VW GTI (All styles)

bruticus · January 2003

Also no Progressive, and no companies offer online quoting whatsoever. In NJ, auto insurers MUST adopt "take all comers" meaning they can't turn any applicant away; they must offer some kind of policy for drivers with terrible records; because this driver group has a high overlap with the group of drivers with little money, these high-risk policies are subsidized by premiums paid by average drivers. As a result, many insurers (State Farm being one of the biggest in recent news) are quitting the business in NJ completely, which decreases competition and allows remaining insurers to jack up rates.

At the same time, a large % of vehicles on our roads on any given day are registered/insured in a different state, while a smaller % are not legally registered or insured at all. So auto insurers writing business in this state are faced with paying money on claims they can't hope to recover in premiums because, quite often, one party involved in an accident will be paying a company in a different state (or no company at all). That risk is, again, subsidized by average drivers' premiums.

Atop that, there's no real regulation of how insurance companies rate driver risk; one company may allow people with 1 accident or 2 points into their best-rate group, while another won't offer their best rates unless a driver has no points, no accidents, and has been insured with that carrier for 3 years or more.

IIRC, in NJ the average premium for all "driver categories" is highest or second-highest in the nation.

Cars like the Protege, Mini, and Focus suffer much the same insurance drawbacks as the WRX: rated as high-performance; intended/marketed to young, single male drivers; prone to theft; often used for weekend racing...

DjB

rickrover · January 2003

I'd get quotes for a 1.8t GTI from your same sources - that's the only way to really know what your rates would be. My 02 1.8t GTI insurance runs about $900 a year in Florida. GTI's are typically cheap to insure in my experience.

lngtonge18 · January 2003

Good Lord!!!! If I ever consider moving to NJ, please remind me about these ridiculously high insurance rates. I pay about 2400/yr to insure 3 cars in Florida full coverage (no collision or comp on oldest car) with Progressive. I'm 23, single, no points and no accidents. Cars insured are an 03 Suzuki Aerio SX, 02 Mitsu Lancer, and 92 Miata. NJ residents are being ripped off, especially the young single male group.

nkeen · February 2003

My recent problem with an ignition coil failure caused my car to be holed up in the dealership for days waiting for a new part. The coil was eventually replaced. I then read in today's NY Times Automotive Section that each of four ignition coils is prone to failure but that VW's policy was to only replace the one that failed. I immediately went back to my service documentation, and sure enough, only the coil on cylinder 1 was replaced. So it's only a matter of time...

I plan to take this up with VW next week. (I pressed for a buyback under PA's lemon law after the ignition failure, but no luck.)

Summary of first 17K miles: rattle in driver's door; 2nd gear syncro failure resulting in replacement; noise in 4th and 5th gears resulting in transmission replacement (4 transmission related visits/fixes in 16K miles); ignition coil failure resulting in ignition coil replacement on cylinder 1. VW has to realize that this just won't do in the North American market, where reliability is paramount. For comparison, I have owned 3 humble Chevy Cavaliers with only a water pump failure and a thermostat failure, each around 100K miles. All three cars parted company with me on their original transmissions and clutches.

dle01 · February 2003

I just saw the NYT article; here is a link to it for those who are interested.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/02/automobiles/02COIL.html

This is not super good news on the reliability front. The article mentioned that now that parts are available VW will be offering proactive replacements of all coils. I'm going to check with my dealer this week to see if they are willing to do this on my car (a 2002 VR6).

Has anyone had any experiences with dealers willing to replace more than one coil? Anyone received any proactive correspondence regarding the problem from VW?

revka · February 2003

Perhaps this official announcement from VW will help put some of your concerns to rest: Volkwagen and Audi To Replace All Ignition Coil Parts.... Also, for more on this subject, here a discussion from our Maintenance & Repair board. Hope this is helpful.

And perhaps we can get back to discussing some other subjects about the GTI. Thanks for your participation! ;-)

Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

nkeen · February 2003

Good to read about the fix.

I had started to test other cars as a prelude to replacing the GTI. But... Subaru WRX: fast but crude; Honda Accord: extremely competent but left me totally unmoved; Saab 9-3: comes real close, but try ordering a base car; BMW 325i: great to drive but too cramped and not as fast as the VW; Jaguar X-type 2.5 5spd: like the Mondeo that spawned it, a good car, but poor head room and it's not really a Jag, and, yes, a Chevy Impala: honest, roomy, under-rated car with a great engine and the best auto trans you can buy. But the GTI is just plain great to drive, and very roomy for two (more than any except for the Impala and Accord, thanks to old-fashioned near vertical side glass and more vertical windshield). If only it would give me 70K miles of trouble free motoring.....

philly2002 · February 2003

I'm beginning to really like the GTI VR6. I've been doing some research about the car and am very impressed with the facts and figures. How 'bout the new incentives and rebates from VW?

1. Where is the GTI built? Brazil or Germany? How 'bout in 2002?

2. Should I wait for the 2004 GTI 4 Motion?

3. Is the Cargo space roomy enough to hold a mountain bike with or without removing the front wheel?

4. What else should I know about this car before I go and buy a Honda Element EX 4WD or an Audi A4 Avant 3.0 6-speed.

matthop · February 2003

hi, Im a new VW owner, I just bought a '03 GTi with the 1.8t, I like it alot. Im comming out of a 1998 Caddillac Seville STS. I have about 450 miles on my GTi and i have a rattle comming from my passenger door. Other than that the car has been awesome, its quick and fairly good on gas. My insurance however did go up about $400 a year as oppose to my caddy....im a 22 yr old guy btw.
I have only had one ticket my whole life and no accidents, so im on the same boat as some of you other guys

adg44 · February 2003

It's built in Brazil. The last German built GTI was in early 2001.

The Element and A4 Avant are totally different cars. Apples to Oranges.

2004 GTI 4motion? No such thing. There will be a Golf R32 with a 3.2L VR6 and 4motion, but that's it. About 5,000 headed to the US and we aren't sure if it will come with the DSG or the 6 speed. Expect pricing to be right around the $30k mark.

- Anthony

revka · February 2003

and congrats on your new GTI!

You said: "My insurance however did go up about $400 a year...."

Just curious, have you had a chance to check out Edmunds' Insurance Section? With a little knowledge, you might be able to lower those rates, and still maintain an adequate amount of coverage. Good luck, and please keep us posted on your ownership experience. ;-)

Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

gsgman69 · February 2003

I put my road bike(wheel off) in my trunk quite easily. On a couple of occasions I have had to put two bikes in the back which was a little more awkward, but not too difficult. In addition the rear bumper is a great place to sit whilist putting on your shoes, helmet, etc. The GTI has 42 cu. ft. of space with the seats folded down which is about as much as a Focus or Civic SI hatch. I think the Element is a little overkill if you just need to carry a bike or two.

I think the GTI is so much cheaper than the Avant that it is hard to compare the two. I also think the GTI would be much more fun to drive than an Element and the aftermarket is there for you to transform the car if you decide to later. Plus I think all that body cladding on the Element will look pretty silly 5 or 6 years(the Chevy Avalanche look very silly right now to these eyes) from now where the GTI is a very timeless and rational design.

nedzel · February 2003

in 1999. I was looking at the 1.8T (previous version). The 3.0 Avant is a very expensive car, close to $40k by the time all is said and done. Too much for me. The 1.8T at the time was closer to $30k. I decided to save the money. The 1.8T Avant was a bit slow for my tastes. I sure could use the space, however.

fredvh · February 2003

Volkswagen/Audi in Massive Recall

More than 850,000 Volkswagen and Audi vehicles --
about 530,000 sedans and hatchbacks sold in the
U.S. alone -- are being recalled for a faulty
ignition coil. Volkswagen announced the recall last
week, noting that the problem could cause spark
plug failure and rough running, which is usually
indicated by the vehicle's "Check Engine" light.
Most of the cars affected carry the VW corporate
1.8-liter turbo four (which includes the Audi A4
and TT coupe; the VW Golf, GTI, Jetta, New Beetle
and Passat), the 2.8-liter VR6 and the 3.0-liter
V6 engines, as well as the VW Passat's W8.

wetwillie · February 2003

The announcement from VW is NOT a recall.
They will only replace coils on vehicles that have experienced a failure.
My '02 VR6 24V GTI, for example is NOT eligible for this program because it has not failed - yet.

I guess I'll have to drive it 'till it fails, or wait until they catch up with the problem units, at which point I hope the program morphs into a REAL recall - replacing ALL SUSPECTED coils.

revka · February 2003

To fredvh and Wetwillie- Perhaps you missed my previous post# 808 on this subject.

According to latest news: Volkwagen and Audi To Replace All Ignition Coil Parts....

We have also have a VW Ignition Coil Problem discussion on our Maintenance & Repair board that you may want to check out. Hope this is helpful.

Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

wetwillie · February 2003

Yes, I've read all the press releases but perhaps Frank Mcguire hasn't.
In my letter from VW there is no mention of a proactive course of action - only replacing coils that have failed to date.

A call to my dealer confirmed this. I was told emphatically that this was not a recall.
If VW has ANY business sense, they will, as the press release states, replace ALL coils.

regards,

Will

markjenn · February 2003

It's not an official NTSA mandatory safety recall, but VW is saying it wants to replace all coils whether they have failed or not. The issue is that they don't have enough to go around right now, so they are not encouraging people to replace non-failed coils yet. When supply is sufficient, then VW will proactively request that owners bring their cars in for coil replacement, failed or not.

I think this lack of supply is the key reason VW hasn't been more pro-active or annouced their intention to replace all these coils earlier. Overall, I think they're handling this Ok - not great, but Ok.

- Mark

adg44 · February 2003

That's why they said in a "couple" of months.

Bremi is working around the clock to make more of their coil packs to meet the demand. However, one of my "new" coil packs failed a week after it was installed - so these coil packs aren't a fix.

VW can replace all the coil packs with these "new" ones, but they are just replacing a poorly designed part with another poorly designed one.

revka · February 2003

Sorry to hear that. Let's hope that's not going to be the case for other replacements. Good luck.

Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

revka · February 2003

You'll now find direct links to Edmunds' 2003 VW GTI new vehicle information on the left side of this page. Also, keep your eyes open for other related articles, discussions, and tools to be added to that area.

Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

njcar1 · February 2003

Does Anyone know what the price for a 2002 model (GTI 1.8 manual, no options) is right now. They still have a few of those lying arround and I was wondering whether I can get one of those cheaper that the same car that's a 2003 model. Do you think they will sell it bellow invoice, by how much, or?
How close to invoice do you think they'll sell the 2003 model?
I would appreciate all feedback.

markjenn · February 2003

I've been doing some shopping and most dealers in my area do not have any 2002's or 2003's and are selling them off the truck for MSRP. This is in contrast to Jetta's where they have hundreds sitting around and are willing to make some very good deals. I was offered invoice on a Jetta GLI, but they wouldn't budge off MSRP on a GTI.

I don't know why there is this discrepency, but unless my situation is unusual, you probably won't be able to get near invoice on a car.

Personally, I'd get a 2003 with a late production number and put this coil pack thing in the rear view mirror. I've put down a deposit for a 20th AE GTI and will likely pay MSRP.

- Mark

rickrover · February 2003

I've hardly ever seen a no option GTI in my area, they all have luxury package and 17's - 02's haven't been around since third quarter of 02. GTI's fly off my dealer's lot, although they will give discounts off MSRP if you do a little haggling.

nomovw · February 2003

New to the listing. Just sold my 00 GTI VR6. I truly loved the car. Then again, I truly hated the car. It was the most fun, most "apparently" solid and well-appointed car I've owned. It always ran flawlessly. However, almost everything else not related to its ability to move was junk. The infamous power window problems persisted. The rear washer was replaced twice in a 12 month period. The rear hatch could not be opened by the key. It would occasionally open by the remote opener and sometimes by the hatch release lever. I think part of my problem is the lack of even semi-competant VW dealerships/mechanics in my area. I just plain couldn't afford to chuck out hundreds a month to keep the "little" things working on it, so the last time I put down $500 to fix a hole in the oil pan, I sold that baby. It was a sweet, sweet car, but much like having a wife and a mistress, who can afford both? Anyone else have such bittersweet experiences?

nedzel · February 2003

I haven't sold my '00 GTI GLX, but I too am tired of things going wrong. I've also had problems with an incompetent dealer. I've busted an oil pan too. Latest expense was to replace the starter motor -- they're apparently known to wear out prematurely.

nomovw · February 2003

You know, with all the bad weather and all, I really miss that car. It was solid in all weather. But then again, when the windows wouldn't go back up on a rainy day and the fragile key/remote that I replaced 3 times and the $17 for a headlight bulb (and $35 to put it in) just makes me glad I don't have all those expenses anymore. I got the car 6 mo after another guy bought it so the warranty dropped to virtually nil for me as the second owner. So at 24k miles when things started acting wacky, it was beyond the warranty period. I sure liked the looks, feel and drive of the car, but driving a conservative Honda (my 6th) just gives me peace of mind, and generally, a fatter wallet.

nedzel · February 2003

You can get the needed bulbs anywhere. But have you looked at what it takes to replace them? The low beams are a pain to replace. The high beams are worse. There's no room to get your hand in there. I replaced the lows myself, but paid my mechanic to replace the high beams. As he said, your choices are to 1) cut the heck out of your hand or 2) remove the bumper cap, then remove the entire headlight units, thus giving access to the rear of the headlight unit. Given what you have to go through to change the light bulbs, $35 isn't all that unreasonable for labor. What is unreasonable is the design...

8u6hfd · February 2003

This are my instructions for replacing them.

http://www.geocities.com/thisistan/headlight_bulb.html

nedzel · February 2003

How in the world were you able to reach in that far to grab the high beam bulb without tearing the heck out of your hands?

nomovw · February 2003

Nedzel, you said you had problems with the oil pan too. I live in the country where the roads are less than perfect (or paved in some cases). However, they are generally level and nonetheless a small dip or bump put a tear in my oil pan going about 10 mph. Now I've had a CRX and Miata that have lower clearance and they never gave me a problem with the oilpan or anything scraping on the road. Is that another design flaw? I can't image how in normal driving that should have occurred.

nkeen · February 2003

Interesting to read about the torn oil pans. Don't know if it relates, but the VW has very weak underbody protection at the front end -- flexible plastic panels that are easily torn off and damaged -- mine came off for the third time last week when I hit some hardened snow that a thoughtful individual had just heaved into the roadway.

My wife recently bought a Malibu, which I took on a long drive a couple of weeks ago. Whatever its perceived faults might be, that car imparts an impression of great strength compared to the VW, which seems delicate by comparison. U.S. driving conditions are very different from European -- in the U.S. severe weather, roads maintained infrequently and to much less strict tolerances, frequent stops and starts, all take a toll on a car that seems to be designed primarily for the European environment.

I was amused by VW's letter, indicating that I could recognize the coil failure by the illumination of a warning light and reduced performance. How about adding white smoke from under the hood, violent shaking, and what Rolls might term a reluctance to proceed, as other symptoms?

VW is in danger of throwing it all away (for the second time) in N. America.

gsgman69 · March 2003

I took my GTI to Big Bend Nat'l park in West Texas last November. A couple of times I used "unpaved roads" as shortcuts across this huge park. Anyway at least twice on these roads I heard huge "chunk" sounds of big rocks hitting up against the underside of my car whilst going about 20 mph.

Got home a while changing the oil noticed a 3-4mm deep gash in my oil pan which it turns out was not enough to pierce it. Still makes me want to avoid gravel roads in the first place or failing them take them at 15 mph or below.

"Whatever its perceived faults might be, that car imparts an impression of great strength compared to the VW, which seems delicate by comparison. U.S. driving conditions are very different from European -- in the U.S. severe weather, roads maintained infrequently and to much less strict tolerances, frequent stops and starts, all take a toll on a car that seems to be designed primarily for the European environment."

My impression has been just the oppoisite. Firstly GTIs/Golfs/Jettas/NBs(all derived from the same platform) should probably be compared to Proteges, Civics, Neons, etc. and not to a Malibu. The Malibu is bigger in length, wheelbase and weight compared to all of the above.

Actually I think the firm ride of the VW is superior to all of the above. I say this because the driver gets good feedback from the road whilst still being shielded from large impacts, which you can feel, but at the same time are muffled by the suspension. This is the European ideal that is being mimicked by many Japanese sedans of late.

Automobile magazine in Jan. 2002 said the GTI's ride: "is exceptional, with a regal float reminiscent of old Mercedes sedans."

Most GTI owners will agree, but add that this comes at some expense in regards to handling limits(Of course there are cheap fixes for this too).

I think the Golf/GTI is more substantial at 2900 lbs than anything in it class and the only thing that detracts from this is, in my experience, the occasional squeking from the rear windows.

I do agree with you, however, in that VW is jeopardizing its future with reliability that is less than acceptable these days where people demand that cars be as reliabe as microwaves.

8u6hfd · March 2003

I wear Mechanix gloves when working on the car.

nedzel · March 2003

even with gloves on, I've got no clue how you got your hands in far enough to grab the bulb. No way mine will fit.

8u6hfd · March 2003

I got smaller hands

nedzel · March 2003

I busted my oil pan at less than 10 mph on a short, relatively smooth dirt drive to the range at the local gun club. The problem is that the underdamped suspension gets a bounce going and then the lack of ground clearance kills you.

Firm ride? Definitely not in my 2000. It's very soft and under-damped. Needs slightly stiffer springs and stiffer shocks. It's my understanding the VW stiffened up the suspension recently (i.e., after 2000).

absolut9 · March 2003

I have a 2002 GTI that has been in the shop 4 times in the last 6 months. I just picked it up today (ignition coil failure). Both windows fell inside the tracts, the sunroof got stuck open and the ignition coils failed twice. I love this car, but, it is becoming a headache I just dont need.
***one question: For those of you who have had all of the coils replaced...Have any of you experienced additional problems, either coil related or other failures due to the coil problem? **** IhAtErEnTaLs....

revka · March 2003

Sorry to hear about your vehicle problems. You should also ask (copy/paste) your question in the VW Ignition Coil Problems discussion on our Maintenance & Repair board. Good luck, and please keep us posted on your situation.

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

geoffdgti · May 2003

nkeen wrote on Feb 28, 2003:
Interesting to read about the torn oil pans. Don't know if it relates, but the VW has very weak underbody protection at the front end -- flexible plastic panels that are easily torn off and damaged --

I had the same thing happen in early April ('01 GTI 1.8T with 48K miles). The plastic splash guard cracked into two pieces from hitting the refrozen snowbank at the end of my driveway. It made a very unhappy scraping noise for 30 yards until I pulled over and removed it. My dealer replaced it for $45.00 a few days later when I had it in for a routine oil change.

My VW has been completely trouble-free. The dealer replaced an oil line to the turbo and a temperature sensor under warranty at 20,000 miles. I hadn't noticed a problem with either failure. The dealer does 100% of the service on the car and their rates are reasonable. I bought the VW 100K mile premium extended warranty and it's starting to look like I won't make my money back on the extended warranty for the first time in my life.

I'm not happy about the window regulator and coil pack service letters that say VW will fix them gratis if they break. I'd prefer that they just fix the durn'd things. Other'n that, I'm totally happy. I paid sub-$20K for the car including the warranty and it's a superb commuter car that actually has a little bit of soul to it. Shod with Nokian Hakka Q snow tires in the winter, it's a better snow & ice performer than my SUV.

cuadan · May 2003

Hey guys Im looking into a GTI 1.8T.
How much cargo can fit in here? I need to be able to fit a 4 piece drumset plus some hardware in there. You guys or girls think it will work? Anyone have experience?

stammt · May 2003

You can fit a lot of stuff in a gti with the rear seats folded down. It gives you a nice square area without the sloping back window that some hatches have. If it's a regular 4-piece rock set, say a bass, snare, and two small toms, I doubt you'd have a problem. However the space isn't all that big if you also need to fit people in the back seats. If that's your main criteria you could always bring your set to the dealer and make sure it fits!

Motortrend did a thing last year comparing the matrix, wrx wagon, and protege5 and their test for space was a set of band equipment - 3 drums, cymbals, guitars and a keyboard. It didn't include the GTI but you can compare volume specs from it:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/wagon/112_0205_wag/index.html

rickrover · May 2003

It's amazing what you can fit in the back of a GTI. For maximum cargo volume and a totally flat load floor you can easily remove the rear seat bottoms which allows the rear seat back to lay flat. The seat bottoms flip forward but I'm tall and need the front legroom so I just unclip and remove the rear seat bottoms, takes all of a minute - (you have to remove the rear headrests too). My rear seat is out more than it's been in since I've had my GTI. My friends call it my mini minivan.

cuadan · May 2003

thanks guy this seems helpful.

gazelle2 · May 2003

I've read enough about VW problems on this site to have cause for, at least, concern about the aging process of our 2001 GTI VR6. The car has been fine so far, with 43K happy miles on it. The other day a plastic fastener on the glove box broke, but the engine/transmission have been fine. Is this a car that will begin to nickel and dime us to death? We just traded our 99 A6 Avant for an Infiniti FX35 due to lots of bad press about Audi (and a $1500 repair which was pending). I'd like to think that the Golf-based GTI, so common in Europe, would be a reliable older car. Anyone with 60k or more on their GTI who might provide insight? Thanks

nedzel · May 2003

My 2000 GTI GLX has about 50,000 miles on it. So far, I've replaced the rear shock top mounts and rear struts twice (and the shock top mounts will need to be replaced again soon). I've also replaced the rear brakes, starter, coil pack, spark plugs, plug wires, and center console lid locking device. I think the throttle body shift rod needs to be replaced as well. The front struts are getting soft so I may replace those as well. It sounds as though you've had better luck than I have.

I kept my previous car, an '87 Acura Integra, for 13 years and sold it at 135,000 miles. I have a hard time believing that I'll keep the GTI that long. YMMV.

rickrover · May 2003

I've seen a couple 2.0 Golfs with over 100k miles and the owners weren't about to trade them in.

The highest mileage GTI I know of is about 80,000 on a 2000 1.8t that has been reliable - Brakes, shocks, struts, plug wires, plugs are all maintenance items and don't reflect poorly on a car's reliability IMO - that stuff will wear out on any car.

two sets of shocks in 50k miles tells me you like to load up your GTI.

I plan to keep my GTI past the 100k mark.

nedzel · June 2003

Rear brakes shouldn't wear out before the fronts, and shouldn't go at 30k miles. The rear struts should not have to be replaced twice in 30,000 miles. The shock top mounts should never have to be replaced, let alone replaced twice in 30,000 miles. The plug wires and coil pack shouldn't have to be replaced at 30,000 miles. The starter motor shouldn't fail by 40,000 miles.

adg44 · June 2003

On VWs, the rear brakes wear before the fronts. It is a different brake compound that is used to stop squeeling. I got about 25k out of my rear brakes.

How the struts are being replaced so often, I don't know. A strut is a strut - something is causing it to blow. Your strut bushing was replaced twice, you must have VERY bad roads or you are very hard on your car.

Coil packs and starter motors....yeah, that sucks.

nedzel · June 2003

I'm 42 and married. I'm not hard on the car -- I don't beat on it. Been there done that when I was 18. I don't drive on dirt roads or take the car to the track. The roads in Boston aren't particularly good, but they are not that bad.

Apparently there was a problem with the design of the shock top mounts in 2000, as there are several different part numbers for the shock top mount, dependent upon which VIN you have. At about 10,000 miles, I got a rattle from the rear every time I went over a bump. It got progessively worse. After 7 visits to the dealer and a lemon-law notice to VW, VW finally fixed it by replacing the rear struts and shock top-mounts. That worked for 10,000 miles, when it happened again (out of warranty this time). If fixed it at my expense. Now, about 10,000 miles later it is starting again.

Regarding the rear brakes, it isn't just the brake pads that go -- I had to replace the discs as well. My mechanic said the rear brakes discs are undersized and he does not replace them with the OEM brakes. Instead, he installed a Brembo disk.

The throttle body shift rod is apparently another well known weakness on the 2000 and 2001 12v VR6. I think mine needs to be replaced, but I haven't done it yet. It seems to be relatively easy to do, so I may try it myself.

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