of the car look too stubby. The beltline was also really low, which gave you large windows, but it also made the styling seem "off" to me. On the Roadmaster especially, the overall effect made the car look shorter and taller than it really was. Also, thanks to all that window area and not enough door for it to roll down into, I think the Caprice's back windows only went down about 1/3 of the way.

Ford's big cars just seemed better proportioned, in general, when they went aero. The one exception, to me, is the Town Car from 1998-2002. The rear end had sort of a "melted" look to me, and up front, the tiny grille seemed at odds with the oversized headlight assemblies.

fintail · February 2023

The late run Fleetwoods with composite lights looked off to me, the flush lights being too modern for the rest of the design. The 80s ones were the most cohesive. There's a later box Fleetwood sitting under a tree on my jogging route, obviously parked there for a long time, surprised nobody has claimed it.

I remember when the 93 was new, along with the aero large GMs already in production, I thought it was way too "whale" like, but I am fine with it now. Time can cure the shock of a design. Those cars now make me think of Morty Seinfeld.

For TC wheels, while an 80s car can pull off wires and a 90s one looks like a lowrider custom with then, turbines are definitely superior in my eyes. I recall when I was pretty fresh out of school at my first employer after graduating, my manager had a silver blue 95-97 TC, light grey leather, seemed like a very pretty color combo and a nice car.

tjc78 · February 2023

@andre1969
The 98-02 Town is generally unloved except for the Signature Touring models which were actually the best handling and quickest TC ever made. Pop replaced his 93 with one. That was a nice ride too

tjc78 · February 2023

@sda said:
That interior really looks comfortable with supple leather and high quality interior surfaces, plush carpet. Too bad newer models interior quality was not as nice but still comfortable.

It really was. High point of any Panther is really up to 94. 95-97 wasn’t bad but 98+ the cost cutting showed.

uplanderguy · February 2023

With all these years' hindsight, I think I prefer the '91 Caprice to the later ones with the bigger-radiused wheel openings. I typically hate droopy rear wheel openings, but I owned a '93--if you looked close at how they opened it up and trimmed it, they really did it on the cheap.

I like the gloss black around the side windows on the '91. I liked the leather seating and lacey aluminum wheels (although both those ran the entire length of the run).

Ford is proportioned better, but again, never liked the two vent windows so-to-speak up against each other. I know the Merc didn't have that issue. Both the Chevy and Ford were large, aero RWD cars aiming at the identical customer base. I don't think one's a pig and the other is an absolute siren, though.

If someone said they were giving me a Caprice of that era, it'd have to be a maroon '91 Classic with red leather inside, F-41, and those Eagle tires with the pinstripe whitewalls and those lacey aluminum wheels.

The styling of those Chevys looking straight-on from the rear was no good the whole run, IMHO.

I can remember seeing one on I-71 in Ohio a few days after Christmas 1989. I had no idea what it was until I came up on it. It had a company name on the door, that I remember.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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