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Mazda Protege Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • gandrigogandrigo Member Posts: 87
    99 protege 1.6L
    My car is headed into the shop tomorrow to have the control links from the front sway bar changed for a second time. the first set lasted 50000km, the second less than 20000km. the first time I had them changed the service rep told me this was a common occurrence. While still under warranty this is more of a hassle than anything else, but ultimately I fear paying for these things on a yearly basis. Clearly there is a flaw in the design, or something else is wrong with the front end causing premature failure. I do corner aggressively, but isn't that part of the reason for getting a Protege? Has anyone else experienced this problem? Any insight or advice would be appreciated
    thanks
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    never heard of this problem with anybody on either of the board I frequent, edmunds bieng one.
  • rogerb7rogerb7 Member Posts: 13
    I too have bucking problems, but only when engaging the clutch from a stopped position into 1st gear. I have an 01 ES, never had this occur with many other manual shift cars I've owned over the years. It goes away after engine warms up but is annoying.

    Does anyone know for sure if there is a TSB on this problem? Is the dealer obligated to tell you? I checked the NHTSA website but couldn't find one for this problem.

    FYI, it's http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm

    Also on a long trip after a/c was running for about 8 hours, it air was not as cool. After several hours should it be turned off for a while?
  • gandalf17gandalf17 Member Posts: 348
    Hi everyone. It seems I may be having my first Pro related problem. My car is a 2000 ES, 5-speed, with 74,500 kilometres. The car has been problem free to date, except for recently.

    Here is what is happening. Essentially, my idle appears to be sticking sporadically, both while in gear and if the car is in neutral. For instance, if I am cruising at 60km an hour and take my foot off the gas, the engine will start to brake itself slowly, but when it hit's between 1,500 and 2,000rpm, the idle sticks and the engine stops braking itself. The affected idle seems to be in the 1500rpm to 200rpm range. I have also been able to simulate this problem by placing the car in neutral and slowly hitting the accelerator to about 1,750rpm and then removing the throttle. The idle will come back down to about 1,500rpm and then stay stuck in that position as opposed to coming back down to 700rpm which is the usual engine idle speed. I can "unstick" the idle in this state by tapping the accelerator quickly causing a brief rpm spike which causes it to drop back to 700rpm.

    Please also note that if I brake while in gear, the idle does not stick and will come back down as per the engine speed. However, I do notice and feel the extra effort on the brakes since the engine is not, in effect, assisting the braking as it normally would.

    I have also noticed that the engine performance is a little sluggish also. Not horribly so, but my wife and I both notice the difference. This problem is occurring when the engine is cold or warmed up and the check engine light has not come on and my engine temp is running the same as always.

    So, my question is whether anyone has experienced this before with their Pro? Or, might know if this relates to any recalls or TSB's, or just has an idea what might be causing this based on mechanical knowledge.

    All input/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Tim
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Mine acts like this when I have my air conditioning (or defroster, which uses the a/c compressor) on. But it's closer to the lower end of your rpm scale, and after a few seconds at a stop, it returns to normal idle rpm on its own. But I can make it return early by tapping the accelerator.

    Meade
  • gandalf17gandalf17 Member Posts: 348
    Hey!!! Actually, it has been happening with the AC off. I too have a similiar thing that happens with the AC. Usually it sticks a tad and it tends to add about 100rpm more at idle so that she is running about 800rpm as opposed to 700rpm. This occurrence is pretty normal as AC systems put a lot of drain on small displacement 4 bangers. You would lose engine performance and have quite the engine lag.

    Oddly, what I am encountering is very similiar to the AC situation. I first noticed it when my wife and I had to drive downtown a few days ago and were stuck in traffic for an hour. The whole time we were basically in first and second gear. It was after this that I noted a problem.

    We took the Pro into work today and of course, she ran perfectly. I was planning to take it into the dealer today too, but I would like to be able to replicate the problem.

    Question: Could this be at all related to the MAS (Mass Airflow Sensor) and was there a recall on the MAS with the 1.8L? I know there was for the 1.6L, but thought I remembered someone mentioning a recall on the 1.8L.

    Thanks Meade.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I don't recall (pun intended, naturally) seeing anything about a MAF sensor concern with our 1.8s, nor has mine given me any trouble in just shy of 60,000 miles. But there was a recall on our ignition coil module. Mine wasn't giving me any trouble, but I had it done anyway. Only took about an hour.

    To date no one has told me WHY the module was recalled, so I have no idea whether that could have any bearing on what you're experiencing.

    Have you had yours replaced?

    Meade
  • gandalf17gandalf17 Member Posts: 348
    really love a good punn. Nice one. :)

    Like you, I did have the ignition coil replaced and like your Pro, ours did not have any of the symptoms associated with the recall.

    I decided not to go to the dealership today and will see if this was an isolated incident, or the precursor to something more sinister. Obviously, I would like to be able to replicate the problem, or have the engine demonstrate the sluggishness when i turn it over to the dealer to look at...
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Sounds like an electrical, not mechanical, issue to me. It may be the MAS, but have you tried resetting your ECU by disconnecting the battery from it for over 10s? If those aren't the culprits, there are a lot of sensors that may be causing your ECU to decide to keep the engine speed up. For instance, your O2 sensor may cause the engine to run fast to heat up the catalytic converter faster etc. I'd pay your local TRUSTWORTHY service shop to diagnose the problem. Electrical problems can be a pain to trace.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Hmm. Never had a problem with mine. I corner aggressively sometimes, but not constantly. The Pro is fun to tackle curves with, but it's still not a racing car.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    did one determine that the front control arms are shot?
    what are the symptoms?
  • rogerb7rogerb7 Member Posts: 13
    Fyi, I took our 01 ES to the dealer this am for other work, and mentioned the clutch bucking. Service rep said he was not aware of any TSB on the Pro for this problem altho there is for a different Mazda car (don't recall which one, sorry.)

    Got a phone call a few hours later, saying there is indeed a TSB for the Pro and a part is on order to fix this problem. Fortunately the car is still under warranty.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    The other car is the Miata. My 2001 ES showed early signs of this before I sold it. It never happened freqently enough to bother me enough to get it fixed.
  • gandrigogandrigo Member Posts: 87
    You can tell the control link is shot by the annoying clunking coming from the front suspension when going over bumps as well as the excessive roll in corners. Alternatively climb under the car and grab the link (thin rod connecting the torsion bar to the shock tower. If you can rotate the link about its longitudinal axis, i.e clockwise or counterclockwise rotation if you were to look at it from the top of the car, it is shot. A functional control link should not move (The technician tests it by applying torque with a 3 foot pry-bar). My dealer maintains he has seen them fail often, and sooner than mine but that there is no recall or TSB. They are not covered under the major component warranty. Seems I'm the only one here.
    For those of you owning post 2001 proteges, there was a redesign and thus you have little to fear.
    cheers
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    ... as my mechanic performed that test on my 2000 ES's control links about a month ago during a brake job. They were nice and solid. The car has 59,000 miles on it and rolled off the line in March 2000.

    Meade
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Checked Engine. Engine was still there.

    Wondered what was wrong.
    Took it to the dealer.
    Dealer replaced MAF and Catalytic convertor(1st tin can, or so he said).

    Car: 1999 Protege ES.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I would suppose you're past the end of the 3/50 warranty, right? How much did you pay?

    Meade
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    bumper to bumper warranty from none other than Mazda Itself, if u remember, with $0 deductible.

    Nothing out of my pocket. They even gave me a loaner 2003 dx for 3 days.
  • kaiserheadkaiserhead Member Posts: 166
    I had a strange incident today, I was downshifting (manual transmission) into third gear and the car jerked twice like it was about to stall, it kept going but the check engine light stayed on. The car drove normally for the rest of the drive home. After the car rested for about an hour, I started it two time, it ran normally, but the check engine light stayed on, after a third start the light went off. Any thoughts on the cause? I'm suspecting bad spark plug wires, bad gas, or moisture?????

    BTW: 2000 1.6L manual transmission.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    There should be a diagnostic trouble code stored in the engine control computer, relating to the misfire. A scanner is required to retrieve the code and identify which circuit had a problem.
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    You probably read about my incident (1.5L 96). I had the same thing happening: Minding my own business at a stop, took off, and the car started jerking and choking on me. In my case it was pretty bad, and if I drove it in high gear it would mis-fire all over the place. I had to downshift to 2nd gear and gun it to get out of it. My problem was cables/plugs. Actually, plugs, which destroyed the cables. However, I initially changed cables only (did not have time to do plugs also), and it solved the problem, although I could still feel an occasional mis-fire here and there. Changed the plugs, rotor, and rotor button a couple of weeks later, and its fine. The plugs I took out were the original plugs at 60K miles, the color was good, but the gap was 0.055" (it is supposed to be 0.04"). No wonder the wires got beat.

    Another thing I noticed after doing this: City millage went from 28 to 31! In any case, how many miles you have in your 2000. The plug wires go at around 50/60K. The code I got was P0300, random/multiple mis-fire. The light blinked during the 'seizures', then stayed on after I changed the cables, and then just died out after several 'drive cycles'. I did not reset the codes when I read them, I just allowed the computer to lick its wounds...

    G.
  • kaiserheadkaiserhead Member Posts: 166
    Thanks for the help, I'm suspecting cables, spark plugs were done about a year ago at the 30k service. I took the car out last night to see if it would recreate the problem, it didn't. Usually this wouldn't bother me until the problem became more frequent, but I'm driving from Miami to Toronto in three weeks and I don't want any trouble in the back country of Tennesee.

    BTW, the car has 88,000kms, or 54,600 miles.
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    Howdy,

    Right after I wrote about plugs and wires, I noticed my 96 Protege was pinging with hard acceleration under load (like steping on the gas on 3rd/4th gear going up hill). It is not particularly bad, and only happens when you go a bit over the normal range for the gear (say, 40 MPH in 3rd, 50 MPH in 4th - Don't have a tachometer, so no idea what RPM that translates to).

    In any case, I only noticed yesterday and today. As I mentioned before, plugs, wires, cap, and rotor were changed a couple of weeks ago, and it did not ping then. Only thing I can think of is bad gas (I filled up in a different gas station, although same chain - Sunoco - last Monday), or it is related to the temperature (we hit 90+ yesterday and today in Philly), or the ECU is adjusting to the new plugs, wires, etc., and took a wrong turn somewhere while adjusting the timming.

    Any ideas? I will do the obvious, which is fill up in my regular gas station next time, and if that does not cure it switch to Premium (93), as I currently use 89 (this car should work OK with 87, though...). If that fails, I'll check the base timming. But any other suggestions (top engine cleaner, like Techron) would be apreciated.

    TIA,

    G.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Make sure they haven't closed up any, or deposits aren't closing the gaps. Check the resistance in the plugs and wires too.
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    Mazdafun,

    I did check that. They are fine at 0.044 inches. The resistance in the wires is ~450 ohms/feet (an average of all wires, but they are all similar...).

    It did not ping at all yesterday afternoon. I had parked the car in the shade and when I left work it was cooler (a chilly 78...). Plus it did not do it with the new plugs/wires/cap/rotor for almost two weeks, but started doing it when it got really hot. I guess that may be the problem here, but I'll keep poking...

    G.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Check the EGR valve, and make sure coolant temp is ok.
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    I will look into that if the switch to premium (93) does not remedy the problem. A friend of mine had a theory that did not sound that off the wall. His reasoning follows:

    As the gap in your plugs widens, you start getting more and more carbon deposits on the piston heads. Since the plug gap is wider, you get no pinging. Now, right after you install new plugs with a narrower gap, you still have carbon accumulation, and you may start hearing pinging because of that. He suggested I do a carbon cleaning (something about pumping top engine cleaner through one of the vacuum lines, etc., etc.).

    I've seen some descriptions of this process (one of them from a Mazda TSB related to pinging), but it looks like a hairy operation: Take this pipe, unplug it, put an 'orifice' here (I thought an orifice was a hole...), feed TEC at a rate of such-and-such ounces per minute, turn around, stand on one foot, clap three times while pressing the throtle half way, then rev the engine to so-many RMP while parying to the Mazda Gods, etc., etc., etc. Is this a normal procedure?

    G.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Yes. This is a normal procedure to remove pinging/knocking due to carbon deposits. I have used it oh-so-many times on my 2-stroke engines.

    In those 2-stroke engines, We used to open up the cylinder head and scrape the carbon deposits off the head and the piston head, with whatever can scrape it off.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Actually, Mazda is the name of a Zorastrian God "Ahura Mazda", God of Fire IIRC.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    ...drive at high revs on the freeway for a while to burn off the carbon deposits. I recall hearing this called an "Italian tune-up" because it's used a lot on Italian makes (engines not run hot enough, so carbon deposits formed).

    Worth a try anyway.
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    I will look into the carbon cleaning.

    I can also say that 'Italian tune-ups', or as I call it, 'long-triping' the car, works wonders. I had an 85 GLC with a 4spd manual in college. After months of short trips around the small college town in Texas (a 'bad' commute was 15 minutes...), it would hessitate and run bad. We drove it for 250+ miles on the freeway to Houston, in which the little guy barely made 65/70 MPH. I was probably doing 4000+ RPM all the way to and from Houston. After that, it would idle smooth and run great. 'You burn the crap on the plugs', said the guy that used to help me fix the car, and he was right...

    G.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    My usual commute is all local roads and brief. With all the long-distance highway trips (3+ hours each direction) I've been making the last month, my fuel economy has actually risen by 2mpg to the low 30s (on my usual routine, not the highway trips), and the engine does seem to run more smoothly, not that it ever got rough.

    The short trips do wear down a car engine faster, since the engine spends so little of its run time in its optimal heat range.
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    This one is for Alcan or Opatience, although others may also have good answers...

    Can an OBD-II scantool be used to adjust timming instead of a strobe light? Here's my reasoning. There are two timming 'settings' on the Protege's Haynes/Chilton manuals. One is with the diagnostic's box 'TEN' connector grounded, which I guess leaves the computer out of the equation entirely, and should be TDC. The other one, without grounding the TEN pin, which I guess lets the computer do whatever it pleases, which should be 9 to 11 BTDC.

    So I'm thinking... Can I plug my scantool, monitor the timming advance on the laptop, and move the distributor until I get 10 BTCD, or should I short TEN to GND and use a strobe light?

    Thanks!

    G.
  • tomcivilettitomciviletti Member Posts: 207
    Too low octane can lead to pinging. On the other hand, too high octane causes more carbon deposition, which can lead to pinging.
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    When I burn WAV music files to a CD-Data disk and play the resulting disk on my 2002 Mazda Protege (Panasonic?) CD player, I get momentary sound drop-outs every 5 or 6 minutes of running time (while car is stationary, and the drop-outs occur at the same place on the disk every time). I don’t get drop-outs when I play the same disk on various other cars’ CD players. I don’t get drop-outs when I play the same disk on my 10-years old Panasonic “in-house” CD player. And, most surprising, I don't get drop-outs on the Protege player if I burn music files onto a CD-R Music disk! Does anyone else have this problem? I am afraid that my dealer may not look on this as a fixable warranty problem in that CD-R media compatabilty issues are apparently legend.
  • doublesixdoublesix Member Posts: 29
    A nail poked through one of the tires over the weekend. Is this a do-it-yourself job? If so, what should I buy to get the job done? Or is it better to have it done in a tire shop?

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Don't try to fix this yourself. Take it to a tire shop. They can tell you how much damage was done and if it's reparable (it may not be, depending on the size of the nail and its trajectory through your tread). Any sidewall damage means a new tire. If you need a new tire, I'd replace the pair (both fronts or both rears) to minimize handling variance between tires.
  • doublesixdoublesix Member Posts: 29
    You were totally right. I brought the tire to a tire shop, and it turned out that the hole was too close to the sidewall and the damage was not reparable. So I had to get a new tire (the other three tires are relatively new).
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I think that "sidewall damage is not repairable" quip is just that -- a quip.

    Think about it. They say your sidewall flexes too much to hold a repair. Hmmm, how about all that flexing the tread does when you turn? Keep in mind that as far as tires go, the compound they use to repair the rubber does the same type of thing PVC joint compound does to PVC pipes. It's not just "glue;" it actually bonds the rubber. It's tough as hell.

    Case in point:

    I had a hole right where the tread meets the sidewall in one of the Toyos I had on my 1992 Protege back in 1993. The tire shop guy agreed to patch it just so I could get home, but said he couldn't guarantee the patch would hold because "sidewall holes are not repairable."

    I drove another 40,000 miles on that tire.

    Hmmm.

    Meade
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    There are fewer plies, none of which are metal.

    It's not that they're not potentially reparable. It's that they're more likely to fail due to the more flexible nature of the sidewall, and they tend to fail catastrophically.

    If a sidewall blows, it's pretty bad. I've watched it happen a couple times on the road. The sidewall practically disintegrated and the tread got flung off (as a donut).
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    The companies that make the patches (which are not tire companies) say that they are not to be used for sidewall repairs. Yes they do vulcanize to the tire rubber but if a sidewall belt is damaged, it's far more likely to come undone. I wouldn't let my kids ride on a patched sidewall.
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    I think i narrowed down my metallic buzz noise (I posted about this before...) to glazed belts. Both the AC/PS and Alt/Water Pump belts are original (~60K miles), and have shinny patches. Plus, the other day I could make the noise come and go by steping on or off the accelerator.

    Now, quick question. My NAPA store carries Gates belts, which I heard are good. These are the OEM design. In an AutoZone store I saw the 'poly-cog' GatorBacks, which are a different design, claim to be superior to 'regular' ribbed belts, and are ~50% more expensive. Which brand would you go with? I think Gates should be fine, shouldn't them?

    Also, no more pinging after I switched back to my 'regular' gas station, still using 89 gas...

    G.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Meade
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    Meade,

    I know the manual says 87. However, my wife's 626 also says regular, and even after a pretty extensive tune-up, it would ping ocassionally on 87. I've been using 89 on the 626, and that probably made me use 89 on the Protege. Never really tried to use 87 on it...

    G.
  • oskwioskwi Member Posts: 88
    I am under the impression that most everyone is using 87 and it's working fine? Does anyone "treat" their car with anything higher or is it unnecessary? I know the 91+ octanes can be detrimental to the foreign four cylinders. Let me know...
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    I have only used 87 in my 01 PRO ES and INSIST that only 87 is being fed to it. The car has just under 62.000kms in almost 2yrs and is flawless :)

    Dinu
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    2000 ES, 58,000 miles, 87 octane only. No pings, no drips, no errors.

    Meade
  • irishalchemistirishalchemist Member Posts: 152
    We could talk about gas for ages. Anyone has advice regarding Gates vs. Goodyear belts? Anyone tried them?

    G.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I don't think any of us (most of us are 1999 on owners here) have changed our belts yet. But my 60K service is coming up; I'll let you know then.

    BTW, what does Mazda use?

    Meade
  • kaiserheadkaiserhead Member Posts: 166
    I took the Protege (2000 SE 1.6L, 55,000 miles) to the dealer today and they pulled the code from the hesitation incident a few weeks ago. Apparently the throttle sensor was showing intermittent failure and that's what caused the hesitation. They replaced it for $335 since the car is no longer covered by the warrantee. Has anyone had a similar problem? I don't think the sensor is limited to that specific engine.
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