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Mazda Protege Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    http://theserviceadvisor.com/octane.htm


    87. Only 87. Nothing but 87! After going through this problem with a truck I had, I learned a lot about octane and the myths associated with it.


    Meade

  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    It shouldn't foul anything and shouldn't be messing with your car's computers either.

    So far as feeling the engine while idling, I can feel a slight vibration too. But I think it's normal, especially for a 4-cylinder engine w/o any counterbalance measures. I'd have to get a "seat of the pants" feel of your car's vibration to judge whether it's normal or not.

    Now, my '89 323 idles roughly after they tightened the bands in the AT. They claim it's within spec (even though it was way worse after they jiggered with it). Oh well, I shift into N when at stops. It's not the engine, I think, since it idles smoothly enough when I'm not idling in a drive gear. I think it's in the engine/transmission interface.
  • compensatecompensate Member Posts: 212
    Well, I must say that Mazda timed their warranty pretty wisely from a financial standpoint.

    My wife's 1999 ES 5-speed did fine through 60,000 miles (except for need for new water pump at 3,000 miles). However, the alternator just died (and it took the stock battery with it). The only alternator I could find was an original Mazda remanufactured one that cost me $196. A factory new Mazda alternator would have cost about $270, so I opted for the Mazda reman. Labor was $75/hour at dealer for a 2-hour job, so I found another shop that did it for $60/hour and it took them 1.5 hours. I ended up spending $305 for parts and labor - ouch!!!

    Now, the water pump bearings have locked-up (the second water pump), which destroyed the alternator belt and caused the car to begin to overheat just as my wife arrived home from work. Hope it didn't cause any engine damage, but no way to tell yet. I supposed I will go ahead and get the timing belt replaced now, although I wanted to squeeze it to 70,000 miles.

    Sure hope this isn't the start of a rapid deterioration of the car - we had hoped to keep it past 100,000 miles.

    I guess CV joints will need replacing within the next 20,000 miles or less (based on previous Mazda ownership of a 1986 626 and 1992 Protege).

    At least the brakes are great. I still have all original front and rear brake pads at 63,000 miles (knock on wood).

    Keep a close eye on your alternators folks!
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    I think the weak(est) link in the 99-00 ES is the alternator.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    The original octane rating is all well and good, but these folks aren't using higher octane willy-nilly, they're doing it in order to avoid damage from pinging engines. Here one dealer is saying I can't fix the pinging, but at the same time you can't use the fix of running with higher octane fuel. I can see how that would be very frustrating.


    Chrysler for a few years engineered an engine that pinginged as part of its normal operation. They called it "the sound of economy", or something like that, because it was due in part to how lean the engine ran. The Pro ain't supposed to do that, though, and it can quite damaging to the engine. Here's some reading on the topic FYI:


    http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    running higher octane fuel should not damage anything.
    Owners-manual recommend running 87 octane minimum, not maximum.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    My '92 went 83,000 miles and had nary a problem. Second water pump? At what mileage did the first one go? And btw, the timing belt on the 2000 engine (same as the '99) doesn't get replaced until 105,000 miles. All they call for is a CHECK at 60,000 miles. Check your owner's manual ... isn't it the same for the '99, since they have the same engine?

    Meade

    P.S. Even though my past experiences have been very positive (i.e. never any unscheduled maintenance with FOUR Proteges), I also don't believe in LUCK. I purchased the 6-year, 100,000 mile extended warranty for my car for around $800. With all those things you just experienced at 63,000 miles, you just about paid that much right there. Maybe my '92 was an exception -- most cars tend to start shedding things like alternators and water pumps around 60,000 to 80,000 miles. Hell, my wife's 1995 Cavalier was on its second alternator, second valve cover gasket, and was in need of its FOURTH head gasket ($600 parts & labor each time) when we sold the car this past January with only *53,000* miles on it -- so it could be worse, MUCH worse!
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    I'm confused...

    Pinging doesn't occur at idle. Pinging would occur when the PCM(powertrain control module) advances the timing upwards of 1500rpm. your rough idle should have nothing to do with what octane rating your fuel has.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Remember, both of these are belt driven and contain bearings. Simple, I know. But there is a good reason that all manufacturers specify belt tensions: People love to over tighten belts, even seasoned technicians.

    It's not just coincidence that after the alternator was replaced, the water pump went.

    As far as it being the Pro's weak spot, I don't know. Japanese cars use 1 of 3 alternator suppliers: Hitachi, NipponDenso or Mitsubishi. In the Protege's case, it's Mitsubishi and the only thing different from a handful of other cars out there would be placement of the alternator on the engine.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    'cause during idle(as discussed eons ago), if you have your defroster ON, radiator ON and the lights ON and the A/C compressor kicks ON, the 1.8L almost STALLS, gives a nice hearty jerk(KICK) into the passenger compartment.

    Shut off all the other items and if the A/C kicks ON, no problems.

    So what is common?
    The electric supply?
    Where does it come from?
    The alternator.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    When the A/C is on, the PCM kicks the idle up. Not so for all the other accessories. I think maybe they should have programed the PCM to not allow the idle to drop below a specified RPM. The alternator is just doing it's job trying to make more power while the engine isn't supplying it.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    the PCM is tooo slow to react.
    The engine speed picks up, that is why I said it ALMOST stalls. If the PCM did not pick it up, it would have stalled for sure.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    You need to hack the PCM with your laptop and start changing a few parameters. I bet you could even fix your 2nd->1st clunk.
  • gladicheckedgladichecked Member Posts: 93
    just had the alternator replaced at ~20,000mi, luckily still under warranty. Will pick it up tomorrow, one day before my 500+ mile move to Nashville TN. Hope that fixes the electrical gremlins that were happening and they did a good job putting everything back together. I won't really have time to give it a good test before my trip.

    An alternator failing at 20,000mi is a "weak point" IMO.

    BTW Mead, I bought the extra warranty too. I think I paid a tick under 800.00, but I wasn't going to buy it so the guy lowered the price to "cost", heh. I figured one major repair during the extended warranty and it pays for itself.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    any guidelines on how to connect the laptop to the PCM? ;)

    JFYI, i had a desktop connected all by myself to a huge CNC machine having a Fanuc Controller....
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Sorry about your alternator. My 2000 ES just passed 38,300 today -- almost twice your mileage -- and no alternator or other problems. Yet.

    Meade
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    ..if the belts are tensioned too high. As maltb mentioned, you can easily ruin the bearings in the alternator or any belt/pulley-run device by putting too much force onto the bearings.
  • gladicheckedgladichecked Member Posts: 93
    This has been the first problem I have had with my Pro so I am still happy with my car. I still think the problem was the voltage regulator, but since I am moving tomorrow and making that long drive (and they could never reproduce the problem at the dealership) they were nice enough to replace the alternator as a precaution. Hopefully this will take care of the problem.
  • curt3curt3 Member Posts: 101
    Mazdafun, Chikoo,
    I agree with you in regard to the high octane fuel. My 2000 LX will not ping on high octane fuel. So what does the damage--high octane fuel, or letting it ping?
  • gladicheckedgladichecked Member Posts: 93
    So far so good...knock on wood!

    Driving from Raleigh to Nashville tomorrow. How's that for a test drive to see if the problem is fixed?

    What have I learned from this entire ordeal:

    If the dealer tells you nothing is wrong with your car and you know there is, be persistent.

    BTW, the Mazda dealership was very professional, and in the end they took care of me very well.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Good to hear all worked out (so far??). I hope your drive goes well for you.

    Also good to hear that the dealership took care of you. :D
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Good luck. And good for you being persistent.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Between pinging and paying a bit more for premium, I'd buy the premium gas.

    Those pings are likely the sound of your valves being slammed back into their seats by premature combustion. Probably not a problem when intermittent, but will lead to much shorter life spans and an earlier head job (valve head cover and likely your own too).
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    i'd rather go with premium than with engine damage.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Pinging, also referred to as spark knock, is caused by 2 flame fronts colliding in the combustion chamber instead of one front expanding across the chamber as designed. In severe cases it will eventually blow holes through the piston crowns.
  • gladicheckedgladichecked Member Posts: 93
    I had no reoccurance of the battery light coming on or other strange electrical happenings.

    I wonder if someone can explain this? Ever since I started having the alternator problem my car is idling lower than normal, ~300rpm when stopped in D (auto tranny) and ~500rpn in Park (both of these numbers are ~100rpm higher with AC on). Accelarating from a stop when the car is idling that low sometimes causes a jerky hesitation. If my memory serves me correctly the car normally idles ~800rpm. This is causing me a bit of concern that maybe there is still some underlying problem yet to be diagnosed. Maybe I'm just paranoid from the recent problems. Any thoughts?
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    If you lift up the hood, there's a sticker in the middle of the hood. I was just looking at mine today when I was detailing the engine bay. It said that 700 rpm was normal for a MT in idle in neutral and for an AT in P (Park).

    Your number of 500 seems low, but maybe it's within specs?

    Maybe you just need the idle adjusted by the techs?
  • number42number42 Member Posts: 67
    About that a/t timing. Mine says 750 for auto.
  • kaiserheadkaiserhead Member Posts: 166
    I've been putting 89 octane fuel in my 2000 SE 1.6L, no pinging or rattling.
  • rinny16rinny16 Member Posts: 2
    Hi! I just found this site and group. I've been struggling with my 97 Protege's check engine light. It seems to come on for any and all reasons. In response to the computer messages, I've changed both the oxygen sensor, the speed sensor, and I've had the wire, etc all checked/tuned-up. Now when it comes on, it's kicking me out of overdrive for varying periods of time. Help! Has anyone else had a similar experience? Any suggestions on what is the base cause of the problem?
  • gladicheckedgladichecked Member Posts: 93
    I talked with the local Mazda dealership here in Nashville and explained my electrical/alternator problems and subsequent low RPM's at idling. He suspects that when the power supply (battery) was unhooked to test the alternator (the 1st time I took the car in) it may have reset the idle setting or somehow affected it. He said he has seen this before. So now I will have to take the car back in to have the idle readjusted.

    The car runs fine, except when starting from a stop the car is a little jerky from idling so low (~300 rpm's). Since it takes me 45 minutes to drive 9 miles to and from work, you can imagine how many times I am starting and stopping (grrrr!). I'll be glad when my training is over and I start traveling (drive time to the airport is 5 min).
  • mkarns1mkarns1 Member Posts: 14
    Hi All:

    It's time to have my timing belt replaced and my trusted local mechanics are willing to do this for me, but in their research they are being told that there are two special Mazda tools needed for this procedure.

    Are these tools really needed and what are they for?

    Also, what all parts do I need to get: so far my list includes: timing belt, valve cover gasket, external belts.....

    What am I forgetting? Thanks for your expert help.

    M. Karns
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Likely to make it easier and lessen the likelihood of damage to a couple of parts while removing them. At least, that's what it appears from the service manual for my '89 323. Some seem to be useful, others (like the "special" oil filter wrench) don't.

    You may want to consider replacing the water pump at the same time, since that will be accessible then.
  • jrdwyerjrdwyer Member Posts: 168
    I had the timing belt replaced on my '95 Protege 1.5 LX at 70K and again at 135K. I also had the dealer replace the water pump at 135K because of its location under the timing belt cover.

    I went with the local Mazda dealer as I wanted someone with experience on Proteges to do it right the first time and not have any nagging oil leaks afterward (a little paranoid I guess).

    To reduce the cost of service you can usually find dealer service coupons for 10% off on many dealer's websites.

    Finally, the clutch pack in my a/c unit just went out the other day. I'm currently at 146K and plan on running the car up to 300K, so I'm going to bite the bullet and get a new a/c unit(compressor,clutch pack, etc.) for $500. Of course, the wholesale value of my car is only around $2000. But to me it is worth three times that as it's a great car.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    ... on the "Problems" discussion? Bring it over to the general discussion, guys!

    Meade
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Here's a legitimate problem...

    Lately, when I start my Pro, the LCD display for the stereo will be FUBARED. For example, when it should read "8:00" I will see "0:U0" or something like that. Lines are missing from the readout. If I press on the top of the HU above the clock button, then the display goes back to normal.

    I've tried making sure that NOTHING else is running when I start it up (ie. radio off, air off, nothing plugged into outlet, no CD in stereo) and I've tried all the combinations with the aforementioned. It still happens under any of those conditions.

    Does anybody know what is up? I'm going to take it to the dealer, but just thought somebody might have some ideas. Thanks!

    BTW, I've got an '01 LX 2.0. I didn't have these problems in the winter...the problem has just started in the last week or so, and has gotten worse now.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    A connector could be slipping loose, corrosion at one of the connectors, frayed insulation on a conductor etc. Something seems to be interfering with the signal being fed to the LCD.

    I'm guessing this is the cause as you say the LCD displays the correct information when you press down on the faceplate. So the information being sent is OK. The display is OK. The signal is all-messed-up.

    For anyone with a PDA with a similar situation, you may want to check the ribbon connector to the display. My wife's Palm IIIxe experienced short battery life and flaky operation. I noticed it only acted that way when the metal stylus was in its slot. Found out the insulation on a couple of conductors in the LCD's input ribbon cable was worn away by the stylus. The stylus shorted across the wires. Easy fix: bend the ribbon cable away from the stylus.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    Fudged Up Beyond All Recognition
    ^
    |
    |
    clean version

    (ED is past tense :-D )
  • apollo_11apollo_11 Member Posts: 3
    Hi-

    Has anyone encountered this problem?
    I've got a 2000 ES Protege with 35,000 miles and the overdrive (O/D) light started blinking. The dealership which I had it towed to did not really find any problems. They topped off the tranny fluid (the level seemed okay when I checked it...)
    but the problem still occurred.

    I've had it come on 3 times within the span of 2 days. The only commonality was that these were long trips (several hundred miles) on warm days.

    Am I going to have a dead tranny soon?

    Thanks
    -Doug
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    Am I going to have a dead tranny soon?
    -Doug


    Doug, my wife's Mazda PRO-ES had her Auto Tranny replaced under warranty at about 31,500 miles. She had just had her 30,000 mile service done about 7 weeks prior to the tranny failure. Some kind of solenoid switch in the tranny crapped out? Mazda paid for a loaner car for 3 days and all associated repair costs.

    1.) First the (O/D) light started blinking.
    However, it would stop flashing after a bit.

    2.) After about a week the (O/D) light stayed on non-
    stop. At that point, we had the Mazda Dealer
    service the car. They claimed, they pulled a
    code; indicating the fuel cap was loose? Yea
    right! BTW, did you know pigs can fly. LOL!
    They reset the code and said, A..M..F!

    3.) The next day the (O/D) light started blinking
    and the check engine light came on. Her dash
    display looked like a X-mas tree! Back to
    the Mazda Dealer and Mazda North America
    said; "put in a new tranny Mr. Service Mgr."
    No problems since then. BTW, we love our
    2000 Mazda Protege ES's!

    Doug, your car is still under warranty. Stay cool and make your Mazda Dealer fully under stands all your concerns.

    -love train
  • rbrooks3rbrooks3 Member Posts: 174
    My wife's '00 MPV had the same problem. but, her display would display weird symbols too. When we took it to Mazda as it was under warranty, they replaced the unit. I don't know if you are still under warranty or not. If I tapped the display everything was fine. It also seemed to happen far more often when the car was cold as opposed to when after we had the heater running for a while and got the interior warmed.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    ... Yet another reason I'm glad I kept it simple (and fun) and bought a 5-speed.

    (And I'm also glad we extended the warranty on my wife's new AUTOMATIC Protege5 to 6 years/100K miles!!!)

    Nice to hear your tranny problem is reaching "distant past" status ... and that it didn't ruin your high opinion of your car!

    Meade
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Make sure your shift lever is in gear. If the lever is slightly out of gear, the range sensor(tells the control module what gear you have selected) will not match the physical gear you have selected and it errors. I have done this on my MPV and while it's not easy to set it between positive clicks, it can be done.

    I hope that made sense. :)
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Thanks for the info. Actually, I'm still under warranty....TODAY is the day I first got my Pro (exactly 1 year ago!!!), so I'm saying TODAY is offically my Pro's B-day!!!! :D
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Happy birthday to your car!

    Are you going to bake it a cake?

    :P
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    My Pro's already got his wash and engine bay cleaning. I'd love to clean him up some more, but our City just went on a voluntary water restriction :(

    Also, I have to fix up some cable runs in my new house so no time tonight either. Oh well...how about YOU bake me a cake and send it up to Canada? :D

    Umm...to make this on topic...My HU is getting worse. Pressing down sometimes doesn't work now and it stays screwed up longer now. D'oh! I'm gonna take it to the dealer as soon as I get a chance though.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Someone ELSE whose Protege is MALE!

    Meade
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    Meade, in the past, I believed extended warranties had little value, if you choose your new vehicle wisely. However, I've come to realize extended warranties (basically a long term service contracts) are a good thing. Now, that I have a child, a large mortgage and such, they make good sense. Yes, I do really love my pair of PRO-ES's! :-)

    -love train
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    In my humble opinion, as long as you're planning to keep the car for at least five years or 100,000 miles, which I am (Paul, this obviously doesn't apply to you, hee hee), spending $800 to $1,000 for an extended service contract/warranty will pay for itself. When you consider MOST cars will lose an alternator, a water pump, or some other component in 100,000 miles, plus any other things that might crop up, it's money you're probably going to spend anyway -- and you know up front how much you'll be spending. The thing it eases my mind about is LABOR charges! I think comparatively few of us have the tools in our tool sheds to replace an alternator (I tried once; retensioning that belt was a real fiasco), so taking the car to the shop for a new alternator will set you back a couple hundred bucks right there.

    Plus, using the extended warranty, you assure your car gets Mazda parts -- which have warranties themselves -- when it does have a problem. (As opposed to if you had a problem at 60,000 miles and went shopping for the cheapest part you could find, installed by some mechanic who's never TOUCHED a Protege before ...)

    And, if you DO sell the car before that warranty expires, it's one heck of a selling tool ... how many people do you know who put cars in the classifieds with, say, 75,000 miles on them, and are able to advertize, "25,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty?"

    But, just as you say, it's real peace of mind when you've got a family, a new baby, a big ol' mortgage, etc. What is it Forrest Gump said ... "you know, one less thing ..."

    Meade
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