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Comments
If your compression turns out to be good, the next areas where the problem might be are in the EGR or the ignition system. If the EGR valve is sticking partly open; it can destroy the idle quality and cause hard starting. So I would remove the EGR valve, thoroughly clean the carbon out of it, and make sure the valve closes completely when it is released. If you are not up to doing this yourself; have a mechanic do it. The vacuum hoses which control the EGR system and the distributor advance (on non XFI models) can also cause problems is the hoses are connected improperly or are damaged or leaking.
You said the car "sparks good" but this doesn't mean much, if the conclusion was arrived at by just looking at the spark. A spark which looks strong to the eye may actually be weak enough to cause many starting and running problems. The best way to service the ignition system is to measure the resistance of ALL the plug wires with an ohmmeter. Each wire (including the wire from the coil to the distributor cap) must have no more than 1,000 ohms resistance for each inch of length; so an 8 inch long wire cannot have more that 8,000 ohms resistance. If any wire exceeds that specification; replace the entire set of plug wires. The distributor cap and rotor can cause problems if there are any cracks, arc tracks or carbon deposits on the inside surface. Certain cheaply manufactured distributor caps can also cause misfiring, even when they are new and look clean. NAPA parts stores sell the best caps for Metros; under their premium quality line. Some brands of spark plugs (namely NGK) just will not run consistently in the Metro engine. Autolite # 63 and AC Delco # R42CXLS are the best performing plugs in this motor. And the plug gap should be set to .039" Many plugs do NOT come pre gapped; so don't assume the gap does not have to be checked.
If your car is an XFI model (which does not have a vacuum advance on the distributor), the timing cannot be checked without first disabling the electronic advance by shorting the check connector; as recommended in the manufacturer's instructions for checking the timing. And if your Metro has the distributor with two vacuum advance diaphragms; the vacuum hoses for both those diaphragms must be disconnected and plugged; before you can properly check or set the timing. If you set the timing without disconnecting those advance hoses; it will end up being WAY, WAY too retarded.
I hope this helps!!!
Even if it's more expensive, when everything is tallied, I get 120 Km for free compared to using regular.
My 94 sedan has the XFi cam and a final drive gear set from a 4cylinder. I get phenomenal gas "milleage".
I also own a convertible, that I will never sell, but it now sports for the summer, the complete drive train from a turboed Firefly........you got to live a little....Hum....this sounds so right!
I just replaced the back half of my Metro exhaust (from resonator to muffler). The replacement I found is in two parts instead of one: one pipe is flanged for the other to slide into it halfway back, just by the back of the rear tire. It came with a U-bolt type exhaust clamp, but every week or so I check it and the pipes are pulling out, the clamp isn't holding. I'm not sure I can get it tighter, but is it not tight enough? Or is there another way to keep the one from shaking loose and sliding out? I'd rather not have it come apart and cause my car to do a forward flip if I can help it.
Any insight is appreciated, but go easy on me, I'm a newbie to this DIY thing....
Thanks,
Steve in Florida
The important thing about mounting exhaust systems is that they MUST be flexible enough to allow for movement of the pipe; which often becomes as much as an inch or two longer from expansion when it heats up, and also needs to swing from side to side as the engine moves on its mounts or the car body sways. For this reason; muffler hangers are usually made of a heavy woven material (sort of like an industrial strength belt). You can buy muffler hangers in a variety of lengths and sizes from most auto supply stores.
The professional way to stop the pipes from separating would be to have them welded together; but you could also do it by adding a second U-bolt clamp next to the present one. In order to prevent sliding, those clamps should be tightened enough to slightly crush the flange. This may require a long ratchet handle and a socket; rather than using short handled open end wrenches. But please bear in mind that if the muffler or pipe is rigidly mounted; the sliding joint may be an indication that there is no other place to absorb movement or vibration. If you weld pipes together in such a situation; the stresses will then be applied to the internal welds or seams in the muffler; which will typically lead to the muffler coming apart.
Of course after reading carefully the description of your car I would say: GO FOR IT!
Just pour in some windshield washer and HIT the road.
That is why the only way to sanely determine whether it is worth $650 to buy a 17 year old Geo Metro is to first have it thoroughly inspected and evaluated by an experienced, honest, and qualified mechanic; or by a diagnostic center like the AAA has in most metropolitan areas.
Even the most wonderful, economical model of car can become a dreaded albatross around your neck; if the particular one you buy has been neglected or mistreated badly enough. SO BE WARNED.
for 5,995.00 back in 1996. It was son's car so I learned a lot. While in Med school
in Berkley he had the same problem. It turned out that the "L"Bracket that holds on the Alternator with 3 -14 mm machine bolts was cracked. Thus the Alternator was not
perfectly in line thus a whine and burnt rubber smell. Got a used one at Pick Ur Part
Junk yard. Also grabbed the Alternator which turned out to be original actually
MADE IN JAPAN. It was quick work to take the "L" Bracket off and replace mine
had a hair line crack at the bolt area. Problem solved! Take yours off strong light
give it a good visual get a T square and check it very carefully. It is made of thin
sheet metal no wonder why it cracks!
Did you check the compression before removing the head?
What was the numbers from 1 to 3?
The fact that there is no heat from the heater indicates that either there is a large air pocket trapped in the cooling system, which prevents the water from being pumped through the heater core; or that the water is leaking so rapidly into the cylinders that it cannot be pumped through the entire system.
If the head has been resurfaced; and a substantial amount of material had been removed; the head bolts will then sometimes bottom in their threaded holes before the head has been tightened enough to compress the gasket. And that will cause massive water leakage into the cylinders. There are two ways to deal with such a situation: One is to remove all the head bolts, and run a bottoming tap into each bolt hole; to clean up the lower portion of the threads. The other way is to install a flat washer under the head of each bolt; which is thicker than the amount removed from the head surface. This will prevent the bolts from bottoming.
And, of course, a torque wrench MUST be used to tighten the head bolts to factory torque specifications; in the recommended tightening sequence. And any trapped air must be bled from the system (either by opening a bleed valve; when there is one. Or by loosening the highest radiator hose connection and adding more coolant until all the air escapes.
http://www.teamswift.net/
I'm sure that you will find one. In fact I'm going soon to a place that has loads of parts.
For your info: Suzuki and Geo are the same. Austalia parts site have one with added brake lights. Expensive but.....nice.
If I find one I'll contact you here. Keep visiting.
we gave to Arnold for 1,000.00 . I too had the logo plastic crack. I super glued
it together at first then after awhile it cracked again. Then I got a piece of wood
and made a new logo by burning engraving it.
The neutral safety switch is wired in series between the ignition switch starting contacts and the starter solenoid. The purpose of that switch is to prevent the starter from being activated when the transmission is in gear; but to allow starting when the transmission is in either Neutral or Park. Since neutral safety switches usually have separate contacts for the neutral and park positions; it is often the case that one of those contacts goes open, while the other one is still functioning. So I suggest you try starting with the shift lever in neutral, and see if it will start consistently there. If it does; that would be a zero cost fix for this problem.
If I remember correctly, the 1994 Metros had a short lived, infamous safety device which prevented the starter from running when there was a weight on any of the seats, and that seat's seatbelt was not buckled. So you also might try keeping all the seat belts buckled; regardless of whether or not the seat is occupied. Some of those weight sensors will activate from vibration or from very small weights (like a book) placed on the seat. I believe the seat weight sensors can be deactivated by disconnecting their plug, which is underneath each seat. There may be more than one plug under a seat; so you need to find out which one is the right one.
The neutral safety switch (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=444747) has many different wires on it, which serve many different functions; and would thus be intimidating to bypass. I would recommend against trying to do so.
You can rig up a professional grade means of bypassing both the ignition switch start contacts and the neutral safety switch, by buying a 10 amp, 120 volt pushbutton switch at a hardware store, mounting it in a convenient location within reach of the driver's seat, and connecting it between the battery positive terminal and the small blade terminal on the starter solenoid; where the ignition switch wire normally attaches. This will require long connecting wires (I recommend buying at least 10 feet of 12 or 14 gauge stranded, single conductor electrical wire) Large hardware stores ususally carry that type of wire in bulk rolls, and will sell you as much as you want. It is much cheaper to buy bulk wire from hardware stores than to buy prepackaged wire from auto parts or electronic supply stores. You can run the wire from the underhood area into the passenger compartment by poking small holes through the grommet in the firewall around the speedometer cable, or other similar cables. The safest way to connect the wire to the starter is by crimping a female quick disconnect terminal to the end of the wire; after first stripping off about 1/4" of insulation from the end. Disconnect the stock ignition switch wire from that solenoid terminal, tape it up, and leave it unused. This type of connection will require using the push button for starting all the time, but it will eliminate the need to be cautious about never pushing the button while the ignition switch is turned off (which could have damaged the system by sending power back up the ignition switch wire; if the ignition switch wire had not been removed and was still connected to the starter).
Regardless; the CEL should not be flashing codes when it is not deliberately put into diagnostic mode. So this sounds like someone else may have left a paper clip or jumper in the check connector (or else there is a wiring short at the check connector).
Try disconnecting the battery for two or three minutes and turning the headlight switch on during some of that time, then shut the lights off and reconnect the battery. This should clear any stored codes in the computer. If the CEL keeps flashing; there is a wiring problem related to the check conector.
Okay, from all I have now read a faulty O2 sensor would NOT cause my car to just not start. So I am back to my original question. Only thing I did was replace the oil pan. Only connections I unhooked were the O2 sensor near the catalytic converter, and the oil pan sensor. Why has the ECU shut sown the ignition? How do I reset it?
If there really is no spark from either coil; check for 12 volts at the power wire to the ignition module when the key is on. There might be a blown fuse or a bad relay. If there is no spark at either coil, but there is 12 volts at the ignition module; the camshaft position sensor may have gone out, or its signal wire could have been broken or disconnected.
It is also possible that the timing belt has broken or jumped out of position while the motor was being worked on. This is surprisingly commmon. Checking the compression in all cylinders is a crude way to confirm that the timing belt is properly aligned. Compression of less than 160psi suggests that the belt may have jumped or broken.
Just a little note for you in case you see some other goof like me create the same problem. I found my solution on another Geo forum. Check it out:
Dear mwebb!
You saved my sanity!
I have been racking my brain trying to figure what the heck was going on with my 98 metro 1.3 not starting after i repaired my oilpan! A rock kicked a micro-hole in it causing it to leak oil badly. I removed the pan, repaired the hole, put on a new oil filter, a new gasket with new rtv sealant all around. Great, done, but the car won't start. Couldn't figure this out for the life of me until I came upon your forum comment where in you said
"another view
note spark does not begin until a voltage threshold is crossed in CMP and CKP
so
it is possible that a CKP or CMP sensor does output AC voltage , but that the amplitude is TOO low for the ECM to see it
causing
no start OR stall
an example is when those who do not know better replace oil pan gaskets with a Cork gasket instead of RTV [note:WHICH IS WHAT I DID!]
distance to CKP from the toothed wheel is TOO great and CKP amplitude is TOO low
Engine has no spark no fuel"
Thank God he wrote for the last three lines he posted, it SO solved my problem!! Good man!!
The common practice of confusing electronic coils with modules particularly irks me; because it seems to be very prevalent among employees at salvage yards; which results in them mispricing single and double outlet electronic coils as if they had modules in them. This forces customers of those places to pay twice as much for an electronic coil as it really is worth.
Duly noted about the coils. Good info! Dropped the pan today, took off the newly added gasket, replaced with rtv, then re-installed the pan. Guess what.... VAROOOOOM said Jenny when I turned the ignition key. So moral of the story is:
ON METRO/SWIFT/FIREFLY CARS NEVER USE ANYTHING OTHER THAN RTV SILICONE SEALANT AS A GASKET FOR YOUR OILPAN!
NO CORK OR ANY OTHER OILPAN GASKET BUT RTV SEALANT, OR YOUR CAR IS DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!
Check out the rubber lines for any blockage, including those going to the charcoal canister (if you have one) check the cap also.
The problem you describe is most likely caused by a clogged fuel filter. When the fuel filter becomes restricted, it will flow less fuel when the fuel level in the tank is low, which leads to a lean mixture condition. The fuel filter on your Metro is located underneath the car, on the driver's side, just in front of the rear wheel. This filter has a metal cover below it, which is held on by two bolts.
In that answer, I listed several different possible causes for your problem. From your post today, it sounds like you either didn't even read that answer; or didn't bother to test the things I mentioned. In order for me to help you; you'll need to communicate better: I need to know whether you tested the items I mentioned, and what the results were. Otherwise; it would be a waste of my time to keep writing the same things over and over again. THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM IS ONE OF THE THINGS I MENTIONED.
If you don't know how to test the items I listed, please tell me so, and also let me know whether you have a volt-ohmmeter or a 12 volt test light, and whether you'd be willing to follow instructions about how to test these items. There is no magic way I can tell you which part is causing this problem without having the information about the results of testing them. If you're not willing to go to the trouble of testing these things; then you're wasting your time and my time by posting questions on this site. The only way this problem can be fixed is if you do what it takes to fix it; or you take the car to a shop and pay a mechanic to fix it. NOBODY can tell you what is causing the problem without either you or them testing parts. The information you have already posted is neither complete or specific enough to sort out all the possibilities. There are too many possible causes to make it practical to just guess about a solution.
If you haven't signed up to receive e-mail notices when someone posts a new response in this forum; you'll never know when someone answers your question (unless you regularly look through all the posts, or look at your original post to see whether any answers to it have been posted). If you don't know how to sign up for e-mail alerts about new posts; ask the forum host: http://www.carspace.com/pf_flyer
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now my question is ...how to reset computer's throttle switch and idle air bypass screw? because one mechanic moving this stop for throttle linkage...to increase idle speed because he thought that low idle speed is cause of rough idle.
If you want to go through this process; buy a compression tester, or pay a mechanic to test the compression in all the cylinders, and post all the pressure readings here. I'll then tell you whether the compression is good enough to proceed further; or what must be done to make the compression right.
I have had a compression check...and surprisingly it was showing 60 in all cylinders and the way car runs I could not believe it could be true so I have had a mechanic check and he said nothing wrong with compression..he said it is around 120 in each...not uneven.....
spark plugs and spark wires, distributor and rotor, air filter, fuel filter is recently changed....spark plugs were purchased from napa and it has gap of .042 and it is ngk brand...and part no. 7133....
let me know if you want more details...
please advice...
As soon as you posted the comment that your car idles roughly, and that some mechanics have worked on it and were not able to smooth it out; I knew that this is a compression problem. But I wanted to have it proved; because I sometimes am wrong. The factory service manual lists the compression pressure for the 3 cylinder Metro of this era. The compression of a new motor is originally 195 psi (which is about 40 pounds higher than most other motors). The factory manual also lists the lowest allowable compression pressure with which the motor can run properly. The minimum allowable compression pressure in this motor is 156 psi (which is 20% below the standard figure for a new engine). 20% below normal is a standard that I have also learned when I first took auto shop courses; and I later taught my students this same standard in 2001; when I taught engine theory at Motorcycle Mechanics Institute. So this is not something I have imagined or guessed about. It is a hard and fast standard which was universally adopted by auto manufacturers after years of experience. When the compression in an engine drops to more than 20% below the new figure; it becomes impossible to adjust the engine to run properly. And poor idle quality is the most obvious sign that this has happened. The fact that the compression is even in all the cylinders does not eliminate the requirement that it also must be higher than the minimum allowable limit. What the evenness does mean is that the compression leakage is probably not so much from the valves and cylinder head; but instead is probably leaking past the pistons and rings. When valves burn; the compression usually becomes uneven between cylinders. So, my friend; your Metro's engine is worn out.
In a situation like this; any attempts to tune the engine to run more smoothly are likely to upset the delicate balance by which it keeps running at all. And this usually will make it run much worse, or quit entirely. THIS IS WHY I WANTED YOU TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS; BEFORE TELLING YOU HOW TO ADJUST THE IDLE SETTINGS. So, if you intend to keep driving this car without overhauling or replacing the motor; I would strongly urge you to leave well enough alone by not messing with the adjustments.
If you can afford to fix it, and thus gain a motor that will run much better and use far less fuel than it ever has while you owned it; and will also keep running well for many years to come, my best advice is to buy a remanufactured motor from www.hiperformer.com Hiperformer Engines is a premium quality remanufacturer in Spokane, Washington. They are considered one of the top remanufacturers in the US; which is why the highly respected chain of NAPA auto parts stores has chosen to exclusively sell Hiperformer engines. But Hiperformer also sells direct to the public, at amazingly low prices. And their remanufactured engines come with a 7 year, 100,000 mile warranty. They ship motors anywhere in the country (as well as overseas) for very low prices. Last time I checked; their price for a remanufactured Metro engine was about $1,350.
If you buy one of these motors; it will probably come without the distributor, throttle body, valve cover, oil pan, or intake and exhaust manifolds. So those parts will have to be removed, cleaned, and transferrred from your old motor.
If you get such a motor, write again, and I'll give you some tuning tips.
So, can you please suggest other options ...that I can try? I will definitely check compression again...but could please suggest more ideas....one mechanic told me about changing idle speed control motor.....can you suggest where do I find under the hood? some one suggested me changing egr valve and other suggested changing coolant temperature...but I trust you ...so I would start with your suggestion...the mechanic adjust the it to higher speed and still problem was not solved...so should I lower the idle speed using Allen?
Thanks again.