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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    I have a Winnebago Rialta which has the VR6 engine (its essentially a VW eurovan powertrain/extended chassis and a winnebago body) and for something weighing close to 7000lbs, it does go!
    But nothing beats a Sube boxer!
    I just need to convince the wife we can tow the WRX behind this thing!
  • artdechoartdecho Posts: 337
    For anyone who has access to "Autocar" (a weekly British car mag), this(last?) week's issue has a couple of "less-disguised" photos of the next gen Legacy wagon testing in France (looks to be the STi version because of the hoodscoop/wheels). Rear tail lights are on the corners and vertical.
    Roofline is smooth and gently tapers to the back.
    Sides have a distinct "shoulder" line. Can't tell about the front headlights and grill appears similar to current. Unfortunately, this mag doesn't seem to have a website, so can't post any pics. Can't wait to see better pics.....May, maybe?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    have you all seen this ?
    http://www.trucktrend.com/future/spied/112_2005fvf/index1.html

    "2005 Subaru Legacy: Redesign. Hot B4 model joins line with a 2.5-liter turbo boxer four producing 260-270 horsepower."
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    SOA has applied for a "B9" trademark here in the USA. So...

    http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=782219- 45

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Now we got a written power estimate. That's pleny of go, plus the STi will have ridiculous power. Subaru is serious about the next Legacy, I just hope they keep it affordable, at least in the 20s (base).

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Posts: 1,784
    From the same article sweet_subie pointed out:

    "2005 Subaru Sport/utility wagon: Working with GM, Subaru is reported developing a seven-passenger sport/utility wagon."

    I hope the only input GM has is to help finance the job.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, we pretty much know that they're not sharing any GM parts, thankfully. They might use GM's buying might, though, to negotiate better parts prices.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Technically these aren't Future Models because they're already here, but I finally saw some street prices on the H6/cloth Outback wagons.

    Fitz has them starting at $24,266, which seems pretty reasonable. And they're new, so prices might go lower.

    For comparison, their cheapest LL Bean is $26,375, so the cloth model is a good couple grand cheaper. Their cheapest VDC is at $29 grand right now.

    $24 grand definitely hits the meat of the 6 cylinder market, so it's not just near-luxury any more.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Posts: 2,984
    http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg/03_leg.html

    in paul's words: "this is not a 'rumor' article ;-) "
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    How do you know they aren't sharing parts with GM?

    I don't think they are sharing systems with GM yet, but I'll bet that the ECUs we see in subies now, or within a year or 2 are Delco/Delphi, and I bet lots of other components will be from the GM parts bin. Not a bad thing, heck my Trooper has a Delphi ECU and no problems have come of it, my Rodeo had a Harrison radiator which is a GM company. And I wouldn't mind seeing GM have some input on the 5EAT transmissions, as GM has an excellent reputation for longitudial trannies.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    So Bob, they're still "in talks" for the Saabaru. We'll see. I don't mind the idea. Spread the costs. Economies of scale. Put the nice interior some have asked for and charge them more, let them pay for it if they want it.

    Hmm, Quite a bit lighter, 5 speed auto, +/- buttons on the three spoke steering wheel? Heaven. Dang, do we have to wait 6 years to trade in the Legacy L?

    I think Subaru has stood up nicely to its biggest shareholder. They'll be selective in what they allow in Subies, so I agree, whatever parts they do share may even provide a benefit to Subaru.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I think Saab is the right partner. I can't imagine Subaru sharing parts with any other GM platform, except perhaps GMC, in some sort of yet unannounced future large crossover/truck project. If you recall, we had a discussion a few months ago when there were rumors of a large H-8 floating around.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    we won't see a Legacy turbo for '04. Why?

    &#149; There have been absolutely no rumors, other than here and at nasioc, by mostly wishful thinkers <like me ;)>.

    &#149; There have been rumors all over about the Baja turbo.

    &#149; As much as the Legacy needs a turbo, the Baja needs it more, to jump-start sales.

    &#149; Having both a Legacy and Baja turbo introduced at the same time will dilute the intro/impact of the Baja turbo.

    &#149; The Legacy turbo is coming&#151;just 6-9 months later...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    One way or another, we'll have teaser pics of the new Legacy up tomorrow evening (ie, morning my time). Definitely related to the outgoing car with some evolutionary changes, other differences.

    Cheers,

    Paul Hansen
    www.apexjapan.com


    Bob
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Just more reason for me to 'settle' with an XT come early next year.

    I will be still anxious to see what pans out for the Legacy, especially after reading that article Loosh linked.

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Baja turbo is for real, not just a rumor. It's listed as a debut for NY.

    I really wonder how much power it'll have. Forester is getting 215hp, but the Legacy 2.5T is supposed to get 250-260.

    So, do you think the Baja will be tuned for torque, like the Forester, or for speed and power, like the Legacy?

    I say for now it'll get 215hp, to keep prices down. The launch was botched due in part to high prices.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    with all the turbos coming out......Subaru needs to position/advertise themselves nicely !

    as always, subaru marketing sucks.........hope they won't miss this opportunity.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I think the Baja turbo will ge the same engine.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    (From a nasioc poster:)

    Subaru Introduces Baja(TM) Turbo at New York International Auto Show

    What: Subaru of America, Inc., the only manufacturer to have all-wheel drive as standard equipment on every vehicle they make, will introduce the Baja(TM) Turbo at the New York International Auto Show. Baja Turbo is the third version of the brand's unique crossover vehicle that blends the versatility and ruggedness of a compact 4-door pickup truck with the driving dynamics, safety and comfort of a passenger car.

    Who: Bill Cyphers, Vice President of Sales, Subaru of America, inc. to present

    When: Thursday, April 17, 2003 -- The reveal is scheduled for 1:25 p.m. ET

    Where: Subaru Booth (level 1), Jacob K. Javits Convention center, New York, N.Y.


    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    OK, but we should see preview pics and info sooner than the official launch. Keep yours eyes peeled.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    was revealed on the Wednesday before the show, at least on http://www.media.subaru.com. So, look for stuff regarding the Baja tomorrow perhaps?

    -Brian
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    i don;t like what i am seeing. We need the legacy turbo first not baja turbo.

    legacy has a much stronger customer base than baja !
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    They need the Baja turbo to jump-start sales.

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,565
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,565
    Posted over at NASIOC.

    http://www.autoascii.jp/auto24/auto24.cgi?source=issue/2003/0409/- rjm_hk0409_99_01.html

    Looks like an evolutionary styling change.

    DaveM
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    http://www.cars.com/carsapp/autoshowny/?srv=parser&act=displa- y&tf=/features/autoshow2003/coverage/ny/show_coverage_index.t- mpl

    see the floormap......subaru's is much bigger even bigger than Nissan....

    I have a feeling this is going to be more than Baja Turbo
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Subaru had similar space at the Chicago show and just showed the XT there. Lots of spacing between cars, etc.

    -Brian
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    http://www.cars.com/carsapp/autoshowny/?srv=parser&act=displa- y&tf=/features/autoshow2003/coverage/ny/show_coverage_index.t- mpl

    see the floormap......subaru's is much bigger even bigger than Nissan....

    I have a feeling this is going to be more than Baja Turbo
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/lineup/lineup_equipment.html

    see this..........how come in U.S, subaru does not offer nav system,.......i don;t need that onstar bs
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    sweet_subie: Never mind that, look at this:

    http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/lineup/lineup_crosssports.html

    THERE'S the Shiftronic AT in a Forester! Why not us, SoA, why not us? >:(

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You gotta admit, that 9-2 looks sharp. I bet it would be a hit.

    That Legacy looks at least a little photo-chopped. The rear looks kinda squared off, like the Ford Focus wagon. I like that - I bet cargo space is great if that pic is real.

    -juice
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,565
    hot off the press from Paul Hansen.

    http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg/03_leg_photo.html

    NICE! :-) Looks like an A6 from the rear.

    DaveM
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,565
    Posted at NASIOC:

    NEW YORK - Continuing with its biggest ever product offensive, Saab Automobile AB expands its product line further with the introduction of the new Saab 9-2. The 9-2 will be Saab's entry offer and will help attract new, younger customers to the brand. It is targeted at customers looking for a distinctive, fun-to-drive car with the versatility to support an active lifestyle. As customers would expect from Saab, the 9-2 will feature excellent driving dynamics with its sophisticated all-wheel drive system and turbo performance as well as great versatility with its hatchback body style.

    Leveraging the global resources of the GM Group, Saab Automobile AB is collaborating with Fuji of Japan to create the new Saab 9-2 model in cooperation with Subaru, Fuji's automotive division.

    "We see an emerging segment in the United States for a premium, small car below the Saab 9-3 Sport Sedan," says Peter Augustsson, President and CEO of Saab Automobile AB.

    "The Saab 9-2 is a result of collaboration between two like-minded brands. We both have a special aircraft heritage and a successful history in rallying, and our cars are known as dynamic, safe and fun-to-drive. It makes a lot of sense for us to combine our strengths in creating the next Saab and bring it to the market quickly," says Augustsson.

    Saab will offer two versions of the new 9-2, both five-door, all-wheel drive cars. The base Saab 9-2 will be equipped with a 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine, while the Aero version will feature a high performance, 2.0-liter, turbocharged four-cylinder engine.

    Initially, the vehicle will only be offered in the United States and Canadian markets.

    "Both brands have this special flair," said Bob Lutz, GM's Vice Chairman for Product Development. "It is such a natural fit for them to combine their talents and expertise to bring the first all-wheel-drive performance car into the Saab family - a car with great dynamic qualities and exhilarating
    performance."

    The new Saab 9-2 will be produced in Fuji's facilities in Japan, beginning in the spring of 2004.

    Saab Automobile AB, based in Trollhattan, Sweden, is fully owned by GM, which has a 20 percent stake in Fuji.

    DaveM
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    2.5L n/a and 2.0L turbo... yep, it's a reskinned WRX wagon!

    -Colin
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    That Japanese car magazine cover is interesting. While the photo of the Legacy shows an evolutionary change, the headline over the photo mentions a shocking radical evolutionary change.

    The Saab 9-2 looks interesting. If it drives like a WRX but offers more creature comforts, it would interest a lot of folks -- including myself. I wonder what the price will be.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The second blurred image from the top right suggests a radically different front end; much boxier, and almost Forester-like. Could this be the Outback/Lancaster front end? Could the Legacy and Outback be diverging somewhat from one another this go round?

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I like the 9-2 already!

    The legacy looks like it's going back to the 1st and 2nd gen legacy's more boxier look rather than the super rounded ones in the 3rd gen.

    Good stuff!

    -mike

    PS: All cars in japan have navigation systems as options, even low end cars like the corolla/echo/etc. Just a different kind of marketing over there.
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,565
    Bob - If you're referring to the apex japan images, the 2nd one is the back, not the front. Notice the mirror on the back left of the pic.

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    That large license plate shroud threw me for a moment. It looked like a grille.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    i like the fact that they removed the red bar-like in the rear....which i is way outdated.....

    the 3rd pic looks to me as Outback.....anyone ?
    so, are we going to see OB turbo...or may be i am just dreaming.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    these are Japanese-spec models. So, even if their Lancaster gets a turbo, that doesn't mean we will. Then again... ;)

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,565
    for an Outback turbo.

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    gets a power goose (as is predicted), I can see the Forester XT engine as being a middle engine for the Outback; bracketed by the base H-4 at the bottom, and the (new & improved) H-6, at the top.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    ...in not liking the Saab 9-2. Not so much for its looks, creature comforts etc. but for what it represents. GM, no longer capable of producing vehicles with "special flair," buys smaller companies that can and forces them to play nice, all the while throwing out corporate double-speak like "such a natural fit."

    I guess I'm in a very anti-corporate-America mood today.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I think it's more a dose of reality. We know Subaru has to share something with GM. I think the linkage with Saab is the best of a bad situation.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Scroll down to Glenn Wallace's post. My guess is, those who have been disappointed in the WRX wagon lacking the AWP (and then some...), will find it on the Saab 9-2 wagon.

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34- 6242

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Why should I have to pay Saab prices - for the car, parts and service - for something I could get at a Subaru dealer, particularly a Subaru dealer in Canada? I don't want leather, shiny chrome interior bits, or other psuedo-luxury doodads that have little to do with the overall build quality of the vehicle. Heck, I don't even care about a moonroof.

    Okay, if FHI has to share with GM, share the AWD technology. I don't associate water-cooled flat fours with Saab, and I don't think many other people do either.

    Oh, and maybe GM could use its muscle to get Getrag trannies for the Subarus?

    Ed
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