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Comments
I'm still betting on at least one of your tire/wheels being noticeably out of round or not straight enough. You said they already replaced one bad wheel - my guess is that there was more than one, but having found a really bad one, they declared victory and let it go at that. The dealer's followup plan makes sense - at least you now have their full attention.
i hope the dealer will just give me a whole new set of wheels with michelins on them, lol.
I presume that means you have an LX V6 or a DX 4 - the rest of the model line comes with Michelins.
I assume that also means you have steel wheels, not alloys - that also helps explain the wheel runout problems - these are extremely rare with the Honda OEM alloys, but the stamped steel wheels are a lot easier to bend.
More than ever, I am convinced that your problem is a relatively simple one, if you can just get a caring tire/wheel person to spend some careful time looking at the roundness and wobble of each of the tire/wheels. I know you have a bad one.
i have the 5-spoke 15 in. kind alloy wheel which they've already replaced one of them.
the thing is, when i bought it, i carefully test drove and checked everything, it was perfect, i couldn't find anything that warned me of potential problems, when i test drove i brought the car up to 90mph and it was smooth as silk. i went home and lived as the happiest guy on earth for 2 days then on the 3rd the vibration appeared, that's when my so-far 9 months and 16,000 miles chase for a mechanical-problem-free car began, i understand it takes a few times for the service dept to find out exactly what's wrong and find the cure, but GOD I HATED IT! and that's while listening to my friend with the 94 accord saying "i think i have the most reliable product honda's ever produced, lol!" he's a nice guy though.
well, whatever they are going to do, i just sincerely wish that they fix the problem ASAP. good luck to myself.
can we trade? haha, just kidding.
I'd say take the time to drive to the dealer and pick up a couple of jugs.
Good Luck
i think i was still wearing an ugly face when he came out because he lifted his eyebrows a little as he saw me, but he showed a lot of care, asking me what was wrong (knowing that ugly face means something is wrong), i explained what happened to him again and when i finished he said "hey, don't worry, i'm here, let's go for a ride", so we went on a ride, as soon as we went on the freeway he said "i know exactly what you are talking about, i feel it, but it's a road feel, let me show you.", so we went back to the dealer, as we got out of the car he said "go pick another 4cyl coupe, when you find it, get the number on the tag and come back, i'll be waiting in the sales room."
so i went out there and found myself an exact same car (even the color's the same), i went back to him, he got the key and we went on for another ride, here's the amazing part.
as soon as he started the engine, i heard a much higher engine whinning than my car, then once we got going, the engine noise was way more noticeable than my car, killing the exaust note which is music, and the transmission has much softer shifts while mine has strong and solid shifts, onto the freeway now, at 55mph the "road feel" is already very obvious, at 70mph it feels like my car going at 90mph, and this is a brand new car with 2 miles on it, although the suspension feels a little more stiff which i like, but hell, my car's a whole lot better than this one. on our way back, he explained to me "the bent wheel was a real problem, but this is just the road feel, a characteristic of this car. the reason you thought it was perfect when you test drove is because you didn't notice it, then when you started driving everyday you began noticing it, why do i know this? because i'm the kind of guy that does the same thing."
i'm the guy that seeks for an answer, i'm sick of all those "there's nothing wrong" comments, it doesn't take much time for them to explain to me why "there's nothing wrong" but nobody ever did that, even when i asked. but the service manager knew exactly what i wanted and took care of it. i think he's a really nice guy and a very successful service manager =P, also he should be a pretty great father (he has a son my age with a new civic si, and his only wish is for his son to keep talking to him, lol!)
thanks for all the support and advice, appreciated it.
special thanks goes to auburn63, jrct9454, and isellhondas.
i think i understand isell's opinions a lot better now, when you see a thousand "piece of chunk" every month, you do see a lot more, and thanks to him because of his first time in believing in my complain.
if you'll excuse me now, i have to call my friend to tell him that he doesn't have the best product honda's every produced anymore, because i do!
PS. it's funny how my opinions totally changed in an hour. =P
And a final note: when you can spend the money [about $400-500], I think you will be amazed how much better the car will feel with a new set of Michelin X-Ones on it. I personally was a bit stunned by the negative difference I perceived between our '01 EX v6 with Michelin MXV4s [smooth and stable at all speeds, if a bit coarse with the road noise] and an LX V6 with Bridgestones [much more vibration, rougher ride, no perceptible benefit in any area except they were cheaper for Honda to buy]. How you wound up with an EX that had Bridgestones as OEM is still a mystery to me, but I can assure you that you will think you've bought a much better car when you can get those tires replaced with touring Michelins.
Which dealer have you been using, by the way?
the dealer is El Cerrito Honda in CA, it's in the east bay, next to highway 80.
But now, other owners will probably listen for this "click" the next time they get into their Accord. If there is, in fact, a "click" they may jump to the conclusion that something horrible is wrong.
Another good example is the opinion of some folks regarding the Michelin MXV4 tires. I have read here that some people think they are horrible. I happen to think mine are just fine. After 45,000 miles, they still look almost new. I've had zero traction problems with them either in spite of Seattle's rainfall.
But, are there better tires? No doubt!
Hopefully, we are smart enough to filter through some of this stuff...
my friend's accord starting making a lot of noise about 3 months ago when braking, he even took it to the shop for an inspection, but they found nothng wrong, later i remembered that he hadn't washed his car at all for 4 or 5 months, so i kind of "washed" his brake rotors, i used the wheel cleaner i used to clean rims, i sprayed them on the rotors, let it stay for a few minutes then spray it off with water, for about a total of 3 times. after that everything was fine, no more noise.
but that's just what i did, i don't know if it would be harmful to the rotors and pads or anything like that. do it at your own risk.
after reading your post i thought about it and decided to starting shopping for new tires, these bridgestones aren't worth too much anyways so i might just get a new set of michelins and be done with it.
here comes my question, you mentioned the Michelin X-Ones, i checked it out at tirerack.com and it seems like they are winter tires, i live in the bay area and we don't get any snow here although it does rain a lot throughout the winter. under these conditions, would you recommend the x-ones over the mxv4 plus VRs? because i know if i get MXV4, i'll go for top of the line VRs.
the x-ones certainly seem a lot cheaper than the MXV4 plus VRs, but they are only rated TR and i have no experience with them so i don't know if they are better than the MXV4s.
again, i barely know anything about the comparison between these 2 tires, so if you can help me out, if would be great.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/hpas.jsp
Yes, they are indeed T-rated; the MXV4s on the Accords are H-rated for 4 cyl cars, and V-rated for 6 cyl cars. In practical terms, it makes no difference, unless you plan to exceed 120 mph and SUSTAIN THAT SPEED FOR MORE THAN 30 MINUTES.
X-Ones will ride better, be quieter, and last longer than MXV4s. However, the latter will handle better, and as noted, are better suited to extremely high-speed driving. Both will be better suited to the car than the Bridgestones you have, which are prone to flat-spotting, and as you have already discovered, tend to ride like rocks.
Since vibrations and ride quality were an issue, I didn't bother to include things like the tires mentioned in post 2879, since these are designed for handling first, and everything else, including wear, next. The stiffer carcass of a pure performance tire is achieved with materials that make the tire harder to live with on broken pavement, and will run the risk of flat-spotting if left for more than a few days without getting warmed up.
Given your problem that got this whole discussion started, you want to focus on one of the two Michelins [X-one or MXV4] - which one depends on how much of a trade-off between ride and handling you want, and how much wear you want. Properly rotated, X-Ones will go 70k miles or more [they are warranted for 80k], whereas MXV4s will last 40-50k, or a bit longer in the hands of a careful driver.
There are a gazillion tire choices out there, and like oil discussions, these debates can start to border on religious matters rather than anything more objective. To the extent you have a car with a sensitive chassis, and vibrations are the issue, you want one of these two Michelins. I promise you that the difference will be a revelation in the way the car feels in everyday driving. [If you want something for the track, there are lots of better choices.]
Sears Auto Center & Tires quoted me $630
Big O Tires quoted me $560
for Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus 195/65/15 VR
Honda of El Cerrito still hasn't returned my call yet.
Big O Tires quoted me $600 for X-Ones
i really don't think going with Honda of Oakland is a good idea, although they are the professionals.
which one should i go for?
Avoid Sears at all costs...long story. Long before their ripoff scandal hit the papers a few years ago, I personally had two ridiculously bad experiences with them, and would never send anyone to them for tires.
Of the big chains in the Bay Area, Big-O and Wheel Works have given me good results and reasonable prices.
On the other question [post 2881 above], no, these are different from Pilots. If you want a little more performance, Pilot XGTs come in both H and V ratings. The Dunlops used to head this list, but the A2 hasn't kept up with some of the newer stuff that is out there. I would never suggest Dunlop is a bad choice - in general, I rate them second after Michelin for these kinds of touring applications - but I prefer Michelins for this kind of car.
You'll get a 100 different opinions on this topic from 105 people, so I try to couch all advice about tires with the caveat that everyone thinks they are an expert. Tire Rack actually conducts track testing on their own [independent of the tire makers], and their advice is always good - but they have a bias, and it's toward performance over comfort, unless you tell the rep specifically that comfort is what matters. For someone who wants more performance for a car like the Accord, I think Pilot XGTs are a good choice...the A2s are a really economical alternative, and I would never kick them off the car the way I would certain Goodyears and Bridgestones, and most particularly, Continentals.
If road noise bothers [and this is a weakness of the Accord], then the X-Ones are to be preferred for just about everyone. HOWEVER, if you drive hard enough to be worried about MXV4s being too soft, I'm not sure A2s are going to be that much better for you - you need to look at XGTs or even MXMs [an even higher performance Pilot], or Dunlop's higher performance alternatives.
Still, I'll probably buy something different when the time comes. Just to see for myself I guess.
much better than those bridgestones, quieter, smoother and more stable at higher speeds, and most important, the vibration is gone, totally gone, and it's true, the car does drive like a different, much better car.
didn't get the x-ones because nobody had them in stock, all had to special order, got a ton of schoolwork waiting for me therefore i went with the mxv4s so i could get it done today. very happy with the new tires and the improvement they brought.
did a little research by walking around the entire parking lot of my apartment checking the tire brands on every 2001+ accords, funny, every accord bought from Oakland Honda had michelins on them and everyone from El Cerrito Honda had bridgestones, these 2 dealers are only 5 miles apart, guess it's a dealer cost-cutting thing. =P
The van still vibrates. It has steel wheels, but I just had them (tire dealer) do a runout test(or at least they said they did) and they said there's nothing wrong. I've even considered getting factory alloys, but I don't feel like I should have to spend that much mondo to get a smooth ride, if that's the problem. Now, maybe I'm expecting too much from a minivan, but there is definitely a problem somewhere. It could even be the van itself - but most all of my MPV friends say their's is fine. Wish I knew someone here who had one that I could compare like you were able to do.
BTW, the X-Ones are great tires and are a big improvement over the factory Yoko's. They're really good in the rain. The tires on my Accord need replaced soon. I was thinking about X-Ones, but I will probably go back with MXV4+'s (I can't believe I just said that!). I looked at the Dunlop Sport A2's. I'm currently checking out the Yoko Avid H4's too. However, I really do like the ride of the MXV4+. They could be a little better in the rain, a little cheaper, and wear a little longer, but they are a superb tire. The more I learn about tires, the more I come back to these.
I read that the '02 SE has the same size tire as mine and the '02 EX-V6 has 205/65-15. For 2000, I can't find any info on the tire size for the EX-V6, but I know it had bigger MXVs as well as a different wheel style - maybe the wheel was wider? Anyway, what do you think? 205/65 or 205/60? Am I misleading myself in thinking the wider tire will give me better performance over the 195/65?
if all of the above doesn't work, then i really don't know what might be wrong with your vehicle. good luck!
there's one thing though, i'm not 100% sure but that's what my friend told me, he modified his nissan 200sx by himself. he told me that getting wider tires will definitely get you better cornering stability and more stable at higher speeds, however, larger tires will suffer your off-the-line power.
that's only what i heard, just a little information for you.
Now have over 65K on this set of X-One's (had 73 on the MXV4's when I replaced them-ran over a big nail-these MXV4's still had at least 10K of wear on them and the X-One's are still superb.
The X-One's are vastly better on virtually every comparison to the MXV4's. In my first snow storm just for the hell of it to check out the control of the X-One's-put the car into a slide at 70 MPH and it was a very easy recovery. Open interstate and no other traffic. About a month ago I was in a rush and during a heavy rain storm hit a large patch of 4" deep water-hydroplaned like hell-started in a slide and once I got through the water, easily came out of the slide.
Yeah I drive too damn fast-but by pushing the driving envelope I can tell you the X-One's are superb. Had some really scarey situations with the MXV4's and only luck kept me from going [non-permissible content removed] over teakettle. So if you drive like a granny-put the cheapest tires you can find on your ride-if you want to get great performance at a reasonable price-go for the X-one's.
Hey I sell-can't wait till you replace those rags on your ride with X-One's. Really want to get your reaction-for me it was and is a totally different experience. I do not sell tires-but my life depends on them and hope others profit by my experience.
And I don't drive like a granny nor do I drive like an idiot. I got that out of my system a few years back.
cokane loves his new set of MXV4's and bburton thinks they are garbage?
Funny...still I probably will try the X ones when the time comes just to see if I can tell any difference.
I don't see how anyone could ever get 73K on a set of MXV4s, must be a typo. Even if that were the case, these tires aren't meant to last past 40K, sometimes less depending upon your driving habits. I've got 30K on mine and I'm already looking to the next set. I didn't always feel this way, but as I said before, the more I objectively learn about tires, the more I see that long tread life is not the only thing that makes a good tire. Yes, I'm a fan of the X-Ones, but I even wonder about them going the advertised distance. There's an incredible amount of heat-cycling degradation by the 30-40K mark that can make many tires unsafe from that point forward, irregardless of how much tread they have remaining. My .02 ....
HAVE A SAFE & HAPPY 4th EVERYONE!
205/60-15s will fit and will have a nearly identical rolling diameter to the OEM tires. However, expect a firmer ride, in exchange for a bit better handling [lower profile].
205/65-15s OF COURSE will fit, and without any body interference, because of course they are OEM on the V6, and this is the same body! [I'm sometimes stunned by the silliness that comes from the mouths of presumably qualified service advisors....but that's another topic...]. HOWEVER, you are going to introduce some speedometer error, because these tires will have a larger rolling diameter than the OEM size. And yes, ideally you would like to have the extra 1/2" of rim width that the 6 cyl cars have, but it is NOT crucial...the 4 cyl car's 15" wheels [with, I think, 6" width] will still be compatible with this size. [Any wider, though, and this would not be true - you'd have to get different wheels.]
As it happens, most Hondas have a 5-7% speedo error on the POSITIVE side out of the factory, so the larger tires will just about cut that to zero, or perhaps err a tiny bit on the slow side...e.g. you might be doing 71-72 mph and the speedo would show only 70. [Have to watch the mirrors more closely for the police, etc.] On the other hand, odometer readings are very, very accurate on new Hondas, so putting on the 205/65s will cause the odo to be on the low side by about 5% - i.e. the odo will say you have covered only 95 miles when in fact it is 100. This will make your fuel mileage suddenly look like it has decreased - say 22 mpg instead of 23. It will also have the effect of reducing the miles recorded for resale purposes by the same 5%.
I took charge of my mother's '91 Accord wagon when she got too old to drive. It had OEM 195/60-15s, and I wanted a better ride, so went with 195/65-15s [Mich MX4s, as it happened]. Again, all of the observations in the above paragraph applied - the larger rolling diameter resulted in a dead-on speedo [no more slop, but watch the mirrors], and an odo that was losing about 5% of all the miles covered.
I got those MX4s from Tire Rack, already mounted and balanced on identical steel wheels, delivered to the house and ready to install on the car. The old steel wheels were a mess, and the new ones were ridiculously cheap, on the order of $25 apiece as part of the package. I love these guys for this kind of service, and their website is still the absolute best to use on all kinds of tire questions. In this case, you should be able to find a table [as part of their discussion of 'plus sizing'] that shows the rolling diameter of each of the possible tire sizes, so that you can judge for yourself how much error you will introduce by varying from OEM. Of course, once you start to get REALLY wide [two or more widths more than OEM], you can very well have compatibility problems with both the car's body, and the OEM wheels, which will not be wide enough for the new size. Another thing Tire Rack does is give you some guidance on how well your stock wheels [in terms of width] will work with various tire sizes.
Long answer - sorry, but this is a specialty of mine [the tire questions], I guess because I got started as a teenage car nut in the tire business right out of high school, working for the local distributor for Firestone before I went to college. There are still a lot of myths out there about tires, and a surprisingly large number of people in the business who perpetuate these myths with their customers.
All findings with outside temperature around 83 degrees F.
40 degrees with fan on #3 and recirc on, car moving.
45 degrees with fan on #3 and recirc on, car not moving.
50 degrees with fan on #3 and outside air, car moving.
60 degrees with fan on #3 and outside air, car not moving.
The A/C definitely does not keep up with the heat on with recirculation on. Think it's time for a shot of refrigerant?
Has anyone had the rear shelf carseat anchors installed in a 97 Accord? Did the dealer charge for this? Did they do a neat job?
Has anyone done the job themselves? Difficult? TIA.