Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

bnormann · February 2000

As many of you know our message server complains
when any topic has more than 500 posts. So... we
are continuing this discussion here in Part II.

Please go here:
vivona "Store Bought Car Waxes (No Zaino Posts, Please)" Feb 21, 1999 3:39pm

to see the posts from the first topic.

Thanks,
your new host, Bruce

marsha7 · February 2000

and I was torn between Nu-Finish and Turtle Wax 2001, both described themselves as No-Wax, etc. Their descriptions on the containers was almost identical, so I chose Turtle Wax because they have been in the business for 1000 years (yes, since Y1K!). Before I apply it, can anyone tell me if I should have bought the Nu-Finish instead? Also, any other polymer brand I might consider, other than "Z"?

len_a · February 2000

Is anyone using this? I've used it on my 1990 cars because its very fast to use ... apply to entire car and then hose off. Water runs off, does not bead.

marsha7, I think this is a 'polymer brand' for your consideration. I have used Nu-finish in the past but I've never really compared it to other products. As my cars got older I started to care less about the appearance. It seems to be difficult just to find time to wax them twice per year. But now that I have a new Odyssey on the way I have get back into the car care game.

vivona · February 2000

In their comparision test, Consumer Reports reported Nu Finish Paste to provide much better durability than TW 2001.

Since you already have the 2001, do half your hood in 2001, half in Nu Finish Paste. Then check the shine and beading over the next few months. The one that lasts longer for you wins!

I can tell you from my own test that the TW Emerald Paste lasts about a week. I hope the 2001 does better. I get 8 months or better with Nu Finish.

Mr. Vivona

marsha7 · February 2000

Have not heard from you in quite a while. Thanks for the advice.

Bob

vivona · February 2000

I still read this topic regularly, but just haven't felt compelled to post that often since I am quite happy with my Nu Finish and don't need much further input.

I found that doing your own test of your top three or four choices is the best way to find out what is best for your car, paint, environmental conditions, etc. For me, Nu Finish Paste was the hands down winner. Meguiars Liquid Cleaner Wax was next. This is consistent with the findings of Consumer Reports in their test a few years ago.

Mr. Vivona

teeburd · February 2000

www.waxdepot.com

newwestd · February 2000

I have been using Super Glaze on and off for several years. It is very easy to use and does provide an excellent shine - but I find it does not last too long and must be re-applied frequently. I have found Meguiar's to last a lot longer, albeit with less of a gloss.

peterskm · February 2000

I have just finishing applying Collinite to my Jeep. I have always liked the look of a carnauba shine. This is my last wax test before I convert to Zaino. If this product doesn't last a few months, Zaino here I come. The shine is very nice (better than Meguiars or any other product I've used). If anyone's interested, I'll give updates on the durability.

Kevin

pat455 · February 2000

I'm sure lots of people would like to see your updates on the durability, so yes, please keep us posted.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

jcmoya · February 2000

The best product out there is Malms Formula 10 Polish / Glaze. I used Zaino products for almost 2 years. They are great. As the perfectionist that I am, I expended hundreds of $$$ looking for a better result? Crazy, uhmm!!! Not that I was unhappy with the Z-2, but for some reason I continue comparing, comparing and comparing different products. I have to admit that things got out of control when I started buying products that where sold only by mail or online. After 2 years, more than 30 product tested and aprox $500 invested I found something better than Zaino.....Malm's Formula 10 Polish & Glaze. It is incredible. It is expensive but it is concentrated. The wet look shine is better than Z-2 and also more durable (by far). The bad part is that is hard to apply and to remove (terrible). If you are doing it by hand, make sure that you have plenty of Ibuprofen at home before you start the project. But man!!! the results worth it....If you have any physical condition in which upper body movement and muscle effort is limited, stick with Zaino. Malm's is the way to go for those like me in which perfection is the name of the game, no matter what!!! Zaino users: Don't worry, Zaino still a great product, and after all not many people out there have the shine in their cars like yours. Not until you see yourself reflected in my Black Firebird at the next red light.
Sorry, Sal!!!

koury · February 2000

I am new to this discussion and just got through reading 517 posts in Part I, determined to learn how to take care of my new black Lincoln LS. Several of you have recommended using Dawn before and after claying; what does this do that standard car wash doesn't? And for the Nu Finish believers, is that a substitute for the two step process of a polish and then a wax? That would mean a Dawn/clay/Dawn/Nu Finish procedure, correct?

Thanks in advance.

vivona · February 2000

koury- Nu Finish is a cleaner/polish/wax, so it is all done in one step. So your Dawn/clay/Dawn/Nu Finish procedure is the way to go.

newwestd · February 2000

koury - The Dawn removes road grease and the old wax along with any dirt. Car wash is designed leave the wax as much as possible.

After Dawn and clay, you will be down to bare paint where your choice of polish and wax can work properly.

Good Luck!

koury · February 2000

vivona - thanks for the tip on Nu Finish. I'm assuming you are talking about the paste, not the liquid?

newwestd (and any others who have used Dawn) - this may sound ignorant, but we are talking about the dish washing liquid, correct? How much do you mix, do you use hot/warm/cold water, does it matter? And I'll assume that the only time you would use Dawn is when you will follow it up with a wax, otherwise you are exposing your car. Any recommendations on a good car wash cleaning liquid for in between waxings?

graphicguy · February 2000

The initial phase of getting your car ready for polish/wax is to Dawn (yes, Dawn blue dishwahing liquid)wash to get all the old wax, grease and imbedded dirt off your car (just like it does with your dishes). You don't want to use it for regular car washing as it will strip whatever protection you have on the car. True...you do want to follow up your Dawn wash immediately with a good polish and wax.

Car wash cleaning liquids are a matter of preference. You can go to a Pep Boys and find all sorts of specific liquids that are made to wash your car safely.

You can go to topic "Waxes and Polishes, part III" to get more info. Be warned, it's full of Zaino posts and biggotts (that aren't supposed to post here).

For a brand new Lincoln LS (fine car), I wouldn't mess around with the cleaner, polish, wax combos like Nu-Finish. There are plenty of good polishes and waxes that are much better. If you want to do it right, it will be at least a two step process, polish and then wax. If you are going to go to the trouble of claying first, I suspect that you may want to really get a good finish. There's carnuba waxes (like Blitz, Meguiars, etc) and polymer waxes (like Zaino, Liquid Glass, etc.) You'll see some that say they have teflon. Teflon waxes aren't very good unless you heat the paint to outrageous temperatures so the teflon supposedly "bonds" with the paint. I reject the teflon claims as balderdash. I've used both types and prefer polymers. Carnubas won't last as long as polymers. Some say that Carnubas won't give the depth of shine either. All of this is debatable, of course.

Let us know what you decide and your results.

koury · February 2000

Thanks for the detail - why wouldn't you use Nu Finish? Yes, you are correct, I do want a really good finish, but I'm as interested in good protection. By the way, my car is black, so I've got my work cut out for me. Does this change the strategy?

graphicguy · February 2000

Nu finish is an "all-in-one" type polish and wax. It doesn't do one thing particularly well. I have heard that it lasts a long time, but what difference does that make if it causes other problems. It's trying to be all things to all people. The problem that arises in using these types of products is that they contain abrasives that scratch your paint. Abrasives will leave swirls (look at some of the cars in a mall parking lot sometime). "Brush" and "softcloth" car washes do the same thing...leaves minute scratches or swirls in your clearcoat. I'll assume that you don't have heavy swirling on your car since it's new.

Unless you have some medium to heavey swirling in your paint, I would use "non-abrasives" on your finish. You want to get your paint as clean and as smooth as possilble without scratching the clear coat. Using Dawn and then claying (to pull out any imbedded stuff that the dawn doesn't) should leave your finish as clean and smooth as possible). A smooth, clean surface will allow your car's natural color and lustre come through. It will also add to the shine.

Black is the toughest color and much more susceptable to showing swirls than any other color I can think of (except maybe bright red). If cared for properly, nothing will look better though, IMHO.

I'm biased, but I have used many, many different products over the years (I had a sideline detailing business many years ago while in college). In general, Carnuba waxes don't last as long as polymers. Carnuba (or bees wax, which some companies tout) gets soft in the summer on your finish because of the heat. There are different grades of carnubas. Don't believe the hype of some waxes that say they are 100% carnuba. They can't be. Pure carnuba would be hard as rocks in a pure state and unuseable. Additives have to be present in order to soften the carnuba. Some are cheap and contain additives that aren't very helpful to your finish, either. There are some good carnubas out there, though. They will be more expensive than your "run-of-the-mill" waxes. Meguiars 3 step (clean, polish, wax) processes are good. I've also used Blitz Wax, which is also a good carnuba.

Again, I prefer polymers for their depth of shine and durability. The best I've found is Zaino. I won't go on here about it. It's only available mail order. I don't sell the stuff, I'm just a true believer. Send me an e-mail and I'll send their link (graphicguy@yahoo.com). The other polymer that is good is "liquid glass". Go to "Waxes and Polishes part III" in this conference for more specific discussion on this.

newwestd · February 2000

koury -
All good, sound advice from graphicguy. re: Dawn - must be the Blue type, and used ONLY for pre-waxing. A good squirt into a bucket of water is OK. Warm or cold doesn't seem to matter, but don't do it if it's hot out, and rinse often and really well.

For your Black finish, I also recommend a multi-step process to make it look it's best after the Dawn/Clay/Dawn (hey - you bought the black!) I have had good success with Eagle One "Wet Look" polish. It is a glaze, meaning a very fine polishing compound. Then, follow with Wax Shoppe Liquid Glaze Carnuba. Doesn't last too long, but it is very to use and has a great shine. I use an orbital power waxer - easy and no swirls at all.

Do take a look at the polymers. For black, they may be incomparable. It is the "show car" look.

For washing I have been using Turtle Wax "Zip Wax" car wash for about 30 years! It cleans without stripping the wax, and even helps shine a bit.

Good Luck and start right away before your paint can get spoiled.

rs_petty · February 2000

I am also a Malm's user (polish & wax, but not the Formula 10). I noticed you posted a correction on the Zaino topic. Could you elaborate on your side by side comparison please. Where you using Malm's over Zaino?

jcmoya · February 2000

yep!!! that was the mistake. I did not remove the Zaino coat properly. I thought Dawn was enough to do the job but a friend told me that the only way I could remove the Z-2 was with alcohol. After removing the layer of Zaino and applied the Malm's formula 10 again, I sadly found that the shine was not like the one before. I did not have the Z-2 on hand to do a side by side comparison but I am 100% sure that was not the final result I had before. So... should I use Z-2 first and then Malms formula 10??? I don't know about you but it is too much work!!!

vivona · February 2000

Nu Finish would be just fine for your car. In a comparison test Consumer Reports found it very low in abrasiveness. It cleans chemically, not with abrasives like some other cleaner/waxes. It does provide a decent shine, though not quite as glossy as Meguairs Cleaner Wax Liquid. But it will outlast them all. The Nu Finish Paste is better than the liquid, though both rate high.

graphicguy · February 2000

I'll applogize up front in talking about Zaino, but there are some mistakes you're making. I'll admit that I don't know much about Malms because I've never used it. Zaino, however, is designed to work as a system. Z1 is a polish lock. It cleans the paint and lays down a layer that will react chemically with the Z2 to achieve it's shine. Z1/Z2 are made to work together. I doubt you are getting good results by putting Malms over Z1 or Z2. If you are going to use Malms, use their polish and wax together. If you are going to use Zaino, use Z1 and Z2 together for the results you desire. I doubt that Z2 will do much using malms as a base or vice versa...two entirely different formulations.

vivona--Respectfully, I must disagree. My sister has a black SUV that she used Nu-Finish on. It did cause swirls in her paint after only one application. Over time, she kept using Nu-Finish. The more she used it, the more swirls she encountered. I could actually see the circular swirls in the clearcoat she made while applying it after the wax was removed.

jster · February 2000

Anyone try any of the Surluster products. I've seen a few ads/blurbs on the net--but haven't heard anything from anyone who has actually used them. The wax is supposed to be high in carnauba content yet easy to put on and take off-but that's what they all say. Has anyone used surluster?

vivona · February 2000

In using Nu Finish it is important to keep cleaning the application sponge. If you clean off dirt or oxidation and it sticks to the sponge, the residue, not the Nu Finish, can cause tiny scratches. I have found that mineral spirits quickly cleans the applicator, followed up by a detergent wash to remove the mineral spirits. Or you can buy a bagful of applicators at an auto accessory store.

Waxing, with any product, should be done in a back and forth motion, not circular, to reduce the potential for swirls.

I have had no problems with swirl marks on my clearcoat paint. But then it's silver so it is not as critical as a black car.

Mr. Vivona

graphicguy · February 2000

Agree with you about waxing the car in a "front to back" motion on horizontal surfaces and "up and down" on vertical surfaces. This is more a function of applying a wax/polish in a manner that increases reflectivity than anything else, though. It's also important to use 100% cotton applicators and towels (100% cotton won't scratch the clearcoat like polyester, nylon, etc. will).

I'm aware of the "consumer reports" study on car waxes. For the waxes they studied, they are probably right in their assessments. I'll spend a few dollars more for a higher quality wax than what they tested, though.

Silver won't show swirls nearly as much as black (or any darker color). I did use "nu-finish" years ago and ended up with the same swirling and lack of depth, shine, luster over a period of time. I'm not down playing nu-finish (or any other store bought waxes for that matter). I have just found better alternatives.

switchingsoon · March 2000

I've heard its one of the best Carnauba based waxes. It has been recommended to me to use instead of a polymer based wax because my car is new. I do not want to clay, polish or glaze my paint as it already looks great. I just want a high quality wax and supposedly One Grand is it. Anyone tried it?

graphicguy · March 2000

...is probably one of the best Carnuba blends out there. The fact that you a new car should make absolutely no difference whether you use a carnuba or polymer. I've used one grand in the past, but switched to a polymer for it's shine and durability.

switchingsoon · March 2000

Thanks for your response. I have been told that with new paint (car was built end of Jan.) you should allow it to completely cure or harden for at least 90 days before using a polymer wax. Apparently, polymers do not "breathe" as well as Carnauba. I may switch to a polymer in a few months, but I wanted to try Carnauba first. I've been told Carnauba has a better depth of shine on a dark car (subjective). I also understand it will not last as long as you mention.

achakra1 · March 2000

Hey folks! I'm not sure who mentioned this brand of wax but I think it was in part I of this topic. Anyway, I spent 4 and a half hours yesterday washing and then waxing my car. I washed it with Turtle Wax car wash, and then use Mother's brand California Gold wax. Comes in a red tin and has Carnauba wax. I've got to tell you, looking up this topic before buying cleaning supplies was the best thing I did. Now my car shines better than it did when I got it from the dealers 2 weeks back.
Thanks to all of you folks for sharing your insights and experiences.

jdonnee · March 2000

This this the same wax that I see in my boat store but have never seen in the auto discount store?

Does anyone know what auto store carries it?

jster · March 2000

I have seen Collinite in several body shop supply/auto paint stores in my area. You might try calling around to these types of stores in the area where you live.

It is also available on mail-order through the web. Do a web search for Collinite Wax.

artmbgolf · March 2000

My vote for best wax is Liquid Glass. It comes in an old fashion can, with red Vette on front. You can apply in sun or shade and no matter how long you leave it on, you can wipe it off so easily. It is easy, fast and really protects.

jdonnee · March 2000

Is Liquid glass really a wax or a coating of something that seals the surface? A few years ago, i tried a Johnson product that looked like it put a coat of teflon on the finish and it was horrible.

What's LG made off?

shekharpatel · March 2000

Accidently scratched the windshield while removing the super hard frost. What are my options? Any help will be appreciated.

graphicguy · March 2000

Someone is feeding you a lot of misinformation. With today's paint formulations, there is no need to wait for "paint to cure" at all. Further, depth of shine is a subjective topic. I've used both carnubas and polymers. I much prefer the shine, clarity, depth and lustre of polymers. In addition, get the April edition of Motor Trend. There's an article in the issue talking about car finish "myths". The director of Training for Meguiar's is quoted in the article stating that polymers far outlast carnubas.

anonymous · March 2000

Thanks for your feedback. Other than the dreaded "Z" product, which polymer would you recommend? I believe Meguiars Gold Class is a polymer and is readily available where I live. I've also read favourable results with Liquid Glass. Is it also a polymer? What about Zymol? Thanks again.

peterskm · March 2000

I would skip the meguiars. It shines well, but doesn't last. Liquid Glass might be good...I've never used it though. If you have decided to go with a polymer, the "Z" is the way to go. I have not used Zaino, yet. I am a carnauba man, however, I am getting tired of waxing every month. I just applied Collonite wax last month as my final carnauba wax test. If it doesn't last a couple of months, I am switching to Zaino out of pure laziness. I never understood people who are adamant about not using Zaino. If you want a polymer wax, look around, everyone who has used Zaino loves it. What more do you need? I have never heard more praise about any other type of wax, let alone a polymer wax. Go with the "Z"!

Kevin

Sergeich · March 2000

I use Zaino but I would switch if I found a better polish.

graphicguy · March 2000

The very first polymer I used was Liquid Glass. Not bad, but not "Z" either. Meguiar's Gold is a good product, but as peterskm points out, it doesn't last nearly as long as "Z" IMHO.

jbadams · March 2000

it does last. I have had it on my car for over 4 months with spectacular shine results. I park daily next to a guy who "Z"'s his car and I can't tell a difference. "Z" is hype.

brentskic · March 2000

In the Dawn/Clay/Dawn/Polish/Wax/Gloss sequence, do you need to shammy dry after each of the Dawn/Clay/Dawn steps?

Also, in simple terms how long does this sequence take for a brand new car for one coat of wax. I realize that any second coats of wax will probably require overnight drying of first coat.

I'm with Koury in wanting to baby a new LS, Estate Green. Can't wait to see how it looks detailed. More importantly, can't wait to have good protectant on her that allows less future maintenance time and worry free LSing.

Gischpel · March 2000

I think most people dry after the first wash to make sure no water spots result. It probably is less needed, depending on the hardness of your water, temperature outside, humidity, etc., as you are going to go over the finish with clay shortly thereafter. The second time definitely needs drying because you want the surface dry to begin applying the polish/wax. I use an Absorber (artificial chamois) that I bought at Kmart for $10 and am done in what seems no time at all.

Terry

newwestd · March 2000

It is important to dry in between steps to avoid water spots as mentioned above, and also at the last step to avoid getting water in the wax. It is not big deal when you put it on, but if there is some water lurking when you wipe it off, you will just smear it and never get it off.

Before waxing, I dry the car, then take it on the freeway up and back about 5-6 miles at maximum allowable speed to blow off as much water as possible.

peterskm · March 2000

Let me start out by saying that I have never used Zaino (yet?).

In regards to Zaino outlasting Meguiars Gold Class or even Deep Crystal for that matter, I am willing to bet it does. For the record, when I am talking about outlasting, I mean durability, not shine. I will wager money that water does not bead on your car like it does on a car with "Z" after a couple of months. This seems to be a proven fact. I am not speaking from "Z" experience, but from Meguiars experience. I have tried all of Meguiar's products and thought they produce a great shine, beading is generally gone within the first month. This is the reason I don't use it anymore.

As far as you comparing your car to the "Z'd" car in the parking lot, you have to compare apples to apples. By this I mean if you park you car in a garage and he doesn't, your wax will last longer than it normally does. Also, if you wanted a more scientific comparison, you'd have to apply the wax at the sdame time he applied the Zaino. I am not sure if Zaino is the miracle wax, but it does seem like a good alternative to regular carnauba wax.

--Kevin

newwestd · March 2000

I do like the Meguiar's products and have used them and just about everything else for the last 30 years. However, the Meguiar's (and other carnubas')gloss and protection seem to be gone soon, starting in about a month for a car parked outside here in So. Cal.

Although we are not supposed to talk about the "Z" polymer product here, I find that there are so many enthusiastic users that I am going to try it this weekend. Also - It has been around for many years - it is not another "As seen on TV" miracle wax.

After all, the reason we are here is because we want the best for our cars, right? If it means switching from wax to polymers or even to weasel spit - if it works, why not?

It is important to be open minded. Many here would have (and probably did) poo-pooed using a computer for email not too long ago!

div2 · March 2000

I recall that you were conducting a comparison test with Z a while back. What was your final conclusion? You seem to be one of the few objective experts out there. TIA.

lanie1 · March 2000

Several car care sites refer to special problems with German finishes, in particular problems with hazing if polymers or certain other products are used.

Are any of you aware of special needs for German finishes. If so, what are best products and methods for caring for the finishes on German cars, particularly BMW?

Also, are products which specify they are for use on a particular make of car really better for that car?

newwestd · March 2000

This has been mentioned lately on other forums, but no one was able to confirm any problems, and many with German cars are using polymer products and are very happy.

Don't know where this comes from or why there could be a problem. If I learn any more about this I will post the information.

graphicguy · March 2000

"Weasle spit"?...IROTFLMAO! Of course, if it works....? How does one go about finding a weasle to give up some spit for a "side-by-side" comparison with Zaino and Meguiar's? LOL!

peterskm · March 2000

The wax that shoman was talking about is Collonite. I bought some and am in the process of testing it. I am not doing a side-by-side comparison with "Z". My reasoning is if it lasts for 3 months or so, I'll stick with it. I am curious as to how durable it really is. It has been a month so far and it still beads water very nicely and the shine still kicks [non-permissible content removed]. If it doesn't last until at least three months, I'm switching to Zaino.

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

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