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VW Golf vs Honda Civic

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Comments

  • icabod1icabod1 Member Posts: 6
    Jason,
    I don't recall the site where I saw this, but there are a few out there that help consumers determine a "fair price" for various makes of vehicles. Every manufacturer gives its dealers different amounts of holdbacks (if you're not familiar with dealer holdbacks, there is an explanation here on the Edmunds site) and for VW, it is 2% of total MSRP. The site I saw called an additional 3% a "fair price" for a VW -- but you add 3% to the dealer's invoice price, not MSRP. Your $17,000 is then about right. Good Fahrvergnugen!
  • lckclckc Member Posts: 2
    I have never driven a diesel before...but when I saw the m.p.g. I had to give it a try. I was also hesitant about the price jump from the Honda, I mean how much difference could there really be? Ok, besides A LOT, it truly is smooooth! I'll be the first to admit I had to do my homework to prepare for my first new car since collage. (Not only because I know absolutely 0 about cars but also for some confidence at the dealerships.) Knowing what I now know about the two (thanks to everyone here, Edmund's and others) I am 90% sure I'm going with the Golf after the test drive. I recommend that you get out and do the same if you are hesitating between the two, I'm not going to have a problem eagerly waiting and saving up the extra cash!
  • jason325jason325 Member Posts: 5
    First off, thanks Dean for your reply.

    Second, I just want to share with everyone what price I got on my 2000 Golf GLS w/Auto. I figured out the invoice price is $16,557 minus the 2-3% holdback for the dealers. I went into my local VW dealer and gave them my buying price of $16,800 and stood my ground. I figured they have at least a $500 margin if they sold this car to me at this price. Not counting the $199 "processing fee". Anyways, it took about 1/2 hour to get within $150 of my price but the dealer would not come any lower. I walked out.

    Next day, they called me and agreed to $16,800. The car is a Golf GLS w/Auto.

    With tax,tags,and title, my out the door price will be around $17,500. I haven't signed so I don't have the final numbers.

    I think I got a decent deal on it. Hope this info helps others who are thinking of buying this car. I can't wait to get mine.

    Jason
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    Good work, Jason! It feels good to wrap up the sale, doesn't it?

    carlady/host
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    A new 2000 Civic DX hatchback, with $1095 dealer installed A/C, $250 dealer installed cassette deck, factory AM-FM radio, power steering (now standard on stick shift DX's!), and stick shift, is $13,960. Three Honda Dealers have offered me this car with this equipment for $12,700 plus tax and title, basically giving me the AC and tape player for free. However, for my $12,700, I would rather buy three 1997 Geo Metros. Just my opinion, but the dealer price for the AC and tape player seem high. Sure it includes labor, but it makes a $12,500 car a $14,000 car.

    Each dealer is offering the extended 7 year 100K warranty for free, but that makes me think it is free to anyone anyway.

    I would be happier with my Metros, though. I can live with manual steering and 13" tires. I also don't mind the stigma of being a Geo Metro owner because the darned cars keep going. I have 101K on my 1995 LSi and it is fine. It has been through half a dozen alternators and thanks to a truck running me off the road, I have a bent right lower control arm that eats up my right front tire every 6 weeks. The replacement part is $159.xx and the labor is prohibitive, so I would rather buy a $15 used tire every 6 weeks or so than do the work.

    Also for $13,960, you could buy a nice used 1997 Toyota Camry CE/LE or Honda Accord DX/LX and have the most bland car ever, but it will last forever.

    Your $13,960 will also purchase a three-to-five year old Volvo 850 or Audi A4, if safety is your concern.

    And one more idea, if performance and looks are your MO, you could buy a late eighties Corvette convertible.

    So a new car isn't always the best choice when a two or ten year old version of your dream car is within your reach.

    But if you WANT a Civic, buy a new one. A $14K new 2000 Civic is a much better value than a $10K used 1997 Civic.
  • priscilla1priscilla1 Member Posts: 1
    Can I find a Honda Civic DX Hatchback with power steering, ac, am/fm and an automatic for under $15,000 or am I just dreaming?
  • OttoblotOttoblot Member Posts: 1
    After much test driving, everything from Acura Integras to Honda Civics and even BMW 318Tis, the only car theat really set itself apart was the Golf with a TDI (turbo diesel) motor. What an amazing little unit. Seems like the car was designed for this engine. The base 2.0 gas engine is uninspired and the V-6, only available in GTI trim ($20+ grand), is really too much engine for that car, at least with front wheel drive. The awd V-6 Golf, if they ever offer it here in the states, would be worth looking into, but then again, we're talking well over $20 grand.
    Anyway, if you havent driven the TDI, you are missing out on one of the best kept secrets around. They are available, but hard to find, at about $16,250.
  • jason325jason325 Member Posts: 5
    Pricilla1:

    A friend of mine bought a Civic HX, which is a higher model than a DX for 15,500 out-the-door. This price included everything, tax, tags, and title. His car was automatic, a/c, am/fm/casette, power everything. Your 15,000 sounds more than reasonable.
  • compucarcompucar Member Posts: 21
    Anyone care to comment on how reliable the TDI engine is in cold weather? Does it have trouble starting? Do you need a warmer? Apprciate any comments on this engine.
    Thanks.
    GQR
  • rgoetzrgoetz Member Posts: 13
    For TDI info (cold weather & much more), check out Fred's TDI Page, http://tdi.abahn.bc.ca.

    Based on what I read in Fred's forums, I've ordered a 2000 Golf GL TDI.
  • wj27wj27 Member Posts: 6
    Hi:

    I am a potential first time VW Golf owner. I am
    a bit concerned on the reliability of VW's in general (and especially the Golf).

    My reason for this is the fact that VW only offers a 24 month/24,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty while Honda and Toyota offer an extra year of coverage. Why is this?

    Also, are parts and repairs more expensive on VW Golfs vs. Toyota (Corolla) adn Honda (Civics)?

    I also welcome any comments from VW Golf GL owners (1996-00 model years). Are you happy w/ your purchase? Have you had any problems?

    I really would like to get the Golf GL. Compared to the conservative corolla and commonplace civic, it is the only car I get "excited" about. But the above issues make me wonder if I should go for the excitement (and driving fun) of a GL or stick w/ the boring corolla and/or civic.

    Please help!
  • wj27wj27 Member Posts: 6
    I forgot to mention--I am interested in the 2000
    VW Golf GL.

    Thanks!
  • fastfocusfastfocus Member Posts: 42
    If you're concerned about reliability, buy a product with a proven track record - in other words, get a Honda. If it's not "stylish" enough, get some aftermarket wheels and tires and you're set!
  • kurtd12kurtd12 Member Posts: 3
    After reading a number of comments, I feel I must tell my story.

    I drive 30K miles a year for work. I bought my first new car, a 1998 VW Golf GL, in black. I loved it. I pined for one for years before I bought it. I read Consumer Reports, Edmond's, etc. I wanted a VW!!

    Nine months later I traded it in for a '99 Honda Civic DX. Yes, I may have took a bit of a beating - Hondas can be pricey - but I had no choice. I felt I needed reliable transportation and the VW was turning out to be pricey. Here are some problems I had with it. Keep in mind though, after all of this - I miss my VW. My Honda is boring. I'm so torn!

    My VW had switches falling off in my hand; and believe me, I babied that car. The check engine light kept going on and the dealer said this would happen every 15 to 30k miles due to the humidity. They replaced the distributor, the rotor, and the starter!!! OUCH! Had it not been under warranty it would have cost me a bundle. The dealership was VERY nice though I have to say (Concours Motors - I recommend them highly) and the repairs were quick and the parts were in stock. The check engine light kept coming on, though, and it was scaring me. After owning three Hondas which NEVER had a problem, I was concerned.

    So now I have a Honda. My Civic has NOT been without problems though people!!!!!!! Squeaky belts which were fixed after three trips to the dealership, bad fit 'n finish in the interior, stripped bolt on a hardware piece on the door which rattled something awful. Also, I have a friend that had major weather stripping problems with his Civic.

    What's the answer here? Do I miss my Golf? Hell yes - in retrospec, I should not have traded it in on what I consider to be a boring car. My decision was irrational, I think. The Golf was MUCH more fun to drive and had more features for the money. Although the fuel milage on the Civic is better, keep in mind you also have a smaller tank so you're fueling up just as often.

    The grass is always greener on the other side. I believe that my VW Golf would have served me well had I kept it; but that's easy to say now that my Honda, at 30,000 miles, has been very reliable (lately?!). But VW's are more than "point A to point B". They're a love affair. One which I miss a great deal. My Honda will be traded in for a new Golf or Beetle in three years.

    Last words (finally) - life is too short not to go with something if you REALLY love it. If that's the case and you have your eye on a VW, then who cares if you have to fix it once in a while. I wish I still had mine!
  • jtaimjtaim Member Posts: 34
    I have a '90 civic DX with manual. It now has 109K miles on it an going strong. Has a few rattles here and there, and the clutch is still working. Of course, I baby it with synthetic oil changes and a top-quality filter every 6 months. If you get one, make sure you get the paperwork showing the timing belt was already changed, required at 90K miles, I believe. And, of course, a compression test on all the cylinders to make sure it's in good condition.
  • ray67ray67 Member Posts: 1
    I have an '89 CRX Si with 140,000 miles and although it's beginning to show it's age, it still serves well as a daily driver. No major problems over the past ten years + but right now the starter won't engage and the battery's good. I don't know whether i should fix-it-up or trade it for something else
  • trouphaztrouphaz Member Posts: 25
    I keep posting the same thing whenever the topic of VW reliability comes up... so here i go again...

    VW are great cars, if you want something fun to drive and a little more stylish. Their problem is their service. If you get one without any problems, then you are set and the car will be great. If you have a problem, the dealerships will be very unhelpful in diagnosing and fixing it.

    My girlfriend has had some problems with her '98 Golf (actually one reoccuring problem), but I drive it every chance I get. I can't even tell you why I like to drive it so much, but i can't get enough of it!
  • jimjetjimjet Member Posts: 27
    As has been posted, the Civic CX Hatchback with 5 speed does not have power steering. This can be a bug-a-boo at times even for men. It was the one complaint my wife had about our '96 model. I found a cure - purely by accident. The '96 came with 13 inch wheels and was a weekness in the car's appearance. So, I ordered a set of 14 inch mag wheels with Dunlop D60A2 60 series tires from Discount Tire (found in car mags and internet). I thought that the steering / turning would be even more strenuous at very slow speeds because the contact patch with the road is greater. I was way wrong. The steering is now much lighter. My wife couldn't believe it. It must be a combination of higher pressure in the tires (mine are "normal", about 30-32 lb psi), and/or the tire's tread pattern and thickness. I'm definitely staying with the D60A2's when the current set retires. Theses tires are easily of better grade than than the OEM's at a reasonable price.
  • songsmcsongsmc Member Posts: 1
    I really wanted to buy a Golf but also like a Honda Civic DX. Which one will be bettter? I mean does Golf have more problem than a civic or the other way around.
  • trouphaztrouphaz Member Posts: 25
    I am posting this everywhere were someone may see it and care.

    '98 GOLF RADIOS (and maybe Jetta) HAVE A KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE AM RADIO AND THE TAPE PLAYER.
    there is a huge backorder on replacements

    My girlfriend's tape player just stopped working recently (she puts in a tape it says side A, then it switches to side B and then it says TAPE ERROR and pops the tape out). I took her car to VW to check this out and they said they have to change the radio and it might take a while because they have them on backorder. I asked if I could have the info on the radio to see if someone else has one in stock and he gave it to me. After checking with 3 or 4 dealers, one of them finally told me this is a known problem and there is a backorder for the entire US that may take weeks. I called VW service and they could offer no help or estimate as to how long it will take. Also, the dealerships don't seem to be very open about this problem.
  • sblumentsblument Member Posts: 1
    I have a 98 civic DX with manual trans. I considered the Golf, but thought that the Civic would

    1. last longer
    2. have fewer major maintenance problems as it ages

    and the civic's dashboard is much lower, giving a better view out the window.

    the GTI would be nice, but too expensive.

    However, that was the old Golf, the new one may be better than the Civic.
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    The 4th generation VW Golf is a real departure from the A3. If you drove an A4, I think you would have a different feel to it. I'm not saying you would have bought a Golf, just that it would be a very different ride from your previous test drive.

    The Golf and Civic seem to attract different types of drivers. And since there are so many different drivers, it's nice to know we have a choice.

    carlady/host
  • andrewinlaandrewinla Member Posts: 15
    I just drove both back to back yesterday. THe Civic was a DX so it had nothing as far as amenities. But it drove pretty good and was pretty quiet on the highway. It felt like very basic transportation though.

    The Golf on the other hand(2000 Golf GLS with auto) looked sporty and drove sporty even for an auto. It felt quite upscale for a car at that price. I drive a Miata as a daily driver and the Golf captured the sporty feel of my car but while being a heck of a lot more practical. Love the trunk space with and without the seats folded. The only problem I had was that if I go to Vegas most people are doing 90MPH easy and this car above 80MPH revs a little high and makes a bit more engine noise, but I guess you could keep it at 80MPH or listen to the radio. The dealer said $500 over invoice is OK. So I may go pick up my green Golf this weekend.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    The GLS starts at $16.8K!! This is not a fair comparison. A Civic DX hatchback with A/C is about $13.6-8K. Starts at $12.6K w/o A/C.
    I got a '97 DX htbk new with A/C for $12.5K, about $400 over dealer invoice. You can easily get a DX htbck today for around $13K with A/C.
    Of course the Golf GLS has antilock brakes and 4wheel discs, antiroll bars, 15" steel rims and cassete (what no CD?). You get what you pay for.
    The Golf handles a little better although nothing spectacular (.78g in the skidpad) but it's heavy and way underpowered with its 115hp engine.
    It weighs over 400lbs more than a Civic which gets 32-37mpg vs. 24-31 in the Golf! The Civic
    5-sp is also considerably faster due to its weight (8.7s vs. 10.4s 0-60). It depends what you 're looking for and what you can afford. There is a $3-4K difference in the 2 cars. If your commute is long like mine, I 'd say get the Civic because it will last forever, will be cheaper to maintain in the long run, and gets excellent mileage.
    I have 86K miles on mine and have only done a minor tuneup on it and replaced the front brake rotors & pad ($200 w/labor). To enhance handling, I 've upgraded the 14x5" steel rims to light 14x6" Borbet type-T alloy wheels with Dunlop D60-A2 195-60 tires after the original tires got worn out (at about 40K mi). Handling has been increased dramatically and it still has a nice smooth ride.
    I average 34-35mpg and still cruise at 80mph on the highway. With a Golf you 'll probably avg. 28mpg. With the alloy wheels I think my Civic looks better than a Golf and not as boxy.
    It all depends on what you can afford and which car appeals to you. If I were in the market for a $16-17K hatchback (GLS price range), I 'd get the Cougar V6 5-sp which stickers for about $18K.
    and have some fun at the same time.
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • compucarcompucar Member Posts: 21
    I just read somewhere that Honda is going to discontinue the Civic Hatchback. So...I guess the VW Golf wins.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    I have nothing against the Golf, I just feel that with 115hp they 're way underpowered for the money they 're asking. I can see if it were 2300-2400lbs or if it had 130-135 or so ponnies in its current configuration & price.
    But 2700+lbs? That's too heavy IMO resulting in poor gas mileage comparable to that of a big 4 or small 6cyl, & slow acceleration unbecoming a
    $16-17K car. I mean what car does 0-60 in over 10sec. these days? A Geo Metro maybe..
    I kinda like the new VW VR6 which has ample power & torque but for $23K there are a lot of other cars that come to mind like Integra GSR & Celica GT-S hatchbacks that are lighter, cost less, & get better gas mileage.
    Again, that's just my opinion because my commute to work is such that I prefer a 4cyl. car & gas mileage becomes very important. Even in my '99 Integra GSR I average 30mpg with 90-95% highway driving (the Civic is my daily driver though)
    I totally agree though that the new 4 cyl. Golfs are in a different class than a Civic not only pricewise but for the additional amenities & safety features they offer.
    I believe VW has placed the Golf in a very strategic position between the $13K basic transportation Civic hatchback and the more powerful (140hp) $19K+ Acura Integra htcbk and that 's the right place to be..
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • judasjudas Member Posts: 217
    The Celica isn't cheaper than the GTI VR6. Sure, if you compare base price to base price it's cheaper, but that's because everything is standard on the VW and everything is optional on the Celica. Base on the GTI, about 22,600. Loaded GTI, 23,200. Base Celica 21,200, tacking on enough options to get it equal to the GTI (Sunroof, leather, ABS, 16" alloys, etc) = about 24,300. Which one is cheaper? As for the GSR, it costs about 400 bucks less, and is slower. And that's all I have to say about that.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    Well if you want to get technical about things, the Celica outhandles the VW VR6, etc. etc. The GSR may be .1 or .2s slower 0-60 but it can be had for $20K or less due to incentives and stuff. I got my '99 for $19.8K and sticker was $22,550 (w/dest. charge). C&D also placed the GSR 4th ahead of the GTI GLX (5th) in their latest 7 car comparison. GSR also has slightly higher top speed and was favored in handling & shifting precision over the VW. The 7tr old GSR can still hold its own.. We can start a whole new debate that 's been discussed here over & over but I 'd rather not do that. The VW VR6 is a great car and I 'm not putting it down. I prefer performance & great gas mileage and a V6 can't give me that. And what's with the 2yr/24Kmi VW warranty? I don't think any other manufacturer offers such a low warranty.. Why don't they back up their cars with a 3yr/36K or 4/50K like Acura? I 'm not comfortable with that..
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    According to Automotive News and AutoWeek, there will not be any 2001+ Civic HB's for the US market. That leaves the Focus ZX3, and Chevy Metro (laugh) as small HB's to compete with Golfs.
  • fastfocusfastfocus Member Posts: 42
    I saw the same thing, tomcat360. Maybe this discussion should change to "Golf vs. Focus ZX3."
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    To compare the Golf and the Focus, just click here!

    carlady/host
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    That sucks, because I was planning on getting another Civic hbk around 2001-'02. I really like the room in the hatch and the 34-35mpg I 'm getting in my DX. I put at least 40K mi/yr on mine and at this rate by 2002 I 'll have about 170K mi. on it. I think it's safe to assume that I 'll never be able to get another decent new car for under $13K. I 'll probably look for a used '99 or '00 Civic htbk when the time comes. The Golf is $16k & up and avg. gas mileage is only in the mid-high 20s. As far as the Focus goes, I don't like they way it looks and don't know about its reliabily or resale value yet..
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • tmetravlertmetravler Member Posts: 14
    Don't feel bad, I felt that Honda lost me when they stopped offering the Si in hatch. mode. The first Honda I owned was in 90' Black metallic dust, Si, loaded,5 speed, btw... it weighed 3000.lbs! & still hauled [non-permissible content removed]! It was fun reliable, quiet, just a different approach to doing things. My last hatch was a 95 dx, totally diff. still weighed close to 3k. but just didn't have the "stuff" that made it a beauty. I also have owned 2 Miatas. (yes, I love to get cars for myself) & those were the best I have owned. We all have different opinions of cars & thats what makes it good. As far as Golfs are concerned, they are about right for what they charge. The aver. cost of a new car seems to be just above 20k, any less... well you get what you pay for. I didn't mean any less a car!(don't nitpik. you'll see why!)
    Cars like Focus, Echo, & yes, the last of the Civics hopefully won't be a dying breed, these cars are fun, handle well , give respectful mileage & I think they all look good. The aftermarket will do these cars right. My only problem, is Echo or Focus. Yes, you heard right. I want a "sub 20k" car thats fun & ..ok cute.. I think Focus & Echo are really great cars. So, don't give up, there are still some good choices for us!
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    Well, by "sub $20K" I take it you 're willing to pay $18 or 19K? Then I would go for the Celica GT 5-sp with 140hp. It handles really good and it's a fun car to drive and should be very reliable too.
    Yes, I agree that the cost of the Golf is about right because of all the nice standard amenities & safety features (ABS, etc) you get. I never argued that.
    I have to correct you though. You were grossly off on the weight of the '90 & '95 Civic hatchbacks. My Civic hatchback weighs 2258lbs and the '90 Si htbk was one of the lightest cars and barely 2200lbs! that's why it was quick.
    I know, my friend owned one and another close friend of mine owns a '93 DX hatchback (same as '95) and it weights slightly over 2200lbs too.
    We know the weight of our cars because here in NY it's right on your registration! but you can look up old R&T or C&D magazines if you don't believe me.
    Anyway, I guess there are other hatchback choices out there but I would 've liked to stick with the Civic name/family. Oh well, all good things come to an end.. :-)
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • dragwaydragway Member Posts: 34
    If the VW warranty is short think about the Lamborghni's. $240,000 and all you get is 2/24000 miles. The Ferrari is at least 3/unlimited. At the price these cars should be warrantied for life.
  • dhkdhk Member Posts: 49
    To me, the VW 10yr/100K drivetrain warranty is a real plus, and worth alot more than going from 2 to 3 years on the BTB piece.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    I don't think I 've ever seen a Japanese or German car blow an engine or tranny in the first 100K mi. 100K mi. is not much these days. What may go on the first 100K mi. is alternator, oxygen sensors, thermostat, starter, A/C compressor, etc. which is not covered under the drivetrain warranty.
    I think they should at least offer a bumper to bumper warranty for at least 3yrs like everyone else.
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • fervor1fervor1 Member Posts: 5
    This thread is so long that I am not sure who I am responding to. I now own a '98 Golf and previously owned a '92 Jetta. I have also driven my sister's '97 Accord plenty of times. The decision between the VW and the Honda was an easy one for me. The Honda never "spoke" to me when I drove it. I agree with some of the earlier posts that compared it to an appliance. It will run great and you never have to think about it. My first test drive in the Golf on the other hand spoke directly to me. Even with the 2.0 it was just a blast to drive with smooth acceleration right up to redline and amazing handling. The Honda just felt slow and purposeful. My Jetta was not a perfect car and I got rid of it at 110,000 miles due to a growing list of problems. I am expecting the Golf to be even better and I know that I will enjoy every drive in it.
  • fervor1fervor1 Member Posts: 5
    Has anyone else seen the photos of the 4-dr hatchback? If Ford had imported this car in addition to the 4-dr(what is the U.S. obsession with having a lockable trunk anyway?), 2-dr, and wagon, then my recent decision to buy a VW Golf would have been a lot harder. There have to be more of us out there that like the versatility of a hatchback (dog owners will understand) without having to settle for a wagon or an SUV.
  • fervor1fervor1 Member Posts: 5
    This thread is so long that I am not sure who I am responding to. I now own a '98 Golf and previously owned a '92 Jetta. I have also driven my sister's '97 Accord plenty of times. The decision between the VW and the Honda was an easy one for me. The Honda never "spoke" to me when I drove it. I agree with some of the earlier posts that compared it to an appliance. It will run great and you never have to think about it. My first test drive in the Golf on the other hand spoke directly to me. Even with the 2.0 it was just a blast to drive with smooth acceleration right up to redline and amazing handling. The Honda just felt slow and purposeful. My Jetta was not a perfect car and I got rid of it at 110,000 miles due to a growing list of problems. I am expecting the Golf to be even better and I know that I will enjoy every drive in it.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    I agree that the VWs have better road feel & better handling than your average Accord & Civic (excluding Si) but lets not forget that the Accord is a mid-size sedan and your '92 Jetta was and I think still is a compact (not subcompact but compact) sedan. The Accord is the same size as a Camry and it's a family car. It has also be getting bigger & bigger over the years. My friend owned a '92 Accord EX and now a '98 one. His '92 handled much better and it was more fun to drive because it was 250lbs lighter and felt almost sporty like. The Golf is not a mid-size sedan, nor considered an average family car.. You cannot expect the Accord to handle as good or have the same road feel as a Golf.
    Test drive a Civic EX 5sp. (which is what you should be comparing the Golf or Jetta to) and you 'll see a difference between it and the Accord.
    Anyway, I like VWs in general, especially the GTI VR6 but 2 of my friends had an '89 and a '91 Jetta and they both had a lot of problems. The '89 Jetta blew a head gasket at around 110K miles so he paid a lot of money to have it fixed. About a year later the engine ceased at 135K mi.
    But it's not just that. Both of them were having a lot of other problems after 70-80K mi. it seemed. The other guy with the '91 sold it with just under 100K mi. just after he fixed a leaky power steering pump and a long list of other things that I remember cost him $1,100! (this was in late '97). He bought a new Prelude VTEC and he loves it but that's in a different class.
    I guess you could say I have VW-phobia now although I 'm sure a lot of the problems in earlier models would not be inherent in the new ones.. but..then I visited the Beetle topic a few days ago and there are many new GLX owners whose cars are in the shop after only a few days of ownership! Some just died or the service engine light came on and experience performance loss (due to the alarm..) I know the turbo Beetles are new models but there seems to be quite enough of them. How many others are there that don't participate in this forum? Anyway I 'm not trying to put them down. I 'm just scared to buy one you could say. I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a GTI VR6 but my Acura Integra GSR gives me plenty of satisfaction for now and my Civic.. well that's just basic transportation that was well worth the $12.5K I paid and so far in 3yrs it has rewarded me with 87K trouble free miles and will continue to do so up to around 200K mi. (that's when my friend sold his '92 Civic and the buyer still has it a year later) when I 'll sell it - and still get a few bucks for it.
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    I've owned two Golfs (I'm on my second one now) and I can't tell you how often I'm told, "I bet it's really fun to drive!" And that comment, 'fun to drive' is one that VW Golf owners hear again and again and has been repeated in many posts in this conference.

    carlady/host
  • baileysmombaileysmom Member Posts: 1
    I'm in the market for a new car in the next 9 to 12 months, and I want a hatchback. My first choice would have been a 2001 civic hatchback, but I keep hearing that they're going to be discontinued. My next choice is a 2000 or 2001 golf gl, but I've been told that vw's are expensive to maintain - at least compared to honda's. Any truth to that?
  • janet88janet88 Member Posts: 1
    Who really thinks 100,000 is a lot of miles these days. If your car only lasts that long then you've been cheated. I now drive a '99 Honda Civic Coupe. I wanted the hatchback but there weren't any in stock. My previous car was an '89 Dodge Colt (same as a Mitsubishi Mirage) and lasted 244,000 miles, still had the original clutch and had not started slipping yet. It needed a major brake job but had very few problems the 9 years I had it. My '82 Colt lasted 190,000 miles. I've heard Hondas also last a good long time with little maintenance. Since I wasn't looking for a car to "speak" to me, I went with the Honda, plus I have a budget. I guess it depends on if you're looking for feel-good performance go for the VW Golf, but if you want longevity performance get a Honda.
  • qwordqword Member Posts: 20
    Or for that matter get a Mitsubishi Mirage or maybe even a Chevy Metro. To me it seems that those are the types of cars the Honda Civic should be compared to, because the people who drive them, "in my opinion", really don't care or just don't think about the ride quality. They just want an okay little car that's cheap on gas to get them from point A to point B without costing them hardly anything in repair bills. I have yet to hear a Honda Civic owner call their car fun to drive. They all just say, "yes sir it sure is reliable and cheap". No mention what so ever as to the actual driving experience. While on the other hand you and I both have heard VW Golf owners talk about how fun and reliable the cars are. They may cost a couple of thousand dollars more than the Civic's, Mirage's, and Metro's but it's because the Golf is a more solid car than any of those, "in my opinion". I once owned a 1987 VW Scriocco that I had for seven years. When I purchased the car it had a little over 87k miles on it. When I sold the car it had over 220k miles on it. I gave the car one tune up, a new clutch, and a new battery. The previous owner had just replaced the brakes as well as the fuel pump and that was it. Now, because of my Scriocco's awesome feel on the road and it's, "longevity performance ", I now own a Y2K Golf GLS TDI that I know I'll get good use out of.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    Well now you 've heard it here: My Civic is fun to drive! and a lot faster than your Golf Turbo-diesel.
    I have a '97 Civic DX htcbk 5-sp. and in 0-60 acceleration & 1/4 mi. it's faster than your 10s turbo diesel Golf. The Civics are light cars and are not slow. My car weights 2250lbs (compared to 2700-2800lb Golfs) and it's been tested at 8.7sec 0-60. I 've put slightly wider alloy wheels on it with bigger higher performance tires, 14x6" alloys and 195-60 Dunlops D60's HR rated tires and the car is now a lot more fun to drive. The ride is still comfortable because I stayed with 14" diameter (but 1" wider) and handles much better.
    I will occasionally do 115mph (when I 'm in the racing mood) and I still get 32-33mpg after I 've been racing it all day long. Normal driving I average 35mpg mixed city & hway.
    I have 88K mi. on it now and only had a blown speed sensor (speedometer stopped working) replaced which was covered by the warranty.
    All I 've done is a front brake job and a tune-up: plugs, wires, distrib. cap & rotor & air filter. All for $200.
    Civics can be fun to drive. They can be revved high and with some better tires will outhandle a Golf. Look at the skidpad #s. The Golf is only
    .01g better! Nothing good tires can't fix..
    I 'm not saying the Civic handles as good as the GTI but it's comparable to the average or base Golf.
    Overall the Golf may have better road feel but look at the price difference too.
    I would not compare the Civic with the Geo Metro because I don't think the Metro can go much faster than 90mph.. and the Civic has a lot more room than a Metro! The Metro is a true econo-box and gets in excess of 40mpg.
    Mitsubishi Mirage? yes, that's a better comparison.
    But for the price of a base Golf ($15-16K, forget GLS that's $17K & up) I 'd get the Civic EX coupe that comes nicely loaded, has antiroll bars for better handling and 127hp compared to 115hp in the Golf and still weighs 300lbs less than a Golf, not to mention gas mileage and resale value.. but it's not a htbk, so for now I 'll stay with my DX hbk (and my Integra GSR which more fun than even GTI VR6).
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • qwordqword Member Posts: 20
    Well let me tell you Harry you are the first, and really it shouldn't count because you were basically prompted to say that but that's cool. Yeah your Honda is faster than my Golf (for now) but it should be considering my cars a diesel with only 90hp. In my opinion your car should spank my car in acceleration times, but realistically it doesn't thanks to Honda's whimpy torque rating. The Civic EX has 127hp yes, but at only 107 ft/lbs. of torque. The VW Golf 2.0 has 115hp @ 122 ft/lbs. of torque. The torque difference is probable one of the reasons why the 1.8 liter Turbo Golf out accelerates the Honda Si, which has more horses under it's hood compared to the V-Dub, and that torque difference is also why I strongly favor the GTI over your Integra GSR. Sure the GSR supposedly out handles the GTI, but here in Dallas there aren't to many slalom courses open to the public. It's all big open highways on which about every other single day when a buddy of mine is driving to work in his 96 GTI he humiliates Civic and Integra owners alike that dare to race him down Central Expressway. Also I've never really been one to base my opinions on how fast a car is just by reading a magazine. Those times are usually done by professional drivers who spend about two hours trying to get the times lower and lower. I'm one of those knuckleheads who you'll find at the local
    street races where I have yet to see a Honda of any sorts beat a VW with a 2.0 or the all mighty VR6 under it's hood. Please let me reassure you that I'm not trying to knock down Honda's, my girlfriend is trying to buy a 99 model EX, (which has no antiroll bar on it), that I plan to do some aftermarket work on just as soon as I finish with mine, which basically consist of a computer upgrade that will boost my horsepower and torque up to around 30-40 percent. I'm actually tickled to death that she's getting a Civic, because this fun and harmless dispute will continue at our home. Actually it has already began!!!! :)
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    I hope you didn't mean that a Golf TDI can outrun a Civic Si.. Maybe you mean the turbo Beetle?
    Diesel engines are not meant to be fast but reliable and get good gas mileage. And don't believe everything aftermarket manufacturers advertise. No chip can give you 30-40% more HP unless you supercharge your motor or go with turbo, but you already have one!
    The fact remains that a Golf TDI weighs almost 2800lbs and needs every one of those 155ft-lbs to get it moving! The Si weighs 2600 has 77% more HP and it's in the low 7's 0-60. Your car could never do that given that it's turbo charged already. The one roadtest I saw on the TDI it went to 60 in 10.1sec, about the same as the regular 115hp Golfs. Both Civic Si and Golf TDI cost the same, about $17.9-18K. I 'd take the Si any day because it handles a lot better and it's much faster, not to mention reliability and resale value..
    I beat regular Golfs at the light all the time so I don't know what you mean by you 've never seen any Hondas beat the 2.0L VWs at street races.. What are you saying that they 're faster than a 140hp Integra or 160hp Si, or 170hp GSRs? give us a break! The VW VR6 maybe. It's a fast car but a GSR is very very close to it. With some sipmle bolt-on mods like headers & exhaust and a cold air intake a GSR can beat the V6.
    Look at the recent Car & Driver article where they compared 7 coupes/hatchbacks and the GSR came in 4th ahead of the GTI V6.
    My Civic hatchback weighs 2250lbs and at 8.7s 0-60 it's 1.4 sec. faster in 0-60 than a '99-00 Golf
    That's a big difference! I had a '90 Geo Storm w/95hp that was a 10sec car to 60 and it was a lot slower than my Civic htbk.
    As far as mods, sure you can make the Golfs faster but there is a huge market for Honda performace parts too..
    You 're wife is making a very wise choice to buy a Civic EX. I hope she won't get an automatic because it does the car a lot injustice and robs it of power.
    Why did you buy a 90hp car if you were looking for performance? I bought a GSR for performance. I wouldn't waste my money on mods if I were you unless the car feels unbearably slow to you. I 'd upgrade the suspension first. It's still a diesel and not the same as gasoline engines.
    If you do get 30-40% more power out that diesel engine (which I doubt very highly) you will run into serious reliability problems, warped head, camshafts and even bent lifters, etc. You cannot give an engine 30-40% more power without doing some engine mods to reliably handle the extra power. Even GSRs with superchargers start having engine problems after a year or two if no other mods were done to the motor.
    240hp (40% power increase from SC) I think is a little too much even for a VTEC engine to handle, it's still a 1.8L motor..
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • qwordqword Member Posts: 20
    No I did not mean that the TDI Golf is faster than the Civic Si. I meant to say that yes the 1.8t Beetle is faster than the Civic Si in acceleration times. However; there will be 1.8t gas powered Golf/Jetta here in the States in a year or so, and they to will be faster than the Si while having less horsepower but more torque. I bought my TDI from a VW/Jeep dealership, but that was after I went to Rusty Wallace here in Dallas which is a VW/Honda dealership. I knew I wanted a VW to begin with but I wanted to drive the Si to see what all the hype was about. From the inside the only difference between it and the EX from what I could tell was the Si's leather wrapped steering wheel and the orange color of the Si's instrumentation lighting. When I drove the car I started off shifting as though I was in my VW which caused the car to feel very weak down low. The sales rep informed me on the cars VTEC engine which in his opinion I wasn't getting into because I was shifting to soon. He told me to rev it until around 7k and 8k which at the point the car sounded as if it were going to explode. Completely opposite of VW's where the power is available much much much sooner like 2500rpm to about 5000 or 6000rpm. That is why I think the acceleration times in magazines for the VW's are slower, because the drivers are driving them like every other Japanese car. I once saw a road test in which a Honda EX with an automatic transmission beat a VW Jetta with a manual transmission by two seconds which going by their numbers, puts that EX with the automatic transmission in the Si's ball park when considering acceleration. Yeah right!!!!!!!!!
    My girlfriend currently drives a 1997 Dodge Neon that has 130 or 132hp 2.0 16 valve engine. Sure it has more hp than the Golf but it still wont out run one. In regards to the TDI and aftermarket part, check out AutoBahn Designs web site at www.abdracing.com. Take a look at the 1999 TDI golf they did which has 130hp and over 180 ft/lbs. of torque that to this day is still very reliable and still gets around 47-50mpg. The hp rating does include an intake and exhaust combo which with out it the Golf would be at 115hp. That's enough to still beat any Civic. I'll find you the dyno chart which supports those figures or actually if can read German check out www.chiptuning.com. Over there diesels with monster hp and torque are an everyday thing. Volkswagen uses a diesel Golf they call Demon to race with. It has 275hp and 325 ft/lbs of torque. I'm sure they spent a pretty penny on it but it's still the base platform TDI engine! Also I honestly HAVE NOT SEEN A CIVIC OR INTEGRA BEAT A VW at the races, and you can hear why when your there. Those guys in the Civic's and Integras are still in second gear by the time the VW folks are hitting the top of third. Back in 98 at the Ennis Nopi drag wars it was a normally aspirated GTI that took home first place beating everything in it's class which included TURBO HONDA'S and TURBO ACURA'S.
  • hilarywhilaryw Member Posts: 1
    Could someone explain the difference in the VW golf models for me? I am considering buying a 1996 VW Golf III or Golf GTI --- OR a 1996 Honda Civic Hatchback.

    I don't really care about performance, but do care about a "fun" drive and a stylish look. My main concerns are price, maintenance and mileage. I can drive a manual or automatic, but prefer an automatic. : )

    Any advice appreciated!
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