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The Volkswagen Golf IV
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Comments
But these guys have hundreds of cars lined up at the docks. The dealer I have been working with offered me $50 over invoice on most any Golf, including the one that I specifically requested down to the last detail. He ordered it from the port, and I have put no money down. I called him today and asked how much if I change my mind and buy the silver 5-spd turbo he just got in, and he said $500 over invoice because they are hot(turbo, not silver.) So next week, I can go down there, drive them both, and take the one I want.
The deal you got isn't bad, so don't despair. But I guarantee they will find you the car.
One last thought: Got to the VW site and look up dealers. You can view dealer inventories online. In general, this system is very accurate. I have called three dealers about inventory I saw on the web, and they were amazed that I knew they had it.
(you know, "wait, I'll have to check.........oh, yeah, I just got one in....")
Also, check out buyer's clubs like massbuy.com. For very cheap money($15/yr) you get excellent no haggle pricing, like for example, $50 over invoice.
I,too, am sure they'll find you your car pretty quickly. Esp, since Boston is probably a port of entry for the cars. And yes, thank you, I love the Indigo Blue w/grey interior. I could have had the Blue with beige interior, but I really liked the looks of the grey better. I'm also hoping the grey won't show the dirt and dog fur as much as I knew the beige would.
And no, : ) I luckily do not need the cold weather package here in the Bay Area. That's 1 reason why I moved out here from Ohio 9 years ago!
I was informed by the dealer that they will charge me $199.5 as documentation fee...I remember someone here said it only costs him around $50 for documentation...I am not sure if it differs from state to state, i am in Boston area...
The dealer tell me that I will need to pay $199.5 which includes title, a tank of fuel, and detailing...plus another $80 for registration stuff. Insurance and tax are not included. According to him, after paying $199.5 + $80, I am all set with all paperwork and all i need to do is to drive the car home and enjoy it.
What do you guys think?
thanks!
Many people naively think that the quote they get online is some wonderful insider's price that only they get because they are part of some elite computer-savvy group. But car dealers are still car dealers.
Consumer's Digest did a study that showed that people who bought cars online got a better deal than many people who walked into dealerships, but paid more than people who went into delerships and haggled. By about 3%.
Your best bet is still to arm yourself with all of the info you can and then go in swinging (metaphorically, of course).
By the way, a $199.50 documentation fee is hogwash. And as for charging you to clean your car before giving it to you, well, why don't you tell the dealer that they need to pay you a $1,000 check-signing fee before you can hand over the down payment?
Don't let your enthusiasm for your first new car be taken advantage of. Be careful out there.
Today they called me that they should be able to get me the silver GLS late next week...just can't wait to drive it.
What am I supposed to check with the car on the day I pick it up?
Have a good weekend!
I just bought a new Reflex Yellow Beetle for $19,000 out the door.
Is that statement true? You don't know, so you take my word for it. Sticker on the car is $21,000, and while $19,000 is not unreasonable from my point of view, I doubt that many people will get one at that price.
Dealers have authority on their side. You have nothing. Nothing. I can walk into a dealer and say, The guy at Happy Face VW quoted me a price of $100 under invoice for any Golf on the lot, and he has just the one I want. But you also have it and you are closer. The dealer will say "bring it in to me in writing." He does this because he knows that no dealer will write a price down and let you walk out with it.
Have you ever been in negotiations, and asked to think about it? Has the salesman told you to take a copy of the worksheet with you so you can go over the numbers? No. Why? Because if he gives you a quote in writing, you can go to the next guy, who will beat the price by $50-$100, then you could take that worksheet to the next guy, and so on. Eventually, you would either find your best deal, or at least find the lowest price anyone would sell the car for.
That is not what the dealer is about. Remember a few messages ago, when I told you to watch out for the F&I manager? You weren't listening. The port fee is included in the invoice price. The floor planning fee is also included. Furthermore, VW pays the dealer for prep, initial floorplanning, and holdback. Personally, I would not deal with a salesman who tried to take advantage of me like that, because it is insulting.
You have spent a great deal of time and effort finding the right car at the right price, only to have the salesman and F&I guy pile fees right back on. Let me ask you this: When all is said and done, are you buying the car for much less than sticker? Include everything except tax and title, which you have to pay to the RMV.
The guy I am dealing with has told me all fees right up front. He is selling the car at $50 over invoice plus $55 doc fee, which includes running plates, title, etc. He will still make about $600 on the car, not including other kickbaks I am not aware of. And he gets that just for ordering the car from the prot and letting me buy it from him.
I was looking hard at the Honda Civic EX because it is so much less money than the VW, but I walked out when he quoted me a great price and then started talking about doc fees, prep fees, undercoating packages that I HAVE to buy....
The name of the game is cutthroat, and there are only three rules:
1. Just because it's printed doesn't mean its true.
2. Just because I'm smiling doesn't mean I'm not lying.
3. The person who leaves money on the table loses.
Well, there are a whole bunch more, but I've gone on too long.
i didn't pay too much attention when you mentioned F&I guys last time because I thought that I didn't need financing from the dealer. I have checked out the fees on RMV webpage and found that
title: $50
Registration: $25
plus a tank of fuel which costs not more that $25. If the dealer can run all these for me, I guess a $50 transaction fee is good enough to pay for their labor. All together the total should not be more than $150 while he is now wanting to charge me for $280 !!!
I have signed the worksheet that I will pay $18500 for the car. They might not allow me to argue the documentation fee but I WILL try my best to argue with them even though it is a little bit late. Is it possible to argue it with them upon picking up the car? I have already pay $2000 deposit to them , would they have more power then?
Anyway, I will try. Thanks a lot!!! At least I learn great lessons.
aqueen
But I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know.
I should have been clear earlier: The F&I guy is the person who closes the sale with you, once you have negotiated a price with the salesman. He, or she, will list(pile on, really) the fees, try to sell you extended warranties, rust protection, etc.
A good F&I person will double or triple the profits on the deal.
A final consolation: You're getting a great car. Enjoy it.
carlady/host
today the dealer called me and said that he was not able to locate the fully loaded silver GLS in the New England at this point (though i really doubted it) but only silver without the cold weather package (i.e. everything but the cold weather package). And he is willing to deduct that amount of money from the price we agreed on previously, if I can accept the sivler with a cold weather package.
I took this opportunity to argue with him on the $199.5 documentation fee. He at first was very firm on it but then I used the logic and info I learnt from all of you to fight back. He became impatient at the beginning and raised his voice on me when I said that I didn't feel comfortable and fair with the charges. Then he suggested that the fair option would be "don't buy this car". I was quiet for 3 seconds and told him that I will take his "fair option" and shop elsewhere. Then he asked me to hold on and soon came back to me with an offer of lowering the car price for another $100. He said he can't change the documentation fee printed but can substitute it with the discount for the car. Then I said yes.
I didn't move further to get around $55 documentation fee as jmorriss did for his because I saw that's the best I can do in my situation. Anyway $99.5 is much better than $199.5 and I want to thank all of you for giving me valuable advices these days...
I will pick up the car next Tuesday...a silver w/o the cold weather package, not perfect but ok...
aqueen
carlady/host
Good for you!
And don't worry about the cold weather package.
Heated windshield wiper nozzles?!? No thanks!
That's the price of a Honda accord lx or se, I don't get it, when I saw the invoice price for the gl ( $ 13,903) and the msrp for $14,900 I thought it was a good deal. I don't understand how come the golf compete with a honda civic dx that is $11k, better quality and liability, and they sell a golf for the price of a sedan. I checked the prices of the used golfs on the paper and they lose a lot of value I am really afraid of buying a golf now, I don't know if I should look for something else.
When I laughed at the $3k markup on a Hyundai Elantra, the salesman told me it was there for their in-house credit dept. People with poor credit get charged a higher price for the vehicle to cover the extra risk. It sounds plausible to me, especially when you consider the Ugly Duckling Corp. business model which charges high prices for old (and often pretty poor) vehicles.
The conclusion is that the increasingly ubiquitous markup on most vehicles need only worry you if your credit is bad - otherwise just ignore it!
Kidding. But, one dealer flat out told me, "Hey, we have people around here who come in and write checks for these cars and drive them off the lot!"
Granted there is a lot of new wealth around here, but I think he was being a jerk.
Anyway, I got mine from Cardinale VW in Salinas. (cardinalevw.com) ask for Peter Savale. Great deal. No hassle. It's a little far to drive, but well worth it for me. I love my 2000 Golf GLS!
Also, about financing, I wouldn't ever go through a dealership unless a)You're getting one of those 1.9 for 48 months or whatever type deals or b)You dont have good enough credit to get a loan on your own. In most (All?) states that F&I guy can tack up to 3% on to the loan that he's getting you through a bank and they don't even have to tell you about it. The bank just sends the dealership a check for the difference and they made a load of dough off you just because you didn't want to get your own load.
I drove the Honda and it was real nice .. smooth ... quality feel .. but small for what I need.. Then just drove the Golf GLS 4 door..(all the dealer had ) and wasn't impressed...suspension seemed soft and lacking control..it was an auto and had nice acceleration at low speed but not at hight speed.. breaks seems soft also... just wasnt the feel i remember from my 1985 Jetta!!
Can anyone out there who owns one lend an opinion... have read some on here and some love them and some hate them..
Thanks
I just sold my 1990 Golf GL, and got into the 2000 Golf GLS. The new Golf handles much better than the old one, but is so much smoother that you don't feel like it.
I don't recommend the automatic on any VW. The engines are peppy little things, but the auto kills the pep.
Finally, to paraphrase my better half: They are both great cars. Buy the one you like the best, and enjoy it. She likes to keep it simple.
Good Luck!
New Golf. The new one is slightly bigger,
slightly slower, somewhat quieter inside. It's
supposed to have more horsepower, but they've
done it by running the same engine faster which
puts a whiney note in what sound does get in.
The 1999 does seem to be more vague in steering
on the road. It seems to have been americanized
in several ways, which is not a compliment to
american tastes.
That said, I'm keeping the new Golf. This is the
third one since 1975. The 1986 was a big jump
over the 1975 model. I'm worried that the 1999
model is what it is because only us old farts are
still buying the Golf. Oh well, I'll check back
in another 15 years.
A major reason I bought the 3rd Golf was Klaus,
the service manager. I like Golfs, but I'd
buy something else if this dealer lost Klaus.
I see what Chris was talking about too. The performance does feel more vague, but I think it is a difference in feel, moreso than a difference in actual performance(I guess that is a personal impression thing.)
Finally, yup, the VW's got personality. I've had 3 VW's now, and they are the only 'normal' cars that people will walk up to you and start talking about.( As opposed to, "I just love your Dodge Neon. The headlights are just so...round!" )
However, the car has no feel. I feel like I'm just floating along. The interior is plain-jane. I had a '85 Golf before and I'm longing to get another one and have just started looking.
My advice is if you enjoy driving and want to feel the road definitely go with a Golf. If you're just looking for point A to B transportation you can't beat the cost of the Civic.
Question: I am financing part of this car and wonder if the Golf would last me more than 4 years?? I have heard horror stories about VW that it would self-destruct the moment the warrenty expires. (ok, I have no one to blame since I knew this before I sign my life away, but still...) Is an extended bumper-to-bumper worth the money?? (about CAD$800 for that extra year). Can someone offer me some peace of mind that I have indeed made the right purchase, by letting go of the Honda??
Plus, how come the Golf does not have any park lights?? Does anyone know the voltage output of the front speakers? No matter how I adjust the "monsoon" system, they just don't seem to match up with the Sony speakers that I used to put in my Civic (and now collecting dust because I am not sure if they would fit the Golf)
mnn
I just sold my 1990 Golf with 160,000 miles on it, and bought a 2000 Golf. My prior vehicle was a 1987 Escort that basically refused to operate after 60,000 miles. Prior to that I had a 1972 Westfalia with 210,000 miles on it. I blew the clutch one day and drove 50 miles back to civilization with no clutch discs. Neither the pressure plate nor the flywheel needed replacement. I sold it 6 years ago and still see it sometimes. (I miss it!)
The concerns you have are noted and valid.
Many people have concerns about VW reliability. But that is because, (IMHO) VW can take a lot of abuse, and last a REALLY long time, IF you maintain them properly. Most of the people I know who drive like grandma have never had problems with their VW's. Many of the people I know who beat the heck out of their cars have complained when they had to replace a part or two.
My fiance has a 2000 New Beetle she loves, and has had no trouble in the 6 months she has owned it.
I would suggest that you wait until the factory warranty is about to run out, then, if you have had trouble with the car, you should buy the extended warranty. See, the thing with extended warranties is that they don't cover the things that usually break, like your clutch. Many people with the turbos and VR6 complain about smoking the clutch. Well, duh! That's what happens when you buy the hotrod. You have to maintain it. (drag racing at every light tends to burn clutches.)
Finally, I'm jealous. I just bought a 2000 Golf GLS, and so far I like it a lot. I would have liked the turbo, but only found out about it after ordering the 2.0, and didn't want to screw over the salesman who ordered me the exact car I wanted. As my fiancee says, if I had gotten the turbo, I would be in trouble. Lots of trouble.
Good luck with the car. If you take car of it, you'll have it for a really long time.
jmorris: I test drove the 2.0L and the Turbo back to back. I opted for the 2.0L mainly because I found it perfect for the driving I do, but I knew that if I got a Turbo, I'd be in lots of trouble with the law!
I took my 2 week old 2000 GTI VR6 in for an alignment to the VW dealer where I purchased the car. When I came home, there were numerous scratches and nicks on all four wheels. Immediately, I took it to the dealership, and showed the damage to the service advisor. He said to bring it back for the mechanic and service manager to have a look since they weren't there at the time. I told the advisor that the damage was from the alignment clamps that attach to the wheels. The advisor said, they would have to match the areas of damage with the alignment clamps. Then the dealership will decide what is appropriate, he said.
Please help! What will the dealer most likely do to get out of this one? I am going to ask the dealership to do whatever it takes to get the wheels the way it was prior to the alignment clamp damage. The car is only 2 weeks new!
VTECSI (I sold my civic si and bought the VR6!)
finally, the silver GLS arrived. I drove 40 miles to pick up the car last thursday. For the past few days, I've been driving it around the city and can't stop loving it more and more. Absolutely no complaints...the driver can feel the road (i guess that's why they said "drivers wanted") and my friends started telling me that the interior room is not as small as they thought and indeed it is quite comfortable for 4 people.
I am doing moving these days and the trunk is just wonderful... especially when I saw people struggle to try to fit a 20 in. TV into a Corolla :-)
I am not sure if it is a feature of German cars, I found that the angle it needs when making a turn is very small, compared to the so-called luxury Japanese car I had... this makes a lot of fun when I do turns and parkings
aqueen
Does anyone have any experience installing the front speakers on the GLS? I need some insight here.
Thanks.
mnn
Any recommendations on how I can take care of my 2000 GTI's leather interior?
GTIVR6
this is my first time on this website and i must say, i'm very impressed by the quality of the posts. you've said some really helpful stuff!
anyway, i'm looking to buy a new Golf GLS. I'm kind of wavering between the 2.0 and the 1.8T right now. does anyone know if there's a dramatic difference in the cost of insuring one vs. the other? unfortunately (for insurance purposes)i'm young and male, but my driving recod is clean.
also, does VW have any discounts for grad students that anyone know's about?
thanks.
med boy
Not sure about the discounts stuff, but there should be a discount for anti-theft system and ABS.
I test droved both 1.8T and 2.0. Except acceleration, I didn't feel too much difference(that was a big difference though). I bought 2.0 just because it's good enough for me and I do want to get into trouble. 1.8T is too quick:) Even with my 2.0, I always drive 85 mph on NJ's highway, which has a speed limit only 65 mph. If you live in midwest, maybe the 1.8T is more fun to drive.
BTW, blue paint only goes with GTI not Golf, I thought.
Good luck.
thanks!
carlady/host
But I must admit, I belong to the 'sucker' crowd who likes to have everything 'standard'. By that I mean that a factory option makes me feel more comfortable than getting it from the after market even if it means getting better equipment at a lower price... Silly eh?
What justifies this silly standpoint? Mainly, lack of technical understanding I guess... Like, do you have to reinforce the struts on the car if you change the shocks... Also, the belief that the 'aftermarket' is full of crooks (!I am being self-ironic of course!) and most of all, the fear of seeing the VW warranty voided!
Please, ...short of seeing a shrink, I will listen to all arguments as to why I should join the aftermarket crowd... HELP!
The last story I got was that VW is moving production of the Golf from Germany to Brazil. The dealer told me that I need to get my golf now because there wouldn't be anymore coming into the states until production was up and going in Brazil. Is there any truth to this story?
I usually order the cars I buy so I can get exactly what I want. I have had several dealers tell me that I cannot "order" a VW. They tell me I have to pick from what is on the lot or they may be able to trade with some other dealer to get what I am looking for.
I also do not want the Luxury package on my Golf. Both my wife and I are over 6 feet tall and the sunroof eats up too much headroom. I have looked at maybe 20 Golf GLS TDI's and everyone has the luxury package. The dealers tell me I can't get one with out the Luxury package or that they are extremely rare. If I don't want the luxury package it may take 6 months for one to come into the "system" for me to buy.
Finally, I usually drive vehicles with a standard transmission. I like the reliability, economy and life that I get from a standard. I typically keep a car for 200,000 mile or more and automatics don't have a reputation for holding up. However, I have been driving my wife's van with an automatic and found that I like it. I sometimes find myself with a cell phone in one hand a map in the other and I find its great not to have to change gears. Also one of my co-worker recently turned over 200,000 miles on his Infinity with an automatic, and another trading in a '96 Caravan with over 150,000 miles. Neither one ever had a transmission problem. I am wondering if I can expect the same life out of VW's automatic in the Golf with a TDI?
Thanks for any advise you have to offer.
I too, have heard from 3 different dealers that the production for Golf is to be moved to Brazil from mid-May, 2000, that no more German imports would land in North America. I was told that whatever that was out there was the complete stock (German) left, after that would be all Brazilian made. Not sure how much truth that is, but I live in Canada, and if the same stories were being told, maybe it is the truth?!
I agree with you that it is almost impossible to order a "custom" car with VW. When I bought my 1.8T, I went to 5 different dealerships and none can provide me the exact car that I want. One dealer even said something like "no one would want a car with no package, you have to have something!!". The Luxury package is very popular with dealers because of the alloy wheels, and unfortunately, the alloys comes with the sunroof. As far as I know, all my friends who bought VW ended up getting a car with something that they don't need/want. I have a sunroof in mine but then I am a good 4 inches shorter than you guys that headroom has not been a problem. I suggest you take the car (with the sunroof) for a serious drive and see how it feels. FYI, the "monsoon" sound system is really nothing special. In fact, I find mine worse than the aftermarket Sony that I used to have. Guess it must be the stock speakers and the position of the rear speakers (on the door panel instead of the dash), so you can spare that one if you can. Apart from the packages, there is also the colour. When I was picking my car, I was left with only red and black, so be prepared.
As far as transmission, I only drive standard so I am afraid I could not help.
Anyway, good luck.