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Comments
does anyone know how to open the fuel flap manually? there's nothing i can find in the manual about this, nor in the haynes manual for the car.
any help is appreciated!
A few months ago I heard about a study where it was shown that Japanese car buyers have a false sense of security in regards to the reliability of their cars. The subjects were found to claim their vehicles were reliable despite the fact they had to take their vehicles in for repairs on a more frequent basis compared to other makes.
Hyundai has made leaps and bounds in terms of quality, but their products just aren't to the point where I would take a chance buying them yet. Give them time to put out their next generation of automobiles and you might find one in my driveway (That's if they could get beyond looking ugly as sin, but that's subjective on my part).
Subaru, on the other hand, seems to be going in the opposite direction. People I know had less trouble with their Subaru's in the '90's than the more recent models.
Now maybe this is all geography and I happen to live in an area where things aren't the norm in terms of vehicle reliability. That's a possibility given many of the dealerships in the area have older sales staff from the wheeler-dealer era and are more concerned with making a quick buck so they can retire sooner rather than building a reputation of selling quality cars to their customers.
:shades:
its only been within the last 6 months have i encountered any problems with my GTI as a result of electrical issues. as of right now the heated seats, the autodefrosted side mirrors and the actuator to the fuel door filler are the only components that have failed aside from having to replace a fuse here and there. we've been driving our GTI's for over 4 years now and they're still great fun to drive and are without MAJOR problems.
I don't know where you get your reliability information, since you never post any actual data and your statements are generalizations.
1000% :surprise: :sick: :confuse:
Jetta Reliability
Golf reliability
Hyundai reliability (also shows VW way near the bottom)
I wanted a GTI (2 door). My wife wanted a 4 door Rabbit.
Now we can have both. Stoked! Waiting for one with leather and sunroof.
Hopefully I can talka good deal on it.
Why doesn't VW have the 4 door GTI on vw.com? Also no test drives on any car site I have been to. WTF?
Nice try.
If you're going to assassinate character, you're going to have to try MUCH harder.
Class dismissed.
Keep in mind that chipping your car will void the warranty, and that DSG problems with the STOCK engines have been reported/discussed on various forums, including Edmunds.
>Class dismissed.
If you're gonna be so defensive in thinking that my response was a character assassination attempt - then it's back to summer school for you.... :shades:
It's one thing when you have JD Power stats given from a "neutral" source (Edmunds), vs. a partisan source (Hyundai dealership).
Besides, I know from personal experience that with proper maintenance, VW powertrains will hold up much longer than Hyundais. Case in point, back in 1992, I was driving a 1987 VW Golf (that I purchased brand new) with 200,000 miles at the time. My co-worker purchased a 1992 Hyundai Excel brand new. Five years later, my Golf at 275,000 miles was still going strong while the Hyundai's drivetrain virtually disintegrated at 55,000 miles.
Now don't get me wrong, Hyundai has made leaps and bounds in quality since then, while VW's gremlins became more apparent, but based on my experience (good and bad) with VW's, I will still buy them over a Hyundai because they tend to be more durable over the long haul.
Today, I own a 1997 Jetta (185,000 miles) that doesn't burn a drop of oil and a 2003 Wolfsburg Jetta (75,000 miles) that has been relatively trouble free. I keep up the maintenance on these cars on a regular basis (I have the factory OBD II diagnostic computer/software), and I am more than confident that they will last (I normally keep my cars an average of 10 years) - despite the rampant unreliability reports.
Enjoy your Hyundai...
You're kidding, right? They both cite the same information source. Are you inferring the Hyundai dealer somehow altered the results of the JD Powers polls?? What ARE you inferring, exactly, because your "logic" so far has been wildly irrational.
Glad you had such good luck on your 1997 Jetta. Sadly you are in the distinct minority.
I am hopeful that VW has cleaned up their act. It'll take a few years to see how these new ones age.
If you buy a car based on an award you are a doofus.
If you brag that your car has won 'such and such' an award, you are a TOTAL doofus.
Read this cnn article:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/tipsandadvice/05/23/award_meanings/index.html
Do your own research, talk to a mechanic, and make a budget. Buy the car because you like it and you can afford it. Service the car and don't whine when something breaks, because it is something that machines do. Stop talking about these worthless lame awards.
The JD Power awards are an indication - nothing more, of what may lie ahead. I doubt that a car that starts off with reliability/quality issues IMPROVES over time.
I've never bought a car because it won a Car & Driver or whatever award.
You're really going off the deep end about "dont whine when something breaks, because it it something that machines do". OMG you're a total RIOT!
You want to know what breaks? POORLY DESIGNED / BUILT machines! Well-built and designed ones DO NOT, because that's what "Quality" is! Duh.
Part of doing one's research is to check for quality ratings, and JD Power is *one* of many. Consumer Reports is another. It's also interesting to check the enthusiast discussion boards, such as here @ Edmunds, or, in the case of VW, VWVortex.com, which documents many of the VW reliablity issues (also the good sides of the product, naturally).
BTW - you've never answered me about why posting a link to Hyundai dealer which references a JD Power award is a problem. Are you claiming that the dealer altered the findings, or what? Oh, I know - you tried to change the topic, and say "don't pay attention to awards".
I believe I hear your Mommy calling....
CLASS DISMISSED
Perhaps the safety awards may be of more value; I think the Rabbit and GTI should do very well, which is what I am more concerned about.
Also I would trust data from an independent source in preference to a manufacturer because most surveys or data can be represented in several ways - you have heard the saying "lies, damn lies and statistics". Always make sure you are comparing like for like - not merely JDF Power as their surveys have lots of facets.
Also why do you continue with this "class dismiss" stuff? Sounds like you don't like differing views. Discussion is good.
Regarding whether machines break or not, that's not the question - the point is that the other poster basically was asking us ("me" specifically) to disregard "Quality" as a reason to purchase a car. This is a ridiculous contention. Your point about "there will always be unreliable examples" is, of course, true, and just the opposite is true, too: a model with a documented history of poor reliablity will have samples which did not have any problems. That's why statistical valid surveys are important. As I've said, JD Power is ONE measure; there are others. Having said that, personally, I would dismiss a vechicle which had a reputation for many problems immediately after purchase, under the assumption that if things are that bad right out of the factory, they're unlikely to get much better.
You ask "why do you continue with this "class dismiss" [sic] stuff? Sounds like you don't like differing views. Discussion is good."
Indeed. "Discussion" IS good! A two-way exchange of reasoned and rational ideas IS good. The other poster has not exhibited any of those traits. In the face of that, the exchange between the two of us is one where the other poster has made ridculous statements. I've corrected them, and challenged him/her to prove that I was wrong. The other poster's only response was to attempt to change the subject. Given the above, the other posted is being treated exactly as he deserves.
Respect is earned. It is not a right.
This article talks more about how CR works:
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html
With the sample size it is fruitless to compare the GTI against a more popular car like a civic or matrix.
Yeah, I never said anything about the Hyundai dealer comment because I didn't post it. Talk to 600kgolfgt.
To reiterate on the JD Power. It's a quality survey for the first 90 days. If I buy the car for the long haul (say ten years) that's 2.5% of the car's operational lifetime. I don't think that's a good representation of how the car is going to perform overall. Think of people that build a new house. How many home owners experience problems in the first three months of ownership? That doesn't mean the house is going to fall apart. A car is a machine, and a complex machine at that. Some machines are better designed than others, some machines last longer than others. I'll tell you how I did with my VW in 10 years. However, if you think the first 90 days are so important I can tell you that right now:
133 days of ownership:
0 minor problems
0 major problems
best mileage on a tank of gas: 33 mpg (all hwy)
worst mileage on a tank of gas: 21 mpg (all city)
I dismissed it after the first sentence, because it's the crux of their entire argument, and it's flat-out WRONG! "Response rate" is NOT the key to validity: obtaining a statisticaly valid number of replies IS the key. They are two very different animals.
CU routinely declines to publish ratings for vehicles for which they do not have valid statistical samples.
I understand your comparisons of a house to a car, but I don't believe that's a great analogy; houses are mostly custom built. Just about every piece of wood is cut by hand. Every piece of dryway is put up by hand. And so on, and so on.
A car, on the other hand, is assembled using mass-produced parts; every part of particular type is identical to every other. If one fails early in the life of the car, it's very likely that the replacement will, too. The variable is that the people actually screwing the car together may have done a bad job at the factory, and the dealership could replace the part (or re-install the existing part) correctly.
I would be hesitant to buy a car with a great deal of problems early in the ownership experience because it might be an indicator that there's a problem with the parts (design or construction), OR that there's an assembly problem at the factory. Either way, if I come across a car with that problem, it sends up a red flag; to me, at least.
Specifically regarding the "90 day are so important" comment, I think I've said a number of times that that is one of several measurements which I believe should be considered.
I hope that you're able to report back in ten years with excellent news for your VW! There can't be too many great cars out there to chose from, and there's a lot of really good things that can be said about the new GTI!
On the other hand, my new 2006 GTI has performed flawlessly for it's first 5 months or so of life. Who knows if it will do as well as the Celica. I don't care since I did not buy it as a purely functional thing to get from point A to point B. I knew of VW's perceived reliability problems when I bought the GTI. My purchase was almost purely an emotional decision. I'd guess most GTI owners would be the same way. If I were in the market for an Accord or Camry or Civic LX or Impala or Malibu or Altima or Sentra or all the other emotionless cars, reliability would probably be much higher on my requirements list, along with the requirement of having a boring car. If reliability was one of my top priorities, I'd probably sheep out and buy an Accord or Camry like the rest of the lifeless population. I'm not saying it is smart or logical to have a disregard for reliability, it just wasn't a priority when buying this particular type of car. It certainly would be a nice bonus to have it continue to perform flawlessly for the duration though. Unless it leaves me stranded on a regular basis, I will continue to be happy with it. I plan on getting rid of it when the warranty expires though. Maybe trade it in on a Scirocco!
http://autoextremist.com/page6.shtml#table
You have read way too many news clippings. Now back to reality:
If that were the case, then that would mean more than 50% of Jettas have problems. Even the worst manufacturer doesn't have problems with 50% of their cars (more like 10-15%). So your argument flies in the face of logic. Especially due to the fact that I see lots of 1993-1998 Jettas still on the road.
The same can't be said for the older Hyundais, however...
All I know is that Hyundai's are better now than they've ever been. That's not to say that they're especially satisfying to drive, but it's always good to have good cars from which to choose.
Check out these articles on VW:
Mechanic’s Tale: VW Need More Healing
Mechanic’s Tale: VW, Heal Thyself
The Vehicle Dependability Gap between Luxury and Higher-Volume Brands Narrows Significantly
Guess what manufacturer is sixth from the bottom?
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006133
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bestselling_vehicle_nameplates
(The link is a bit outdated, the golf surpased the F150 earlier this year. It was the first link I found that shows the rest of the top ten)
I doubt if the car was the turd that consumer reports makes it out to be sales would be consistently so high (world wide). Also it shows...people love them!
Lumping multiple generations of a product is rather useless, I'm sure you'll agree. You can't go back and buy a new 1985 Golf (or whatever one from the past you would like).
Go check out all the posts at VWVortex. Those folks are very dedicated VW owners, and they've covered previous problems in great detail.
I'm hopeful that VW has put their more recent problems behind them, and are making cars as reliable as Toyota and Honda, with that added benefit of having a "soul", which most of the Toyotas and Hondas do not have.
Personally, I'll let others find out first, and report back to the rest of us.
Here:
VW Jetta TDI
Here too:
Volkswagen Jetta: Problems & Solutions
This was a fascinating one:
WOW NOBODY WANTS TO EXPLAIN MY 3 TRANSMISSIONS IN 2 MONTHS?
Here's a thread on the 2006+ Jetta. What are they discussing? Problems, mostly:
Volkswagen Jetta 2006+
Hmmm....I see a definite trend here.
:P
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/hyundai_misc.html
(Some really alarming stories including a car fire)
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef02146/0!make=Hyundai&model=Elantra&ed_m- akeindex=.ef02146
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.eea8990/679!make=Hyundai&model=Santa%20Fe- &ed_makeindex=.eea8990
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef0400b/0!make=Hyundai&model=Sonata&ed_ma- keindex=.ef0400b
www.hyundai-forums.com
(have to join, but the site is similar to vw vortex for Hyundai. No shortage of problem threads)
What's more serious, window solenoids going out on older model jettas, or transmission problems on 2000-05 Hyundais? Last month I was in Colorado for business and the rental company gave me a Tucson. Rode nice and did fine in the cities, but the car did terrible on the hills. The car couldn't hold speed (65 up a moderately steep grade) and didn't downshift until the engine was ready to puke. This was even with accelerating to the hill to carry some extra speed. The powertrain may be relaible and working perfectly to manufacturer specs, I found it to be working perfectly awful. I haven't had that problem in a VW or in the Chevy, Pontiac, and Nissan I've been rented in prior business trips to Colorado.
In addition I found some other good reads regarding the actual value of JD Power and Consumer Reports. I hope you check them out.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/03/truedelta-questions-quality-of-jd-power-metho- dology/
http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/think.php
Truedelta is a new independant car review/reliability group which currently gathering their own reliability stats. Number are supposed to be available later this year.
What did you think about those pieces about VW over at at TheCarConnection which I posted?
Regarding TrueDelta, of course, since they're competing with JP Power they have every reason to put a negative spin on JD Power's methods. That notwithstanding, I agree they have some valid points, which have been discussed many times over the years.
It's unwise to make any one measurement the criteria for purchasing a vehicle, but if you keep looking around, and turn up the same story practically everywhere, that's something to think seriously about.
As for the other VW issues mentioned oil sludging on the 1.8T engines can certainly occur without proper maintenance (regular oil changes) and turning off the car with a hot turbo. There is even a petition floating around online (http://new.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?VWSludge), but it has nowhere near the signatures for the toyota sludge petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html). Yet VW remains looked down on and Toyota remains god in the public eye. The timing belt is a trouble area that bites some VW owners and not others. Seems like the majority of Passat owners on vwvortex point acknowledge the problem, but still support the car. If the car was a total POS, I don't think the car would have that much public support.
You mentioned that in an earlier post that the quality of Hyundai has improved. Can't VW improve? Notice how the 1.8T engine has been replaced? Read some Europe based forums regarding the MKV Golf (which has been on sale in Europe since 2003). Seems like Europe has been pleased with reliability so far...and yet these changes are not reflected in JD Power and Consumer Reports (for reasons I've cited earlier). I don't buy that. I think with the MKV golfs/jettas and the B6 passat reliability has taken a big step forward for VW. But like I stated before, we won't know for a few years.
After talking to several mechanics (as well as recently having a timing belt changed on my 2003 Wolfsburg Jetta), timing belt failures are not due to the timing belt itself - its a due to a sludge-related cylinder head failure. Sludge prevents the cylinder head from being properly lubricated, which eventually leads to a seizing of the moving parts (cams, valvetrain, etc.). Of course after that, the timing belt is sheared because it is still moving but the cam sprocket that drives the belt has stopped cold.
So by the time the timing belt fails, the cylinder head will have already failed prior to that event.
Moral of the story - use the specified VW 502.00 (synthetic) oil at every 5000 mile interval, and chances are, the timing belt will become less of an issue.
BTW - I had my timing belt, water pump, tensioners, etc. changed at 75,000 miles. When I inspected the timing belt and the serpentine belt, they looked like they could go another 30,000 miles. If you have the factory water pump with the plastic impeller, don't go beyond 75,000 mile intervals without changing the timing belt, water pump, and accessories. When you have the water pump changed, make sure you purchase the aftermarket water pumps with the metal impeller. Once you do, you should easily go 100,000 miles between timing belt changes...
You cite the sludging issue, but ignore the many other (sadly) negative issues he cites.
Let's not forget the coil-pack debacle, too. That was a classic.
Yes, I'd mentioned that Hyundai has improved, and if you look through my posts, you'll see that I consistently hope that VW in in the process of improving, too. You'll also see that I've also said that as far as I personally am concerned, I'll wait to see what happens.
Toyota, which has become semi-legendary for quality, has had more than their share of issues lately. Perhaps it was a case of being over-confident and arrogant.
I'm hopeful that VW's quailty issues (which also affect their bottom line, due to warrantee costs), have shocked them into action.
We shall see.
Your VR6 has a timing chain, so the timing belt change issue doesn't apply. If you always use the VW 502.00 spec oils (such as Castrol Syntec 5W-40, Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula, Valvoline's 5W-40 Synthetic oil, etc.) every 5000 miles, it will greatly reduce the possibility of sludge-related failure and enhance engine longevity. These engines, when properly maintained will last at least 400,000 miles (I can speak from experience, having put 429,000 miles on the original engine from my 1987 Golf GT and currently have 185,000 miles on my 1997 Jetta - and it doesn't burn a drop of oil).
I would highly recommend changing the water pump at 75,000 miles (or even at 70,000 miles), because the factory water pump has a plastic impeller that will eventually disintegrate (make sure you or your mechanic replace the serpentine belt at this time as well - whether it needs to be replaced or not - to save on labor $$$$). I would also recommend replacing the factory water pump with the improved aftermarket water pump with the metal impeller, which will last much longer. Once you have the improved water pump, you can change the water pump and serpentine belt at every 100,000 mile intervals.
HTH... :shades:
If you take it to the dealer, chances are they will use the factory waterpump with the plastic impeller (they probably have thousands in stock, so they are going to exhaust that supply first before considering using the pumps with the metal impeller).
These OEM pumps have been improved (more durable impeller), but the impeller is still plastic, so these would have to be changed every 70,000 - 75,000 mile intervals (to be on the safe side).
What I do is go to one of my favorite sites (germanautoparts.com). They have the improved water pump with the metal impeller (as do most aftermarket shops/sites that deal with VWs). I order the part there, and have my private VW mechanic install it. That way I can extend the water pump change intervals to 100,000 miles.
If you can find a good VW mechanic who can do the work, I would go the aftermarket route. Otherwise, I would take it to the dealer every 75K.
I'm trying to figure out if a 2002 GTI 1.8T needs new struts around 50k... the tire guy said the struts were 'leaky' and I saw what looked like leakage. He offered me an 'upgrade' from the factory install to KYB for both front and rear. A four for the price of three deal if I agreed right then...
Did the car need new struts?
Are KYB struts good?
Am I a giant sucker?
This GTI Gal would appreciate any info you got. Thanks!
How much are they charging you for the shocks?