Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

hurler4 · March 2003

paisan, do you know if the moonroof option will be for all 04 Imprezas? I'm interested in the TS Wagon, but probably wouldn't consider it without a moonroof...

ateixeira · March 2003

Yep, our 2002 Legacy L had only a cassette player, no CD. I promptly installed a take-off 6CD from a WRX. 2003s have a single CD standard, but no more cassette player.

I doubt the OBS will get the moonroof option.

Go aftermarket, though. We put an ASC Model 750 in our Legacy, 17"x30", with one-touch open/close/tilt. It's even programmable. I leave it open on purpose, sometimes, so when I remove the key it closes itself.

Very nifty, it impresses everyone.

-juice

nippononly · March 2003

warnings about leaks in aftermarket roofs? What is your considered opinion? Was it all bunk even then, or have they gotten a lot better?

And BTW, if Subie can put a moonroof in the WRX, why ON EARTH can't they make it an option on OBS and TS wagons?

paisan · March 2003

Maybe you were thinking of the XT6, although that did come with a 5MT. That had 195-60-14 tires on the FWD model and 205-60-14s on the AWD ones.

-mike

nippononly · March 2003

was a very cool car, but what a complete transformation from it to the SVX!

paisan · March 2003

Different beasts. I found the XT6 much more tossable than my SVX is. But the SVX handled high speed stuff much better and the power of the 3.3L H6 is incredable!

-mike

pun14 · March 2003

Can anyone tell me when the timing belt is supposed to be replaced on my 99 OBS? Besides regular inspections, is there a standard? 60k? 90k? 105k?

thanks!

SP

bluesubie · March 2003

It depends. CA emissions? My 97 OBS called for replacement at 105K with CA emmissions.

-Dennis

ateixeira · March 2003

ASC approved providers offer a life time warranty on their work. The shop actually installs a new headliner, so if there was a leak they'd be able to replace the headliner again easily.

Bonus - the headliner is a padded fabric, far better than the mouse fur/dryer lint/peach fuzz (pick your insult) Subaru uses on the OE headliner.

Both our Subies have ASC roofs, and I've owned one other. None ever leaked. Friends have owned 2 more, again no leaks.

The belt should be inspected at 90k, replaced at 105k. Since you pay for labor already, just replace it at 90k.

-juice

nippononly · March 2003

had my CA timing belt inspected at 90K, but just replaced it at 105K...they can't tell a thing from an inspection anyway...

and if it is not a CA car, isn't the replacement interval 60K? Anyone?

It was 60K for non-California OBS in the '97 model year, that much I know.

raybear · March 2003

Are all 105K on recent models.

nippononly · March 2003

cured my laziness and went and looked, and model year 1999 is when all the timing belts became 105K...

xccoachlou · March 2003

Juice,

How much quieter is that new headliner? And how much would it be, if you would guess, just for a headliner, if you don't have a sunroof?

- Lou

ateixeira · March 2003

I didn't really notice a difference. It wasn't loud before, and isn't now.

It is softer to the touch, and more aesthetically pleasing. The OE one is like cardboard sprayed with peach fuzz and dryer lint.

I used Adler & Mandell, and by the way they are an upholstery specialist. Call them and ask, it's (301) 881-3525.

I had my pop-up installed for $370, but $70 of that was to cut the roof rails shorter. So $300 included the pop-up glass roof and the headliner.

The headliner alone can't be too much, maybe half that or so.

-juice

pun14 · March 2003

First I wanna thank you guys who discuss in here for providing me and others with answers to our questions. good info. you guys rock. I appreciate it.

couple more questions.

99' OBS, bought used at 48k. had to replace the clutch which was BS. now that the clutch is replaced I thought all was good, till I noticed an abnormally extreme amount of chatter when the clutch is hot/used for a while. power band gets really narrow to not get the chatter, and that doesn't even guarantee good performance. I have never owned an automatic, would like to think I drive correctly. Had some other people drive it. they verified I am not crazy, but the "clutch specialists" said they couldn't get it to show the problem.

Now I am worried about another premature failure. taking the car back to the clutch shop to complain, but would love some insight from you guys as to if anyone has seen this before?

Question 2: Lost one of those stupid a** hubcaps. how much do they cost? can I only get them from Suby dealer?

Thanks all.

ateixeira · March 2003

I got alloys for my Legacy and sold a set of wheel covers to an OBS owner, so I know what you mean.

You could get a set of cheap/used rims. The OE covers will only come from a dealer and probably cost what an entire set of wheel covers would run aftermarket. Target has "Car & Driver" covers for something like $20 a set.

Question for you, though, did you get an OE clutch, from a dealer?

-juice

hypov · March 2003

if you're due for a tire change, you could get an upgrade to the WRX 16" alloys wheels between $200 ~ $300 from NASIOC guys selling their WRX take offs.

-Dave

ateixeira · March 2003

That's expensive for one missing hub cap, but go for it! LOL

-juice

hypov · March 2003

Ya it's an expensive option, but long term no hubcaps to loose. And the OBS looks truly great with them on.

-Dave

pun14 · March 2003

yeah, it is an OE clutch (supposedly). but it wasn't from the dealer. the shop assured me it was. I may be expressing my ignorance though.

hubcaps? unfortunately I just bough new tires for my car. so that makes upgrading more difficult. go figure it would fall off right after I spend the money. how do those "car and driver" hubs look? can't be any worse than the Original caps. can they?

ateixeira · March 2003

Well, does the shop guarantee their work? Usually for a year shops do. Subaru didn't put it in so I wouldn't excpect any help from them.

They fasten on differently, and there are several styles to choose. Worth a quick drive to Target to check them out.

An alternative would be to find a used hubcap place near you. We have a "Reggie's House of Hubcaps" in Wheaton, MD that I've seen before. Or try a junk yard, this place specializes in Subies:

http://www.fsautoparts.com/

E-mail them and ask for a price quote. You'd still have to pay for shipping, though.

-juice

pun14 · March 2003

So there hasn't been any sort of malfunction with clutchs of that year that cause premature wearing? I only ask cuz the early first replacement and now the acting of my current clutch.

thanks for the tips on the hubcaps.

SP

ateixeira · March 2003

The chatter is a common complaint, but no, it hasn't seemed to affect longevity on the cases I have followed here at Edmunds. So it does not mean yours won't last.

I did see a technical explanation for it once, I should have saved that link.

-juice

nippononly · March 2003

you have to be careful about is the routing of the cable that actuates the clutch...it needs to be able to release smoothly and completely and independent shops do not always put it back right...which is one reason the clutch might chatter if it is not engaging smoothly. This pearl of wisdom from the lead tech at a place I used to go before I moved that specialized in Subarus.

In my old OBS, the clutch pretty much chattered from day one, slightly annoying, but the original clutch was still working fine at 115K when I let it go...

bluesubie · April 2003

But his chatter occurs when it's warm, unlike some of the common cold chatter. If it's OEM, tell the shop to show you a part number.

Call 1800hubcaps in PA. I used them for my 97 OBS just before lease turn-in. Expect to pay around $30-$35 plus shipping no matter who you buy from.

-Dennis

ateixeira · April 2003

See? That's twice what a complete set of the ones at Target cost.

Some OE stuff is priced ridiculously high. Other aren't - like the cargo net. Wholesale price was lower than what I saw for a cheap aftermarket one at Wal Mart.

YMMV, so shop around.

-juice

pun14 · April 2003

so how do you categorize "Chatter" versus "slippage"?

Now, I think of it as slipping since when it engages it feels like it doesn't want to grab so and sort of rapidly "thumps" before being able to grab and accelerate. would "chatter" be characterized as that "jolting" movement like you see when the engine is cold?

can someone clarify? thanks for beating a dead horse.

the car is in the same shop today. the guy is a jerk, says he'll tell me if its chattering or slipping. guess i'll find out soon.

thanks for the insight guys.

sp

rsholland · April 2003

I think of that as a rough, bumpy engagement; and not smooth or pleasant.

I think of a slipping clutch as one that is not completely engaging.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2003

Chatter will shake the car, or at least the drivetrain. You feel it.

Slipping you might not feel. If the revs climb but speed does not, your clutch is slipping. Many people don't even notice.

-juice

pun14 · April 2003

so how do you categorize "Chatter" versus "slippage"?

Now, I think of it as slipping since when it engages it feels like it doesn't want to grab so and sort of rapidly "thumps" before being able to grab and accelerate. would "chatter" be characterized as that "jolting" movement like you see when the engine is cold?

can someone clarify? thanks for beating a dead horse.

the car is in the same shop today. the guy is a jerk, says he'll tell me if its chattering or slipping. guess i'll find out soon.

thanks for the insight guys.

sp

brekke · April 2003

I finally got to see the new Imprezas while waiting for an oil change. I just looked thru the glass but OBS interior seemed the same to me. Really like the blue (exterior). I didn't realize the WRX seats were changed. TS also gets 4 wheel discs. RS has a leather wrapped steering wheel, why not the wagons? Didn't have the guts to ask for a WRX test drive since I'm not car shopping.

ateixeira · April 2003

Eh, ask anyway. So what? They love showroom traffic, they get some spontaneous buyers that way.

So you saw the 2004s, cool.

-juice

nippononly · April 2003

neither of the local dealers has any '04s yet - I want to see the new front end in person!

About time for those rear discs...

BTW, I could make my clutch chatter in my OBS even when it was warm - I just had to linger on the contact spot for a split sec too long, and I could make the whole car shake fit to split in half. Alarmed a few passengers that way, when I had to get the car rolling up one of those steep San Francisco hills!

orangelebaron · April 2003

I saw a bunch of 04's tonight. They are more aggressive looking now with the new lights.

Unfortunately, the OBS still has that ugly abrasive material on the seats and still no side airbags.

At least they put disks in the rear.

nippononly · April 2003

everyone else is able to get an '04 already, and we still have the '03s on the west coast? Shucks.

ateixeira · April 2003

At that price level, does anyone offer side air bags? I guess Subaru could pioneer that feature.

A Forester X has them, and they sell for under $19 grand.

-juice

orangelebaron · April 2003

Matrix and Vibe are supposedly available with side airbags. So is the Focus wagon. Don't forget the Elantra hatch and Santa Fe's. VW Golfs and Jettas have side air bags AND curtains. All these cars are available in the teens.

The WRX has side bags... so there's no reason they can't be in the lesser Imprezas.
But as far as I'm concerned.. head airbags or curtains may be more valuable because they help protect your head/face from hitting the front of the striking vehicle, side glass, etc.

ateixeira · April 2003

Hmm, equip a Santa Fe with ABS and side air bags, and I bet it's closer to $22k. Hyundai makes ABS optional and then builds few models with the option.

Golfs and Jettas also tend to be on the pricey side for sub-compacts.

FWIW, Subies' safety scores are pretty good overall, far better than the Elantra's:

http://www.crashtest.com/subaru/index.htm

-juice

bluesubie · April 2003

"VW Golfs and Jettas have side air bags AND curtains. All these cars are available in the teens."

Yes, but can you actually find a Jetta in the teens? I took a friend of mine shopping for a Jetta. She added only a few options and the price was in the high 20's.

She ended up getting a Legacy GT because she got so much more car for the money.

-Dennis

orangelebaron · April 2003

Yes you can get a base Santa Fe (2003 has standard side airbags) or Jetta in the teens.

A Jetta in the high twenties? Maybe with a VR6 and leather and tax.

ateixeira · April 2003

The 1.8T wagons start at over $20 grand. I wouldn't want the 2.slow engine.

-juice

suvshopper4 · April 2003

... $20,900 for "high twenties".
Just a thought.

damish003 · April 2003

I'm looking to replace my 97 Jeep GC, which will come off lease in late June. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Outback Sport, the TS wagon, and possibly the Toyota Matrix. The only one I haven't been able to test drive is the TS wagon, since the only dealer in the area doesn't have one. If I were to get the TS, I'd add the roof rack and fog lamps that come standard with the Sport. FYI, I do a fair bit of highway driving in an area where we have snow almost half the year. Since I might wish to purchase the new vehicle after a 3 year lease, could someone share their thoughts as to which might be the better vehicle for the money?

rsholland · April 2003

It's a lot of little things:

16" 55-series V-rated tires, standard alloy wheels, ambient temperature gauge, HD raised suspension, rear bumper step pad, rear rubber cargo mat, and roof rack cross bars.

If you were to upgrade the TS, you would still be missing the ambient temperature gauge, raised HD suspension and 16" wheels/tires.

Bob

bluesubie · April 2003

High twenties is 26-27k you comedians. And no, we were not looking at the base engine and yes, she included moonroof and leather.

Like I said, with similiar options she ended up getting a Legacy GT for only a few hundred more than a similarly equipped Jetta.

Dan, my vote is for the OBS for the same reasons as Bob.

-Dennis

damish003 · April 2003

Hmmm...I didn't even know about an ambient temperature gauge. Are you talking about the gauge that shows the outside temperature? I do have that as part of the console on my Grand Cherokee, and it's nice to have. I have to agree about the 16" wheels. As far as I can tell, the TS can't be upgraded for that, and I'd prefer the larger wheels. Actually, I find that if I added every option to the TS that the OB Sport has, I'm only saving about $600 or so, and would still be missing a couple of items. Sounds like the way to go. Since I can't do anything until June/July, I hope the $750 incentive is still in effect.

bluesubie · April 2003

Yes, it's the actual outside temp.
Keep in mind that your best deal will be on an '03. The '04's (with a facelift) are starting to trickle in now. I think Edmunds has info on both. There might be a few leftover '03's in June/July.

-Dennis

damish003 · April 2003

Dennis, I'm hoping that is what happens. I've seen photos of the new OBS's front end, and I actually prefer the current style. My last lease payment is June 11, with turn-in by July 11. With any luck, there will be a few 03's left. Say, does anyone think that the upgraded stereo is worth it for the bucks?

Dan

ateixeira · April 2003

Just an observation, but if you had a Grand Cherokee before, the TS, while a great value no question, may be a bit too much of a step down. The Outback Sport seems like a reasonable progression towards a smaller/sportier car.

Go for it, the extras are cool. You keep cars for a while (the GC is 7 years old), so why not?

-juice

damish003 · April 2003

Juice, I know just what you mean. Size-wise, it will be quite a change. Just so you know, I've only had the Jeep for almost 3 years. I leased it as a used vehicle. But you're right...I think the extras in the OBS might more reflect some things I like in a vehicle. I only took the Jeep off-road a couple times in the years I've been leasing it. I'm one of those who got it for the image, to tell you the truth. Now, I'm trying to be more practical in my next vehicle. Where I live, snow is a constant. Heck, it snowed two days ago (NW PA). I drive all over the NE US every month of the year. In my mind, I NEED all-wheel drive. The Subarus seem to have quite a good reliability record, especially compared to my Jeep. The extra ground clearance of the OSB to the TS is a plus, as well as standard fog lights. I kind of like the Toyota Matrix, but something just doesn't feel quite right sitting in it, as compared to the Subie. Not sure what it is.

I'm really surprised at how much cargo room the Impreza has. When I take into account that my Jeep loses interior space because of the spare tire placement, the useable space is pretty much the same. About the only thing I'll miss is the ability to see over other cars. I can live with that.

Now, the only question is the financing. I'm trying to decide whether to lease a NEW car for three years, or lease a 2002 model for the same. If I go used, I won't pay for the first years depreciation, but the warranty will run out before the lease does, meaning I'll need an extended service contract. I know the Subie is more reliable than the Jeep, but I am very glad I got a service contract when I leased the used Jeep, as it paid for itself in the first six months. Anybody got a thought on that?

Thanks for your time, folks.

Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

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