Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Anyways, fill up the tank, reset the trip odo, then when it's time to fill up, see how many gallons you filled up and divide the mileage by the gallons.
- Anthony
4/30/99 (two weeks after purchase!): air bag warning light came on; spiral spring assembly had to be replaced.
10/26/99: valet key will not turn ignition; center rear-seatbelt jammed.
12/21/99: cruise control shuts off when operating turn signal to change lanes; replaced.
1/28/00: seatbelt jammed again.
5/4/00: seatbelt jammed again.
10/25/00: seatbelt jammed again; replaced (finally). left rear door lock not working. left front door panel comes loose when door opened.
2/20/01: driver's side rear door lock not operating.
3/9/01: driver's side rear door lock not operating; new lock and window regulator installed.
3/26/01: rear door lock still not operating; door lock replaced again. faulty ground at lock harness found.
4/17/01: door lock *still* intermittently inoperable. window also inoperable. window regulator replaced again. bad wire in B pillar repaired. "Check Engine" malfunction light on; main engine control unit replaced. original warranty expired.
5/4/01: door lock **still** intermittently inoperable. Loose ground wire found in B pillar. Finally fixed!
6/21/01: bad water leak on driver's side floor, carpet soaked and musty. right rear window occasionally inoperable. right front passenger door handle/window control housing pops out of door frame when door is opened.
7/12/01: driver's side floor still getting wet and musty. resealed box under driver's windshield cowling, cleaned corroded wires. right rear window motor replaced per 6/21/01 problem. front door trim panel removed and new lock installed per 6/21/01 problem.
7/17/01 and currently: "Check Engine" light on.
I have been in contact with VW of America. They were supposed to call me back today as they agreed the problems have been "excessive". But I have not heard from them yet. Supposedly the man I spoke with wanted to check with a factory rep concerning "compensation", whatever that may be. "Compensation" won't solve the root of the problem which is that the car is a piece of junk and continues to require frequent service. Now it is once a week. The longest period I have gone without service required is about 5 months. And still only 18,950 miles driven in 2.25 years.
In the past week I can take a little solice in the fact that two colleagues who were seriously considering VWs have decided to purchase other vehicles upon hearing of my problems. Obviously, any car maker can have a lemon. But VW reliability is a true sore spot per Consumer Reports. I had hoped with the New Golf it had improved but apparently not.
I can not recommend a VW Golf to anyone. It is a shame because the car is actually fun to drive and looks great. Suffice it to say I will never purchase another VW product in my lifetime.
What I do have is more fun driving than any other car I have ever owned. It is an auto and still averages 42 MPG in mixed city/hwy driving with the majority hwy.
I would recommend the Golf to anyone. I may never drive anything other than a VW again.
far it has been nothing but joy and happiness..."
Four months? Please revisit that statement after at least another 23 months. Then we can talk apples and apples. My Golf was nothing but "joy and happiness" (minus the air bag spiral assembly replacement) after four months too. No one can tell any car's reliability or durability after four months. Even Chrysler products, arguably the least reliable or durable products on the American road in the long run, are wonderful after just four months. The fact is that I expected a good product from VW. I expected the 1999 New Golf to be at least as good as my 1984 Honda was for quality, reliability and durability, and not just for its "fun driving", its great "bells and whistles", good looks (mine still gets complements all the time), and great crash test results. I intended to have it for just as long. So far it and VW have failed miserably. VW has lost a customer for life due to shoddy workmanship, design, integrity and quality and unfortunately as a result I will certainly never purchase another VW product again. And I will continue to do all I can to not recommend VWs to anyone considering one as well. So far two colleagues, after initial serious consideration, have rejected VWs specifically based upon my experiences. Consumers Report has also questioned the reliability of the Beetle which is essentially a Golf with a Beetle body.
The reliability of the Golf badge, overall, has been about average compared to all other cars in it's class. Jetta has been a bit below average, Passat has been a bit above. That's hardly a reason to indict VW overall.
Sorry I can't cheer for VW as some seemingly would wish. And I'd like to. This is a VW Golf posting board and I have posted my experiences for others to hear. Bad warts and all. YMMV. When I was considering the Golf I checked out as many comments as I could find, here and at other places such as the VW Vortex web site. And I specficially searched for negative comments, experiences and recommendations because everyone usually glows about their new car regardless of make or model. I wanted the whole picture for consideration. The bad news is as important (maybe more so) than the good.
The sad thing is that the Golf really is much more fun and exciting to drive than Hondas. Even with the "check engine" light glowing on in front of me all the time now. ;-) Who knows, maybe VW of America HQ will come through for me in the end but I have yet to see any evidence to date. I am supposed to hear from them soon.
However, you have not gotten the response from VWoA yet. So, I see things like "I can not recommend a VW Golf to anyone. . . .Suffice it to say I will never purchase another VW product in my lifetime." and they seem to be more spiteful than reasonable. A Golf has been a problem. VW, as a whole, hasn't (yet.)
This statement is not essentially a vendetta: "In the past week I can take a little solice in the fact that two colleagues who were seriously considering VWs have decided to purchase other vehicles upon hearing of my problems. Obviously, any car maker can have a lemon. But VW reliability is a true sore spot per Consumer Reports. I had hoped with the New Golf it had improved but apparently not."
BTW, "VW reliability" has not been a "true sore spot" in CR since the introduction of the new models in 1999. As stated above, Golf has been average, Jetta spotty, and Passat good.
Sorry I can't cheer for VW as some seemingly would wish. And I'd like to. This is a VW Golf posting board and I have posted my experiences for others to hear. Bad warts and all. YMMV. When I was considering the Golf I checked out as many comments as I could find, here and at other places such as the VW Vortex web site. And I specficially searched for negative comments, experiences and recommendations because everyone usually glows about their new car regardless of make or model. I wanted the whole picture for consideration. The bad news is as important (maybe more so) than the good.
The sad thing is that the Golf really is much more fun and exciting to drive than Hondas. Even with the "check engine" light glowing on in front of me all the time now. ;-) Who knows, maybe VW of America HQ will come through for me in the end but I have yet to see any evidence to date. I am supposed to hear from them soon.
Anyway... Weatherdan, I totally feel where you're coming from. My check engine light likes to make itself known from time to time. And, as I'm thankful that I haven't experienced all the problems you have, I've still gotten very frustrated with my car. Not to the point where I'd swear off VW entirely though. My last experience with VW of America ticked me off to no end, and they've received a wonderfully nasty letter from me regarding their lack of concern for their customers, and the horrible service department at Stohlman VW in Tyson's Corner, VA. I've not received any type of response from VW, and don't expect to. During my last problem with the check engine light, it turned out to be a problem with my temperature sensor. I won't duplicate my words from previous postings, but will suffice to say that if you're WAITING to hear from VW, you'll have to keep on waiting. You'll doubtfully receive a call from them. They kept me waiting for three weeks before I finally gave in and called THEM back.
Yes, it does sound like you got a bad Golf. If it were me, I doubt I would have been as patient and understanding as you... I'd consider another VW (this one is my second) even still though. Hopefully VW of America is able to satisfy you. Good luck. In dealing with those people, you're going to need it.
I have read other concerns about Stolman VW in Tysons. I am also in Virginia.
Yeah, they really really suck. Fairfax VW seems to be a bit better, but I took my GTI in there the other day and they gave me some BS answers. It's really hard to have a modified car worked on because they say your exhaust causes your seat to move or some crap like that. Grrr, anyways...
Let's hope VW can come through for you!
- Anthony
Good luck, and remember to keep us updated!
weatherdan
P.S... did they actually call you, or did you have to contact them for an update? Just curious!
Option the Echo as close as possible to Golf and the MSRP for the Echo is $14,875. Compared to MSRP for a Golf GL of $16,000 (estimated cost for 2002 GL 4 door) I will choose the Golf every time.
The Echo I drove simply gave me the impression of an economy car and the Golf gave me the impression of a compact luxury car.
The Toyota is more likely to have greater reliability, but I choose the fun and safety and comfort of VW.
Yes, they did call me and left a message on my answering machine at my office.
Meanwhile re: check engine light, I have started noticing a distinct sulfur/rotten egg smell coming in through the dash vents once the engine heats up so I suspect there may be a problem with either the emission controls and/or the catalytic converter.
I know how you must feel now. I was in the same situation. My wife's 2000 Golf GLS was also a lemon. We bought it new in June 2000 and it was officially purchased back by VW of America in January 2001. It had less than 4000 miles on it. Let me share some of the things that I learned throughout the whole ordeal first then I'll say a little more about our case.
Since you've already contacted a lawyer, I suppose you're probably familiar with the Lemon Laws in Virginia. (We live in California and I guess VW lemons are everywhere.) If you need more info, www.carlaws.com has quite of bit of useful stuff. My feel is that VW of A is trying to get away with selling you a lemon. Don't give them the opportunity to mess with you again! Let them pay for the inconvenience and emotional trauma that you endured. We contacted the Autoline of the Better Business Bureau and initiated the mediation process (www.dr.bbb.org/autoline.cfm or 800-955-5100). I highly recommend looking into this, as it is the most effective tool you have to fight against VW and it's free! You'll have to prepare some paperwork (records of repairs and other complaints, etc.) but it sure beats filing a lawsuit. Oh, we didn't even get to the point where we needed to contact a lawyer. What the BBB Autoline does is act as the mediator between the consumer and the manufacturer to help resolve the problems. If that turns out to be unsuccessful, you can then go to arbitration. I firmly believe that you will have a winning case and get your car officially "lemoned" without resorting to further legal actions beyond arbitration. In our case, the more we looked into the lemon laws, the more we realized that we had a good case against VW. Your case sounds even better than ours! Doing the research ourselves also gave us a sense of power (not that it'll solve your problems, but at least you'll gain some confidence). At the end, VW settled with us before we continued to arbitration and agreed to refund every penny of our money and re-purchase the car "out of goodwill," according to their offer letter. So technically, our car was not lemoned. Instead, VW did not admit any wrongdoing and can turn around and sell the car if they wanted to. But at least we were out of the misery. (I feel bad for whoever ends up buying the car we had, though.) Please do yourself a favor and look into the lemon laws if you haven't done so. That said, there are limitations and restrictions under the laws, so pay close attention to whether you meet all the requirements. If you do, then you should be in excellent shape to stage a comeback. Some lemon laws automatically consider a car a lemon if it's been in the dealer for warranty repairs more than a total of 30 days in the first 18 months of ownership. Don't let them offer you a one-year extension of the warranty (they tried to offer us the same thing), or pay you $1500 towards the purchase of a new VW. They should be responsible for your losses and you shouldn't pay or take a hit financially for their mistake.
In case you're interested, here's a condensed version of our VW Golf horrors that began 2 weeks after we bought it:
Screeching sound from brakes when the brakes are NOT applied
Brake lights stay on when the pedal is not depressed
Cruise control inoperable
Same brake light problem again after brake light switch was replaced the first time
Immobilizer kicked in erroneously and car wouldn't start. (This turned out to be the dealer's fault when they replaced the engine control module to fix the cruise control.)
Squeaking noises from the dash (numerous repair attempts)
Cruise control failed again
Brake light switch problem again (this time the lights won't come on so the automatic transmission cannot be shifted out of Park).
Power mirror switch broke
For these repeating problems, we visited the dealer probably 10 times or more in the first 5 months. To add to the bad experience, the local dealer was absolutely horrible (ignorant and apathetic). We were just so glad and relieved that we got our money back. Now my wife drives a 2001 Honda Civic EX and we're both very happy with it. I have to admit that my wife and I both loved the Golf (when it was functioning properly). It was more fun to drive and had some neat features, but I'll not consider buying another VW product (Audi included). It's just not worth the risk and the trouble. I understand that every manufacturer will inevitably have a few lemons every now and then, but buying a VW (especially one that's not made in Germany) increases that chance by several orders of magnitude. Our Golf was assembled in Brazil (VIN number starts with a 9) and I really believe that the workmanship and quality control there are not as good as the German plants. Even though people say that all VW's plants are held to the same "stringent" quality standards, it is hard to doubt that Germany is a far better place to produce complex machinery than Brazil. You don't see Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus building their cars in developing countries. If all the plants had the same quality, then J.D. Powers and Associates wouldn't need to bother giving out quality awards to individual plants. Incidentally, all the award-winning plants are in Japan, Germany, or the U.S., NOT Brazil.
Anyway, enough said. Weatherdan, I hope you will stand up and fight for yourself and wish you the best luck!
I currently have a Golf TDI (from Brazil) that is 100% problem free and I also owned an Accord a few years ago that was 100% problem free.
If you have a VW that is a lemon then either get VW to replace it or repurchase it. Don't think that you are guaranteed to be lemon free by buying a Toyota or Honda.
Some steps to avoid having a lemon.
1. Buy from a dealer with a good service reputation. A dealer with bad service will create a lemon by being unable to correctly diagnose and repair a problem. If there is no good VW dealer in your area, don't get a VW.
2. Do not buy a vehicle the first year of a new model.
3. Do not let the service deptmartment have 10 attempts to fix the same problem. If they can't fix a problem on the second attempt then hold their feet to the fire and get VWoA involved.
4. Be educated. My Nissan truck has a problem with carrier bearing that is extremely common, I discovered this problem by communicating with other owners on the internet. If you have a problem that is widespread then the manufacturer should have to fix it even if the car is out of warranty.
Don't let one lemon sour your opinion on a manufacturer.
I went to a gatering a few weeks ago where there were 20 plus VW owners, the majority of the owners were extremely happy, one of the owners had very frightening stories about dealership service experiences.
I'm glad that you found the information useful. At least my experience with a bad VW Golf helped another fellow consumer who fell victim to a lemon. We were lucky that we smelled something fishy and acted early enough to prevent further damage. I think you still have a great chance of winning the war.
Even though you might not meet all the requirements under Virginia's lemon laws, I still think you have an excellent chance if you go through BBB's Autoline. They will assign you an agent and a case number and you can provide them all the relevant information. I have a feeling that VW won't settle with you very easily during the first stage of mediation (they offered to extend our warranty and 1 month's loan payment as compensation). Eventually they offered to examine our car and attempt one last repair and if it failed, buy the car back. But just insist on having the car lemoned. It doesn't hurt to try! Take it to the next level and go to arbitration if you need to. It is still free and you should be able to manage it without a lawyer. Arbitration gives both sides (you and VW of A) the opportunity to present their case in front an independently selected "arbitrator" (sort of like a judge in a regular courtroom). The arbitrator is selected by BBB from a pool of ordinary citizens who do not have any ties to the automotive industry. This may or may not be an advantage to the consumer depending on how knowledgeable he or she is. But the arbitrator is usually fair and might approach the case from the consumer's stand point. It is important to go through the information package that the BBB Autoline will mail you and follow the steps. If I'm not mistaken, you do have the option to skip mediation and go straight to arbitration. It'll be up to you to decide whether it's worth the time and effort to try and communicate with VW through the Autoline and come to a resolution. I recommend giving it a try. VW might decide that it's not worth their effort to go to arbitration and settle with you. Of course, patience is required as the process often takes a few weeks (for the consumer to file a complaint and for the manufacturer to respond). If you decide to go directly to arbitration or if the mediation falls through, the important thing is to present your case based on all the facts and details as best as you can. You have the option of hiring a lawyer to accompany you to arbitration, but that might cost some money. Remember that you have a very strong case and you should take a firm stance from the beginning (mediation) that you will do whatever it takes to have this matter resolved to your satisfaction or you are prepared to take it to the next level. Try not to get angry with VW simply because they won't care and it won't do your case any good. The decision of the arbitrator is legally binding to the manufacturer but not the consumer. This means that if the arbitrator rules in your favor, VW has to comply with the decision. But if you lose the case, you won't lose anything and you can still pursue further legal actions. So you basically have nothing to lose by going with BBB Autoline. Don't take VW's crap and suffer more by accepting their $1500 and shelling out more money to buy another potential lemon from them. Fight for yourself! I have confidence in your case. Good luck!
- Anthony
Don't give up! I still recommend that you give BBB Autoline a call. Tell them what happened and see whether they will be able to help you. Despite the fact that you've already had the car for more than 2 years and 24,000 miles, the problems began and repeated well before now. Curiously, VW's new car warranty is only 2/24000, while most other manufacturers offer at least 3/36000. Even though VW has a 10-year powertrain warranty, it's the little things that can drive you crazy and sometimes affect the safety of a car. If BBB Autoline cannot offer any useful help, you still have other warranty laws to protect you. I think www.carlaws.com mentions something about that. Take a look, maybe you'll find some helpful info. Again, good luck to you!
In response to moparbad (great advice, by the way) and adg44, I know that Honda and Toyota (and other makes known for their reliability) also produce bad cars occasionally. Of course there is no guarantee that you'll always get a problem-free vehicle. But your chances will probably be better if you go with the more reputable brands. I didn't have anything against VW (and I still wonder how much we would have loved our Golf had it been more reliable), it's just that we were unfortunate to have encountered a lemon. Just like adg44, if I had bought a Honda (or even a Lexus, for that matter) and the car turned out to be a lemon, I'd tend to shy away from the brand in the future. It seems reasonable and natural after you experience the pain and hassle of dealing with a lemon. I hope people won't think that I'm deliberately putting VW down. I really hope that VW will get their act together and produce high-quality cars more consistently. Maybe I'll be persuaded to try another VW some time in the future.
In addition, Volkswagen will offer a fully transferable limited powertrain warranty that covers five years or 60,000 miles (previously 10 years/100,000 miles, but transferable only from the original retail owner to a family member).
50,000 mile warranty is now better than Honda, GM, Nissan and Ford, etc..
The new warranty will help with fear of out of warranty costs, still it won't help with aggravation if you have a lemon or dealer problems.
I am going in tomorrow for a clunk out of 1st and I'm positive that my third gear synchro is going bad.
- Anthony
In the comparison of Golf to Echo I personnally find no comparison to be made. I feel that the Echo is very basic transportation and a better comparison is the Corolla or Civic. The Prius offers excellent MPG, and the Civic HX offers excellent MPG with more refinement than the Echo.
The choice of buying a VW is most often made on the driving experience, safety and comfort.
Initial cost and total ownership cost will be higher for VW than equivalent Toyota or Honda.
have leased this car it has been in the shop for electrical repairs. At
first the wiring for the speakers went wrong then a month later the
check engine light came and the dealer said that the emission fuses went
out. Anyway, that happened twice.
The fourth time I had problems with it was the the driver's window which
it didn't want to come up anymore and to mention that I have gotten all
wet from the rain. A month later the same thing happened with the
passenger's window. All these problems happened within 10 months from
the purchase.
I would like to mention that their customer service was also horrible.
Also, it feels like I owe a Chevy Cavalier rather than Volkwagen turbocharged engine.
Very disappointed with VW quality.
Sincerely,
Calin Popa
Unfortunately, it sounds like you got a lemon too! But the good news is that you're not alone and you do have some very useful tools to help you with dealing with the car and the manufacturer. Contact the Better Business Bureau's Autoline and get familiar with the lemon laws in your state. Please see my previous postings on this topic if you need more info. Good luck and keep us updated!
Quite a few problems that people have seem to be symptoms of poor dealer service. This can be cured by finding a different dealer or knowledgable independent mechanic.
Sure there are lemons out there, this is true for almost any make.
For 2002 there is going to be a 4 door GL model and now the warranty is 4 years bumper to bumper instead of two. Unfortunately the 1.8T Golf is no longer available.
Only a few of the recent issues discussed here seem to relate to dealer problems at all. Most concern problems with the cars themselves that require excessive trips to the dealer for repairs. It is one thing to have a dealer have to repair the same thing several times before they get it right and another altogether to have to take a (new) car to the dealer over and over again for different items. The former is a bad dealer, the later a bad car. Big difference.
As for CU's recommendation, it gives recommendations when a car performs well in its tests and when their reader survey data indicate that reliability should be at least average. The Golf gets a "black" check, indicating average overall reliability. It is clear from the reliability charts that Golfs have a history of electrical and hardware problems. Actually all the VWs listed have the same problems to some extent.