VW Golf vs Honda Civic

only1harry · January 2000

Well, now you 're talking about modded VWs. I was talking about stock.
I 've been to the track several times and stock VWs or with just a cold air intake run 15.3 - 17sec. in the 1/4 and this includes V6s.
There are modded Civics & Integras (turbo plus nitrus) with 400hp+ that do the 1/4 in 11sec!
You can't talk about sooped up cars because every car is different depending how much money they 've put in it.
We 're talking about stock here. And the 115hp Golfs & Jettas don't hold a candle to a Civic or Integras. The VW VR6 is the only one that can stand up to a stock Integra GSR but then again a base Prelude (200hp) or a Type-R will have it for breakfast.
I 've beaten plenty of Passats V6 & Jettas V6 in street races (at the light and on the hway) but I have yet to race the slightly lighter GTI VR6.
Good luck with your mods and if you drop your 0-60 times by 3 sec. to match a Civic Si I 'll be very surpised. The performace air intake & exhaust all makes sense. You probably forgot to mention a different header too. You must improve the overall breathing of the car.
I 'm doing some suspension mods on my GSR. I 'd rather have more control than more acceleration (I already have that). You can have all the speed you want but if your suspension can't handle it what good is it? There is nothing more exhilerating than quickly changing lanes or quick switchbacks at 120mph. Gives you a lot of confidence..

tomcat630 · January 2000

Here is what I know about Golfs. In '96, the GTI was either a 4 cyl or VR6 powered 2 door. The 4 doors were GL's only.

The Golf "III" designation was from 1994-1995 only, refering to the 3rd generation Golf model.

rae52 · January 2000

I own a '99 dx hatch; does anybody else experiencing a rattle and/or plastic rubbing noise from either the right rear or left rear of their car?

I'm bringing my car to the dealer (Clinton Honda,Annandale, NJ for their tech to road test it

nano201 · January 2000

if you driven the 00 model of the golf glx please give me your feelings on the cars suspension and handling

only1harry · January 2000

I own a '97 DX htbk and get this noise sometimes on very cold mornings but after a mile or 2 of driving, it goes away.
From what I hear there seems to be a lot of Civics with this rattle which normally comes from the rear right (behind the passenger).
Just a week ago a guy wrote that the dealer finally fixed it!
From what I can understand, it was the molding on the outside of the car that was rattling or something inside it. Or maybe molding inside the car? I don't remember exactly now.. I read this in the Civic EX topic in the convertible/sports forum. Go back about 2 weeks and you should be able to find it..
Anyway, this noise started last year on my car but it's only there once in a while and then it goes away. I have 88K mi. on the car and it doesn't really bother me. BTW, it seems to be in all the Civics not just hatchbacks.

rae52 · January 2000

Thank you only1Harry for the help locating the post for my "problem". I'll see what the dealer finds and recommends.

rae52 · February 2000

Hi folks, just wanted anybody who has the rattle in the back of their hatch to be aware of fix for that noise.

I brought my car to Clinton Honda (see my earlier post). The tech "adjusted the rear hatch latch(made it flusher w/ the body) and adjusted the rubber stoppers. END OF NOISE!
This tech first went on a road test with me; we stopped halfway, then he road in the back and understood where the problem was, adjusted those two items road tested again and that was it. All the time spent on my car was 30 min.

volksnut · February 2000

my '95 Civic DX 5sp has been a blast to drive, akin to a superfast gocart driven on a milk crate. I've never added the aftermarket products that make this car really fun because I didn't consider it safe over 100mph. The faster I went the smaller I felt. I told my wife, the car would be the end of me so now it's for sale.

I bought a new 2000 Golf GLS 4 door two days ago. The Golf is more comfortable, better handling and I feel much safer now at the same speed. I'd consider the Golf a driver's car and the Civic a tuner's quickie.

My Golf has a 2 liter 115hp engine, too little for the bulk of the car. It's disappointing off the line but between 60 and 90 it's a rock steady and confident cruiser. I'm already dreaming about 300 horses under the hood of this car. I think it could take it and I'd have a lot of fun getting it there.

Dependability? Don't give me a lecture on this. I've got a '73 camper in my driveway on it's fourth engine. I didn't by a Volks for dependability.

I used to think the Hondas were cookie cutters and as I've read here termed 'appliances' but I was surprised by the fun factor in my little car. I bought my civic for dependability and fuel economy and got both. Now with 86,000 miles, I feel like it's just getting broken in and I'm confident the next owner will drive the wheels off it and have just as much fun for as many miles as I did.

only1harry · February 2000

You 're right. I just hit 90k mi. on my '97 DX hatch and I think it's still getting faster & faster and still braking in. Civics are fun to drive unlike what most VW owners have said here. With a set of a little bigger wheels and tires they handle much better but unfortunately like you I often find myself doing 100 & 110mph and that's not good. Believe it or not it feels a lot more stable at those speeds with better tires (& wider wheels) but it doesn't have the braking capabilities and refinement of the VW (or my Integra GSR's). Afterall should a $13K Civic drive better than a $17-18K GLS? It shouldn't and it doesn't. Like you said you feel safer in the VW and it gives you more confidence at higher speeds and handles better.
The main reason for this is because the Golf GLS is 400-500lbs heavier but along with the weight VW has done a good job stiffening the chassis and improving the suspension of the Golf. It's really all relative to price I think. You get what you pay for. The Civic is supposed to be affordable but on the other hand it's hard to kill their engines and are are very reliable which is why they sell so well.
The Golf is not an econo-box anymore. Starting at $16K with the GLS reaching $18K it has graduated to a slightly higher class but rightfully so. It offers more (except HP) as far as amenities, good all around solid body and road feel, ABS, etc.
Civic & Golf have grown apart. We really cannot compare them anymore.
I think the '01 Civics will be more in the Golf's class because Honda realized people want something more than just reliable transportation, like some excitement and a more solid road feel and with VW sales reaching new heights in the US, and elsewhere, they have to take a very careful approach on how they build their cars. Afterall, they are still competing with all the compacts such as Golfs, Jettas, Echos, Neons, Corollas & Sentras.
VW so far has done an excellent job improving their cars and increasing sales but a new motor to replace the 115hp one (underpowered for the cars' weight) is way overdue!
People like me would never buy a car with such a power to weight ratio. The VR6? sure now that's just right, but I don't want a V6 and don't have $23K to spent. Why not a $16-17K 135hp 4cyl. Golf? now if VW could just add another 20 horses to at least beat the Civic EX (127hp), imagine how many more they 'd sell. A couple of my friend's didn't buy a Golf because they were disappointed with the acceleration. One bought a Civic EX and the other an Integra LS, both were my recommendations. I think the underpowered 2.0L engine is it's only drawback.
I mean the S2000 gets 240hp out of its 2.0L engine! that's over twice as much.. I 'm only asking for 20 more. Sure they will have the turbo here soon with 150hp or more, but who wants to pay the higher insurance for the turbo?
My brother owns a Type-R with 195hp which is a true sports car, and only pays about $50 more than my GS-R. Turbos are out of the question. They should be able to achieve 150hp or more with naturally aspirated engines like Honda & Toyota and everyone else. N/A keeps insurance costs down and longer engine life. sorry for the long note..

kevinc · February 2000

That was WEAK!!

isellhondas · February 2000

But, then, so was the VW!

mzn · February 2000

Re: Stirring The Pot

In the fifteen years we've owned VWs, we've NEVER had a dead battery. Our block has about 6 VWs on it. I took an informal poll and none of them had ever had a dead battery. You hear the exceptions of course by virtue of the fact that these folks are at a Honda dealership. The other 99% of us are very happy drivers!

carlady/host

isellhondas · February 2000

I think it happens when they sit for several days or something.

And, my comments are based strictly on my experiences. Any other salesperson here will agree with me. They quickly learn that VW's have their quirks.

Engines seem to run OK. It's the little things, mostly electrical that cause trouble. Switches, door handles, stuff like that. These same items rarely cause trouble on a Japanese car. Even domestic models are better.

In my younger years, I owned many a Volkswagen. I loved my '62 Bug dearly.

I'm glad your luck has been good. They are very high on my list of cars that make me cringe when we take one in as a trade in.

Maybe we just get the bad ones?

scomo · February 2000

I'm looking at a Golf GL and was wondering how $$$ everyone paid? THanks...

qword · February 2000

Hey Volksnut , congratulations on your recent purchase of the Golf. I know that you'll be able to enjoy it for a long time.
Before my last purchase of my Y2K Golf TDI, I had a 1994 Golf GL that basically had the same 2.0 engine as yours. Knowing what I do now about aftermarket VW Tuning, I wish that I had kept the car. Before I got rid of it I sank about $425 into it which improved the hp to 140 from 115. That was a P-Chip by Neuspeed, a Weapon R cold air intake w/ a Eurosport heat shield, a Dianichi Turbo Muffler (had plans on forced induction), and a set of Eurosport plugs and plug wires. The car already had EiBach sport springs when I bought it. I also added 16' inch GTR's to improve the looks of the car. After that the car was a total blast to drive, and it didn't sound like a pissed off weed eater like most Honda's, Neons, and other compacts with aftermarket exhaust it had a very deep and strong sound to it.
The 2.0 is a great engine to build on and I know for a fact that it could easily handle 300 horses. Check out www.eiptuning.com, for information on that.

qword · February 2000

ISELLHONDAS-
I've owned three Volkswagens and have never experienced any type of interior problems. Like my current Golf, my 94 Golf didn't have a switch to activate the rear defrost it had a button located next to the radio and it never just fell apart on me. My Scriocco had a switch but it never fell apart. I wouldn't call those typical problems of VW's.
I know a handful of people with Civics, and Accords that have experienced problems with their Honda's interior features as well. Such things like the buttons for the horns popping off due to big bumps in the roads, rear mirrors flying off due to bumps in the road, and the middle console latch not working properly. Not to mention car paint fading when the car isn't even a year old. ARE THOSE TYPICAL PROBLEMS OF HONDAS??? Must be because all of the above mentioned cars are 1998's and above.
Also Honda's have tons of road noise compared to VW's, that alone should tell you that VW's are built better. I mean take a ride in a loaded Accord, and then jump right into a base model Golf and go for a ride down that same street.
Maybe Honda should put more thought into the ride quality of a car and not so much it's looks and prices.
Like you however; that's just my opinion backed by different experiences with Honda's so it doesn't mean much, because people will still buy both types of cars for a long long time.

davidgti · February 2000

I am not bragging, in fact I am not really proud of this, but I have owned over 17 new cars in the last 12 years. Including a 95 GTI, a 96 Accord, a 97 Covette, a 97 Camary, a 98 Maxima, a 2000 Vovlo V70 and a 2000 GTI (VR6). The bottom line is that I am not brand loyal, I buy what I like and the best car I have ever owned has been this 2000 GTI (VR6).

Each of the other cars had plenty of quircks of their own, including the 95 GTI, and the almighty Honda! Yes, folks the Honda, mine was a boring car with problems with the electrical system. So when I went shopping last month I dove everything all over again and read everything I could find. I came back to the GTI car for one reason... For the money there is nothing even close. That is if you want performance, durability, fun, stable, and the list goes on and on.

VW has packed so much into these cars for a remarkable value and the reason is some of the problems they had in the early 90's. They are out to win back the hearts of driver's and they did it with me. I can afford almost any car I want, and I drove everything before buying this GTI, from the BMW 3 series, to the new Celica GTS, and the hopped up Integra. I even drove the new Eclipse (save some time and skip that one) nothing had the solid, sporty feel and best of all you won't see yourself driving everywhere you go. I have not seen another new GTI since buying mine and that's a great feeling, It's always turning heads and I highly recommend this car. Check out the Road and Track 2000 road tests, the GTI ourperforms all the [non-permissible content removed], but especially the civic.

As for dealer service, well that's another story. I have never had a car where I actually liked the dealer with the exception of Volvo, they are first class.

Vvrroomm and have fun!

quack56k · February 2000

I dunno about what some others may have experienced....and I am kinda biased, sort of, but there's been a few things that have been irritating me throughout all of these posts...

The one main thing is the "Fun" factor of honda verses VW... and this is where I may be biased.

For VW...I will admit...it does seem to have a little more "creature comforts" that, although nice, aren't really needed! Up here in Canada, it doesn't normally get as hot as it does down south, so personally, I think A/C is overrated, heck...what's the use of a/c when an open window will do! But from my experience, (4 years driving, 5 cars) VW IS the more expensive one for every aspect, (mileage, repairs, etc) so it kinda makes sence that it would have to make up for those factors by being a little more "sportier" than a civic!
On the performance side of things, I'm not too sure if I can really say that the VW is much better than the civics...the last few VW's that I've been in and drivin,(both being VW Jetta's) but I seemed to have trouble adjusting to the really LOW rpm-to-torque of the TDI and that may be what was wrong, but needles to say no matter how hard I tried, I still had trouble getting the VW's to squeal the tires off a standing start...and shifting up to second had no redeeming factors as it just slid in and started accelerating....up to highway speeds (for me about 95mph) which they both seemed to rev rather high!! (3200 to 3800 5th)

now for the honda side. I haven't had much experience with these, but I still have come to love them rather unquestionably, mainly for the cost saving mileage, and maintenance! I also like the fact that there's the 7 year 160,000 KM BUMPER-TO-BUMPER warranty that's available! Sure, there's a few less "creature comforts" but for my needs, I don't really need them things like ABS and air conditioning and sunroofs!! Who really would with 9 months of below freezing weather a year!! as for the performance, sure, there may be the fact that the honda's that I'm playing with now are newer(2000 models compared with 91 tdi and 95 base jetta) so that may be another part of my bias, but I do like the fact that i don't have to worry about feeling like the car's gonna pull me off the road in a corner (being lighter) especially since I like taking them corners that are rated at a max safe speed of (pardon my canadian measurements) 30KM/H at about 110km/h!! that combined with the satisfying squeal of the tires from a standstill and another satisfying chirp on shifting to second!, and this is in the smallest performer in the honda line, slightly spruced up!! (dx hatch) which doesn't even hold a candle to the Coupe SiR thats available up here! Another little side note, the RPM levels at highway speeds (95MPH) are a nominal 2800 in 5th!

LOL....never to make a small impression, I leave this rather long message for you all to peruse, and I shall be glad to answer to anything that may arise whenever I can, as I just discovered edmunds, and really appreciate everything that I have learned and read about here! I consider myself lucky to be able to be one of the relatively few to be able to actually come across such a haven of information in such a chaotic world such as the internet! and will endevor to keep visiting regularly to be able to reply to anything that I may be able to! I figure that I should be able to answer just about anything about the Canadian versions of the Civics that anyone may have, especially since I should be getting my new 2000 hatchback DX here in the next month or so (backordered!! they were really popular, but now that they've been discontinued due to the appearance of the special edition hatchback it's a relativly hard one to come by!) and will try to keep everyone posted on any developments that might deem useful!

till later...
Michel

only1harry · February 2000

I totally agree. Like I 've said before many times in this topic, the Civic hatchback is cheaper, has better acceleration and costs less to to own (gas, maintenance, etc).
My '97 hatchback now with 92K mi. can still burn rubber and beat any stock 4cyl. Golf. With some aftermarket wheels, nothing fancy, just some 14x6" and 195-60 HR tires it becomes fun to drive and can take those turns much faster than before.

So what's this special edition '00 hatchback? What does it come with? does it come with the same 106hp engine? I 'm lucky mine didn't come with power steering 3 years ago so I get a few more horses at the wheels (plus it weighs less)than today's DX htbk that has PS.

deevcj · February 2000

I just bought a black 2000 Golf GL. I got alloy wheels from the dealer. With the alloys and a cd changer I paid about 15.5k. I have put z rated tires on the car, splash guards, tinted the windows and it looks great. I get alot of questions and comments about it from people when they see it. I really like the way it handles around town and it cruises at 80mph just fine. I looked at Hondas and Focuses but the Honda HB didn't have abs and the Focus just seemed cheap to me...

quack56k · February 2000

I have all the details for the Civic SE hatch in front of me, but as for the others, I can get them within a few days!! (Might have latched myself a job at one of the local dealerships!!)

The only real differences between the Civic DX and the Civic SE is:

-Standard CD Player
-14" Alloy Wheels
-Body colored rear spoiler, mirrors, handles, side mouldings, licence garnish
-"Civic Special" Rear badge (replaces the normal DX or CX)

and it costs about 500 less!

Up here in Canada, all I've ever been able to find at any dealership is the Civic Hatch CX, DX, and SE, but today I came across a Type R!! Does anyone know about their availablity up here, or even in the states?

only1harry · February 2000

They don't export it in the US!! I wish I could buy the Civic Type-R!! It has 185hp and the Integra Type-R suspension, brakes & gearbox!
It's limited production but will probably be around $5K more than an SE hbk.
That's the car I was waiting for in '98 & '99 but they never brought it to the US so I got a '99 Integra GSR (170hp). Oh well..

quack56k · March 2000

I'm thinking that that one type R that I came across was imported in, cause it wasn't at the dealership for sale!! That's why I'm wondering about it's availablity up here! But ahh....wishfull thinking!

shiner2 · March 2000

Howdy Folks,

This is the first time I've read your group comments and I had a question, or more of a dilemma down here in Texas.

I've got a 95 Civic CX with 71.5K miles and I'm trying top sell it. Edmunds is giving me a market price of ~ $7500. Is this correct? After looking at other Civic prices (4 door DX,LX,EX)in the classifieds this seems awfully high.

Another question, I have a dent in the front quarter panel. How much do you usually take off for this? This is the 1st time I've sold a car and I'm not sure what to ask for.

I wanted to thank you guys for reminding me how fun the Civic is to drive. I just bought a new 99 Isuzu Amigo for $6,500 under MSRP with a convertible soft top(great in central TX). I got the deal of the century but now I am forced to sell my loyal, hard working, great running little Civic CX. I already miss the little guy... I guess I'll give him a spin around the block!

isellhondas · March 2000

Are you gone....? O.K.....

Shiner, instead of looking at Edmunds pricing, go to your local bank. Ask them which book is used in your part of the world. It's probably NADA but it could be Kelly Blue Book.

You'll find wholesale and retail pricing. you might ask somewhere in between. Be sure to take the deduct if it's a five speed or has no air cond.

I can't see your dent, but it might be a 300.00 dent or a 2000.00 dent. Have a body shop give you an estimate so you can show that to a prospective buyer.

P.S.

No bank or dealership uses Edmunds pricing. I've found these numbers to be all over the board. Sometimes way too high, other times way too low.

Use the guide that is used in your neck of the woods.

only1harry · March 2000

Having a friend who is a dealer and buys and sells used cars, and having brought people to him to buy used cars (I make a few bucks too..) I have a pretty good idea on what cars should go for. I won't see him till the weekend to check his Kelly blue book but I 'd say retail you could get around $5500 at the most for your Civic without a dent.
I would list it for $5,550 and don't mention the dent in the ad. Tell them on the phone or when they come over to see it take off $400-500 for the dent. Try to get around 4500-5K and don't go to a dealer. They 'll offer you way below blue book, probably around $3K. My friend buys Civics for $3K and gets $5K for them easily.
71K mi. is nothing for a Civic. I have 93K mi. on my '97 DX htbk and the engine runs like new considering I 'm hard on the car and often cruise at 80-85mph every day with frequent drag racing at the light.
Have you considered keeping it as a 2nd car? I thought about selling my '97 Civic DX when I bought my '99 GSR and I actually put it in the local paper for 10 days and then I changed my mind. I got many calls and some people even told me that $6900 was too low and they were afraid something was wrong with it! Gas prices had already started rising last July and since the GSR runs on premium gas I decided to keep the CIvic.
I know trucks don't get good gas mileage at all and you 'll definitely miss the Civic's.
If your truck says on the sticker that it gets
20city - 25hwy, figure 17-22 at best. A lot of my friends have SUVs and jeeps and they don't come close to the advertised gas mileage which is bad to begin with. Just something for you to think about..

volksnut · March 2000

I've decided to keep my civic DX instead of selling it because my wife and I both need high mpg cars where we live and with the current gas price hike. While trying to sell the Honda I got one call for my asking price of $6100. The market is flooded with these cars. In case you didn't read my last comment, I bought a new 00 Golf GLS and I compared them slightly although I'd only had a few miles on it. Now with 2,500 more miles of experience with the Golf, I'd like to compare them again. The Golf kicks the Civics butt in every way. No contest.

only1harry · March 2000

Yes, the Golf is the better car (you get what you pay for expression comes to mind) but you can't tell me that a 2750lb car with 115hp can accelerate faster than a 2250lbs car with 106!
I 've never been beaten by a 4cyl. Golf.
Just look at the magazine accelaration tests. Golf: 10-10.4s and Civic htbk: 8.7-9.1
That's one of 2 things a Civic htbk is better at than a Golf GL,GLS. The other is gas mileage.
Show me a Golf that averages 33-34mpg (like mine).. Other than that, the Golf is better in almost every category. If I could 've gotten a Golf for $12.5K (with A/C) I would. At that price range ($13K) the Civic hatchback is definetely worth it. I 'm sure your GLS cost you around 17K..
Next year though the Golf will have some real competition from the redesigned Civic which will be much more comparable to the VWs.

thebbw1 · April 2000

Well my days as a speed demon are waning and I'm looking for a little comfort in my life now. I have lived with a Civic hatchback VERY happily for the last nine years, and have just finalized the search for a new vehicle. BUT to me, the Golf was just SO much nicer that any slight cost differances were not relevant. ABS, Disc brakes, heated mirrors, sumptuous details, great sound. Now I am still nervous about leaving the wonderful world of Honda reliability, I'll have to get back to you in a few years.

focuszx3r · April 2000

If u can find a Civic hatchback, BUY IT! It is a much better car then a VW, but I was recently in the market for a hatch and I bought a Ford Focus ZX3. Its much better in the style and price dept. then these cars!

tomcat630 · April 2000

Next year (2001) there will not be any Civic H/B for the USA market. So, the Golf will be battling the Focus ZX3.

rfruth · April 2000

On the subject of VW vs Honda vs Ford vs GM, when shopping for almost any brand hatch late last year I visited VW dealerships to see and feel a Golf, there were never any on the lot, Focus sedans were in stock but no hatchbacks, lots of Toyota Celica liftbacks for $ 20 + and several Civic hatchbacks in stock ..
oh yea, SUV = Silly Ungainly Vehicle

Rob Fruth - Houston, Tx
http://freeweb.pdq.net/rfruth

1981 Raleigh for commuting, errands & fun ____ __o
1997 Trek 2300 for real fun ! ____ _ \ | _)
2000 Civic (dx 5 speed) hatchback (_)/ (_)

mnn · April 2000

(quack56k):

I need some advice on whether to go for the VW or stay with the Honda. I own a 97 Civic LX Sedan (well, I always hit my head when retrieving stuff from a coupe, so..), and am contemplating of trading it in for either the Accord SE (5 sp), or the VW Golf 1.8 T (I heard the Jetta has loads of problems, and it is more expensive). I have test driven the Accord and find it smooth, though lack a bit of sporty feel. I have not had the chance to test drive the Y2K Golf, but I have driven the 97, and that felt great, safe, sturdy, especially in the snow (which is lacking from the Honda). The reason for changing car is that I find my Civic slow, especially when you have the air-con on, and merging onto the highway is not much fun. OK, if my criteria is a more powerful vehicle with a good manual box, high resale value, and low maintenance, which one, (in your opinion) should I be looking at (you won't be held responsible). Plus, I'd probably need a bit of financing, and the VW's rate sucks (bank rate), should I just forget about the Golf altogether?
I love my Civic, but from the 6th month of ownership on I found myself in need of more horsepower, and I think the Golf would be a nice advancement?!

When is a good time to buy VW?? I don't seem to recall any "trend" in their promotion like the Honda does. (I live in Canada)
Anyone out there can help me out?

hugoz · April 2000

Thanks for the new spin on the "SUV" acronym. If you can think of a synonym for "boring" that also starts with the letters, s,u or v, let us know!

Concerning hatchbacks, anyone who's unsure about their choices in the $12-13K range ought be looking at the Ford Focus ZX3 hatchback. Don't take my word, though: check out the ZX3 postings -- the people there are absolute fanatics about it!

mzn · April 2000

mnn, I've had two VW Golfs, my current 1996 and a 1987 before it. If you're looking for power, I think the Golf GTI is the way to go. IMHO, the Golf gives a more solid ride. I drove the Civic hatchback in 1996 and stayed with the Golf. Why not test drive them both and see what works for you?

carlady/host

only1harry · April 2000

Well if it don't mind a coupe or hatchback the Integra GSR has one of the best manual gearboxes and shifters in the world and should be a bit faster than the Golf 1.8T since it's about 300lbs lighter and has 170hp. although I think the Golf Turbo is also a good choice - don't get the diesel turbo though, it's not fast. The Golf 1.8T should have pretty good power (150hp but lots of torque)

judas · April 2000

I wouldn't count on the GSR being faster than the 1.8T GTI. I've seen 0-60 times for the 1.8T Beetle anywhere from 7.1 to 7.6, and the GTI is lighter, and more aerodynamic (Although that probably wouldn't matter to 60, might make a little difference in the 1/4). The GSR has about 20 more HP, but its got about 30 less lb/ft.

mnn · April 2000

Just one quick question: are Golfs made in Germany, or in Mexico like the Jettas and Passats?? And, does it really matter in terms of quality?? (I noticed there are a lot of lemons with Jettas). Also, is it true that if the VIN# starts with a "W" it is German made, whereas those with "3" or "4" are Mexican?

judas · April 2000

I think that GTI's are still made in Germany, and that Golf's are made in Brazil, but I can't remember where I heard that or even if it's accurate.

qword · April 2000

If I were you I would look at the 1.8t Golf and the TDI Golf. Believe it or not the TDI Golf out accelerates the 2 liter Golf. Not by much but hey it's a 90hp diesel engine that averages 42-50mpg, pretty impressive if you ask me. However for a couple of thousand more go with the GTI that way you will not have to worry about future turbo problems. I would also take a look at the Integra GSR which is also in that price range I think. Though it lacks considerable in torque it still offers alot of fun up top.
I was once told that anytime is a good time to buy a VW since VW doesn't offer to many rebates like other car manufacturers.
Good luck!!!!!

phrozen · April 2000

Does anyone know when the next generation of civic hbs are coming out? Or any specs about them?

mzn · April 2000

Sorry, phrozen, only bad news to report. Honda has decided not to continue the Civic hatchback model. Honda is out of the hatchbacks market altogether.

carlady/host

rfruth · April 2000

Topic # 271 is Honda Insight Hatchback, is the Insight really available in a hatch version, if so great if not maybe Honda has a 5 door hatch in the works ! SUV = Soccer UV ?

Rob Fruth - Houston, Tx
http://freeweb.pdq.net/rfruth

1981 Raleigh for commuting, errands & fun ____ __o
1997 Trek 2300 for real fun ! ____ _ \ | _)
2000 Civic hatchback when I have to (_)/ (_)

mzn · April 2000

Yes, you're right! The Insight is a hatchback. As a hybrid car, I tend not to think of it for the typical car buyer. Good point. I don't see any sign of a 5-door yet. We certainly need more of them on the market.

carlady/host

02blueyes · April 2000

Does anyone have an e-mail or P.O. address for Honda? How can we convince Honda that there are some people who would like a 5dr hatch and not a gas guzzling SUV?

I have been keeping up with a site called vtec.net and Honda sells 5dr hatches in Europe.
What can we do to convince Honda to sell these models in the U.S.

judas · April 2000

You can round up a couple thousand friends that want to buy one. 5 door hatches have never sold well in the US, with the possible exception of the Golf (And even that's up for debate.) The vast majority of 5 door hatches sold here have also been obscenely ugly, witness the Nova 5 door, Prizm 5 door, Saab 5 doors have never been particularly attractive, etc, etc. I've never seen a picture of a Honda 5 door (Do they even produce one?) I guess you're stuck with the PT Cruiser or a Subaru of some sort.

only1harry · April 2000

for Japan and Asian markets only. Go to VTEC.NET and look up the news/rumors. Somewhere down the list (in March I believe) there is an article from a Japanese magazine that shows pictures of the '01 Civic 5dr htbk, '01 Integra Type-R and NSX.
The Civic 5dr looks like the new Forcus HB a little.
They will also have for the first time a 4dr Civic sedan Type-R with the current Integra
Type-R engine - 200hp! (Japanese version is always 5hp more than US). I guess they know these cars won't sell well here

Sure they might sell a couple of thousand but probably not worth their while to export.

deevcj · April 2000

I own a 2k Golf GL, with the 2.0 engine. I can tell you that speed is not its thing, any Neon or Honda out there can take it and I wouldn't even consider running agianst a Focus ZR3. I looked at, drove and researched the heck out of the three since I wanted a hb. If Honda still made an SI hatch, that is what I would of bought. I went with VW for features like ABS, fit and finish and looks. The Focus just screamed small car to me even though it is big on the inside. Something else to consider, only 1000 Golfs are sold per month in America, I have more stangers ask me about my car and have never seen more than a few like it.

nasaboy · April 2000

I'm getting rid of an '87 Civic DX Hatchback in a few months. It has 163K on it but the rust monster has basically eaten the car. I thought a few people out there might be interested in the results of my "road test." As far as maintenance goes, I've changed the oil, air filter and coolant religiously; the car does not burn any oil. Do I want another Honda? No. Why. . .
1. Wiper motor failed at 19K. Replaced under warranty.
2. Carb floats failed at ~43K. Complete carb rebuild.
3. Ignition switch failed at ~53K. Car had to be towed.
4. Radiator replaced at about 120K. This car has gone through 2 thermostats as well. With all that, it still runs much closer to redline than any other car I have ever driven.
5. Cassette has not worked properly since about '93. Right speaker failed in about '95. This car has the worst radio reception I have ever experienced.
6. Starter motor replaced at about 135K.
7. The car has had a vacuum leak as long as I have had it. The idle sounds funny but seems to work OK.
8. The stick has been very sticky since about '96. I am told the problem is bad bushings. Too cheap to fix.
9. Seat belts have failed to retract properly since about 1995.
10. The skin of the right rocker and the structural components no longer touch. Rust in other places too. Left rear wheel no longer perpendicular to road.
11. After about 50K miles, virtually every brake job involved a cylinder replacement.
There have GOT to be better vehicles on the road than this piece of trash. Lest anyone think that I have the only Honda problem child, I have a friend with a Civic that REALLY overheated. Although there was never any coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant, the problem was only fixed at 92K with a replacement engine. Back to my car, both CV joints have been replaced, but I consider that quasi-routine.

isellhondas · April 2000

Well, with a couple of exceptions, your list of "problems" are pretty trivial. It's an old car with 163K. Sounds like you REALLY don't like to spend money. Your radio has been broken for seven years and you put up with it....?

I wonder what you would be complaining about if you had bought a Volkswagen instad of a Honda?

VW Golf vs Honda Civic

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