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Comments
Bob
I see "NA" for the AWP too.
Maybe Bob is employing wishful thinking! Or his eyesight is geezin'! :-)
-juice
-frank P.
Were the prices accurate? Let's see if he can come up with pricing on the turbo models of the Forester and Baja soon.
-juice
-juice
Bob
-juice
Ken
-juice
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4808
Bob
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4340
-brianV
http://community.webshots.com/user/shervyn
-Dave
-Brian
I hope, with Nissan's apparent success with the CVT-equipped Murano, Subaru will at some point include CVTs in their larger vehicles too.
Bob
Check this out, from that 2nd story:
Good: introducing the fourth-generation Legacy -- its flagship model -- by this summer.
Bad: step up our cost-cutting efforts
Great: new flagship model which we are developing
Flagship as in the Big SUW, or the B11S? Hopefully both!
Does JATCO have CVT experience? Who makes the Murano's unit?
-juice
Bob
-juice
Why? The B11s is a wide platform. You can stretch it, add a raised suspension, and bang you've got a perfect SUW platform. And that 3.0 twin turbo engine will have enough grunt to tow quite a bit, maybe detuned for HP and uptuned for lower end torque and add low-range....
-mike
-juice
-mike
1992-7 1999 2001 2003 2003 2004
SVX Fleet-X WX-01 B11S Legacy STi
----------------------------------------------
182.1 181.1 188.8 188.4 184.4 173.4 Length
69.7 69.3 72.4 76.2 68.7 68.1 Width
48.4 56.3 64.2 53.9 55.7 56.7 Height
102.8 108.7 108.3 110.2 104.3 100.0 Wheelbase
59.1 ?? ?? 64.0 57.5 58.7 Front track
58.3 ?? ?? 63.4 57.3 58.5 Rear track
The B11S has a very long (by Subie standards) wheelbase too. So, Mike could be right in that it could possibly be used as a spin-off from the 7-passenger crossover.
Bob
Nice call mike.
-juice
Unless the boxer layout buys them some space up front, they'll need to go up a bit to squeeze 7 passengers in.
-brianV
Bob
-brianV
I don't even think length is the problem, it's height.
For me, a Pilot-sized 3rd seat would be fine, I'd still probably buy one.
-juice
With the tranny hump back there, it's all the more reason to not skimp on the wheelbase, though.
-brianV
-juice
Which Geneva concepts should be made? Which should be trashed?
E-mail your answers (and reasons) to:
awpoll@crain.com
Include your name, address, phone number and get it in by March 20th.
My choices:
Yes: Subie B11S
The long-awaited Neo-SVX! Build it Subaru!
No: A-Level Volga V12 coupe.
Besides the goofy name, suddenly it's 1958!
Bob
-mike
• Forester XT: It looks like the cloth seats on the XT may have more side bolstering, like the WRX seat. SOC refers to them as "sport seats." Not so with leather seat option however!? Hope we get those cloth seats!
• Forester has different roof rack cross bars than US-spec models.
• Canadian Bajas have heated seats.
http://www.subaru.ca/
Bob
My initial thought when I saw it was very positive, and that it reminded me of a Christmas Tree. Ed thought it looked like a bathroom scale. I've since read, from Subie sources, that it was inspired by the intake of a jet engine, and that Subaru has some aviation in its history. So, there is a "Subaru" link there for those who said it has nothing to do with the brand. Actually I rather like the "official" Subaru explanation. Can you imagine, upon the B11S's introduction, that a Subaru spokesman would say: "We were inspired by a Christmas Tree," or: "We were inspired by a bathroom scale?" Nope, I much prefer the official corporate line...
As to those other critics:
• The Alfa rip-off conspiracy:
Actually, the grille is 180º from that of the Alfa. Also the Alfa grille is very narrow and dagger-like, whereas the B11S's grille is much broader (wider) at the base.
• The grille needs to be more "horizontal," and less "vertical," or not so focused on the "center" of the front end:
Well, there are far more cars out there with a horizontal-theme front-end than there are ones with a vertical/center-theme front-end. So distinguishing Subaru from the masses is going to be much more difficult if it stays on it current design path. Actually, there are a lot of cars, besides Alfa and Edsel, which have followed this vertical/center-theme front-end approach, and quite successfully I might add: There's the Jaguar XK120/140/150, The Jaguar 3.8 and S-Type, BMW, and Bugatti. Also, I believe the European brand Seat also has a similar front-end theme; and to a lesser degree, Saab and Volvo too. So, it's not just a "Alfa" rip-off, but more a "European" rip-off. I don't have problem with that.
Bob
If so, that means any engine could be stroked. You guys could get that 3.3-3.5l H6 you've been asking for. If the 3.0l is rumored to get up to 240hp, imagine what a bigger H6 could do?
I will fire that e-mail to Autoweek shortly. Let's see if any of us get published again.
-juice
PS I'm being interviewed for a book about the auto industry, that would be a first for me!
-mike
I also saw an XS in the black-over-slate color combo that's very similar to my own car. Looks nice, but the brownish undertone to the new Java Black Pearl doesn't go quite as well with the slate as the reddish undertone of the Black Diamond Pearl on the 98-00 cars.
Ed
-juice
-Ian
Thing is, the info for the Forester XT and 2004 Impreza is out, but noone has driven one. There hasn't been anything new since the Geneva show a couple of weeks ago.
That plus we moved the chit-chat about other competing models over to the Cafe. This formerly popular topic doesn't have much left in it!
-juice
That same nasioc thread now also has a Forester sketch too. It's not very successful IMO.
Bob
-Brian
I like the WRX-ized fenders on the sedan, though.
The stretched wheelbase looked bad - reminded me of an Escort 5 door hatch back!
-juice
'04 Sienna: Ummm, lots of nice features inside, ugly outside. Definately a bus. The sliding doors are so large, they look like they came off the H2... If they made the bumper any taller, you'd swear it was a Dodge RAM SUV. They'll sell like hotcakes though.
Altima: Beautiful outside, strikingly chinsy inside. Extremely poor plastic moldings, fit and finish, like a Yugo. Very disappointing.
Murano, FX35/45: Kudo's for daring design. Really not my style though. The grill design on the Murano looks like a cheap prop from "Space 1999". Lose the chrome.
'04 Quest: Kudo's for daring design again, interesting features. Dash layout looks like the transporter controls on the 60's StarTrek original series. I'm not into gratuituous design statements, personally, a bit shrill. Also a bus.
Volvo V70, XC70: Nice cars, but pricey.
STi: It was there, but you could only drool over it from a distance.
Mitsu: Strange line-up. The Evo was a no show, much to the disappointment of my buddy.
Forester/Legacy: The new Forester has virtually the same rear knee room as the Outback. A lot less headroom than my '01 though.
Mazda 6: Gorgeous inside and out. A winner.
MPV: The only 'mini'-van left (DC Caravan excluded on reliability grounds). AWD and rear discs would help in the dollar value contest against the big bruisers. Go for sporty, you're the only ones who can.
Civic IMA: This would be a real second car! The trunk is so spacious, we thought they took the batteries out. 48 mpg in the city. ULEV. MSRP= $20K. Seats 5 comfortably. Looks to be a mature idea, surprisingly.
Element: Ummm, not my style. Can't get past the dumb looks, sorry. If the novelty ever wears off, don't plan on resale, despite the Honda badge...
Ody: Easily the best of the big vans. Discrete styling, plenty of room, gobs of power, refined. Still too big for me, personally, but clearly the one to beat among the big boys.
We looked at lots of other dream cars, and such, but that's all pie in the sky unless I win the lotto...
-brianV
I'm not sure if you meant that the Murano and FX share a platform, but interestingly they don't. The Murano is FWD Altima based, the FX is RWD based.
-juice
Sienna: Forgot to try the folding second row bit, sorry. The third row "magic seat" is split, which is a nice feature. Enormous 2nd row windows roll down, like the MPV. It really does have a lot of nice features, but it is HUGE, at least by my standards. Looking in the rear view mirror was like viewing this enormous cavern behind you. Sheesh. Might as well buy an Excursion...
I have to say that the industry seems to be moving away from my tastes at warp speed. One of the trends is towards higher beltlines and narrower windows, top to bottom, which can't aid visibility. Porsche Cayenne (bigger than it looks in pictures - too big to be sporty), and the Nissan Murano/FX are examples, among others.
What I experience as gratuituous styling elements seem all the rage too. The back end of the BMW 7-series has 14 different things going on at once, like the design team couldn't decide, so they did all of them. I'm just an old fashioned "form follows function" kind of guy. Most of the BMW's are so clean, it's really an anomoly. Audi's line is sweet that way. They had an RS6 there, very pretty, in a non-descript kind of way.
Ah well, "know what you like, know what you don't like..."
-brianV