Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
BMW 3-Series Sport Wagons
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Cars like the M5 and 911 Turbo are incredible machines with great handling - I guess my point is that they offer their performance in a way that has little relevence to most drivers and that smaller, less powerful, lighter weight cars have more "approachable" performance that is relevent to the sport driving most drivers do.
If you read the tests of cars like the Z06, 911 Turbo, and M5, you see that they were tested on the race track because that was the only way to get close to their limits. So while they are wonderful machines when driven between 80-150 mph on smooth fast roads with no traffic or cops, I don't get to the track very often and I don't think many people do. These are great cars for car journalists, race drivers, and super enthusiasts who don't mind going through $1000 in tires in a weekend. And great cars for the few who are really skilled and are willing to risk their life and license more than I care to.
Finally, I don't have much need for a car that is constantly yawning back at me and saying "Is this best you can do?" To me, driving a 150-hp car is a little like fishing for 5-lb trout with a 2-lb test line - much more fun than winching them in on 20-lb test.
- Mark
In real life driving, short wheel base makes for bumpy ride, and 2400lbs light weight among 3500lbs fleet average makes you a prime candidate for road kill.
1. Auto transmissions are separate options on all the 3-series cars. I think the BMW web site also confirms that the premium pkg and steptronic are separate options.
2. I think you'll find the BMW and VW similar in reliability. Once out of warranty, the BMW will likely be more expensive to repair, simply because it is a more expensive car that caters to a more upscale market. The BMW's longer warranty and free maintenance might offset this, especially if you don't anticipate keeping the car for a long period.
3. You can't get AWD on any US BMW wagon, so if you want an AWD wagon, your choices are the VW, Audi, and Volvos. Mechanically the BMW's AWD option on the sedans is similar in function to the VW system although mfg by a different supplier. The systems on the Audis and VWs are the same as both companies are associated.
It sounds to me like you want AWD, like the VW wagon, and can't tell any functional difference between the VW and BMW. In this case, I'd save some money and get the VW. It is also a larger car than the 325iT, almost as big as the Audi A6.
Finally, don't compare prices by what the salesman "offer" while you are strolling around on the lot. Way, way too many variables to tell if you are getting a deal or not. The proper approach is to test drive a number of cars you are interested in and then go home and use web sites like edmunds.com (or the mfgs) to price out exactly the car you want - from this, target one or two cars you are interested in and get all the data on MSRP and dealer cost. Then do your haggling over price, which BTW, can be done via fax, phone, or email without every having to step foot on a lot.
I purchased my 325iT at a good discount without ever stepping foot on the lot.
Good luck,
- Mark
1. I liked its handling better (I drove the 323, not the AWD). The Passat had a touch more body roll through hard corners and didn't seem quite as crisp.
2. I read a lot on both bimmer and VW enthusiast web sites. It seemed (through anecdotal evidence only) that bimmer complaints were limited mainly to minor squeaks, etc., but that the Passat had left people stranded. So it appeared that while overall reliability is comparable, I was worried that if something went wrong with the Passat, it was more likely to be catastrophic.
3. Finally, I think I just loved the BMW wagon more on an aesthetic/gut level.
The bimmer wagon is smaller than the Passat though, and more expensive as well. I think you'd be happy with either car. You could consider cargo/price versus handling/luxury/upscale name.
More than 3,000 troublefree and glorious miles!
Gena
I have now ordered a 325iT. The VW does offer many goodies for the price, if I equipped the BMW similarly it would have topped $42k (MSRP). I had to give up the AWD and auto with tiptronic(steptronic) to keep the price down on the 325iT. I wouldn't put an auto in a BMW anyway, especially one with only 184 hp. This was not an easy decision, giving up all the luxury features in the VW all for $31k was painful.
The BMW AWD system is supposed to always have a higher % of power to the rear wheels than to the front. This is supposed to maintain the sporty handling characteristics that BMW is famous for. The VW will proportion more 60% power to the front if that's where the best grip is.
BTW Does someone know a dealer in this region that wants to accept about $1500 over invoice?
Thanks.
If you do go AWD, you might want to consider the stick. If you burden the 2.5L with both AWD and step, it will become a bit lethargic. In fact, with a step and AWD, I'd probably vote that the Passat is a better car for this mission.
Don't know about your local market, but I got about $1500 over invoice on my deal. If you fax around your request, I'd bet someone will take you up on it.
Good luck,
- Mark
I've been driving to work for 13 winters in Iowa and Wisconsin with 2WD and never missed a day of work because of weather. I don't think you need to lug around $1700 of dead weight 360 days a year just for the occasional snow that the plows can't take care of.
On the other hand, if snow in NC is worse than I think, save $1200 and buy a set of snow tires and rims from Tire Rack. Not only will you be able to go like a bat out of hell, but your car will handle and stop (read, avoid accidents and ditches) much better than with AWD. Also, if you happen to hit a curb on a slippery curve, you'll trash a $50 steel rim instead of a $200 polished aluminum rim.
We bought a set of Blizzaks (sp?) for our Volvo V70 wagon last year and are very happy with the performance.
Just my $.02 worth.
-Murray
If I do have to be out that day, I'd rather have some steel wheels, good snow tires on all four wheels, and a set of chains in the trunk rather than AWD. Then you have a good chance of stopping as well as you are going.
AWD is a little like an insurance policy for something you probably won't encounter. If it makes you sleep better, and you don't mind the significant handling, expense, acceleration, and service tradeoffs, go for it. It is a little like an extended service policy - it doesn't make economic sense, but if it gives you more peace of mind and the expense isn't significant to you, why not?
- Mark
Steve
George
Also, does anyone know if the 6 disc DC changer is the same for a new 325ix as for a '98 528ia? I am selling the 528 and know that I won't get much more for the car with the CDX in... If no, are there comparable or better aftermarket changers available that work with this car? $200 for the 1 CD in dash and $600 for the changer doesn't seem like a great deal.
Any suggestions for other cars that I should look at before committing to the 325? I want AWD and manual shift. The Subarus seem a bit tinny. I looked at the A4 but need to special order and wait 4 months to get manual and the dealer said that they were going to stop making the A4 Avant in the summer. I don't really want the last off the production line. Loved my Volvo wagon but the XC doesn't come in manual. Thoughts?
The CD player will not work in the 325. My wife had a 98 528 with 6 changer. I wish I would have
bought a manual would have added to the already
fun car to drive. I test drove them all and the only car that I would have bought would have been
the BMW X5 with the sport package which is the best of all worlds.
LARS
I haven't had to climb any icy mountain roads and in Vermont ALL the roads going to ski areas are the cleanest in the state(we need the money).
My wife bought a 330ci convertible and we orders
winter tires for it and I might next year.
These cars are remarkable you just can't get them to spin out they just take over a straighten things out and return control back to you.
Lars
After owning a Volvo with auto climate control, I now consider it almost a must have option. It's so nice to get in the car, have it warm up quickly, but not too warm, without fiddling with the heat control two or three times. Unfortunately, my wife drives the Volvo most of the time.
To those 3 series owners with or without auto climate control, does the heat system work well? Is it worth having auto climate control or does the manual control work better than most? I don't really need a moon roof or motorized seats, although I would like cruise control and the trip computer.
On the other hand, what's a couple more thousand for a dream machine?
-Murray
-Murray
Leane
Good luck, Randy
P.S. I am in San Diego, which dealer have you been working with?
I live on the east coast and just purchased the 325it. I visited 3 dealers and two were 1500 under MSRP, while the third was 1500 over dealer invoice. Based on some of the earlier posts I felt the 1500 over invoice was as good as it was going to get, so I bought it.
Good luck,
Patrick
PS.. Randy, if you are looking at the 525it, you may want to consider the X5. My salesman said that it was less expensive and felt it offered more features.
www.caranddriver.com
and do a search for "winter-traction test"
Basically, in the situations where you are on snow or ice and can get into real trouble (shoot, I can't stear, I can't stop in time...) you're better off spending LESS money on high-end winter tires than an AWD system. That reflects my experience to date - I live in Brockville, Ontario, Canada and drive between here and Ottawa, Montreal or North Bay and I am really amazed at how much better my Michelin Arctic Alpins handle than my previous all-seasons. From what I've seen/heard of AWD drivers, that's confirmed.
Even from a dead-stop they offer superior traction, and at speed it's very much like driving in the warmer months (what Canadians call "summer" ;-)
Think of it this way: AWD helps you GO, winter tires help you GO, STOP, MANUEVER and basically stay out of trouble. Winter tires and rims cost about $500 while AWD costs about $1700.
It amazes me that anyone would buy AWD for snow and NOT buy winter tires.
-Murray
L
i test drove a 325xi with the steptronic earlier this year and while i was generally impressed with the car as a whole, I felt the engine + powertrain combination was starved for power. By the time those 184 horses get through the slushbox and the 64-36 power distribution, there's just not enough serious *go* left!
so i'm curious: are there any plans to bring the 325's wagon+awd+steptronic configuration to the 330 platform for 2002?
I recently ordered a 2000 325xiT with an automatic transmission (I was in a pretty horrible motorcycle accident a year ago and can no longer drive a manual). I am now a handicapped driver and can't test drive cars because I need to mount specialized hand controls. However, I went ahead and ordered my 325xiT -- given my research and experience, it seems like the right car for me.
My question is: can 325xiT owners please tell me if the BMW's 184 horsepower is adequate to pull the extra weight of the wagon and the all-wheel drive machinery given the power-sapping nature of the automatic transmission? By "adequate" I mean: is the car comfortable merging in heavy traffic, passing on the highway, etc.
Thanks very much in advance, and I'd love to hear from any other handicapped BMW drivers out there in Edmunds-land.
Jim W
Also...has anybody run into any kind of serious limitations secondary to the small trunk on the wagon?
How about leather v. leatherette? Too hot in the summer? The one we tried with leatheretter didn't seem too bad yesterday in the hot sun. Thanks!
Edmunds calculates the TV of this car at just about $200-$400 off MRSP. How accurate are they?
Rand
Randy
I would consider going with him if not for the fact that I'm on a tight schedule with specific desires on the car. I need the car by late June at latest, and there just aren't any manual sport wagons with the sport package in existence in the entire country!
Steve said that he could also arrainge an order for about $1000 above invoice, depending on packages ordered...but once again...we're closing out changes to the week 22 production and that's the latest production I can tolerate. Well..guess I'm stuck.
The best deal I could get in the Chicago area for the 3 wagon was $800 off MSRP..which is about a 7.5% markup from invoice. It's not great but tolerable...especially after overhearing so many other customers in the dealerships signing for MSRP.
Thanks for your comments. ;-)
Pocahontas
Host
Hatchbacks/Station Wagons Boards
"..a setup that foregoes comfort in it's quest for unmatched performance. If you're looking for a great day-to-day driver that provides a little fun on the weekends, look elsewhere; this isn't the car for you."
I did look elsewhere, and found a great day-to-day driver that's ALOT of fun EVERYDAY!
Sorry to be so long-winded, but you asked...
Pocahontas
Host
Hatchbacks/Station Wagons Message Boards
Stephen
4079 miles in my 02'WRX wagon (master) :-)
"Although I'd question Subaru's assertion that it's competitive with a 3-series BMW, it surely tries."
"..it's a hassle in traffic...the WRX is too intense for a commuter"
"(the suspension) makes for a stiff ride on backroads and a hard ride on the highway.."
"A factory rally car, for drivers on a budget"
Hey, maybe you answered because you liked my comment about Richard Burns--he's Irish, right?
Hell of a driver. I actually like to watch WRC races on Speedvision and root for Richard. I just don't need a car to drive in my neighborhood like him, especially at your "break-neck" speed. Too many small kids and grandmas in the way, you know...
I'm first and foremost an auto enthusiast hence buying the WRX made by "Subaru". I want a lot of performance for my $. I like reading about a lot of cars, test driving, etc. I used to sell cars as well. I was actually curious as to how this topic would respond after reading Edmunds' review of the 325ix wagon.
Regarding your reviewer quotes:
"..it's a hassle in traffic...the WRX is too intense for a commuter"
Absolutely false! One of the great attractions of the WRX for me and other owners is it's dual personality. It's a docile commuter that can be easily turned into a lion above 3000 rpms. The AWD also adds a extra measure of safety and confidence, especially in traffic.
"(the suspension) makes for a stiff ride on backroads and a hard ride on the highway.."
Again, don't know what the reviewer was smokin' or what cars he is used to but the ride on the WRX is solid (read "firm) but well-damped and has excellent recovery over bad roadways.
Instead of quoting a reviewer, you should risk a little revelation and visit the Subaru Crew or the i-club. You would read what potential buyers and actual owners are experiencing both about the car and the buying experience. Heck, you could do this w/o revealing anything to your BMW brethren. :-)
BTW, regarding your first comment, it sounds a little like the awful Bimmer arrogance rearing its kidney-shaped head. I hope not. You've made a good choice in automobiles just different from mine.
Take care,
Stephen
You seem like a nice guy and since I'm an "auto-enthusiast" too, I'll consider us friends who are having a little fun bragging about their respective cars. And my head does resemble my
BMW--it's smooth and shiny! Now what about that Richard Burns--is he Irish, or is that Colin McRae?
I'm actually seeing this a lot w/the others posting "mine's better than yours" regarding the WRX. I guess, I too need to get a bit thicker skin. Maybe I can learn a thing or two from the Bimmer gang (?) :-)
Thanks for the compliment. Now, about the rally drivers, I'm not sure about Richard Burns but pretty sure that Colin McRae is Irish (or Scottish). Oh man, I'm beginning to feel like the "ugly American" who doesn't know his geography or nationalities. BTW, I'm only of Irish heritage. The flag by my name is a result of my wanting to show this heritage. I just changed the city & country over in my profile to Dublin, Ireland.
Take care. I'll try and visit here to see if you're posting.
( like the smooth head description, LOL)
Stephen