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Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

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Comments

  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I have it and it's worth it. While it won't be better than some aftermarket systems, it's definitely an improvement over the stock system.

    Bring a CD to the dealer and go for a test drive. :-)

    I put 73,000 miles on my '97 OBS and I didn't have the extended warranty. I never had to pay for any large repairs out of pocket. Of course, YMMV and don't forget that you can get the extended warranty just before the standard warranty runs out.

    -Dennis
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    is so cool!!!

    But far be it from me to steer someone away from the OBS (outback sport), my previous car ('97), and one of the best I ever owned.

    The Matrix will have a LOT more room inside, believe me. The downside is the power is way off in the AWD - 123 hp in a 3000 pound vehicle. And I'm not sure you can get a manual with the AWD. So you will be SERIOUSLY in the slow lane.

    If you want some semblance of the power you have in the JGC, you should go with the OBS. Either way, you get a car with character!

    PS I paid about $1K extra in '97 for a 100K mile warranty for my OBS, and never used it at all. With these cars and just a pinch of luck, you can skip the extra warranties....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The AWD Matrix has just 123hp, it won't get out of its own way. And price one, the OBS is cheaper, even with 165 horses.

    I do like the 130hp FWD Matrix, and the XRS, if you don't need AWD.

    Lease (or even buy) used and don't worry about the warranty. The powertrain is covered for 5/60, so just keep it within that. The powertrain covers most of the stuff that does go wrong on Subies, if that even happens.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Handling on the matrix can't be very good with it's high profile...

    -mike
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    a lot of body roll in the Matrix, because it is high-sided and tall, but it makes up for that by being very tenacious through turns. You may feel it is going to slip, but I have never been able to make it do so, or even make the tires squeal. It has the same exact size tires as the OBS. And it weighs a little less.

    FWIW, Matrix's body roll in tight turns is only a little more than my old OBS, but I know the new OBS has larger wheels and shorter tire sidewalls (55-series instead of 60), and I think it has slightly tighter suspension than the old model too.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    I'll tell you exactly what doesn't feel right about the Matrix/Vibe. Not only did I sit a bunch of times in both at dealerships...I test drove a Matrix (Pontiac wants an appointment......Ha!)
    What isn't right is the steering wheel / driving position.
    I don't know about everyone (I'm 5'11"), but I would have to drive with my arms stretched straight out or maybe just holding on to the bottom of the wheel. I don't know why Toyota even bothered to put a tilt feature...the adjustment is hardly noticeable. If it telescoped...it may be OK. I told the salesman..."until they do something about the steering wheel, there is no way I would buy a Matrix" The arm rests on the doors are useless as well as your forearms just slide right off.
    It's amazing how Toyota put so much emphasis on silly things like chrome dash trim and a fancy electronic red gauge cluster, but forgot about making driving the car comfortable to drive. There were also funny noises coming out of the dash vents during the test drive.
    Sure, the Matrix has a lot of neat features and storage places that the Subaru does not. But the Subaru has a NORMAL driving position, a nice size engine with torque... and you don't have to worry about the mirrors breaking off, because unlike the Toyota, they foldaway!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    uses flush outside mirrors because they produce less noise at speed, and a smaller engine to achieve much better fuel economy. C'mon, let's not bag on Matrix too much, these are both really good cars.

    I would say to anyone test driving a vehicle they are serious in to really pay attention to how comfortable the seating position is for driving. Many people say the corolla and Matrix's seat cushion is too short for their legs. So check that out. I think the seat material in the Matrix is better (less hard, more comfortable) than that in the OBS, but I think the OBS material may be more durable over time, I am not sure.

    BTW, I have got 13K+ on the 'Trix now, and I have never heard funny noises coming from the dash vents - maybe it was something weird in just that car?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    The fixed mirror is quieter argument doesn't work for me. Maybe it's true...but fixed mirrors are cheaper for the manufacturer... and that's the real reason they are on many cars. I drive cars with folding mirrors (Volvo, Mercedes, Mercury) and they don't make any noise worth noting.
    At least put springs in the mirror like on Cavalier, Malibu so it will give when someone bangs into it.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    well, the only two cars I can make a direct comparison between are my '97 OBS and my current matrix, and there, it is noticeable that the outside mirrors produced more wind noise in the OBS than they do in the Toyota. If they are cheaper for the manufacturer, I guess it is a win-win situation.

    I am not sure what it implies, but Toyota actually uses both kinds, pretty much reserving the folding mirrors for the trucks. I think this is because the cars are expected to have lower interior noise levels, while the trucks with their high profiles and squarer front cross-sections are bound to create more wind noise naturally. Since they sell cars that cost more than their cheapest trucks, it would not seem to be JUST a cost thing.

    As far as the springs idea, the effect on wind noise would be the same as a folding mirror, because the "noisemaker" is the little crack where the mirror splits away. The wind gets in it then swirls backing out, which makes noise at highway speeds.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • damish003damish003 Member Posts: 303
    I think Orangelebaron has it right. Now that I think of it, the arm rests are pretty useless. I'm 6'2" and really couldn't find a comfortable position for the seat/wheel combo. The seats did feel comfortable, but I'm not sure how good they would be after 4-5 hours in them.

    One really strange difference I've noticed. According to Edmunds, the Matrix does not have a center differential on its AWD version. What's up with that? Anyone know differently?

    I'm really leaning towards the OSB at this point. Hoping the 2003 leftovers will have that nice incentive come June/July.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Fixed mirrors are cost-cutting, plain and simple. If it's quieter that was just a coincidence. Either way, not a big deal.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If you aren't squeeling the tires on the matrix you are doing something wrong! :) Heck I can even squeel the wheels on my lifted trooper with 275 width tires w/o rolling it :)

    -mike
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    well the Matrix uses 205-width tires with a short sidewall, so I am not surprised I cannot make those tires squeal, considering it only weighs 2800# or so. That is the same width and sidewall height as some premium sport sedans, and it is certainly more than capable of handling the lighter-weight Matrix through the turns.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I always strive to get squeel on my cars, so far the only one I can't do it on is the SVX. The 245-45-16s keep itpretty darn planted! :)

    -mike
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    it is like two inches off the ground! 245/45s is almost overkill on that car - it must be really sweet to take through tight canyons! I saw one listed the other day - a '92 for $8500. It might be fun for me to pick one up for a little while - you see them listed for sale so rarely.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    is the stock size, so I just went a little wider.

    -mike
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    latest idea, owners of OBS will basically have an optioned up base Saab 9-2 in about a year! The new 9-2 will be an Impreza TS. Betcha didn't know you were buying a premium brand when you picked that cute OBS out of the dealer's lot, didja?!

    :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    the 9-2 will probably have lots more luxury items than the OBS. Heck the TS is a great deal now, it has rear discs, ebd, and basically everything you can get in the OBS except 2-tone and 1" of lift.

    -mike
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    standard 16" alloys on OBS and 15" steel on the TS.

    standard cruise and foglights on the OBS...is cruise standard on the TS? I am pretty sure foglights are not.

    The sketch Saab had of the front end of the 9-2 seems impossible to plaster onto the front of an Impreza.

    Still waiting for the '04 Subies to hit the west coast...want to see that new headlight scheme! Saw one on the road the other day, got all excited, then realized it was an older RS that someone had had modified. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm not sure of the cruise control. As for the foglights and rims, I can purchase Hella Foglights that are 100x better than the useless (except for vanity) fog lights that come from the factory for ~$100 and rims, I can get a set of WRX rims for ~$300 with tires.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I believe the 9-2 won't use any body parts, just drivetrain, engine, etc.

    Are you sure there aren't '04's in CA? Usually they're on the West Coast first.

    -Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think they'll use the same chassis as well. Only thing different will be the sheet-metal, and interior. But we'll have to see when it all shakes down.

    -mike
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    was just pointing out the differences in standard equipment, not saying you couldn't accessorize the TS up to the level of the OBS for a few hundred $$. No argument there.

    I recall reading somewhere, but can no longer find on-line, that they were going to use the interiors from the Imprezas in the Saab versions, which seems a little hard to believe. As for exterior sheetmetal, I belive it will be pretty much the same, but front and probably rear fascia will be different to show it is a "Saab". (even though designed and built by Subaru in Japan)

    I WISH my local dealers had some '04s on their lots. I might check again this weekend. Last time I checked was about three weeks ago, and they were overloaded with Bajas, which they seem to have a very hard time selling, and still trying to sell some '02 Legacys.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    I thought I read in the .pdf format of the Impreza brochure, available online, that EBD and 4 Wheel ABS Disc Brakes are now standard across the line? :)

    - Lou
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool Lou.

    Saab really ought to upgrade the interior, what's the point if they don't? It'll very likely cost more.

    Baja sales in March doubled over February, and April was good too I believe. One dealer I visited was down to their last Baja, and it was the one in the showroom! I couldn't even get a test drive, LOL.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    EBD and ABS is standard across the impreza line, not sure if the Foresters all get it.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hope so, it would certainly make sense that way.

    -juice
  • damish003damish003 Member Posts: 303
    I'm not sure what to think about the OBS. I was given a 2003 OBS this past Saturday to test drive, and will be returning it today. I must say that I appreciate being able to drive one this long, rather than the 1/2 hour drive you usually get. I have a few impressions, and a couple of questions.

    First, the OBS drives very, very well. More power than I expected for an automatic 4-banger. I drove it on the highway...no problem passing or in on-ramp acceleration. Good amount of storage room, not very good for rear passengers, but I almost never have someone in the backseat anyway. The base stereo is rather week, so I'm inclined to upgrade, either through Subaru or aftermarket. The handling...oh, the handling. Like it's on rails...this has me sold on Subaru, regardless of model. I just love how it grips the road. The seats are comfortable enough, as I actually like firm seats. The material isn't plush, but doesn't seem as though it will come apart anytime soon, so it's OK. Fog lights...wonderful. Cruise...no problem at all, nice and responsive. Brakes...not very touchy, but seem fine. The usual views on the cupholders and placement of cruise/foglight switches apply.

    Now here's where I'm undecided. First problem for me is the placement of the rear-view mirror. I sit very tall in a car. Even if I completely lower the drivers seat, the rear-view mirror is on the same level as my eyes. Making right hand turns, or seeing traffic approaching from an intersection (right side) is very problematic. I end up with almost a blind spot there, and this is a major problem. Can the mirror be placed higher up on the windshield? Does anyone know if it's possible? Second problem...the entry/egress is so much different that it's bothering me. It's pushing me towards the Forester, assuming I can afford one. And that's pretty much it for problems.

    I am really sold on a Soobie, for the handling and reliability mainly. It's going to come down to an OBS or a Forester, and the cost is going to be important. I'd go used, but only back to 2002, for the re-design. I'd like to own, but coming off a lease gives me no trade-in value to apply. I don't want to spend more than $1500 out of pocket, nor spend over $300/month. That either means long term payments to own (84 months), which seems crazy to me, or just go with a 42-48 month lease, and consider purchase at lease end.

    So if anyone knows about the mirror deal I mentioned, or has any thoughts on Lease/Own, I'd greatly appreciate the help. Looking forward to joining the rest of you Soobie fans. Many thanks.

    Dan
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The mirror should have two "elbows", i.e. joints, so you should have some adjustment upward. But it's not a big car.

    The Forester has much better headroom and would address that. It also sits higher by a couple of inches, so it's easier to get in and out of.

    Go drive a Forester. If you still find it fun, get that. If not, go with the OBS. I think you liked it enough that you would get used to the mirror position and enjoy owning it.

    fitzmall.com has an OBS for $18,504, Forester X models from $18,904. OBS has alloys and two-tone paint vs. the X's unpainted cladding, but otherwise they're similarly equipped.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Dan-
    Is this the non-dimming type?
    If so, you can raise the mirror by pivoting the base (the joint attached to windshield) up and then adjust the mirror.

    -Dave
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I noticed in my Outback that the mirroe seemed to be much lower after I got the car back from the body shop...it was constantly in the way and I was ducking to see under it. I didn't realize for 2 weeks that the hinge that supports the mirror is double jointed and can articulate all the way up to the ceiling and still be angled to where I can see out the back. When normally adjusting the mirror, you are usually only moving one of the pivot points...grab the whole mirror with both hands and shove it towards the roof. It's amazing how noticable that extra inch or so of clearance is!

    Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    And re-glue it in a different spot to suit your needs. That's what I'd do. It's a relatively easy proceedure.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Be careful not to crack the windshield, though. We took one off a junk yard car (it had lights and was for my Miata sans lights), and the glue held on strong enough to crack the windshield.

    -juice
  • damish003damish003 Member Posts: 303
    Post, wait 1/2 hour, find five answers...good lord, are you folks speedy on the message board. Thanks for the responses...once it stops raining, I'll check the mirror out (pivot joint) to see how it is then.

    I like the Forester, and have driven it, but unless I go used I can't afford it. I really wish I had a 4-5k trade-in right now. Only having a grand or two to spend upfront, and keeping a payment to $300, really limits my options. Perhaps I can find a well-maintained 2002 OBS. I'll have to torture my local dealer on that. If anyone is in the Erie, PA area, check out New Motors. Their service reputation is fantastic, from what I understand. Thanks for the answers.

    Dan
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    fitzmall.com has a location in Gaithersburg, MD. I'm not sure how far that is from you.

    The Forester is just $500 or so more.

    Used ones don't depreciate very quickly, so I'd stick with new and work out a good lease with a balloon purchase at the end, something like that.

    Also, the average car payment is above $400 nowadays, per NADA. Just an FYI.

    -juice
  • damish003damish003 Member Posts: 303
    Gaithersburg, MD is not anywhere near me, but thanks anyway. "Average car payment is above $400"? Really?? I had no idea...must be all those high-priced SUV's. As to the Forester, to get one set up the way the OBS I've been driving, would be at least $2,000 more. I adjusted the mirror in the OBS, per comments above, and that solved the problem.

    I'm probably going back to the lease idea, at least for now. I don't believe in putting a lot down on a lease just to improve the monthly payment, since if the car gets wrecked, the money down is history. When I dropped off the car last night, my salesman and I had a good discussion about the pros and cons. He worked up a lease payment of $ 262.00 for 36 months, with security deposit and first month down. This is quite a bit lower than Edmunds payment calculators show. Either I'm missing something, or the dealer is low-balling me. That I haven't seen before on a lease, but who knows? I didn't ask if it included tax, but even with the 6% tax rate in PA, the lease still seems cheap. I'll be arranging the final lease inspection on my Jeep after May 11, and will have to have this figured out by late June. Lots of work ahead. Thanks for the comments.

    Dan
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They may add tax, tags, and freight. Also ask if they charge a processing fee.

    Sounds good, though. If you like it you might want to purchase it at the end of the lease to get out of the payment cycle. I kept my last car for 7 years after just a 3 year loan, so for 4 years my payment was zero!

    Enjoy your new OBS.

    -juice
  • noncanannoncanan Member Posts: 2
    hello,

    got a good price 100k '97 for $5800. i'm not crazy about the hood vent and am wondering if i would have problems reselling the car down the road. i'm in a rush to buy cause i'm wasting funds on car rental. any ideas? want to buy tomorrow.

    Also...My 92 civic hatch (just stolen) was maintenance/problem free....how's the reliability of the 97?

    Thank you
    Canan
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I sold this very car last year in one day, so I would say the hood vent was not a big obstacle for me. I also sold mine in California for more money with more miles, so I would say the deal sounds pretty good.

    As far as problems...I had none at all. This car never needed a repair in 115K miles. There was a recall early on to seal the hood vent because rain would come in through it and drip on the emissions sensors, or something. You could check that it has been done, or I am sure Subaru would still do it for free.

    The timing belt is due at 105K on California cars, by the way. If it is a federal car, the interval is supposed to be 60K.

    This is one solid little car - if my experience is any guide, you should have very few problems (given the usual checks on a used car at 100K, of course).

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I had a '97 as well and put nearly 75,000 miles on it. The only major issue I had was a clutch problem that was repaired under warranty.

    I'm now in my second Impreza, a WRX wagon. You'll get used to the hood vent. :-)

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you're buying with 100k miles and put a bunch more on it, resale won't be much anyway, so don't be too concerned about it. But generally Subies last so they should be easy to resell.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is a pretty bulletproof subie engine. Only one more bullet proof might be the 1.8l

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you think about it, same block, so the smaller sizes are very over-engineered.

    -juice
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    the progression was from smaller to bigger? Surely the small ones would only be overengineered if the bigger ones had come first?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • noncanannoncanan Member Posts: 2
    I so appreciate your help....bought it and it seems to run great!!!!!

    Thanks again,
    Canan
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Congrats Canan!

    Here's my favorite 2.2L Subie. :-)
    http://www.22b.com/

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    nippononly: good point. We have to believe Subaru had more displacement in mind when they engineered the 1.8l. I think even back then they also offered a 2.2l on the same block.

    Congrats Canan.

    -juice
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    judging by my own experience with it, it may be the best car you ever own!

    -Stu

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • linsavylinsavy Member Posts: 13
    Canan, I have alovely scoopless/ventless MY97 L hood . Where do you live. We could trade.
    Bruce
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    a '96 Scoopless/ventless hood in NY area.

    -mike
This discussion has been closed.