Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

ramon · June 2001

So true celeste....so true. It's that first love thingy. Same with one's very first girlfriend/boyfriend type thing.

brekke · June 2001

you paid 18029 including freight with all those options?

piya - congrats!

I'm waiting over 7 weeks for mine, and I am more than a little p'd off. I would have been satisfied if my salesman had made a couple of phone calls - with my VIN, which he said he would do, and to let me know where the car was, approximately, like Van Bortel did for action. I have heard nothing and he won't return my calls. I was told 6-8 weeks so I'm still on schedule but...no recommendation from me.

bluesubie · June 2001

Caroline,
Call 1800Subaru3 and see if they can help you. Also, let them know you're having problems communicating with the dealer.

Dennis

bobbier · June 2001

I've been lurking around these message boards for the past month while trying to decide what car to buy. I considered the Forester, the Impreza TS, Ford Escape, Protege5, and of course the OBS. After reading what everyone had to say and driving the OBS, it was a "no brainer" to go with the OBS. I was all set to buy at my local dealer who has been very helpful during the past month, answering my questions and letting me test drive the cars. He is a a set-price Subaru-only dealer. I checked prices over the internet both with intenet-only dealers and other dealers in my area and found my local one to be reasonable at 3% over invoice. Last Friday evening I was ready to sign the deal with the dealer, but decided to give it one more try and went to another Subaru dealer a little further away. I knew he had a car on his lot that had most of the features I wanted. After a few go arounds with a young salesman running back and forth to his manager, the manager finally came over and asked what it would take for us to seal the deal. I told him, he agreed, and we are now proud owners of a Platinum Silver 2002 OBS at $90 over invoice. I pick it up next Saturday! (So much for hassle-free dealers, and hooray for sales contests that a sales manager wants to win!) I added a moonroof since I've been driving a VW Cabriolet for the past 15 years and I love the feeling of the wind and sun. The only reason I'm getting a new car is because I wanted a 4-door vehicle since I now have 2 grandbabies and it is too difficult getting them in and out of the car seat with only 2 doors! I love the sporty look of the OBS and, after reading all the neat things you all have to say about it, can't wait to get my hands on it and get it out on the twisty mountain roads here in Northern California. I'll post some first impressions next week. I've never participated in message boards before, but reading what all of you have to say has been really informative and helpful in deciding on my new car. Thanks, everyone.

action303 · June 2001

Brekke: Nope, that $18029 price I mentioned in an earlier post was for the specific options that somebody else was talking about. I was comparing the prices a local dealer quotes compared to the price that person was quoted at their local dealer. I paid a bunch more than that, but I still got all the options at invoice (which I think any dealer should be willing to do!). I kept the pre-tax price a bunch below $20000.

Once I have time to take some pix of the new car, I'll post them, and give a more thorough review of my first week's impressions of the new OBS (very favorable).

-Action

brekke · June 2001

Thanks for the advice. I will try my dealer again tonight, and if I don't hear from him I will try the 800#. I don't want to make an "official" complaint until after the 8 week period. (Although I don't see why my car wasn't with action's shipment)

raybear · June 2001

Double check the model year. There was no 1995 Impreza Outback. The Legacy Outback came out in 1996.

But, anyway, it is a nice car and should last you a good long time.

ateixeira · June 2001

I think a used OBS is as good a bet as any. Just ask for maintenance records - it should have a new timing belt and a full 60k service, plus regular oil changes.

ramon: yes, I've been wanting one of those 240hp Forester GT (turbos) for years.

The OBS' EPA dimensions may be close, but it's the square shape that gives the Forester the edge in hauling. The OBS can fit a 27" TV, but the Forester can fit an entire oversized clothes washer (on its side) still in the box, hatch closed. The roof rack also has cross rails and there are rub strips on the roof.

Still, the OBS is close in size and a bargain given all the content (gotta love them 16" alloys). I drove one and found it was more refined than my Forester, had better seats, and generally moved up a notch or two over the previous generation. It's also very attractive.

The only bad thing was weight - it was no quicker than my Forester, really (not slow, I just expected it to be faster). If I had to pick nits, the carpet is still cheap, and the sun visors are cheap, cheap plastic.

But look at the price/content, and you can't beat it for a sporty little AWD wagon.

-juice

tinyivan · June 2001

I have a rather odd question for the group: What kind of image do you think the OBS portrays? For example:

Minivans: seen as kid-transports and are very family oriented,

SUVs: rugged and outdoorsy (although I think more and more they're viewed as modern-day minivans)

sports cars, sedans etc, all have their own images.....

However, the OBS has a unique niche in that it is not really a sports car (except maybe the WRX!), not really an SUV, and not really a station wagon. Just wondering what your views were on this. Thanks!

-TI

ateixeira · June 2001

IMHO an OBS owner is outdoorsy like an SUV owner would be, except that they are much younger and not quite in their peak earning years yet. They are affluent and educated well beyond the norm, they own two dogs (or cats) and their name is Dave, with a few exceptions being Mikes. Females have a "K" in their name.

I'm serious.

-juice

ramon · June 2001

what image. If we care about image, we'd end up with a Honda or a VW. We got Subarus because we know they are reliable and unique. Most ppl give you this weird look when u mention that u drive a Subaru.

leomort · June 2001

What tires w/ new rims did you put on your Forester? I tried scrolling back to find the info but its like searching for needle in the proverbial haystack. Thanks for reposting the info.

Leo

ateixeira · June 2001

Stock size was 205/70R15 Bridgestone Desert Deuelers. They were good in snow, but only ok in the dry and poor in wet braking, and didn't last long. The sidewalls were way too tall for my driving style.

So I did a Plus One, with a little extra width, to 225/60R16. My rims are 16"x7", which is actually wider than the Forester S comes with, so the offset was 15mm further out.

The tires are Nitto NT460, basically an all-season touring tire, H rated, 460AA UTQG rated, and with a higher load rating as well. They are better in every way except for snow, but the AWD is more than enough for our mild winters. Far better dry handling, hugely better wet braking, and quieter to boot, plus longer lasting.

I have no complaints and would do the same thing again.

-juice

action303 · June 2001

Here are my first impressions of my new 2002 Midnight Black Pearl OBS, which has been my vehicle for 6 days now.
First, a bit about the options:
- Automatic
- Rear Spoiler
- Premium Sound Package (sub/amp, premium speakers, tweeters)
- Tailpipe Cover
- Air Filter
- Rubber Floor Mats
- Cargo Net
- Armrest Extension
- Keyless Entry

Price Paid - $19,666 (a little more than $300 over invoice, according to Edmund's)
Dealership - Vanbortel Subaru, Victor, NY (http://www.vanbortelsubaru.com)
Previous car - 1993 Nissan Sentra

General Impressions:
I'm very happy with the car so far. It really is a pleasure to drive. I'll jump straight into some specifics:

Handling - The suspension is a little harder than I'd like. The car doesn't float over bumps in the road ... you'll feel them and hear them. However, the dealer inflated my tires a little high, so that may contribute to this.

Cornering - Yes! This takes corners better than I remember it taking corners when I test drove it. My only reference is my old 93 Nissan, and there's no comparison. Now I can continue through most corners without letting up on the gas or braking, and I'm even comfortable accelerating through some corners. The car gives no indication that it wants to go skidding off the road.

Acceleration - I have been pretty easy on the gas pedal thus far. I can tell that it doesn't have the accelerating power of a real sports car (keep in mind that this is an automatic), and I haven't yet tried Celeste's idea of shifting down into first before taking off from a standstill. I'd say that the normal acceleration curve is fairly average.

Power:
Since I'm still breaking in the car, I'm keeping the RPMs below 4000. I've only had to approach that limit on one occasion when I was passing a car at 70 on a 2-lane country road. It doesn't have the passing power of a good V6, but it felt better than the average 4-banger.

Braking - the brakes are kinda soft, but they're fine. Sometimes there's a small forward surge as I'm braking. For example, let's say I'm slowing down from 45mph to stop at a red light. When I get down to around 35mph while applying constant pressure to the brakes, the car feels like it surges forward (maybe while downshifting?). Either way, it's a strange phenomenon. Should I bring this up with the dealer, or is this not uncommon?

Interior - I find the seats to be very comfortable. The interior material is very rugged and neutral-colored, leading me to believe that it will last a long time. The upper cupholder is entirely useless if you ask me. It might be a place to store an unopened drink on a cool day, but that's about it. The AC works well, and all the controls for heating/cooling are easy and well-placed. There's a nice open space above the CD player that slants downwards, so you can store things in there without the risk of them falling out as you accelerate or go around a corner.
The dashboard displays are clear and easy to read, and very attractive. However, there is no indication of cruise control's status. The "CRUISE" button lights up when you enable cruise control, but there is no indication that it's engaged. That is a real annoyance to me. Even my Sentra had a light for this!

Mileage:
On my first tank of gas, I got 25.6 miles per gallon. That was a 65/35 mix of around-town and highway driving using 87 octane. The AC was used sparingly.

Blind spot:
There had been some discussion here about the OBS's blind spot and visibility. Somebody posted a link to a AAA article about using mirrors correctly to eleiminate the blind spot. I did what was said in the article, and it works great. I removed the headrests from the back seats, and the rear visibility is even better. Backing into parking spaces etc. hasn't been a problem.

Color:
Yup, the black is rad

Features:
Of all the cars standard and optional practical features, my favorites so far are the cargo net, the rear cargo tray, the premium sound package (yeah!), keyless entry, the armrest extender. I suggest those options to everyone!

Conclusion:
That's about all for now. I enjoy the car a lot, and I don't regret my decision to buy it whatsoever. I'd be happy to answer questions, so fire away. As promised earlier, hi-res pictures sometime this weekend!

-Action

ateixeira · June 2001

Air down those tires. They are often delivered with 40psi or so - start at 32-33psi and adjust to yours tastes.

Don't be afraid to mash that brake pedal. It may feel mushy but it's extremely effective.

On the OBS black may indeed be the best color. It sets off the two-tone real nicely. Then again, most of the ones I've seen were black.

I'd be quite happy with 26mpg that early. Mileage tends to improve after break-in. Congrats.

-juice

celeste2 · June 2001

Congratulations on your new Subie!

You mentioned the car doesn't float over bumps, etc. Well, to me it's like a luxury car compared to my 84 Volvo wagon. You felt EVERY ding in the road in that car! This car (2002 OBS) is actually even smoother than my 2000 OBS was.

By the way, if you ever really need the added boost you can go from 1-2-3 gear, but from what I've been told (reprimanded) you don't want to make a regular thing out of it. Anyway, the best gas mileage does come from leaving it in drive.

I really do enjoy the sound system in this car. The tweeters really bring out the high sounds I can't even distinguish on my Bose speakers in the house!!

ateixeira · June 2001

Out of curiosity, what are you folks getting for mileage on average?

-juice

brekke · June 2001

somebody posted some shweet pics of a silver 2002 OBS with the spoiler in Subymamma's "Any 2002 OBS" photo album at yahoo club OBS. Looking at the pics again helped fade my minor "buyer's remorse."

That silver is so nice and I'm happy we get side moulding.

*sigh* these pics will have to do til I get mine...I'm so pathetic. *sigh*

celeste2 · June 2001

I run my A/C full tilt all the time now, and with auto transmission and air intake I get a little over 20 mpg. With my 2000 OBS, manual transmission, no intake, I got a little over 18 mpg with similar summer driving. A little surprising, since this car is heavier and an automatic! However, when I had my manual I just found it impossible to tolerate shifts before 3500 rpm, it just didn't feel right!!

celeste2 · June 2001

The above calculation is in town, stop & go traffic. Haven't had a real chance to calculate highway mileage, yet.

drew_ · June 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

chill105 · June 2001

Well, here's a little update on my car:

I recently brought it in to the dealer to have them install the premium sound system and my rear spoiler. Well, the sound system went in fine, and it really sounds awesome. The base is very clear, and overall the system is much louder. (Much better than stock speakers).

While I was washing my car (before I brought it in) I noticed that the front right tire looked different than the other ones. The silver hubcaps, or whatever you call them, were different than the ones on the other tires. Well, I told the dealer, and they informed me that it was actually a completely different tire. I bought the car new from them, so they were mystified as to how a different tire got on the car. They simply put on a new one for no charge, so it was no big deal, but it was kinda strange.

Well, I got the car back and the wheel was fixed and the sound was in but there was no spoiler. Unfortunately, the dealer had ordered the wrong color. (Silver instead of Midnight Black Pearl). I was very upset, but people make mistakes, and I forgive them.

I'm past the 1000 mile break-in period, so I had a chance to really test it in the poconos this weekend. If you let the rpm's get up there, the car really flies (it feels and sounds so fast). I was letting the rpm's go up to 5 1/2 before shifting. It felt really cool.

I'm still extremely happy with my car and would recommend it to anyone. Feel free to ask any questions.

celeste2 · June 2001

chill: You mean alloy wheels, right? The wheel was different or the TIRE? Why did they remove your spoiler, or was it installed yet??

action303 · June 2001

Here are some pictures I took of my 2002 Outback Sport. I've included some preview pictures here, and links to bigger images.

Image 1:

Big (1600x1200) - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs1-010625-1600.jpg

Medium (1024x768) - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs1-010625-1024.jpg

Smaller - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs1crop-010625.jpg

Image 2:

Big (1600x1200) - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs2-010625-1600.jpg

Medium (1024x768) - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs2-010625-1024.jpg

Smaller - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs2crop-010625.jpg

Image 3:

Big (1600x1200) - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs3-010625-1600.jpg

Medium (1024x768) - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs3-010625-1024.jpg

Smaller - http://www.frontiernet.net/~kjackson/obs/obs3crop-010625.jpg

I'll take more soon. Enjoy!

hypov · June 2001

it's a beauty.
Saw my first '02 OBS on the streets last Sunday. They look better in motion. First I noticed a red blur zipping by then the rear fading away from view. :-)
So how do like the 2.5L zip on it, compared to the say '99 2.2L (which I have)?

ateixeira · June 2001

Looks good in black.

Nice alloys, too.

-juice

celeste2 · June 2001

Action 303: If you want to see what your car would look like with black tint, go back to message numbers 550-553. I posted pics of mine with dark tint and on the black color car it is AWESOME! My car gets looks all the time! The windshield is even tinted to some degree... need that down here in the land of constant sun, but anyway, check out those pics to get an idea of the look with tint.

hypov: I had the 2000 OBS with 2.2, 142 hp, manual before this one (2002 OBS). This one is automatic, so not as fast off the line as manual. However, we put on a Ganzflow air intake and from reasearching, this is said to add 15 hp along with replacing the air filter with an Amsoil or K & N. When I need to move, that car GOES!! If I really need fast acceleration from a stop, I can downshift into 1st and run thru the gears but I don't do this much as I was told is was bad for the auto transmission. But the takeoff is exceptional from 1st gear!!!

celeste2 · June 2001

I would advise you to take off those crossbars on the roofrack and store them somewhere unless you plan to use them all the time. The car looks much sleeker (again see messages 550-553), and it makes the roof so much easier to wash and wax!!!

ramon · June 2001

celeste... come on now. How many times have I told you to lay off those Cuban Cigars.

I think that's with the combo of a 2.25" catback exhaust system to get that 15hp gain. So what r u waiting for?! Go get yourself a catback exhaust!

OK update on my BuRPy... the AGX/Eibachs are going back into the car and so is my UR pulley. Oh yeah... someone's gonna be tearing up some crazy twisties this weekend! Come next week, I will have performance alignment done too!

ateixeira · June 2001

Make sure to get pix of the pulley install?

-juice

ramon · June 2001

what for juicemon?

ateixeira · June 2001

It's just that I've heard a lot about it, but not seen exactly how to do it.

What are they, $180 or so?

-juice

celeste2 · June 2001

So, no 15 hp??? My son was reading online or in a magazine that someone dynoed the gains on the intake at 15, with the air filter, that is. What is supposed to be the real gain? Now with a catback, you're talking something like getting rid of your catalytic converters?

ateixeira · June 2001

The problem with dyno runs is that they pop open the hood and use a huge fan to blow fresh, cool air into the intake.

In real driving, the hood is closed and the engine's temperatures mean the air can get really hot (i.e. less dense). So it's hard to get accurate measures.

I use the hill method. There is a long, steep hill near my house, about 1/8 mile, and I do a slow rolling start to eliminate the clutch factor, then measure top speed at a specific land mark.

An intake may get you 3-5 horses, I'm guessing. Package it with a filter and a cat-back, and 15 horses sounds about right.

-juice

barresa62 · June 2001

Cat back means replacing the section from the last cat back, so no you don't replace the catalysts. HP gains are more in line to what Ramon and Juice said for a simple intake modification. To start getting double digit HP increases you have to incl a different exhaust system and a different air filter. Of course, the ole butt meter will make it seem faster than the actual HP gain. :-)

Stephen

barresa62 · June 2001

Cat back means replacing the section from the last cat back, so no you don't replace the catalysts. HP gains are more in line to what Ramon said for a simple intake modification. To start getting double digit HP increases you have to incl a different exhaust system. Of course, the ole butt meter will make it seem faster than the actual HP gain. :-)

Stephen

ateixeira · June 2001

Yeah, the butt-dyno isn't always 100% accurate. A lot of that has to do with noise - most aftermarket intakes are louder, so they sound quicker too.

-juice

barresa62 · June 2001

Juice: yeah....some of my friends have their ears in their butts, if you get my drift. :-0
Good point though.

Stephen

ramon · June 2001

juicemon, head over to the iclub. in the mods section u should be able to find a detail pulley install. FWIW, if u like using a/c this mod is not for you. At idle, I have no cold air coming out! It gets cold when the car is moving. Anyways i like the rev rev feeling with the lighter pulley. Hmm now that my AGX/eibachs are in, it's time for me to hone up my driving skills again. It's been ages since I scampered around like a buffoon in an autoX course.
And old SCC (2 years old) article did review of n/a mods on a 99 RS. with the catback and intake and AFC it netted 25hp. Not bad. But I'll be happy with 20hp gain. Also with 99 RS, they were running lean with that setup thanks to the MAF based engines. So the AFC was needed to enrich the fuel mixture. But 2000+ EJ25 cars are MAP based which means it runs rich. So no need for AFC. THo it would help to lean out the fuel mixture for gas savings. Bah screw gas! me want power power power!
There's an old saying... it is better to drive a 'slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow'. Agree?

ateixeira · June 2001

Well, if it's hot enough for the A/C, I usually drive the Miata.

I guess the mixed reports have me on the fence.

-juice

PS I have to agree - none of my cars are particularly fast, though they do offer best-in-class handling

ramon · June 2001

the new suspension and pulley. In the power dept. I would say...wheeee!!!! the pulley is best mated to an engine which is modified! it amplifies the power ratings! Don't bother with a stock motor. this weekend, i will time the car for 0-60 sprints. No not with a stop watch. Gonna use a device called G Cube. Not Gtech. But a G cube. pretty funky stuff. It can track down your autoX driving performances and gives a nice telemetry for analysis.
Ok for the handling dept. I have set it at 2f/3r. Marked improvements over the stock suspension. my old setting for my OBS was 2f/4r. will get to that next week. Very nice and firm. I'm a happy camper now.

ateixeira · June 2001

You talking about the settings on the adjustable struts?

-juice

celeste2 · June 2001

My husband bought me a pulley for the 2000 OBS I had but as soon as I read about the effect on the A/C, I had him send it back! It's too darn hot down here not to have your A/C at idle, especially in the city sitting at traffic lights!

celeste2 · June 2001

When I first got this 2002, I was getting 19 mpg in the city, A/C going. Now I have the intake, and have changed to 10w/30 instead of the 5w/30 that came in the car. I'm getting no less than 20 mpg, same driving pattern. Is it the intake or the oil difference?

ateixeira · June 2001

You are using thicker oil now, so it's either the intake or something else, perhaps your driving or the fact that the engine is broken in. An improvement after break-in is actually typical for Subies.

-juice

ak47th · June 2001

im looking for some more power off the line for my 2002 obs. I'm looking for best bang for the buck. I've been tring to research air filters, but im afraid im just to much of a novice. Any recomendations would be helpful. thanks

ateixeira · June 2001

Cheap mods include an Amsoil foam or K&N gauze filter ($60 or so), UR underdrive pulley ($180), or one of many intakes ($120 or so). Exhausts are a step up from there ($400), and then you tend to get real expensive.

-juice

celeste2 · June 2001

If you live in a very hot climate you should know that with the underdrive pulley your A/C will not be cold at idle. Some like it hot, some do not!

celeste2 · June 2001

My husband wrapped my intake tube with insulation and covered that with foil sticky tape. That should keep the air flowing thru the tube alot cooler than it would be under the hood!

ramon · June 2001

easy power are intake and exhaust. then throw in a pulley. The car feels and handles much better than in stock form. Power surges right off the bat. Love the sudden stomp on the gas and instant pick up is there. The pulley does work on modified engines. However I do agree with celeste. If you always use the a/c, DO NOT install the pulley! In my part of the country, hot summer days (>30C or higher) are few and far b/t. Even so, the evenings are cool. So I hardly use a/c... except for the last few days. So my pulley install is a fine for me. Actually once you get the car going for 10 minutes, a/c comes on strong even at idle.
For inake, u cant go wrong with larry gantz' intake. For exhaust, get a catback. No point just the muffler as that only gives sound no real power gains. But I do suggest to get a silencer/resonator along with the catback since the hatch behind the OBS will amplify the drone much more than say a sedan's trunk. it's that cavernous hatch! All the best!

Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

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