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Comments
BTW, I never saw the SVX as a luxury car. Do you?
Not to mention it has every "luxury" feature you can think of in '92.
-mike
Ed
Hey Lutz, Subies are AWD wagons with boxer engines. We'll accept nothing less!
I do agree that all Saabs should have turbos. I don't get the reason for a 2.5l 9-2 at all.
-juice
Where's a larger SUV? Something based on a modified Legacy chassis would do very well with the H6 standard.
Where's the 5-speed automatic?
Where's the H6 in the Legacy GT?
People have been hammering these points on forums for years now, and what does Subaru give us? The Baja.
The WRX was a great move in the US market, but sales actually went down in markets where the WRX had been on sale already.
C'mon Subaru, put that Outback cash to use...
-B
* 8.4" clearance (vs. 7.3" non-turbo)
* 235 lb-ft at just 3600rpm
* VTD AWD!
I hope the price doesn't sky-rocket. VTD has made every model that has it very expensive.
-juice
-juice
-mike
-mike
DaveM
VTD is $200. Active AWD is $800, VTD is $1000 including the AT transmission of course. Prices are MSRP.
DaveM
click on baja to see more
DaveM
The Impreza's wheelbase is just 0.5" longer than the Jetta. There's no real room to shrink it.
Hey - the Baja is still two-tone, it's just a black/slate, so there is much less contrast. Much better, IMO.
-juice
Korean companies appear to be the only ones offering something along the lines of a Justy-sized vehicle nowadays.
While we're at it, does anybody else think a hybrid Subaru/Saab drivetrain would fit perfectly for both Subaru and Saab? I'm sure it has been said before, just like many of our other comments.
All wheels could be put to use for regenerative braking, Subaru's borderline CAFE requirements would be taken care of easily (especially if a light pressure 2.0L turbo was used. Low-end torque problem solved!), and the idea of a hybrid works perfectly with the image for Subaru and Saab. C'mon GM, use what you learned with the 1 billion EVI program and get crackin'!!!!
-B
Golf/Jetta is next from 2770-2900.
Everything else is 2500-2700 pounds.
Cars also have more safety features and luxury items versus the lighter cars of the past, there's some more weight versus size right there. And those more powerful motors need stronger and heavier drivetrain components.
As for actual size, the rear seat of the Impreza is already tight, I don't see them going smaller and still offer reasonable accomodations, unless they do a tall wagon/SUV treatment and have it complete against the Scion. A more extreme Forester perhaps.
Hmm, a two seat, AWD, all-season convertible anybody? have it based on a shortened Impreza chassis, use the WRX underpinnings and have it complete against the Miata and MR2 for about the same price, but with more performance and the security of AWD for a true all season convertible. Saab could even sell a verion to complete against the Audi TT!
-B
OK, here they are:
$28580+$550 is invoice.
$30995+$550 is MSRP
DaveM
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3726- 422
Ken
Not that I mind, they are performance vehicles.
- D.
Just make it lighter, do the things they did with the Forester (aluminum hood and roof rails, for starters).
$30.5k plus a $5000 markup... ;-)
I was still (irrationally) hoping for 87 octane. The same engine can make 300hp, so this is "detuned".
-juice
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30- 6499&perpage=25&highlight=Forester&pagenumber=3
Quoting myself in part:
"I cross-shopped the A4 Avant (not the S4) with the Legacy GT wagon and the Forester S. Briefly considered Volvo V70 (not XC). Did not consider any Saab. I went with Subaru's better reputation for reliability and long-term maintenance costs cf. Audi's. I went with the Forester over the Leg GT due to better power-to-weight ratio and what I felt was more nimble handling, even with the higher CG and more body lean. A larger rear sway bar and performance rubber has helped some. I like the ride height, won't lift it; it could be 1-2" lower but I wouldn't slam it either. I drool over the STi and Cross Sports Foresters, but I don't like the skirts, lips and junk hanging off the bottom. I do take my car onto gravel and mud and have no desire for the lower-body add-ons save mudflaps...
"I am really looking forward to seeing and driving the Forester turbo. I don't want to waste my time speculating about its drivetrain. I want to drive one back-to-back with a WRX wagon and then make the choice of my next Subaru."
Ed
this is a complete non-issue in overall Total Cost of Ownership, folks.
-Colin
DaveM
Since we're getting ~28 mpg in the city and don't drive that far per year (~12k mi), the difference in $'s is trivial (about $42 per 10 cent of price difference per year, or $3.50 per month). Heck, that's not even pizza money...
-brianV
'04 Baja Turbo 5 spd - looks nice in black w/ dark grey cladding. Had leather and heated seats; no heated mirrors or wiper deicer. Mini brochure says AT model has VTD with SPORTSHIFT (no mention of "direct control".
'04 Baja Sport - medium grey with it appears to be a darker shade of the '03's silver cladding. Actually looked pretty good in that color combo.
'04 Forester Turbo 5spd. w/ moonroof & leather - nice metallic black (Java Black?) monotone. Bob asked the rep and the 5 spd & moonroof combo will not make it into regular production models. :-( Also had a silver monotone Auto w/ moonroof & leather. The Forester Turbo looks like a winner.
'04 LL Bean Outback - had '03 Baja wheels, chrome vs. gold OUTBACK badging & it appears a slightly lighter shade of gold cladding.
'04 Legacy L 35th Anniversary Edition - appears to be the same as an '03 L-SE but includes 6 way power driver's seat (may have different seat fabric also).
'04 WRX, OBS & STi - no new news.
Did I miss anything, Bob?
DaveM
DaveM
I am also curious if there are any suspension parts that are upgraded from the NA Forester.
- D.
- Lou
Actually at your altitude, using 91 would be overkill on our engines. Higher altitude lowers octane needs.
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/gas_qanda/api_octane.shtml
Have you ever tried plain old 87? You might even see better power and gas milage.
Ken
Going down their list of factors affecting octane requirements though, it's a mixed bag for me:
Altitude - depending how you read this, it can go either way. The way I read it, the octane requirement falls at higher altitude, except if your engine management system compensates, which I suspect Subaru's do.
Humidity - dry conditions increase octane requirements. We live in a semi-arid desert.
Temperature - higher temps increase octane requirements. It's mild to hot here, rarely cold. (Avg high in January is 45, 75 is no exception)
Spark timing, knock sensor - this is what I'm hoping to avoid, tooling around town sub 2000 rpms
Driving conditions and style - although I tend not to lead-foot it, we have more steep hills than San Francisco, which is saying something ! I also tow a good-sized camper, utility trailer and whatnot. We put our Forester to use !
So all in all, I'm probably not that far off leaning to the premium. It does explain why regular is 85 octane here, and premium is 91 though.
-brianV
DaveM covered most of the points. Here are my comments:
• All '04s are improved over '03 models.
• Only '04 Legacy was a "35th Anniversary Model," which replaces the Legacy L-SE. It has a "35th Anniversary Model" decal on the front fender, cloth seats from the old Legacy GT, and no "L" badging on the rear hatch.
• The '04 LL Bean now has all "chrome" badging; no more gold badging anywhere. It also has wheels from the Baja (not Baja turbo).
• There were two Forester XTs there. One had a black finish with metallic gold specs in it. I loved the color, juice didn't...
• Speaking of colors, there were two '04 Bajas there (a Baja Sport and Baja Turbo), and both had great color combos. The BS had slightly lighter sliver cladding, topped by a med-dark gray body. It was very classy looking. The BT had dark charcoal gray cladding, topped by a black body. It also looked great. The SOA rep said there would be more Baja colors available this year. She said there would a monotone blue, perhaps(?) the same blue used on the Forester. I think the other colors remain but with a different silver cladding, but I'm not sure about that.
• The Baja turbo gets heated seats, but the rest of the AWP is MIA.
• Baja turbo auto does get both "direct control" (as per the Forester XT) and SPORTSHIFT/VTD (as per the Legacy GT auto) according to the teaser brochure.
• More questions than answers: A couple of the models on display had features that the production model won't get, according to the SOA reps. The Forester XT 5-speed had leather and moonroof, and the Baja Sport had leather. Not sure why they were displayed this, other than to gauge public reaction for possible mid-year changes?
• Couldn't sit in the STi, it was on a turn-table.
So... no all-new Legacy for USA until '05 model. No word on '04 Legacy GT turbo; although I still wouldn't be surprised if one showed up.
Major Bummer! I went to take a picture of the Baja Sport, and for some reason, my camera became detached from the cord hanging around my neck—fell to the floor, and broke! I didn't get one picture from the show!
Bob
• One of my bugaboos about the Baja, is that it's payload is less than any Subie car sold here. So I checked the door jamb label to see if if the payload had been increased, since there were obvious suspension changes due to the increased ground clearance. Guess what? The
"capacity" is no longer listed on the door jamb label. The GVWR is listed (4445 I think), but not the capacity. I thought at was mandated by federal law; I guess not. In any event, SOA must have gotten tired of complaints by me and others...
• Roof antenna on Baja is NOT for OnStar (good!), and it folds for longer roof rack loads (also good!!).
• Last year's WRX had a subtle blue outline around the WRX trunk/hatch badge. That's no longer the case. However, the new Forester XT and Baja Turbo now have a red outline accent around their respective hatch/tailgate badges. Go figure...
Bob
IIRC both Forester XTs had leather. One was "bogus" anyway, since it was a 5 speed with a moonroof. Same car from Chicago, I think. That black looked like a dark copper, as Ed put it. I did not like the color. The reddish black on the Baja turbo was nicer, IMO.
I left the show convinced I'd buy a silver auto/premium Forester XT, exactly like the one at the show, but then I read the Baja gets sportshift and VTD, hmm...
Both Bajas looked MUCH better than before, mainly color selection. The 2004 Baja Sport had vinyl/cloth seats, and they were not sure if those would make production.
I dunno if it's because they were raised, but they looked beefier. Colors are nicer, the idea of 235 lb-ft surely improves my opinion of it. It's still version 1.1, but it is a big improvement from 1.0.
Outbacks look more tasteful without the two-tone wheels and gold badging. A monotone champagne colored one would be just the ticket if you want a sleeper.
I left impressed. Every model improved, some subtle, others big. Nice job Subaru.
-juice
Why the *auto* Forester XT?
Ken
I'd take a manual, but I don't want another tiny pop-up, and I don't want to pay $900 for a tiny powered one.
I spoke to the wife about it, and she's more into the 2005 SUW to replace the Forester. Then she mentioned getting a slightly newer Miata to replace my '93.
All this in years to come, of course, not right away.
-juice
Bob
The huge moonroof corrupts! For a family hauler, it probably would make sense to get the auto.
Looks like you have your vehicle roadmap all planned out! We'll probably get a larger more practical "family" car too, but my wife has okayed that my next vehicle be my fun (within reason) car.
I went over to the local dealer yesterday to take a look at the 04 WRX. I was a little lukewarm to the facelift. While it does appeal to me more than the outgoing style, it still needs a little something. I actually don't like how the tailights look with the round lens built in to them. I thought the back of the wagons looked fine as they were.
Right next to the 04 WRX was a silver Forester XS premium. I imagined it with a hood scoop. If it does get a sportier suspension, I just might not fall to the dark side.
Ken
Bob
Outback VDC, Outback Limited, Outback sedans (all), Impreza RS & TS, and Legacy GTs.
Interesting that so many models were missing, considering the magnitude of this show. I guess they were only promoting what they consider to be "hot."
There's been much talk about the Baja's slow sales; what about the Outback sedans? I see less of them than I do Bajas! I would love to see a sales breakdown, of model by model. I bet there would be some real surprises there. I suspect there are several Subie models that sell not much better than the Baja.
Bob
-Brian
http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg/03_leg_photo.html
-mike