Lexus LS: Problems & Solutions

q45man · November 2003

Filter clogging [again from failure to change fluid] is very common! We see lots where some back yard mechanic has used a screw driver to punch thru the filter.......then all the crap flows and destroys the rack.

Owners don't realize hoses are destroyed from the inside out,,,,,,,then they leak.

If there were not a few design weaknesses in the LS then the dealer service departments would go broke!.......can't make it on just timing belts plugs and water pumps.......need those coolant overflow tank failures, the heater valves, the ps system, the O2 sensors, the EGR crud.........don't put those nice guys out of work by [extra and above] maintaining your car, they have families to feed.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2003

187K is a whole lotta miles. It's the time of life for a car where the owner really has to resign himself to some level of major repairs to keep the car safe and reliable. Also the time when maintenance needs to be increased twofold at least.

Things happen at the 200K mark that the engineers never planned for nor could they foresee. It's difficult to factor in age when you do product testing.

swschrad · November 2003

but that's because you can't pull over, park, and hitch a ride in an airplane. specifically, just about everything including the pretzels is put through destructive failure testing in a Frankenstein lab.

that's also one reason we aren't all flying our own helicopters to avoid the traffic jams... it's gawd-awful expensive to build things that way.

q45man · November 2003

Proper maintenance from day one [2-3 times more frequent than factory minimums], exchanging all fluids [oil every 90 days] on an annual basis is about all you can do to protect rotating systems.

Most wear starts from day one and gets significant in the first 5-15,000 miles.

We see well maintained LS400 from 1989 with over 300,000 miles and orginal racks. But they were not foolish enough to believe the "life time fluid hum bug".

You can easily exceed the 100,000 mile design life [99.99%] of systems.
Even rubber can be protected with every 90 day applications of anti-ozone sealers [tire/rubber dressing made by Wurth].

My rack has 257,000 miles.

You have to balance the $500 annual [ALL] fluid exchange cost with the potential replacement costs in the future.

isellhondas · November 2003

Can that be right?

q45man · November 2003

Well, if lack of mainteanence caused the pump and rack and a few hoses to go bad $2600 sounds like normal [dealer] pricing to me including the realignment.

You can find PREMIUM remanned racks [you will be inundiated with junky remans be careful of national chains] and pumps [?] or you can find wrecked car parts.....with new hoses plus new rack bushings from dealer. Finding a competent independent tech with Lexus experience???
Some of the [combo metal rubber] hoses cost $370.

If you can afford a $50k+ car you are expected to accept $3,000 in repairs with a smile. Part of the cache!
Wait till the AC goes out from lack of compressor oil maintenance and eats the compressor and evaporator.

Luckily these are the expensive parts as the engine, diff, DS, tranny are nearly built proof if you change the fluids often!

cal92 · November 2003

I have a 92 ls 400 and the check engine light and trac light come on sometimes. Shut off engine and they may not come on for days or may return in minutes or hours. Used your advice for codes:
"Trac": E1/Tc = 51 and "Check": E1/Te1 = 52 (response on #1011 was 25, but mine is 52 - checked it several times to be sure which number came first.) What do these codes mean??

paul29 · November 2003

The trac code 51 just tells you to refer to the engine code . In other words the trac is ok but is disabled because of an engine problem . Now the engine code 52 indicates a problem with the #1 left (driver's side) knock sensor and/or sensor circuit ( there are two sensors , left and right). The knock sensors themselves are located under the intake manifold . There is a flow chart to check this system , but may be best left with the dealer or a good shop with experience on this type of car . Intake manifold removal on these cars is an involved process , if it gets to that . Depends on your level of expertise . Good luck

cal92 · November 2003

Thanks for the information. I recall a couple of years ago, when it was in for service, the tech said there was a knock sensor indicator and he cleared it as there was nothing going on with the engine and the check engine light did not come on for some time. He did say if it was a faulty sensor, it is expensive to replace because he would have to take the intake manifold off to get to it. I do not have the expertise to do it.
Will think about it, if it continues to come on.

q45man · November 2003

When the knock sensors fail or harness fails the ecu goes into a fail safe mode [reducing and limiting the ignition advance] so the power is down along with the cruise mileage......you may notice some sluggishness on acceleration.

Most people can't tell if power is down 10-20% or if mpg drops 1-2 mpg.

smirshkahoven · November 2003

Bought this car at 100,000 miles. Now have 108,000. At around 104,000 developed an engine tick which began after about 5 minutes at idle or after driving about a mile. Only really heard the tick at idle.
Had timing belt changed, new rotors, caps, plugs, wires installed. New PCV valve, O2 sensors, valves adjusted. Ticking became a bit more pronounced, but not as sharp a tick, more muddled - about 4 times per second at idle.
Dealer and independent say try valve adjustment (again!). Done - ticking was improved (but not gone) for a hundred miles or two, but has returned.
Anybody have a clue as to the cause? It is audible now at low speed (<5 mph) as well as idle.
Anyone who can figure it out will be conferred with genius status!

vcheng · November 2003

...timing belt tensioner and idler pulleys been checked out. They may need to be replaced. How were they inspected when the belt was changed?

Secondly, have the fuel injectors been looked at?

Those are my two guesses. Good luck, and please post back.

tragens · November 2003

I have a 1997 lexus ls400 with 230 km, that is in pristine exterior and exterior condition. I have the exact same problem. It is so annoying. Mine however can be heard regardless of speed or idle if the radio is not on slightly, to cover it up. In addition, to my ears it sounds much more like a flutter near the fire wall on the passenger side then a tick from inside the motor itself. If the car is at its peak operating temperature (i always let it warm up first before i move it) the sound is slightly reduced, however only marginally. I had the vehicle serviced and lexus claims that they have no idea what im talking about. I continued to insist on the existence of the noise which they finally admitted was there and they claimed it was normal for a higher mileage automobile. I hate that response. I dont want the noise. I want it gone. I told them to fix it and they claimed to have rectified the problem. They charged me 1678.00 and the noise remained just as pronounced as before. It sounds almost like a very mild diesel engine now. There is no reduction in power or drive ability, and the engine light does not illuminate. The fluttery sound is just freaking annoying. I love the car but i find myself looking less and less forward to driving it because it feels more cheap now.

smirshkahoven · November 2003

Hi vcheng. Thanks for replying. Timing belt tensioner was replaced. Don't know about idler pulleys and injectors have not been looked at to my knowledge, but the Lexus mechanic did not mention that as a possible cause and it seems he would have. Are those (pulleys and injectors) easy to check and do you have any idea on repair costs to those items? Aside from the annoyance, would there be any harm in leaving things as-is? Would bad injectors cause any other symptoms that I might look for? The noise seems to come from the top of the engine when the hood is up but from underneath with the hood down.
Tragens, you are correct, the noise does make the engine sound a bit like a diesel. Kind of a muffled, hmph, hmph, hmph sound with a tiny tick sort of blended in. But my car sounds almost like new when first started, then the noise increases in intensity until the car is warmed up, then it doesn't change.

michael_mattox · November 2003

There is lots of harm in leaving things the way they are...YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE CAR you have already said you can't stand driving it the way it is.

I would suggest you take the car to a different Dealer, Write or Call Lexus, [non-permissible content removed] to your current dealer about paying $1600 to fix a problem that is NOT fixed or Trade the car in on a new or Newer one

You are not getting the Lexus experience you paid for when you bought the car. People with Mercedes or BMWs can make due with mechanical problems or small annoyances....Lexus people shouldn't have to.

smirshkahoven · November 2003

Hi Michael,
Don't know if you got a couple of responses confused, but I didn't say I can't stand driving my car like it is. I can stand it perfectly well if it is just a noise. If it is a noise that preceeds a catastrophic breakdown, it becomes more than a nuisance. I can't really hear the noise that much from inside the car. It's only when parking with the windows down or standing outside it with the engine running that it is noticeable (very). I would like to know what it is and so far no one seems to know.

deadair · November 2003

Where can I find a good shop manual for my 93 400 LS? The dealer wants $200 for the manual the mechanic uses -it would take an aero space engineer to figure that one out. The parts guy says Haynes is good, but with I am unable to find one. With the high cost of maintenance - $1,600 for alternator and power steering pump, I would like to try something on my own.

jeffmust2 · November 2003

eom

deadair · November 2003

What are the two leads that you need to jump in the diagonstic box when you have a check engine light (take to dealer) on a 93 400ls?

paul29 · November 2003

Do not make a mistake with the following . Turn ignition switch on and then connect terminals TE1 and E1 , any codes stored will be displayed in the form of blinks on the check engine light . These terminals are under the dash (left side) at the TDCL connector or much easier accessed at the check connector on the left side of the engine intake manifold (drivers side) it is a small grey box. The terminal positions are indicated on a diagram under the grey cover .

wood142 · December 2003

I posted this note on another forum ,but want to do so here also.The amber running light lens that is in the bumper on the right side(passenger side) of my recently purchased 2000 LS400 is broken and I dont see how I can gain access to change it...NO screwholes are apparent,so would appreciate any help/suggestions/comments on how to change the lens.

edinphila · December 2003

Go to www.irontoad.com. That's where I went for the manuals for my 93 LS400. Irontoad is actually Thompson Lexus in Doylestown, PA. They are very helpful on the phone, too.

wood142 · December 2003

Thanks for the referral to Thompson Lexus in Doy-
lestown,Pa.Very helpful and courteous on the phone.Got back to me in a reasonable time to answer my email query about several items related to my Lexus.Many Thanks.

joe455 · December 2003

Hi everyone I am new to the board. I am looking to replace my nissan. I found a 1991 LS 400 with 60,000 miles for $10,900. I don't know much about these cars, is the a good price?. What are some problem areas I should be aware of? Any advice would be appreciated very much.
thanks,
joe455

jeffmust2 · December 2003

That's a little high for a 12-13 yr old LS but it does have very low miles.

At 60k miles, it could be ready for a rather expensive service appt at the dealer. Find out if that 60k service has already been done and by whom.

Also, Lexus has a great tracking system by VIN on all their vehicles if owners have them serviced at dealerships. Give the VIN to your local Lex dealer and ask for a service history print out.

If these cars have not been serviced on a regular basis by trained techs you could be looking at major problems even with the low miles.

good luck!

wwest · December 2003

This summer I bought a 92 LS for 6500 with 153k miles. The owner had JUST replaced the timing belt and water pump. These are the expensive items that some, most dealers, would have you believe should be replaced at 60k. The factory recommendation is actually 90k.

My other 92 is finally getting the factory anti-freeze replaced after 12 years and over 100k miles. These are extremely reliable cars and oil and filter(s) replacements every 7500 miles will easily get you to 100k.

If the 92 is in stellar sharp its probably worth the price.

q45man · December 2003

As with any 13 year old lux car be prepared to change lots of worn out rubber isolated things.

Check closely that the mileage has not been rolled back since one would expect 130-190k for this year car.

This car sold new for $38k msrp [in 1991 dollars][what would be $60k today]........with "REAL" LOW mileage average private party sales range from $5600 to $6400 at most..........Dealer retail might be as high as $8200-$8500 if cosmetically and mechanically PERFECT!........OUTSTANDING GRADE.

Make sure the car doesn't have air ride/shocks suspension as each one cost $900 x 4 to replace!

As with any used old lux car always reserve $3,000 in ready cash to fix the things the previous owner is hiding [why the car is being sold].

jeffmust2 · December 2003

...the sale is because the original owner is no longer breathing, lol.

wwest · December 2003

An early LS400 is such a REAL treasure that some just give them to relatives or employees to keep them nearby.

Both answers are in the affirmative so don't bother asking.

sv7887 · December 2003

Joe,
Sounds like a great car. As has been previously mentioned, be wary of mileage rollback. It might also be a good idea to have the car checked by a Lexus dealer before you purchase.

I've had a 1992 LS from new. Even though it has 87K on the clock, it's been a great car. I also have an '02 LS430, and I have to stay the original LS cars were the best ones. Nothing is better built than an original LS. I've had to replace the Timing belt, Water pump, and Power Steering pump (My fault..Didn't change the fluid). That's about it.

In other news...

The Lexus dealer figured out the source of the vibration/buzzing noise at idle..Can you imagine BOTH engine mounts were broken? (This car took a 35 MPH impact ride front side...Some fool ran a red light..) Of course this should be covered under insurance, but I'm worried about them Totalling the car. They've already allowed $5,280 in repairs. Lexus has quoted about $800 to replace both engine mounts. Is there any way to defend against them doing this? The car has 87K and is in perfect condition..

Thanks,
SV

michael_mattox · December 2003

If they have already paid you for the $5,580 you can call the adjuster or better yet your agent and ask them if it would be covered and if there is a chance they would conceder your car totalled.

If there is danger of it being totalled you can just pay the $800 yourself.

If I remember correctly this was an uninsured person that hit you so it is your company that ends up paying.

nvbanker · December 2003

If your insurance company has already plowed $6,000 into your car, they won't total it for another $800. But if you have taken the car back after repairs, they will also disallow the repair most likely, disconnecting the failure from the accident. Good luck.

bitkahuna · December 2003

If they declare the car totalled, can't you just take the payout, buy the totalled car from them (I think that's possible), get the mounts fixed and pocket the diff.?

sv7887 · December 2003

Hi All,

Thanks for all of your tips. The person who hit the car was insured by the same company. I let the Lexus dealer handle all the insurance hassles and repairs from the beginning. They've done a superb job of dealing with the insurance adjusters.

The Lexus dealer affirms that the mounts were damaged in the accident. They have serviced the car for over 11 yrs and just completed the 90K service and found no faults. I'd like to see the insurance company claim they know more than a Lexus dealer.

This whole Vibration nonsense started only after I got the car back. I've had to return to the body shop twice to get the right panel aligned correctly and a moulding painted that they forgot. I've also been back to the Lexus dealer twice to get the proper tire put back on the car, and deal with this vibration issue. I still don't see how this car passed inspection after the repairs were completed. The unpainted moulding and misaligned panel were glaringly obvious.

As you can all tell my patience is waning. This car was perfect prior to the accident. Now, it's rapidly becoming a headache. I really like this car otherwise I would have sold it by now. I don't think I'd have much luck replacing it with a 1992 LS in comparable condition, hence my hesitation.

Thanks again for your comments,
SV

nvbanker · December 2003

You are fortunate the insurance adjuster agreed on the mounts.; Probably because the dealer had the records on the car.

rd1411 · December 2003

I just purchased a 91 lexus 400ls 147,750 miles for $4800. I was wondering is it neccessary to have the deferential oil replace like you do a regular oil change

bitkahuna · December 2003

You certainly don't need to change it as often as regular oil, but maybe every 30,000 mi. isn't a bad idea. Lexus probably doesn't recommend it to be changed very often (maybe 90K?).

nvbanker · December 2003

I don't know any manufacturer who recommends it be changed undeer 90K. I certainly wouldn't expect Lexus to be the one who did.

rd1411 · December 2003

Can I take my 91 lexus to walmart and get their oil change. They use a fram filter and I would request 5w30 high milege oil. Or should I just take it to the dealer.

nvbanker · December 2003

If you don't have a problem having your oil changed by an 18 year old tweaker, in drug court with the shakes and 2 weeks experience, Wal Mart (or any other national discount chain) will be fine. But not for me.

Either the dealer or a mechanic I know touches my babies - nobody else.

sv7887 · December 2003

Hi All,
Hilarious post Nvbanker. I agree. Remember these cars listed for over $45K back in the early 1990's. It's really surprising to learn how UNqualified some of these mechanics are at these chain stores. I'd trust my LS cars only to the dealer, or perhaps a trusty independant mechanic.
The Lexus dealer here charges $44 for an oil change. I find that somewhat pricey considering the price was $24.95 only two years ago..Hmm, maybe the cost of washing and vacuuming the car doubled..hahaha..

SV

rd1411 · December 2003

Is there anything i can use to keep the underbody rubber parts in good shape free from debris....91 lexus

wwest · December 2003

My 92 LS400 hasn't been back to Lexus from one since one of those McD flippers, gofers, added the new oil without draining the old. If you think Lexus pays qualified mechanics to do routine maintainance then you need an education in economics.

rd1411 · December 2003

good one wwest...i thought lexus was full of crackheads...thats why you cant see your work performed

rd1411 · December 2003

is the power steering rack below the alternator.....the shop said i may need a rack....didnt want my alternator to go bad......i dont see any leaks in the driveway....put the fluid gets about one inch from the top low in 2-3 weeks.

rd1411 · December 2003

if you purchased all the parts for a 91 lexus 400 ls separate wil it come over 100k dollars?

rd1411 · December 2003

I purchased a 91 lexus 400ls pearl white from a car lot for $4800. The car was sent to the dealer for service at the car lot expense $237 bucks....i had a loaner car lexus rx300 for 21 days and a lexus es300 for 2 days. The problem was a cololant sensor went bad....the car would cut off in intermettence....the dealer could not diagnose the problem...i took it to a shady tree mechanic and he diagnose it

sv7887 · December 2003

Hi All,
I think the Lexus dealer service varies according to dealer. Here in MA we've got a good set of dealers with very competent mechanics. In 11 years, I've never had any issues with Lexus of Watertown. They've never missed a beat with my cars. Hence, I'm willing to pay extra for dealer service only.

SV

nvbanker · December 2003

I just don't get buying a premium car, then being chintzey on the maintenance. If you are a Wal Mart kind of guy, buy a Hyundai. They are familiar with them. (You gotta CHANGE the oil??)

rd1411 · December 2003

LEXUS TECHNICIANS ARE NOT THAT BRIGHT...IF THEY DO NOT HAVE A CODE...YOU MIGHT AS WELL FORGET GETTING YOUR CAR FIXED WITHIN A MONTH....

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