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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They've got a lot of cool stuff on the shelf. I think that manual adjustment would be well suited to the Baja and Forester.

    That and a low range, and noone will be saying you can't take Subies off road.

    It's funny how the models in Japan lack the cross bars and the offroad image the US models project, yet they offer the low range in Japan and not here. It's counter-intuitive.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Keep in mind, it's only a 20% (1.2:1) gear reduction, which is hardly any reduction at all. To give some perspective: A Jeep has a 2.72:1 gear reduction (the Wrangler Rubicon has a 4.0:1 reduction!). I believe my Explorer is around 2.4:1. I think the Trooper is around 2.0:1. Most off road vehicles have gear reductions of 2.0:1 or better.

    The gear reduction in the Subie will help (a little) off road, but I think it's really better suited for towing and heavy loads.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    What bob said is right. The overhangs are a much more serious issue IMHO for offroading, that along with needing some longer axles to go along with a lift :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    While that's true, Subarus weigh so much less that they don't tend to sink in as much. At least on sand.

    I don't envision them rock hopping, though. Not unless you deck yours out like Scott's BRAT.

    By the way, that's Pipercub on i-Club, Bob knows him by now.

    I guess the 4:1 reduction would be necessary if you put 35" tires on that bad boy. I don't imagine a lot of Subaru owners would do that (with one exception!).

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << By the way, that's Pipercub on i-Club, Bob knows him by now. >>

    I actually met him a couple of times. Once on the Fall Foliage Tour, and another time at a Subie meet at Patapsco State Park, near Baltimore. He's a neat guy, with one mean turbo RS 2.5!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    He actually gave me a ride in it, but only a very short one. The torque from that turbo 2.5 was amazing. It pulled immediatly, even from low rpm.

    I'm very much looking forward to a 2.5T engine, fingers crossed that we get one.

    He paid lots of sweat and tears to get it to that point, though. JC Sports gave him a real hard time about delivering all the contents of his turbo kit.

    Think about how much easier it would be to chip a factory 2.5T.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Anyone know what name/address they are operating under now? I hear they are in Colorado still but with a different name.

    A friend got burnt for $600 in the JC Sports original group buy. When we drive to CA next summer we are gonna stop by and get his $600. I'm sure they'll be amused when a dozen NY/NJ subies pull up to their offices...

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    at a recent Woodbridge meet (I think). The new name escapes me. Maybe search nasioc?
    edit: yep, do a search with "Sports new name" in the Vendors Forum. Found this good one about their web site:

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=101957&referrerid=767
    vBulletin's search is FAST!

    -Dennis
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    the search is fast because there is a full-text SQL index already built, and when you query you're using PHP code to execute a stored procedure... no wait, they have mySQL. It doesn't support stored procedures. (they say it's coming in 5.0)

    uh... but yeah, it's fast. :-D

    -Colin
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I'll just go out on a limb here nad suggest that Bob's driving style and Colin and my driving style are not the same. Hence the difference in experiences with sunroofs. :)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.subaru.co.nz/models/impreza/
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I've seen Bob pour it on @ more than 1 event :) (covered bridge, phila auto show) He can hold his own with the best of us :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob ran quicker than me at the BMW Ultimate Driving Event (though he knocked down a cone and got a 2 second deduction).

    So yeah, the geezer can drive! ;-)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I didn't hit any cones, although I was a passenger with someone who barreled through several cones. ;)

    Bob
  • luck11luck11 Member Posts: 425
    Maybe this has been pointed out already, but did anyone notice that the Isuzu Ascender looks like an oversized Forester?


    http://www.edmunds.com/future/2003/isuzu/ascender/4drsuv/photo_1.html

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The Ascendor = Envoy.

    Please don't disgrace the good Isuzu design and engineering name by calling the Ascednor an Isuzu!

    Now the 1st gen Forester IMHO looks like a mini-trooper :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh wait, that was Hutch and Mike. Each knocked down one cone, so even though both were quicker than me, my time ended up better after their deductions.

    Now *I* am geezin'. And yes, I plowed through several cones in that Benz, but that's because:

    A. the fly-by-wire throttle is not linear
    B. the fly-by-wire brakes are not linear
    C. it wasn't AWD
    D. you and I as ballast plus a heavy car

    Hint: it was D! It couldn't possibly have been my driving skill (or lack thereof!).

    I thought the 2001 Forester in particular looked a lot like an Isuzu, with the way the hood wrapped around the grille.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I hit one cone in 7 runs in the "mini-trooper" on the only auto-x I've ever done.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's hard not to, eventually. That was my 5th event, first mistake. Though ask Bob, I really plowed those cones!

    Yeah, that's it, I was testing the snow plow capabilities of the new E class.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that's the first time my waistline has ever been accused of causing excessive understeer! ;)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, it was only *half* your fault!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If I hadn't been a passenger, you would only plowed through 3 or 4 cones, instead of 6 - 8 cones, right?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Exactly, 3-4 tops! :o)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    like the (Legacy) Outback and Baja, the '04 Outback Sport will offer at least one version that it monochromatic in color, and not 2-tone.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that the "new" STi (and turbo Forester) have yet to be announced in either Australia or New Zealand.

    I'm wondering if those two countries' vehicle announcements hinge on the USA debut of the STi&#151;and, perhaps a 2.5 engine?

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    http://www.subaru.com.au/


    -Dennis

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The old STi is on sale, yes. I was referring to the new facelifted version.

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I didn't even realize that was the bug-eyed version.

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    from someone who says he works for Subaru. Even more interesting, he says the car will NOT come with a radio!


    Bob


    http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=5748&highlight=lets+clafiy+things#5748

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    about 90-95% certain the US-spec STi will have the 2.5 motor. Besides, all the rumors from so-to-speak people "in-the-know," there are other rather odd world-wide Subie circumstances, such as:

    &#149; Australia just got the 2.5 Forester, but no turbo&#151;yet. They also just got the new facelifted Impreza&#151;except the STi version. I bet the Oz-spec (2.5) STi and the Oz-spec (2.5) Forester turbo will be introduced sometime after the announcement of the US-spec STi in Detroit.

    &#149; I believe the same holds true for New Zealand models.

    &#149; Both Australia and New Zealand had Forester turbos in the past, when they had the 2.0 engine, but now that they've got 2.5 engines, the turbo has temporarily disappeared; same with the (2.0) STi. I think that this is more than just a coincidence.

    &#149; I heard a rumor, I think from Paul Hansen(?), that the next-generation Legacy will debut in Japan this spring, with the 2.5 turbo motor. I believe it will be on sale there for about a year before it comes to North America.

    This all points (IMO) to the 2.5 turbo being released, in perhaps several states of tune, this spring, or summer.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Haaa, that will never work in the US market.

    2.5T on the STi is cool, but it will kill their rally heritage thing. I mean as long as they are gonna go away from the 2.0t might as put in a 3.0H6t then. Hey more bang for your buck right?

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    2.5L turbo + no radio = N. American STi Type RA? :-D
    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << 2.5T on the STi is cool, but it will kill their rally heritage thing. I mean as long as they are gonna go away from the 2.0t might as put in a 3.0H6t then. Hey more bang for your buck right? >>

    Not if the 2.5 turbo puts out 270 - 280 HP.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    would weight slightly more than a 2.5t and take up slightly more room, but could bang out over 300hp.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    didn't see the "t" after the 3.0.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No problemo. :)

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    would hurt the future Legacy wouldn't it? That's a good reason to NOT put in an H6 in the STi and just use a hot 2.5 H4, IMO. ;-)

    -Brian
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    mike, subaru has no powertrains currently capable of surviving behind a 3.0L turbo. and if they build one, it'll increase the weight of an impreza a lot more than the 85lb difference between the EZ30 and EJ25. bigger, beefier tranny, axles, cv joints, rear end... it all would add up.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    HP is HP, no matter if it's a high powered 3.0t or a 2.5t. But I get the point.

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    If DSM is pulling the EVO out of WRC in favor of a smaller hatch, I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru does the same. This would remove the displacement restriction on the WRX STi, opening the door for a 2.5t. Hehheh, WRC Pleo STi Ver. I Anyone?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    How's a next-generation 350 HP Legacy H-6 turbo grab you? And/or a (in-house designed & Isuzu-aided) Subaru diesel? Note: The wagon no longer has the goofy stepped roof! :)


    FHI must have been reading some of my wish-list posts from the past couple of years.


    http://www.sportscartesting.com/news/subaru/id547/pg2843


    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293325


    Bob

  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I know I said a dark blue Legacy would be what I want, but, hey, I'd take that black wagon up there!


    I doubt this redesign would get introduced in Chicago, but, hey, one could hope!


    -Brian

  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    sweet subie.....YIKES...don't know what you currently drive what you do for a living or if your are married....but you sure come on like a pretty NEGATIVE person.
    People that "expect dissapointment" most always find it. This is hardly a perfect world we live in and unless you are wealthy enough to have things custom built to your specific wants...choices become a compromise.
    I for one am pretty happy with my not perfect Forester and can only hope that you can learn to deal with the choices offered.
    There is an interesting post in nasioc club Forester forum reference the turbo Forester due in early 03
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    FACTS:
    · Next-generation Subaru Legacy range
    · 4- and 6-cyl. front-engines, 4 x 4
    · 2.0-litre flat-4, 2.5-litre flat-4, 3.0-litre flat-6
    · New diesel-engine
    · Up to 3530 bhp*
    · 24,500 Euro to 46.000 Euro
    · 15.500 pounds to 29,000 pounds
    · Launch: Spring 2003

    Subie diesel
    My guess is that the new diesel will be a boxer engine, although nothing is noted, other than it will occur. I'm sure the block and head will be of cast iron, rather than aluminium, because of the ultra-high compression that diesels use, and do to the accompanying high stresses. So the engine will be much heavier than the gas engines. I'm also guessing it will be either a SOHC or DOHC, rather than OHV. Most, if not all, modern diesels from Japan use overhead cams. My guess is that it will also be turbocharged.

    I've said many times in the past that Subaru should have a diesel in their engine portfolio. With a diesel, they would have a much larger presence in Europe and other markets where diesels are so valued. That will soon be the case here too, as low-sulphur diesel fuel becomes available in the next few years.

    Displacement? If this diesel is 2.0L or smaller, it's use will be strictly for cars. However, if the engine is "over" 2.0L, it has the possibility of being used in small trucks/SUVs, if Subaru should decide to enter those markets. Nissan has a 3.0 turbo 4-cylinder diesel that it uses in their pickups in Australia, etc. Toyota has 4-cylinder turbo diesels in the 2.4L - 2.7L range for their small trucks and SUVs in other markets.

    As exciting as the H-6 turbo sounds, I think the "real" news here is that Subaru is going to be building diesels. On a worldwide basis, this diesel will have far more "bottom-line" impact for FHI, than the H-6 turbo will, IMO.

    H-6 turbo
    We knew this was going to happen, sooner or later. With this revelation, I suspect the '04 Legacy will also get the same turbo that the Baja and Forester will be getting; and that when the all-new '05 model debuts, it will be offered with both the 2.5 H-4 turbo, and the 3.0 H-6 turbo.

    Things are looking up folks! :)

    * = Up to 3530 bhp must be a typo. I'm sure they meant 350 bhp.

    Bob
  • joybelljoybell Member Posts: 275
    I've had both....a 2WD and AWD Subaru, and my on my 87 Chaser I had a lever where I could switch into 4WD (except not on dry roads). I found that I don't really need AWD, although I live in a rural area. So why do I hear that in Japan Subaru still sells 2WD vehicles, but not in North America? Is that just to be able to proclaim on North American TV ads that "all our vehicles are AWD"? What's the truth? Front wheel drive Subarus would certainly be more affordable!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    AWD, it's the one feature that sets Subaru apart from every other brand out there. Prior to going all-AWD, Subaru was on the verge of extinction. They went all-AWD, to set them apart&#151;and to survive in the marketplace. I think they've proven their switch to AWD was the correct marketing move, as Subaru now is quite successful, and getting more so each year.

    In Japan the base Impreza 1.5 is available in both FWD and AWD. In every other market, outside of Japan, Subarus are available *only* in AWD.

    Yes, for years people have gotten by without AWD, but AWD certainly makes life a whole lot easier in poor traction conditions.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Holy cow Bob, nice find! I like it lots...but 46,000 Euro = approx $46,000 US (almost 1:1 ratio). I can't imagine that will fly here. No doubt it will have to sticker for more than the H6 Outbacks, though.

    I wonder if that car is actually next-gen or a current-gen test mule for the drivetrain. I wouldn't mind the latter, actually.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Like the M3, I think the turbo H-6 will be a very limited production "halo" car for Subaru.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It doesn't have the goofy stepped roof of current Legacy wagons.

    Bob
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