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Mazda 323

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Comments

  • mitchicoimitchicoi Member Posts: 4
    My temperature is somewhat unstable....it sometimes go up half and a bit more then after a while goes down again....ive already changed my aux fan,made it bigger,my temp sensor,thermostat gone already,nothings wrong with radiator either....ive also noticed that this happens when the weather is hot.is this normal or should i look into more serious problems???does it have any connection with my compressor?please help me figure out this puzzle :cry:
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Are you saying the temp gauge is fluctuating up and down? Does this describe the behavior?... the gauge will look like it's reading normal operating temp and then suddenly drop down, then come back up to looking normal, and it never goes up above the normal operating temp?

    I had something similar happen on a vehicle about 6 months ago. Nothing was wrong with thermostats, radiator, etc. So it HAD to be a problem with the gauge itself or the connections leading to the gauge. Turned out there was a cracked electrical connector on the back of the gauge that would make or break the connection depending how the car was moving. When the car was cold, it would seem to operate just fine with the needle slowly moving up as the car warmed up. Once the engine reached operating temp, the bouncing needle would start to show up. The needle would never indicate a higher than normal operating temp, so I was pretty sure it wasn't a cooling system problem. My guess is that the wires leading to the gauge would become a bit more flexible once the engine compartment heated up and the movement of the car (especially when accelerating or decelerating) would basically wiggle the wires and make or break the connection, causing the needle to suddenly drop and then just as suddenly come back up to show a correct reading.
  • kujhackujhac Member Posts: 14
    Obviously, there's no current getting to the bulb. Time to bring out the multi-meter.
  • 91323vic91323vic Member Posts: 18
    o kay my suggestion is to dismantle the intended guage at the dash, as a static dianosis. run the vehicle until flutuation in the guage appears obviously it wont be items mentioned that you pointed out. so it would be three of the following 1connectors on your harness 2 possibly wiring harness 3 the guages contact itself on the dash card . my remedy acquire a guage from wreckers do a meter test on it if you wish the best way is to run a test try a battery hotwire with a five amp breaker on the guage secondly run a light meter on active guage harness if the light flutuates in the same mannnerit`s along your harness wriggle them . if your also refering to the motor smells hot with the guage sensation this could very well be your cut in switch which operates in four cyclinders under a temperature rating the temperate makes it to its kickin point an operates the thermal fans to adjust the motor working temperature i have a very quick solution permently hotwire a ten amp breaker wire from your thermal fans to ignition main this operates fan as soon as key is turned
  • glowplugzglowplugz Member Posts: 5
    Both door locks on my trusty hatchback are failing. The driver's side one works but not well, and the passenger side lock is frozen. Apparently what happens is that the little internal sliding "cover" inside the lock comes loose & falls down into the mechanism, jamming the lock.

    I wonder if it's possible to disassemble the lock mechanism and remove the cover piece. Has anyone done this? I don't think I want junkyard locks - even if they happened to have the keys, I don't think used locks would last very long. I'm willing to buy new ones but can't find a "keyed alike" pair anywhere (I don't want a different key for each door).
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    There are new door locks possibly still available at O'Reilly auto parts. While you are replacing them, spray the entire latch, linkage assembly with lubricant spray to keep it all working well. They come in pairs. I recall them being under the HELP line. If you get dumb looks from the counter help, you may have to ask to see the catalog if they have one. A lot of parts houses say stuff is not available, but it is as a special order. Another source may be a phone call to Rockauto.com.

    We are going to have to install a new third set soon into ours at 300K. They are getting sloppy. Also an 89 323.

    Generally these lock assemblies are not rebuildable.
  • glowplugzglowplugz Member Posts: 5
    Thanks! ...I'll check into those sources :)
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    Could sure use some help from someone more knowledgeable than I: Car in question is a 1989 Mercury Tracer, but these have a Mazda 323 engine. It overheated, and I'm pretty sure the head gasket blew. (Milkshake oil, water drip from exhaust, etc.) I decided to try liquid glass on the head gasket - specifically, "Bar's Leaks Head Gasket Repair" - but I'm still having problems.

    I should mention the steps I've taken so far (some of which were just for maintenance):
    - Replaced the thermostat.
    - Back-flushed the cooling system.
    - Flushed the heater core separately.
    - Replaced the radiator cap.
    - (And as I said, added liquid glass.)

    What's different now:
    The good:
    - It starts and runs better.
    - There's no more sign of coolant in the oil, nor oil in the coolant.
    The bad:
    - Smoke is still sputtering out of the front of the engine in some spots, which I take to be unsealed cracks at the head gasket.
    - The heater isn't producing hot air.
    - The coolant overflow reservoir still bubbles (presumably from exhaust gas.)

    I'm wondering now if the water pump is bad, and that maybe the liquid glass can't fully circulate to where it can seal the cracks. The radiator hoses stiffen up when the engine is running, which I would have thought meant that there's pressure and that the coolant is being pumped through the system. Except that the top radiator hose gets warm/hot while the bottom hose never really does… I'd rather not replace anything else without knowing that I've nailed down the cause though. Any suggestions?

    Thanks much in advance.
  • kujhackujhac Member Posts: 14
    You're simply going to have to get the head gasket replaced and the head checked for warping. Hopefully the head isn't cracked but most likely it is.
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    Hmmm, you have listed some still not good symptoms. Yes, bubbles in coolant is an indication of exhaust leak into coolant. This is just the beginning of headaches.

    So education time first.

    As an engine ages, the round cylinder wears into an egg shape. One side from the power stroke, the other from compression stroke. When you over heat the block, that shape also distorts. I suspect over time, you will find oil usage/leakage to be up especially over time. Now add the uncertain possibility of something else cracking down the road, which does happen in such cases. You have an engine with an uncertain potential of total failure down the road.

    When it comes to rebuilding such an engine, the head is usually scrapped because there is only the dye method of finding cracks which is so limited in confirming results. The block can be magnafluxed to look for such small cracks, but at 20 years of age, it would be scrapped also, because of cost of labor. That brings down to a total engine replacement.

    So, in order to really determine what you have would be a total hit and miss mission with the prospects of total failure down the road.

    Now to add to the problems besides parts availability. The engine design itself is such that, ignore one problem you get a snowball effect of damage. For example, ignore the timing belt and it snapped, there went the entire engine with the pistons hitting the valves bending them. It took very little to force this engine very quickly to the scrap pile.

    Now for the positive. If you have a 5 speed standard or 4 speed, this car could still be worth rebuilding. An auto, I would not waste my time. Ours is a 89 323, coming up on 300K miles. The first engine crank broke at 138K which we decided to scrap it for a new crate engine. Still a top performer in the stable after that decision right down to the new a/c put in a few years back. It comes with the cost of sticking to a good pm schedule and a careful eye on it that became knowlegable of it over 10 years.

    Best to you, whatever your decision. You may wish to review past posts on this engine before doing anything. Better to be informed before spending your money. One trouble spot in its history has been breaking crankshafts, the other has been the distributor. Use the search engine in this forum to gain more info on it. Search distributor then crankshaft.

    On the other hand, should you decide to replace this car, take a few walks in the junk yard and look at cars that are not wrecked. Note the age and mileage it comes in at. Now a days, if it does not make at least 200K on the odometer, it is a piece of junk before it gets in the yard. One such brand that makes 20 years and 200K plus very consistly is Toyota. I have an 86 Tercel in service still. Most of them have been junked.
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    If there's more wrong with this engine than just the head gasket, then it's going to the scrap yard. That's why I'm trying the Bar's first - there's enough reports of success with products like it to give it a shot, and I can see where I stand after that.

    Although that does raise a question: how can I tell if there's a bigger problem beyond the head gasket? I'm no car expert, and I've never had a serious engine problem before, but I would think it would run horribly, if at all, and it isn't doing that.

    Anyway, I'm thinking I need to verify water pump function to know that the Bar's is circulating to the cracks. The radiator hoses stiffen when the car's running, but does that really mean anything? If it does, then why doesn't the bottom radiator hose get warm? What kinds of tests can I try here?
  • ahab_2001ahab_2001 Member Posts: 4
    I have a 1991 323, front-wheel drive, on which I'd like to patch an exhaust hole. I am a bit perplexed by where to place the hydraulic floor jack and jack stands, however. The manual I have (Chilton's) says: "When using stands, use the side members at the front or trailing axle front mounting crossmember at the rear for placement points," but there is no illustration, and I'm a bit challenged on the terms in question (as well as the best placement point for the floor jack to set up for the stands).

    Can anyone out there provide any insight?

    Thanks,
    Stewart
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    I can tell you are new, but wise enough to ask questions, very good. Assuming answers in car repair can be way too expensive.

    Have an 89 323 almost 300K on it. Should be similiar. Few points to jack up on it. To patch an exhaust problem, I would drive it up on ramps usually here.

    Otherwise, in the front, there is usually a cross member somewhere underneath holding up the engine. On ours, that member goes from under bumper assembly to the firewall. I do not use it though because it gives an uneven lift. I usually center on the front sway bar under the front bumper. When you do try yours, watch to make sure you are not crushing anything. I center between the two front rubber frame mounts. I use the front tow hooks to put jack stands under it.

    In the rear, where the axle assemblies fasten to the center of the car is usually a good point to jack up.

    Use plenty of common sense here and don't get into a rush until you get more used to the car doing repairs. That applies to any new vehicle you encounter. that will always serve you well when working on one. Never assume anything, cause in this trade, everything changes fast! Buying a new car here and we added factory service manuals to the purchase. plan to keep it a while, might as well have correct info! hopefully another 300K miles/ 20 plus years.

    I have also found that not all service manuals have all the info you need. Check the library for more books with info you need in them. It never ceases to amaze me how incomplete Chilton's and Haynes can be at times.
  • thevinethevine Member Posts: 12
    As i'm familiar with this board and know some great informed ppls & minds at work a quick question.

    My girlfriend is looking at buying an older Geo Prism, which looks to be the same car as Toyota Corolla.

    1991 with 89,000 @$1,000 clean as can be and well maintained w/very little rust.

    Any comments? (and yes looking into the proper forum now =-)

    Art
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    Smart move, even I have been looking at what people are saying about a new model we are about to drop money on. Dealers are beginning to become painfully aware of those of us who are more informed.

    91 Prizm, may be a Toyota. Not positive though. Price seems steep for an 18 year old, so that means current owner needs to prove maintenance a bit more before I dropped any money. If he knows nothing, the car will talk!

    So it is a serious talk with the car if the owner has not kept a maintenance file. Yup, I'm nuts. We elect people into Washington who shoot other people, so why can't an old wise woman???? give advice on used car buying? Dealers hate me at times, because I fly under their radar until they known me. Then they know, I take no bull.

    Who drove this car, sounds low mileage for a 91? Even at 89K a lot bad can be done to a car. How long does girlfriend want to keep this one? The longer, the better.

    Pull the oil dipstick. How does it look. Hopefully not changed. The condition of the oil will tell you a lot. Ask who and how often they change the oil. What kind of oil they use. If it has been changed, pull the PCV valve and open the oil cap. Take a strong flashlight and look inside valve cover. Should look clean with no gunk buildup. If you see a gunk in it other than a light varnish, walk away/bargain lower price. If a/c works, reconsider carefully. Penzoil and Quaker State are bad for this. Most Toyota heads and camshafts get replaced if worn out at a later date. Been there and have that problem on the 86 I rebuilt. Valves nicely adjusted, valve train looked good and passed inspection at overhaul. 30K later, she is tapping away. Valves are still in adjustment. I have researched this one the "hard way!"

    Check the radiator. If you have an antifreeze tester, use it. How does the coolant look. Hoses show any signs of replacement? Probably not at 89K, but their age renders them questionable. What you are looking for is what kind of care has been given to this car.

    Auto or manual. At this age, I prefer manual. Fact is, not many sell today, because most people do not know how to really drive! Auto, pull the dipstick. Color of fluid should be a nice pinkish red. Smell it. If it smells burned, that is bad news. This applies to discolored oil. Did someone install an additional transmission cooler? If so, was it for towing? If not for towing, it was a PM move to extend the life of the transmission which upgrades the maintenance score as far as a purchase is concerned. What about last fluid changes?

    Tires, matching or different brands. 2 of these, 2 of those or all different. Same is best. Check the date codes, if any on sidewalls. If they have a lot of tread and no date code/over 4-6 years, you have a dry rot problem coming, but a true low mileage car. Still worth considering. Four different kinds of tires, someone did not care much for this car.

    Fire it up. How does it sound? Hit the air: pop in a thermoter in the vent with a/c in recirculate. If she gets cold and you live in south, she is easily worth a grand in my book.

    From there, use common sense on how it drives. Do not hesitate to see if you can have a mechanic look at it. If told no, I would be a bit concerned.

    Check for body work. Even if it has had some, at this age it makes little difference other than it is sound.

    Write down your inspection findings and read over them before you decide.

    Like my father told me years ago, if it is for sale, there is a reason. It is up to you to determine that reason. So Dr. Holmes, hopefully it was driven by a little old lady and it is a true "creme puff." If so, move on it.

    You are wise to think carefully even on a low mileage. The more positive answers you get the better. But be aware, when it comes to maintenance records, any thing goes on used. Even some of us good mechanics have been burnt on deals. The dealers get burnt all the time. I have been burnt. Exactly why we thinking hard about new. Getting too old to mess with these things. The more you know beforehand, the better. One reason why my husband does not get screamed at when the car breaks, my department! So who am I going to scream at?

    Best to you on this endeavor, involve her if possible on the deal. If she is involved learning and making the decision, the less she can scream at you if all goes wrong! The more informed she is on what she bought, the better as well.
  • ahab_2001ahab_2001 Member Posts: 4
    GCB, thanks very much -- great info and confirms what I was thinking. I may end up using ramps instead as you suggest; I was starting to lean in that direction anyway!

    Cheers,
    Stewart
  • lovelearnlovelearn Member Posts: 3
    We bought what was described as the complete 3-ring binder Shop Manual for our Mazda 323.
    Its table of contents lists the last section (50) as Wiring Diagram.
    But the last page in our manual is section (40) Special Tools.
    Could someone please scan in the Wiring Diagram and post it as an image file so we can download and print it to complete our Shop Manual?

    Our 323 has the B6 EGI (not DOHC) engine with 4-speed manual transmission.
    I and my female friend who owns this 323 would be very grateful for this help.
    Her father bought the car new, drove it for a few years, then gave it to her.
    So its entire history is known. I has traveled 87 thousand miles to date. During the last thousand miles it developed a stalling symptoms like what numerous other reports describe. So I'm trying to chase down possible causes. We do not have access to the "SST" (Self Diagnosis Checker) tool and the nearest Mazda Dealer, about 60 miles away does not have one either.

    Thanks for any help with that Wiring Diagram (50) scan.
    LoveLearn
  • lovelearnlovelearn Member Posts: 3
    1989 323 4-speed manual standard engine has a plug-in wiring-loom section with 4 plug connectors to injectors, 1 plug connector to block-mounted sensor, and two leads, one black, one brown, both of which were cut off of chewed off by some rodent. To what are those two wires supposed to connect?

    Still need a wiring diagram image that I can study for this car,
    which section of our 3-ring-binder Shop Manual is missing.

    Any help would be appreciated.
    John
  • jjfranksjjfranks Member Posts: 2
    i have a mazda 323 1987 4-door sedan i'am looking for the drivers side rear brake light assembly and also i need the passenger front side marker light lense please someone help me
  • kujhackujhac Member Posts: 14
    Try JunkYardDog.com and put your request up for multiple junk yards to see. Trust me, you'll get a slew of replies.
  • jjfranksjjfranks Member Posts: 2
    i 'am looking for a rear brake light assembly for the drivers side part # 51-150Z thats the madza part number i tried junkyard dog.com with no luck i need one of you mazda 323 lovers who might have some parts laying around to help find me one please somebody out there must have some parts like this some where.

    please help me find this light.thank you olzalero@msn.com
  • sschmidsschmid Member Posts: 28
    I have not had much luck findind spare parts for these old 323's. I am in need of a driverside windshield moulding and a fuel sending switch for a 92 and have not been able to find one for ages. For now i just reset the tripometer every tank and just have no moulding there. Good luck in your quest. If you do find a parts car somewhere be sure to post for those of us still looking!
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    This response is for everyone looking for parts. Most Mazda's hit the yard between 10-20 years. heavy around 15 years. Over the years, I have learned to stock up body parts and electronics, because after 20 they all become hen's teeth.

    Now.....if you still have dealer contacts with a dealer who will dig stuff up that may still be out there, call him. You would be surprised what some of them can find. If not, try this dealer. diamond mazda. 1-800-527-0189. they have gotten a few things for me, but not cheap. I pay the price!

    Also, on a rear bumper I needed for an 86 Toyota took me a lot of time searching on the internet. Finally found one after several days in a junk yard across the country.

    Check every new and used parts supplier you can find. Look in parts catalogs. If you speak Spanish, try some places in Mexico. They run a few years behind us on parts supplies. It can be done, but is time consuming. Find out what other vehicles the part may have been used on. Contact places like LKQ and Pull a Part via phone and internet. Look for e-mail resources that may contact you when a car comes in. Pull a Part has that. The last 89 323 I saw was about 6 months ago at a LKQ. It has become tough finding parts, but there are still a few. Check e-bay motors for parts as well. You never know.

    Happy hunting......
  • shrub69shrub69 Member Posts: 3
    so my car was smoking recently. i stopped and lifted the hood it appeared to be smoking out from my spark plugs the rest of the engine seems to get really hot quickly i cant ever seem to drive more than a couple hours sometimes less before its hot n needs to cool also it doesnt always turn off all that well. any ideas on how i can make it better would help very much i know a lil about cars and try to do as much of the work myself if i can
  • kitkat250kitkat250 Member Posts: 13
    Check your gaskets you probably have an oil leak my car would always run on in the summer but fine in the winter. there is a gasket on the right side down under the distributor that seems to leak. Mine would smoke really bad sometimes. There is a Chilton guide ( I think that is what they are called) for them. That gasket is defective. I don't own the Mazda anymore. :)
  • shrub69shrub69 Member Posts: 3
    ty very much i think ur rite in the same area on my car is a puddle of what im sure is oil im thinking a gasket or a seal also hopeing it doesnt cost 2 much to fix i need this car im still paying it off
  • kujhackujhac Member Posts: 14
    What bothers me more than the oil leak is the overheating. How hot is the engine getting? Was this city driving or on the highway?
  • 91323vic91323vic Member Posts: 18
    1 look a simple test if water is flowing thru your system,is to start car,run for a while to running temp. turn off and check radiator with your hand on the front of it if water is flowing correctly the whole radiator from top to bot should be warm or hot if the bot feels in any way cooler, than you are dealing with blocked cores , restricted waterflow 2 next get a assistant to rev motor to 3 grand an now look at the radiator hoses for vacumm closing caused from worn hoses the pre ignition from your earlier post indicates advancement or even over fueling hope that help you in your repairs
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    For 1989, the Mercury Tracer had the same engine as the Mazda 323. Here's the deal:

    Turns over but won't start.New plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor.Getting spark at the distributor main wire, end of the plug wire, and at the plug. The spark is possibly a little weak (?) but it's there.The plugs have gas on them. Not igniting at the right time? Spark not strong enough?The test for the positive side of the coil had passed initially, but now it's failing... According to the Tracer manual's troubleshooting chart, this points to an ignition issue. But if that's true, why was it passing before? Blah...If the key was in the ignition, and the door was open, the ignition buzzer used to stay on constantly. Now it stays on for 5 seconds and stops. For whatever that's worth.The timing belt is intact. Can't speak for the timing.The main fuse is good.I did a basic visual check for shorts. Didn't see anything.
    Coils and distributors for this car aren't cheap, so I'd rather not replace anything else without a firm diagnosis.

    I've reached the limit of my knowledge. Any help from the experts is greatly appreciated.
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    I have written a lot on this common problem for the 323. Do a word search on distributor for that info. Bottom line. If the plugs have much more than 30K miles, replace because they are worthless when it comes to firing. If the module in the distributor is oil soaked, and/or the cap itself, then you will need to clean the oil out of the distributor. Remove it and disassemble and clean well with soap and water. Use dawn dishwashing liquid. There is also a mod I listed for the oil soaking problem on the distributor.

    You will need to verify the ignition timing and valve train timing as well. I also wrote a section on how to scribe the distributor timing location BEFORE you pull it so it should restart easily. This engine can be a real headache in this department. Be ready to spend some time thinking.

    Rock Auto shows the coil to be about $60. Cheap for a car now a days.
  • glowplugzglowplugz Member Posts: 5
    @ 135k miles, old faithful needs a new clutch. It's starting to slip in 4th gear (it's a 4 spd). I will need to have a shop do the work for me. I was wondering what a typical price for this work would be. Also, should I have them replace the main seal while they are at it? (the car has no leaks.)

    I don't know if it's considered "bad customer etiquette", but I was also thinking about supplying the clutch kit to the shop. What would be a recommended brand?

    -Thanks
  • sschmidsschmid Member Posts: 28
    Most shops will not let you supply your own parts. You may have a good relationship with your mechanic who will be willing to do so though. My son had his clutch done on the same car and it ran about $900, parts included.
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    girlcarbuilder,

    I believe I found your posts about working on the distributor. I've compiled them here (as a checklist for myself): Distributor tips

    Let me know if I have the right info.
    Thanks.
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    Yes, that is pretty much part of it. If you click on someones name in a post, it will bring up their page as well as posts they have made over time. Another tip would be to use a small screwdriver on the distributor cap towers and scribe the numbers for each cylinder each one is for. On Mazda, that covers 86-89. Info begins to vary though for earlier and later years. Tracer, I am not knowledgeable of, but I know a particular engine when I see it under someones elses hood! I saw a Mazda manual transmission in a church members 2001 Escort this past Sunday for example.

    One thing I have learned all of these years, a bit of common sense goes a long way and short cuts can be applied on other models, if thought out carefully.

    UPDATE. The distributor plug system in the oil holes so far as done well in our 89 for several years now. I have not cleaned oil out since then. So that idea has panned out very nicely so far.

    That signal from the chip in the distributor also sets the timing for the fuel injectors. You can check to see if they are firing by putting a stethoscope probe on each one and listen for a clicking noise. That noise will be loud and firm in the stethoscope. Harbor Freight has a nice one for about $5.00. No clicking brings the chip in the distributor and/or the ECU into suspect.

    Congrats on your persistence. That is how I learned this stuff.....hard headed I get told at times!
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    I need to know how the plug wires match up to the distributor on a '89 323. Please describe it by matching up where the post is on the distributor - Top, Right, Bottom, Left - with the order of plugs going left to right on the engine - 1, 2, 3, 4. (So e.g. Top = 1, etc.)

    Thanks.
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    I thought the ignitor was inside of, or part of, the distributor. If you'd replaced the distributor, wouldn't you have been replacing the ignitor as well?
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    Does anyone know how to get this pin out of the distributor (see diagram):
    image

    The pin holds that cylindrical jobby on to the shaft, and apparently It's all part of the pick-up set. I thought the pin was the threaded kind that took a hex wrench, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

    Hey girlcarbuilder, how far should I be going with taking the distributor apart in order to clean it (per your posts about oil getting in there)?
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    Bear with me. Under the weather. To answer someone else's question, replacing the distributor will not solve the oil flooding problem caused by higher blowby from a high mileage engine. Not to mention, they do a bit less than I do! This one is for free!

    Firing order is 1-3-4-2 with cylinder #1 on the timing belt end of the engine. Number one should be marked on the cap. Number one should also be the one highest up. Rotation is counter clock wise. Whenever I tune up, I scratch the tower numbers on all towers along with date and mileage on the cap.

    Read everything below first and work the procedure in your mind second, then handle it!

    Now for disassembly. Funny, as many times I had this thing apart until I figured out the real problem was blowby, I can not recall. So much for memory, but put the spare one I set up years ago, my hands recall just fine. I assume you have removed the rotor and the top screw in the shaft at this point. Check the shaft for sideplay. None should be felt. Too much, reject the unit for another one to rebuild, but hold for spare parts. Now to remove the magnet, "star" shaped thing, I recall using two medium flat blade screw drivers between the magnet aka reluctor I believe and the pickup coil below which has a plastic case! So be careful and read first! Have a clean bench area. Turn each screwdriver like you would a screw and slowly press the reluctor off. Pay attention where the roll pin takes off to and hides! This will give you access to further disassembly. Also pay attention to which spacers come from under the pickup and under the opposing part. See view. Yup, this is the same distributor We have!

    To press that reluctor back on, I started it and the pin on the shaft then turned the distributor upside down on the bench and carefully pressed it back on. Pay attention to which is top and bottom on the reluctor. Wrong way, and it will not work. I recall some kind of mark on the top side.

    Take apart to the point where the main shaft is stripped down, but not removed from the housing. After the counterweights is the point I stopped at. I used a regular wheel bearing grease to relube those weights when I reassembled.

    Clean plastic parts with Dawn dishwashing water, old toothbrush and hot water. Do not clean the base unit because it still has bearings in it. Use carb cleaner spray on the base and other metal parts as needed. Dry and air out everything as needed. Look carefully at pickup unit for cracks in plastic case. If it is cracked, does not mean it does not still work. It does mean it will fail sometime. I have yet to have to replace one yet. I have a few from junk yard with complete distributors as spares. Last time I checked price on pickup, it was over $300, so treat it very nicely!

    As for the new oil plugs I installed in the bottom, I use cutoff brads from a basic curtain rod hanger for a valance. Call wife if needed for this! I tend to have a one up on many mechanics in this department! The nails, brads, aka pins, plugs are shortened to avoid interference with the mechanics in the base of the unit and then carefully pressed in place. I would start with one pin first to see how that does. Reassemble, reinstall. If you have to, you can always press the second one if it proves to allow too much oil flow still. I used carb cleaner spray to clean out both holes before pressing in a pin. But if you block off too much oil flow, then you will destroy the bearings in the unit and will have to replace the distributor. I also used carb cleaner to blow oil out of the base of the unit that was not disassembled any further.

    The litmus test after you reinstall is whether or not the cap stays dry, free from oil after you put the car back into service. Mine has a little still, but not enough to cause problems. Some oil is normal lubrication underneath. If it works, I have learned not to mess with it in some cases. This is one of them. Come to think of it, car has 80K more miles on it since doing this.

    Other than this, I have had to replace the vaccuum advance and the wire harness on these units. The capactor is a radio interfence part, but even after it died, I never had a problem with interference on the radio. So I never replaced it.
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    Wow, thanks for the detailed rundown. Simply awesome, as always.

    Two follow-up questions:
    1. Firing order: So the top-most plug wire on the distributor goes to cylinder #1, then going counter-clockwise, left to #3, bottom to #4, and right to #2?
    2. There's a resin-encased chip of some sort - a little black cube about 3/4" square - on the side of this distributor. I've heard mention of both an ignitor and ignition module (same thing?) and I'm wondering if that's it. Going through different posts on the no-start issue, there appears to be conflicting info about which components in, or on, the distributor are actually going bad that necessitate having to replace the whole thing.

    Hope you feel better soon! Getting a little chilly out there for drag racing with the top down. Whoops, this is a 323 forum - I guess it doesn't get that exciting for us :P
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    Well, cleaning out the distributor didn't help. Once I had it apart, I discovered there wasn't much oil in there anyway. I'm guessing you had a lot in yours. I then got to wondering if a quick visual inspection with just the distributor cap off would have told me right away if cleaning was even worth trying.

    Anyway, live and learn. I guess now, unless anyone has any other ideas, I'm going to buy a used distributor from the junk yard. I'd like to try replacing the little black chip on the side of the distributor first, but I don't suspect they sell those separately.

    Any ideas appreciated as the ol' landlord is starting to get on me to get 'er gone.
  • 91323vic91323vic Member Posts: 18
    i figure the posts before could have answered your question rebuild the dist place in the slot, lineup power stroke in 1st pot to markers put a screwdriver in the first pot for reference sake,the dis cap stay`s off, the coil wire( using insulate long nose pliers) and rotor button should be 3to4mm away from each other, with ign on, then twist the dist in the hole until elec fires this will indicate exactly where your dist is suppose to be and number ones post from there the firing order will be1342 elect junction on top,indicator on collar should be nearly in line with no.1post a pencil away,if you didn`t get a spark between the coil and rotor button,check coil near a earthed part of the body,look for cracks in the rotor see if the transfer carbon post is in the dist cap is there, if any problem take to auto elect,and get it bench tested and take coil too hope that help you 91323 :sick:
  • 91323vic91323vic Member Posts: 18
    and that anti clock wise firing order, from the top position,it should literally sit at the very top of the slot and only needs fine tuning, keep starting to check off,advancement with rev rate at 2000, put the plug back in before spark test i forgot to mention that, helps the elect continuity,you`ll never get it, if you dont, it will read dead,no spark :sick: .
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    Okay....lets recheck a few things. First, take your timing light and check each plug wire for a spark. Also check the coil wire. Take your stethoscope and check each fuel injector for a clicking noise. Do these tests while someone is cranking the engine. No spark and no clicking means we have something going wrong from distributor pickup, the black module with wires attached, to and possibly including the ECU. If you get both a spark and clicking noise then those systems are working and we are dealing with timing the ignition system correctly. If you get spark and no clicking or clicking and no spark, let me know asap.

    If you do not have these tools, they are a must to fix this. Harbor Freight again.

    Bear with me, doing the Vulcan mind meld with a 20 year old 323 is a bit rough long distance.....but it will not be the first I fixed that way. Hopefully it will not be the first not fixed.

    How far away are you from Baton Rouge, LA?
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    Okay, I will gather the tools together and recheck those things. In the meantime, I'll just reiterate from my first post that I was getting a weak spark. I didn't use a timing light, just the standard tests of the plugs, wires, etc, against the block. (By the way, the plugs, plug wires, dist cap, and rotor are all brand new.) Never checked the injectors - will give those a listen.

    I live in Minnesota.
  • 91323vic91323vic Member Posts: 18
    or you can feed each pot,some fuel like a full choke, thru the spark holes put them back connect spark plug: wires in and crank, admittedly not the done thing, but this is another method to check off air meter and elect continuity,instant result, or not,i was scratching my head first up with the very same problems, just a simple wires, cap, and air meter filter replacement, just note how much you regulate in each pot,10ml-15mm is adequate, to vaporize. :sick: 91323
  • listerinelisterine Member Posts: 17
    Well, I replaced the distributor yesterday with one from the junkyard (since it had already been ordered), but still no start. If I understand 91323vic's instructions from a previous post, I should try rotating the distributor while someone else turns it over? Or just with the ignition in the ON position? Or should I just verify the timing right now before doing anything else?

    RE 91323vic's post above: Is he saying I should try spraying a little starter fluid in the cylinders and see what happens when it turns over? Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can fill in the gaps because I'm having a little trouble understanding him.

    @ girlcarlbuilder: Going to try borrowing a timing light from Autozone (and bring my old distributor in for a bench test while I'm there.) Once I have that, and a stethoscope from the surplus store, and a friend to turn it over, I'll try your tests next. 91323vic's tests caught my attention simply because I don't have the tools you mention.

    Thanks for everyone's patience and advice. Obviously, my knowledge of automechanics is limited. I understand basically what timing is and why it's fundamental, but I've never had a timing issue on a vehicle before. It occurred to me in the beginning that the timing could be off here, but so many other posts pointed to the distributor. Frankly, I just didn't know what the proper order of operations was after seeing the weak spark at the plug.
  • 91323vic91323vic Member Posts: 18
    okay line up timing marks on motor, under drivers side wheel, so take off wheel,and cover,the screw driver tell firing stroke,because there is exhaust stroke and fire stroke, take cap off grab coil wire with ign on and twist dist this should if in the right place snap elect current for first pot it you have it right,it could be :sick: a petrol problem because you can now see spark drop 10 ml of petrol in each pot this will start it but not run for long it will tell you that your timing is correct check fuses check fuel pump
  • 91323vic91323vic Member Posts: 18
    weak spark is fine at least you have it :sick:
  • 91323vic91323vic Member Posts: 18
    do not touch coil wire with rotor button or it will weld together keep a pencil thickness away secondly the power stroke is the lowest stroke in the pot the exhaust stroke is the highest that`s why you need the screwdriver to show you this, if your setting to exhaust stroke your petrol its exiting to exhaust i found that when it started a plume for 3mins of the fuel((and don`t crank with ign)) turn with hand while screwdrivers in pot.91323vici am soory i didn`t get with your program sooner i figured you were in good hands, follow these methods i got my up and running :sick:
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    Vic is a bit difficult for me to follow. But I will say this, It takes four things to make an engine run. Take one of them away and it will not start. Airflow, good fuel, good spark and timing. Timing issues come in the form of spark and valve and in fuel injection systems....fuel as well.

    A weak spark in the Mazda 323 engine is going to be a problem in 323's. Oil issues in the distributor can create a weak spark to no spark and at times an erractic spark.

    If you did not verify ignition, spark timing, before taking it down. that is the next thing to do. Do not rely totally on Autozone to give you a go, no go on the distributor. I have seen too many times a part is either good or bad when they declared the opposite.

    In terms of cranking while turning the distributor, I prefer to hold the timing light at the marks on the crankshaft pulley to see which way is the correct way to turn.

    Verify your spark being present and your injectors then proceed to set your timing. Get a book to see where the marks are and how to use a timing light.
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