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87. Only 87. Nothing but 87! After going through this problem with a truck I had, I learned a lot about octane and the myths associated with it.
Meade
So far as feeling the engine while idling, I can feel a slight vibration too. But I think it's normal, especially for a 4-cylinder engine w/o any counterbalance measures. I'd have to get a "seat of the pants" feel of your car's vibration to judge whether it's normal or not.
Now, my '89 323 idles roughly after they tightened the bands in the AT. They claim it's within spec (even though it was way worse after they jiggered with it). Oh well, I shift into N when at stops. It's not the engine, I think, since it idles smoothly enough when I'm not idling in a drive gear. I think it's in the engine/transmission interface.
My wife's 1999 ES 5-speed did fine through 60,000 miles (except for need for new water pump at 3,000 miles). However, the alternator just died (and it took the stock battery with it). The only alternator I could find was an original Mazda remanufactured one that cost me $196. A factory new Mazda alternator would have cost about $270, so I opted for the Mazda reman. Labor was $75/hour at dealer for a 2-hour job, so I found another shop that did it for $60/hour and it took them 1.5 hours. I ended up spending $305 for parts and labor - ouch!!!
Now, the water pump bearings have locked-up (the second water pump), which destroyed the alternator belt and caused the car to begin to overheat just as my wife arrived home from work. Hope it didn't cause any engine damage, but no way to tell yet. I supposed I will go ahead and get the timing belt replaced now, although I wanted to squeeze it to 70,000 miles.
Sure hope this isn't the start of a rapid deterioration of the car - we had hoped to keep it past 100,000 miles.
I guess CV joints will need replacing within the next 20,000 miles or less (based on previous Mazda ownership of a 1986 626 and 1992 Protege).
At least the brakes are great. I still have all original front and rear brake pads at 63,000 miles (knock on wood).
Keep a close eye on your alternators folks!
Chrysler for a few years engineered an engine that pinginged as part of its normal operation. They called it "the sound of economy", or something like that, because it was due in part to how lean the engine ran. The Pro ain't supposed to do that, though, and it can quite damaging to the engine. Here's some reading on the topic FYI:
http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html
Owners-manual recommend running 87 octane minimum, not maximum.
Meade
P.S. Even though my past experiences have been very positive (i.e. never any unscheduled maintenance with FOUR Proteges), I also don't believe in LUCK. I purchased the 6-year, 100,000 mile extended warranty for my car for around $800. With all those things you just experienced at 63,000 miles, you just about paid that much right there. Maybe my '92 was an exception -- most cars tend to start shedding things like alternators and water pumps around 60,000 to 80,000 miles. Hell, my wife's 1995 Cavalier was on its second alternator, second valve cover gasket, and was in need of its FOURTH head gasket ($600 parts & labor each time) when we sold the car this past January with only *53,000* miles on it -- so it could be worse, MUCH worse!
Pinging doesn't occur at idle. Pinging would occur when the PCM(powertrain control module) advances the timing upwards of 1500rpm. your rough idle should have nothing to do with what octane rating your fuel has.
It's not just coincidence that after the alternator was replaced, the water pump went.
As far as it being the Pro's weak spot, I don't know. Japanese cars use 1 of 3 alternator suppliers: Hitachi, NipponDenso or Mitsubishi. In the Protege's case, it's Mitsubishi and the only thing different from a handful of other cars out there would be placement of the alternator on the engine.
Shut off all the other items and if the A/C kicks ON, no problems.
So what is common?
The electric supply?
Where does it come from?
The alternator.
The engine speed picks up, that is why I said it ALMOST stalls. If the PCM did not pick it up, it would have stalled for sure.
An alternator failing at 20,000mi is a "weak point" IMO.
BTW Mead, I bought the extra warranty too. I think I paid a tick under 800.00, but I wasn't going to buy it so the guy lowered the price to "cost", heh. I figured one major repair during the extended warranty and it pays for itself.
JFYI, i had a desktop connected all by myself to a huge CNC machine having a Fanuc Controller....
Meade
I agree with you in regard to the high octane fuel. My 2000 LX will not ping on high octane fuel. So what does the damage--high octane fuel, or letting it ping?
Driving from Raleigh to Nashville tomorrow. How's that for a test drive to see if the problem is fixed?
What have I learned from this entire ordeal:
If the dealer tells you nothing is wrong with your car and you know there is, be persistent.
BTW, the Mazda dealership was very professional, and in the end they took care of me very well.
Also good to hear that the dealership took care of you.
Those pings are likely the sound of your valves being slammed back into their seats by premature combustion. Probably not a problem when intermittent, but will lead to much shorter life spans and an earlier head job (valve head cover and likely your own too).
I wonder if someone can explain this? Ever since I started having the alternator problem my car is idling lower than normal, ~300rpm when stopped in D (auto tranny) and ~500rpn in Park (both of these numbers are ~100rpm higher with AC on). Accelarating from a stop when the car is idling that low sometimes causes a jerky hesitation. If my memory serves me correctly the car normally idles ~800rpm. This is causing me a bit of concern that maybe there is still some underlying problem yet to be diagnosed. Maybe I'm just paranoid from the recent problems. Any thoughts?
Your number of 500 seems low, but maybe it's within specs?
Maybe you just need the idle adjusted by the techs?
The car runs fine, except when starting from a stop the car is a little jerky from idling so low (~300 rpm's). Since it takes me 45 minutes to drive 9 miles to and from work, you can imagine how many times I am starting and stopping (grrrr!). I'll be glad when my training is over and I start traveling (drive time to the airport is 5 min).
It's time to have my timing belt replaced and my trusted local mechanics are willing to do this for me, but in their research they are being told that there are two special Mazda tools needed for this procedure.
Are these tools really needed and what are they for?
Also, what all parts do I need to get: so far my list includes: timing belt, valve cover gasket, external belts.....
What am I forgetting? Thanks for your expert help.
M. Karns
You may want to consider replacing the water pump at the same time, since that will be accessible then.
I went with the local Mazda dealer as I wanted someone with experience on Proteges to do it right the first time and not have any nagging oil leaks afterward (a little paranoid I guess).
To reduce the cost of service you can usually find dealer service coupons for 10% off on many dealer's websites.
Finally, the clutch pack in my a/c unit just went out the other day. I'm currently at 146K and plan on running the car up to 300K, so I'm going to bite the bullet and get a new a/c unit(compressor,clutch pack, etc.) for $500. Of course, the wholesale value of my car is only around $2000. But to me it is worth three times that as it's a great car.
Meade
Lately, when I start my Pro, the LCD display for the stereo will be FUBARED. For example, when it should read "8:00" I will see "0:U0" or something like that. Lines are missing from the readout. If I press on the top of the HU above the clock button, then the display goes back to normal.
I've tried making sure that NOTHING else is running when I start it up (ie. radio off, air off, nothing plugged into outlet, no CD in stereo) and I've tried all the combinations with the aforementioned. It still happens under any of those conditions.
Does anybody know what is up? I'm going to take it to the dealer, but just thought somebody might have some ideas. Thanks!
BTW, I've got an '01 LX 2.0. I didn't have these problems in the winter...the problem has just started in the last week or so, and has gotten worse now.
I'm guessing this is the cause as you say the LCD displays the correct information when you press down on the faceplate. So the information being sent is OK. The display is OK. The signal is all-messed-up.
For anyone with a PDA with a similar situation, you may want to check the ribbon connector to the display. My wife's Palm IIIxe experienced short battery life and flaky operation. I noticed it only acted that way when the metal stylus was in its slot. Found out the insulation on a couple of conductors in the LCD's input ribbon cable was worn away by the stylus. The stylus shorted across the wires. Easy fix: bend the ribbon cable away from the stylus.
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clean version
(ED is past tense :-D )
Has anyone encountered this problem?
I've got a 2000 ES Protege with 35,000 miles and the overdrive (O/D) light started blinking. The dealership which I had it towed to did not really find any problems. They topped off the tranny fluid (the level seemed okay when I checked it...)
but the problem still occurred.
I've had it come on 3 times within the span of 2 days. The only commonality was that these were long trips (several hundred miles) on warm days.
Am I going to have a dead tranny soon?
Thanks
-Doug
-Doug
Doug, my wife's Mazda PRO-ES had her Auto Tranny replaced under warranty at about 31,500 miles. She had just had her 30,000 mile service done about 7 weeks prior to the tranny failure. Some kind of solenoid switch in the tranny crapped out? Mazda paid for a loaner car for 3 days and all associated repair costs.
1.) First the (O/D) light started blinking.
However, it would stop flashing after a bit.
2.) After about a week the (O/D) light stayed on non-
stop. At that point, we had the Mazda Dealer
service the car. They claimed, they pulled a
code; indicating the fuel cap was loose? Yea
right! BTW, did you know pigs can fly. LOL!
They reset the code and said, A..M..F!
3.) The next day the (O/D) light started blinking
and the check engine light came on. Her dash
display looked like a X-mas tree! Back to
the Mazda Dealer and Mazda North America
said; "put in a new tranny Mr. Service Mgr."
No problems since then. BTW, we love our
2000 Mazda Protege ES's!
Doug, your car is still under warranty. Stay cool and make your Mazda Dealer fully under stands all your concerns.
-love train
(And I'm also glad we extended the warranty on my wife's new AUTOMATIC Protege5 to 6 years/100K miles!!!)
Nice to hear your tranny problem is reaching "distant past" status ... and that it didn't ruin your high opinion of your car!
Meade
I hope that made sense.
Are you going to bake it a cake?
:P
Also, I have to fix up some cable runs in my new house so no time tonight either. Oh well...how about YOU bake me a cake and send it up to Canada?
Umm...to make this on topic...My HU is getting worse. Pressing down sometimes doesn't work now and it stays screwed up longer now. D'oh! I'm gonna take it to the dealer as soon as I get a chance though.
Meade
-love train
Plus, using the extended warranty, you assure your car gets Mazda parts -- which have warranties themselves -- when it does have a problem. (As opposed to if you had a problem at 60,000 miles and went shopping for the cheapest part you could find, installed by some mechanic who's never TOUCHED a Protege before ...)
And, if you DO sell the car before that warranty expires, it's one heck of a selling tool ... how many people do you know who put cars in the classifieds with, say, 75,000 miles on them, and are able to advertize, "25,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty?"
But, just as you say, it's real peace of mind when you've got a family, a new baby, a big ol' mortgage, etc. What is it Forrest Gump said ... "you know, one less thing ..."
Meade