Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I tried the civic and the corolla and the even the camry and the accord. What's up with these lower roof lines and high seats? I'm 6 foot - it seems VW is the only small car manufacturer that recognizes people over 5'7''... The Golf was a perfect fit. I actually felt small in the car! I don't drive a manual, but was willing to go with one when I was considering the Mazda 3 (poor lease options, so I'm still shopping). How is the manual on the Golf?
How many MPGs is everyone getting on their manual or automatic?
Any advice/comments would be welcome!
Herbie53.
I will say that if fuel economy is an issue, the SI only gets around 30 mpg. Not typical Civic mileage.
and comfortable and handling is very good.
Be sure to visit the VW area here for more info: http://www.vwvortex.com/
I've heard civics are reliable and I do not disagree, but the other week I was doing a friend a favor by taking her civic to the car wash and while sitting in the queue, in neutral, the engine cut out!!! :surprise: THATS RIGHT! A honda VTEC engine simply just failed! No lie or exaggeration. There goes their record.
Please don't get me wrong, I like Hondas and other Japanese cars. When I was buying, it was a coin-flip between a Civic and a Golf. Many advised I go VW and I did. No regrets.
Some may say Golfs are expensive but you do pay for quality.
The civic seats feel nice and it is a high rever, but personally I prefer my oomph lower down on the rev scale. The golf has a much higher quality feel to the interior. It was designed by a designer, not the accountant.
Currently planning on getting a Mk2 big bumper GTi
Proud to say im a VW lover now, may get a civic to see whats it's like, but my heart will from now on belong to the Germans.
My advice to to anyone who has this hard choice - it doesn't matter. Your getting a reliable car either way. But the Golf will last longer and get you more respect.
Heck, with 2 or three posts in the last few months, doesn't seem like there's much comparing the Civic vs. the Golf. Do they even still sell the Golf? LOL.
At any rate, VW and Audi are doing quite well these days, even in the US. I would be worried about GM, and Ford must get their act together. I am not worried about the VW group, which includes Audi, Skoda, Seat, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Bugatti --- and thus is highly diversified, and is the biggest car maker in Europe. VW's US sales are up 28% compared to the same month last year, Audi sales are up 20%.
So, if there is no discussion in here for a while - is that because there is no comparison between the Golf and the Civic, or between the Civic and the Golf?
Finally, the new base engine for the Golf is the 2.5 5-cylinder - same as that in the new Jetta. It will be out in the summer. I'll take the 2.0TFSI of the GTI instead (a lot more power with better fuel consumption). 5-door available in about July. It will finally replace my 13+ year old, very reliable, very low-cost Golf that does not have any rust and never leaves me stranded. (In case you ask, why, then? I and my loved ones appreciate the idea of having airbags, although I have already been hit by a Mack truck-equivalent in the back, without consequences...).
That is, unless I go for the A3.
Cheers.
Heck, Hummer sales are up 50% but GM is still in trouble.
Secondly, those ~17,000 cars are per month, not per year.
Thirdly, ~17,000 cars a month add up to ~ 200,000 a year, and at an average sales price of $28,000 (I just made that up) that adds up to about 6 BILLION dollars a year. Not sure who you work for, but that doesn't sound too shabby to me. Even more so, when I think about the fact that currently, the US is a mere afterthought to one of the most successful car companies in the world.
GM is doing fine in other countries but getting thier butts kicked here.
Read back....I said that 17,000 cars a month is not that successful for the "bread and butter" brand. And 7000 Jettas a month is paltry compared to Jetta sales in the past.
6 billion dollars a year may not sound shabby to you, but for a major conglomerate, that's not all that much money. As far as the U.S. being an afterthought to VW...Well...
http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/en/beijing/cib/2005_09/auto-sales-is-the-honeymoon- -over-for-vw.html
They better start making it a before-thought.
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_canaries_go_first/
And I quote..."Volkswagen: The saddest story."
You can rebut those articles by the automotive press.
I'm done.
Now, VW has had really long model years, and is saying that is changing. They just started introducing the new Jetta last year, the new Passat Sedan very recently, and the new GTI in January. New Golf likely in June. Now, with this information, lets take another look at the January sales year to year changes: Jetta sedan up 48%, Passat Sedan up 82%, Golf combined up 26% (remember, this is without the new Golf - just new GTI). Looks to me like they are doing something right. Beetle sales are up, too, the New Passat wagon just came in, and over the course of the next months they will introduce the 5-door GTI, the Golf, and the Eos.
So, from my viewpoint, things are definitely looking up for VWoA, and I am not worried a bit that VWoA will fall apart any time, soon. Which brings me to the second "automotive press" (actually Forbes) article, which fails to mention what the actually size of the car companies is (obviously, one of the largest car makers in the world can weather a US storm better than a small company), and is therefore outright silly. How about this piece of uplifting news instead?
And what the tea in China is the relationship of the first article to the health of VWoA? (Would anyone have thought that VW would forever have a virtual monopoly in China?).
I guess, I have a generally positive outlook on life, and I am looking forward to buying a new 5-door Golf (GTI actually, if not an A3) in the summer. No worries here.
1000 Golf sales has to get better. But hatches don't do well in the U.S. So it probably won't make much of a dent.
4000 Passats is better than last year but still far short of what you would expect for a car in the model's segment.
Not to mention the Toureg's decline. Is there a new one coming?
VW better hurry up with those coupes. But coupes don't really wow us American that much either. Especially the way VW prices their stuff.
But time will tell. By the way...Since this is the Civic vs, Golf forum..Let's check this years Civic sales vs. Golf sales....
http://automobiles.honda.com/info/news/article.asp?ArticleID=2006020150249&Categ- - - ory=currenthonda
Hmmm....I wonder just who IS buying those 17,000 VW's? And I wonder did they cross-shop? I for one did. And I actually love the new Jetta. That is one solid car. Bet rather expensive on the sticker, which is what they wanted when I was looking. The new 5 cylinder kind of drones a bit but the chassis is like a brick. But I , like the Wards article stated, am afraid of VW's reliability record.
I need another reliable car. If Golf's are not popular, but they are reliable, even if they are not comfortable or drive smoothly, then this is the next car for me! I'd appreciate ANY AND ALL input on this. Any advice on fuel efficiency, repair costs, etc. Thanks!
For more on VWs, check out the VW Vortex at:
http://vwvortex.com/
-----------------------------------------------------
Re: > I need another reliable car. If Golf's are not popular, but they are reliable, even if they are not comfortable or drive smoothly, then this is the next car for me! I'd appreciate ANY AND ALL input on this. Any advice on fuel efficiency, repair costs, etc. Thanks!<
VW has, also, always made great engines; since the original Bug that routinely runs 500,000+ miles. Their cars while Heavy are great and their “high end” Audi line is simply an Extension of the VW line. Both VW and Audi’s have the same problems with electronic ignition block shorting ($200 aprox. and GM and Chrysler also have this problem.) and on, some models, weak clips holding the windows to their tracks, which has been fixed.
I have a used ’95 golf GTI with 230,000 miles that is still going strong. I also have an '04 R32 golf (3.2 liter, all wheel drive, but bad gas mileage) that I regularly use to embarrass the JapTuners around town.
If I was looking for a NEW car I would get a Golf TDI (diesel) 5000 miles between oil changes and 50 MPG (my friend has a new '03 Beatle TDI and gets 49 MPG average highway AND city).
I am actually looking to trade the OLD GTI for an OLD TDI Golf.
Here is an idea.. go to a junk yard and see what wrecked Hondas look like next to wrecked VWs. If I am ever in a bad accident I want to be in the German car.
Never heard of Honda fuel injection "shorting out". That's a new one. My new to me 1996 Civic EX sedan just got 37 mpg with mixed use. This is my third 1996 Civic EX and the second one with over 100K. No fuel injection problems just great gas mileage.
Here's an idea. Good cars are usually rewarded with excellent resale throughout their useful lives and exceptional history of reliability. Check any data on 10 year old VW Golfs's vs Honda Civics with equal mileage. See if you would still want to keep one for a long while. Maybe a lease though.
And when you adjust for sales, the number of horror stories told about VW products challenges GM products. And it goes beyond the cars themselves. It extends to dealership and manufacturer customer service also. It's scary.
There are to many variables to consider the resale price of cars like these after 10 years and 150,000 miles. Like whos will be stolen, who paid more insurance, price of gas, how fast the body goes out of style, trim, etc. I am not willing to do that much research / work. AutoTrader has an interesting tool:
link title but still does not take into account everything.
AND what is this about fuel injection?
Not much research to do. Probably only a few more clicks than it took to create that last post saying that you weren't willing to do the research. Yet willing to post that you aren't willing to research. Many of those resale variables are taken into account when values are given. that's why they ask what level of cleanliness the car is.
And speaking of variables. I would think the variables involved in assessing the severity of an accident by looking at the wreckage to be much less accurate than simply checking KBB and or Consumer Reports.
Then I anctiously await your detailed economic evaluation and comparison of the VW Golf and Honda Civic and their long term ownership economies.
I expect that you will consider all of the variables that I listed previously and preferably a few more as well.
Also KBB and Consumer Reports do NOT do crash tests.
Volkswagen, Europe's largest carmaker, warned yesterday that it could axe up to 20,000 jobs at its core VW brand and close several loss-making German plants in a restructuring designed to restore profits.
Bernd Pischetsrieder, chief executive, told VW's 103,000 German employees that their productivity was low, plants recorded very high losses and some component operations were uneconomical.
Now for the crazy part. I want heated seats,regular gas and a nav system.
I've been reading horror stories on here about VW for 3 years.
What if, I buy a Golf with all the above as Honda doesn't offer heated seats in their Civic, or a H/B model.
I would spend the extra bucks for an extended warranty.
The new Golf will be out in a few months (end of June to end of July for the various models). I know you mentioned regular gas (which the 2.5l engine - same as in the Jetta - will take), but you may also want to consider the new 2.0TFSI engine. It is much more powerful, but uses less gas. In the end, you will likely break even, although it requires premium gas. You can test drive it in the GTI or in the Jetta/GLI.
I agree with your post (my '96 Golf GL AT is going strong), however, I don't think the 2.0TFSI engine will be available in the USA. I may be wrong. The new 2.5L is a more powerful engine than the current 2.0L but is also less fuel efficient. Always a trade-off somewhere, eh? I just wish we'd get more TDIs in the USA, but that's not VW's fault.
A family friend (with the 99 NBeetle Turbo) just spent $2200 on electical problems after 2 months at the dealer repair shop.
It IS a blast to drive, though, more fun than my Honda. But her New Beetle cost $25,000 new, another $3100 since then after p0st-warranty-repairs.
Get the Warranty and a friendship with the people at Hertz rent-a-car. You'll be fine.
The only reason why I didn't buy another VW is price - the Golf's around me (PA) have been pretty expensive and I was able to get a really good deal on the Civic. Also, I'm not sure about the quality of VW's Mexico factory. Anything from Germany wouldn't be an issue.
Cheers,
MidCow
It is currently available in the 3-door US MKV GTI (and in the Jetta, the GLI, Passat, A3, and A4). It will be available in the 5-door GTI starting July. Whether it will ever be in the US Golf likely depends on US sales: in the US, the Jetta is the strong seller; elsewhere, it is the Golf.
I need 5 doors and like this engine - so the choice is easy for me. You can paint the middle of the GTI grill body color, to make it look a bit less aggressive...
The only reason why I didn't buy another VW is price - the Golf's around me (PA) have been pretty expensive and I was able to get a really good deal on the Civic. Also, I'm not sure about the quality of VW's Mexico factory. Anything from Germany wouldn't be an issue.
Yes, a 2001 Civic would have better fit and finish than a 1985 Golf - but not any recent models compared side-by-side in the same model year. There is no question that inside materials, ergonomics, and outside paint, finish, and general assembly of the Golf is superior. Reliability is another issue, as discussed.
As a side note, the US MkV GTI and Golf are built in Wolfsburg, not that it matters.
Within one year this happen
1. New half shaft $225
2. New exhuast $250--great deal
3. New slave cylinder $520
4. New radiator $320
5. New Thermostat $120
6. New rear brakes and 1 new caliper $520
Total form 11/05--2/06 $1955.00
Guess what? Needs new timing belt ($600+)
To bad i won't have to put that in beacuse it was stolen 3 weeks ago!
I also thought i was buying this car from a reliable owner
So what did i get?
1990 Volkswagen Corrado G60
I was told that this is one of the least reliable cars, but i don really care any more. Why?
1.Better performance
2.Handles better
3.More options
4.Looks 10x better
5.Unforgettable ride! :P
I've bought over 10 used Civics and haven't done any coolant system work on any of them. I have bought a couple halfshafts and timing belts though. Keep us posted on that Corrado after you've owned it for a while. I'm sure you coulda said the same stuff about the Integra right after you bought it.
The Corrado didn't get such a sorry reputation for nothing. They really didn't sell that many of them to get such a bad reputation. Something musta really been wrong wit em. TMV has em around $1000 though. Not a bad buy.
I love the drive of the VW too though. I've driven quite s few of them. The new Jetta drives like it was cast from a solid brick. But the new 5 cylinder engine was gutless and sounded labored. I know you have to rev a Honda, but at least the engine loves it.
Not a fan of turbos or diesels. And combining them with the VW reliability history is even more worrisome to me. I'll take a Toyota or Honda hybrid instead if I wanted max gas mileage.
I don't have to profess my personal history with my Hondas to prove anything. VW doesn't have its reputation for nothing. Hyundai and Kia are proving that you can turn your reputation around with hard work and perseverance. Maybe the new Jetta and Golf will turn the reliability coin over for VW. The Toureg hasn't.
But hey...Somebody has to buy them. If you just want a VW, there's nothing wrong with that. All of them couldn't be bad. You just can't use "reliability" as a cornerstone of the debate. Safety, driver's car, and durable maybe, but it just might not start every morning.
"If you don't want to do anything but put gas in a car and it runs and runs, get a Honda."
That's funny. That's like saying it's better to be a diabetic because having a working pancreas is just too easy. Or how about Kidney failure. Dialysis every other day adds to the life experience.
I think the VW is probably the more durable (I've never swung my bodyweight from a door, or been off-roading in a New Beetle, so I'll take your word.), while the Honda is the more reliable one.
Many people forget that not-everyone has their priorities in rush-protection. I live in Birmingham, AL. The only snow I've seen this year was what we'd call a dusting, and it didn't even show up in the grass or roads, just things like our elevated deck. No salt at all this year, or since 1998, for that matter. That was the last time Birmingham, AL saw any measurable snow.
My granddad (Pop, as he's known to me!) drove a 1987 Civic for 260,000 miles, sold it for $1,000 back in 2002, and it was rust free except for one place about a 1/2 inch in diameter, where a rock had hit the hood, peeled the paint, and he had not fixed it.
I don't plan to be driving the same car at 260,000 miles.
Maybe I should though; I have 158,000 on my '96, and it runs great.
If you want a track car, BUY a track car. Me, I'd rather have a rock solid well handling box that can eat up anything an urban road can throw at the car. That's a tough challange, and to its credit __some__ of the VW's out there do a pretty good job dealing with it.
It's too bad VW and Audi are so inflexible wrt some options on their cars - they seem to feel AWD must be only on a sports car with rubber band tires and low travel suspension. Sad.
What else can you expect? My 10 year old Honda has run me $300 with 159,500 miles so far. That was for a cooling fan motor and included labor. Just the diff in VW reliability and Honda reliability. I'm on the same tranny, suspension, rear brakes, all main engine parts minus belts, A/C, etc...
Doesn't drive like a VW, but I get to drive it anytime I want since it's never in the shop. It's a balance i like.
should i keep searching for a honda or try for a vw?