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BMW 3-Series Sport Wagons

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Comments

  • zigster38zigster38 Member Posts: 117
    Yep, I'm curious too...anyone pricing these wagons in norcal? What's the going rate?

    thnx

    zig
  • hicairahicaira Member Posts: 276
    Best carsdirect.com could do was $500 under MSRP in So Cal.

    HiC
  • kortegakortega Member Posts: 7
    Has anyone gotten a good deal on the 323 sport wagon? I live in the Bay Area and carorder.com quoted me $34,438 for the wagon with automatic, leather, sunroof, power seats, in-dash CD and metallic paint. That's only about $100 under MSRP! Yikes!!!! Tell me what you savvy shoppers are getting for your 323iT. Thanks!
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    There are just not enough 3ers out there floating around without buyers to create real price flexibility at this point in history...that's just a fact. Few dealers have big inventories of unsold cars, especially 323s and most especially wagons. The only one available at my local dealer is ludicrously loaded with options and has an MSRP of $38k+...he'd no doubt be willing to generously knock off $700 or so, and you'd still be left with too much money.

    Some dealers have a temporary glut of 328s, especially now that all of the buzz is on the 330s, but that is the only car I know about in the 3er line that is standing for any serious discounting right now. Can you do better than $100 off? Yeah, almost certainly...the online buying services are now having to exist in the real world since the stock market fell out of bed, so the giveaway deals are a thing of the past...I haven't had a price quote from them in weeks [I check regularly on about a dozen benchmark cars of different makes] that couldn't be beaten by any urban dealer in a heartbeat. But don't look for much more than 2-4% from MSRP, and in the case of a wagon, not that much. Supply and demand...
  • richardtbrichardtb Member Posts: 11
    I do not know about the west coast, but in the
    midwest and east coast 323iTs are not selling well
    and the standard price is $1500 over invoice.
    You do not have to buy them loaded, if you can
    wait, special order one as I did. If you check bimmer.org,
    there is a dealer there - in Virgina, right out
    of D.C. - who advertises his wagons for $1500
    over invoice. This may be a bit of a treck for
    you people in the west coast. However, when I
    had checked prices for the wagon (here in the
    midwest) on carorder and cardirect (a month or two
    ago), I also got the same high prices as the one
    you are quoting, which led me to believe that it
    was not such a good idea to use these sites.

    One last point, if you can wait, you may want
    to wait until sept and buy the 325iT (with an
    increase in hp from 170 to 190).

    I hope this helps.
  • rygracerygrace Member Posts: 1
    I recently priced a 323iT wagon in Jacksonville Florida. The dealer was willing to take $600.00 off MSRP. That was his absolute best offer.

    The problem as stated previously, is supply and demand. The dealer in Jax did not have any 323iT in stock and all he had on order, through August, had already been sold.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    The last few posts illustrate perfectly why the old saying about politics is also true of pricing: "Everything is local..."

    The economy is still red-hot in Calif, notwithstanding the stock market's recent traction problems, and all "lux" makes are moving pretty briskly. Certainly no one is advertising discounts of any real $ on 3ers, much less prices like $1500 over invoice. Sounds like a trip to DC and a Smithsonian visit might be in order...
  • goldnbrgoldnbr Member Posts: 8
    Yes, a bike will fit in the back of the 323i wagon with the right rear seat in the up position. It's a tight fit between the hatch and that rear seat, but it does fit. This was with the
    front wheel of the bike taken off of course. With both seats down there is absolutely no problem.
  • kortegakortega Member Posts: 7
    I just placed my order for a Titanium Silver 323iT with automatic, leather, moonroof, power front seats and in-dash CD at Weatherford BMW in the Bay Area. The dealer stated that for a refundable $1000 deposit, I could place my order, wait for the car to arrive and then negotiate the price when it was delivered to the dealership. If for any reason I didn't want the car, the deposit would be returned to me. Is that how BMW dealerships operate? I've never ordered a car before. I've always just bought the car off the lot. There seems to be a strategic disadvantage to the buyer with this method. From reading the other posts, I looks like I'll be pay close to sticker prices for this baby. I would like the 190 hp engine but I'll need a car within the next month. Besides, I jump in hp will probably mean a jump in price. I'm hoping to get $1000 off MSRP or am I just dreaming?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Right now, you're probably dreaming to get $1k off this car in the Bay Area. HOWEVER, by the time the car actually gets here, the market may very well support that kind of price. What Weatherford is counting on of course is that you won't walk after waiting weeks for your car, and that they will get by with a token discount. I probably would have insisted on a firm price before ordering...in the past, their internet guy was pretty straightforward and was offering competitive prices...maybe that's changed with the current supply/demand situation.

    If you get stiff-armed by these guys, try East Bay [Pleasanton] - they have a big internet presence and have satisfied a lot of people...good buzz...
  • richardtbrichardtb Member Posts: 11
    1. I think you would be out of your mind to put
    any deposit without an agreed-upon price.
    2. The consensus on bimmer.org is that the change
    in performance with the bmw 325 is not going to be that drastic. Also, several people in that site
    that live in the bay area are purchasing their
    car in Santa Barbara from John Shafer (I think
    at Cutter Motors).
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Well I drove a 323iT, sport package, 5sp. (altho I would buy an auto.) at a dealer in the Boston area. What a great car! I've also driven the 528iT, very beautiful, just not as "fun to drive" IMHO (this from an M6 owner). Does anyone have any recommendations for BMW dealers in N.E.? Or on pricing? This dealer didn't seem to want to budge more than $800 off of sticker even though they had at least six 323iT's in stock. Or advice re: a good dealer to buy one from for a fair amount over invoice anywhere on East Coast or Mid-West? And....is there any way to predict what sort of dealer incentives might be offered in 2 or 3 months, if any? Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer!
  • popthathoodpopthathood Member Posts: 4
    I just used the 323 wagon today for what it really was designed for - utility - helping move someone's apartment. What a difference it makes from trying to use a normal sedan for such purposes.
    With the seats down and the cargo-net bar detached (this bit is better left at home before you go off to ferry stuff because it can get in the way) it swallows a decent load of katunda, and we only made one trip. The furniture obviously goes later ... this was just all the boxes, suitcases, clothes, books, bedding, lamps etc etc.

    Anyway, I feel the extra utitlity of the wagon makes it that much easier to justify the extravagance of getting a BMW. And a chance to take the car out makes the tedium of such normally mundane tasks that much easier to bear.

    Still have yet to see another one in Manhattan. Only one I have seen besides mine was on the Pallisade Parkway about 2 months ago.

    1,056 miles and very happy .....
  • a6wagona6wagon Member Posts: 19
    my sister lives in Germany near Heidelberg on a military base. When she returns to the states, she too is bringing back a 325 wagon. Can you confirm the boost from 170hp to 190hp in the 325? I know they are rebadging from 323 to 325 but the dealer here told me that there would be no engine change. Also, can you provide details about the 325XI? Thanks.

    Also, for those of you concerned about price - some folks have gotten the wagons for 3% over invoice - in Atlanta, GA. I spoke with a guy here in Chicago and he was willing to know $1700 off of a $36K wagon. They aren't moving fast in Chicago . . . .
  • richardtbrichardtb Member Posts: 11
    I picked up my 323iT yesterday, in case anyone
    is interested here are a few observations. First,
    even though it is a relatively large and heavy
    car it drives as if it was a small car. It reminds
    me of driving my old Mitsubishi Mirage in terms of
    how nimble it feels. Second, the car is impressive in terms of how quiet it is. Third, the most impressive thing was how much the (non-xenon) lights illuminated the road. I just did not expect that there could be such a big difference with headlights. Fourth, there are countless number of clever simple things in the
    design, such as a key that recharges itself in the ignition.

    Here are a couple of things that some may find as
    a drawback. The inline 6 gives you a very smooth
    acceleration so you won't realy feel that power surge that will make you feel like you are driving a sportscar. Also, the rpm is quite high
    when you get to highway speed.
  • zigster38zigster38 Member Posts: 117
    190 hp...but very similar 0-60 numbers...

    http://e46fanatics.com/faq/#intro
  • kortegakortega Member Posts: 7
    Just out of curiosity, what did you pay for your 323iT and what options are on the car? I live in the Bay Area and I'm still waiting for my 323iT to come in. I spoke to one gal on the phone at East Bay BMW who was very rude and abusive trying to sell me the only 323iT in the showroom. It was not the car I wanted but even if it was, I certainly would not buy it from her. It didn't sound like she would go far from MSRP to sell it either.

    I hope you're enjoying your new car!

    Thanks for your comments.
  • richardtbrichardtb Member Posts: 11
    $29,500 (only options: multi purpose steering wheel, fog lights)

    +

    $700 cd changer

    I ordered the car right after it came out, and
    the car has not done all that well, so I would
    think that if I were to buy it now, I should be
    able to get a better price.

    I am very happy with my salesperson (price and
    service). If you give me your email address,
    I will give you his name and phone number. Getting
    the car in the midwest will be pretty far for you,
    but for an extra $200 he can arrange for you to
    pick it up at you dealer of your choice (I asked
    him this question for someone else I know).

    So, if I were you, I would try to get the car for
    the same price as the one I got (the extra $200
    offsetting the fact that the car is not as popular as it once was). If you want more options
    that then ones I got, add them to the price at
    invoice. Note, here I am talking about pricing
    of a car that you would special order, which means
    that you have to be willing to wait. Also, I
    don't know if they still have cars that you buy
    before the change to the 325.

    I would be curious to know why you are more interested in this car than the other wagons (avant, passat, volvo v40, saab 9-5). I found
    it to be a very tough choice!
  • richardtbrichardtb Member Posts: 11
    In the options, I fergot to mention metallic
    paint and floor mats. (It is hard to believe
    that they would do not come standard...)
  • kortegakortega Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for your advice on the 323. Like you, it was agonizing trying to choose a wagon. I'm looking to replace my 97 Passat wagon which was recently repurchased by VW of America. My car had several major and minor problems that would lead me to never buy another VW or Audi again. Reliability is a major priority in my next wagon. CR recently trashed Volvos in terms of reliability. Also from reading Volvo posts on this website and knowing that the cost of maintaining a Volvo can be astronomical, I considered a V70 or a V40 but decided against them. The Saab 9-5 looks great but again, Saabs are not famous for their reliability. I've looked at the Saturn L-series wagon but I don't particularly like the smell and feel of plastic. (Sorry, call me a snob if you want.) I really like the Subaru Outback and Forester but they both lack the power and speed I'm used to in my Passat. I don't want an SUV since my husband recently bought a V8 Dodge Dakota truck. I don't want to contribute to the urban dwellers disease of owning an off-road vehicle to drive to and from Safeway. My last choice was the BMW wagon. I actually didn't like the 323iT at first glance. I thought the trunk is too small, the price is too high and the seat adjustment levers are too big and ugly. After considering all my other options, I decided on the 323 by default. If I need to haul a lot of stuff, my husband has the truck. I ordered a few basic luxuries to keep the price down. The power seats have small, inconspicuous buttons. I've already waited 3 weeks for my car. I don't think the Bay Area is getting very many of the 3-series wagons because many of the dealers have one or no wagons at all. The dealer at Weatherford BMW is positive that we can come to a fair deal once the car arrives. I'll keep my fingers crossed. My email address is RKOrtega@msn.com. I may try your dealer to see if I can negotiate something better. BTW, what made you chose the 3-series wagon and how do you like it? Thanks for your response.
  • genakhoogenakhoo Member Posts: 4
    I just saw your recent posts and thought I would respond.

    I just recently purchased a 323iT and absolutely love it. My husband and I race for our keys to see who will drive when going on errands. The bimmer's replacing a Miata which became impractical since we have a one-year-old. For us, it's the perfect blend of fun-to-drive, reasonable functionality, and budget considerations. Heck, if we had all the money in the world, we would consider the BMW 540 wagon or the M-B equivalent.

    I also own a Subaru Outback which, while it has been a completely reliable and competent car, is completely outshone by the bimmer. Well, to be fair, the bimmer was much more expensive.

    The 323iT handles beautifully and carves every curve with complete aplomb. It has plenty of power (for me anyway. Remember I'm used to the Subaru). The interior touches are lovely. Yes, you do have to pay for metallic paint, but you generally do at the luxury end of the market (M-B charges extra also). It doesn't have the cargo capacity of the Subaru, but it handles groceries, stroller, shopping etc. just fine.

    If you'd like to know anymore about this car, just let me know. I could brag on it for hours! Oh, we also considered the Passat (didn't handle as well), Volvo (Consumer Reports said unreliable), and Audi A4 (back seat is smaller).
  • kortegakortega Member Posts: 7
    It's great to hear that you're enjoying your 323iT! I'm still waiting for mine to come in so any feedback on performance, reliability and price is appreciated. I considered all the cars you did and finally came to decide on the bimmer. If you have the time, I'd love to hear what you have to say on your new purchase. My concerns with the car are mainly space in the trunk, performance (my Passat was a 5 speed and I ordered an automatic) and reliability (my Passat had numerous breakdowns and problems). Thanks for any info you have.
  • gtorresgtorres Member Posts: 1
    Last weekend my wife and I went shopping,armed with internet discounts. We left Pacific BMW in Glendale,CA with a silver 323 wagon,with sport and premium package,for $1500 below msrp (they made some of it back on my trade-in). We love this car-oops,sport wagon ! Still on the honeymoon;no complaints or problems yet.
  • a6wagona6wagon Member Posts: 19
    If you live in a warm weather climate, the DSC and traction control will suit you best. the price for the AWD drive looks like it will be $1750. I got this information off of bimmer.org. they have a FAQ for the 330 AWD and lists the cost there. I have owned two AWD vehicles, both Audis. Current car is 2000 A6 Avant. I too am going to order the 325. Increased HP, and the same AWD system as the X5. I thought I wanted an X5, but we rarely go off road, and I like to be able to wheel and deal versus clunking. the X5 is the ultimate SAV, but it is still not a car.

    I would go for the 323 because most dealers(depending on market) have several because they aren't hot sellers right now. When you add the AWD of the X5, then all the ski bunnies will want to hop on the band wagon, potentially making demand high and supply small. If you order early you should be okay.

    Since you live north of NYC, I would definitely wait for the AWD. It is awesome. Go test drive an X5, then imagine a vehicle with a better horsepower to weight ratio , better turning radius and you've got the 325. that is why I have delayed my order.
  • kortegakortega Member Posts: 7
    What is it with these BMW salespeople? I'm trying to price a 323iT but they are only willing to go $500-750 below MSRP. One gal informed me that they normally sell at $2000 above MSRP. I thought she meant above invoice but she corrected me and said above MSRP. I'm in the Bay Area and I know that prices are alittle inflated right now but I keep reading that the 3-series wagon is not very popular so pricing should be in my favor. My goal is to find someone who's willing to sell one for $1500 below MSRP. So far, no luck. Even the popular internet dealers are non-responsive. Am I looking in the wrong places? HELP!!!
  • desidudedesidude Member Posts: 2
    Does anyone knows, when would one be available? Pricing etc.

    Thanks
  • joyce15joyce15 Member Posts: 2
    We just put down a deposit for the AWD 325 Sportswagon. We were told that we will not get the car until October or later.
  • a6wagona6wagon Member Posts: 19
    Did they have pricing available when you put down your deposit? am interested to know the price difference from '00 to 01. I know the AWD is $1750, but curious if there was any increase in the base price. Thanks.
  • joyce15joyce15 Member Posts: 2
    Exact pricing not available yet.
  • desidudedesidude Member Posts: 2
    Joyce15,

    What state did you make this deposit in. Do you have the specs.
  • mvollmermvollmer Member Posts: 2
    Picked up my 323iT 2 weeks ago. Almost bought a subaru GT limited, then test drove the 323iT.. -No comparison.
    Is anyone experiencing a click sound in the seat belt height adjustment on the drivers side?


    Also... I need a car detailing tip... I messed up and got some Polish on the black rubber molding. How do I get it off????

    Thanks for any help?
  • hicairahicaira Member Posts: 276
    What kind of polish are we talking of here? Shoe polish? Polish sausage? If it is shoe polish, and it is also black, how do you know it is really there? Just assuming?

    Either way, I would try a thinning liquid. If you mess up, shoe polish ought to fix it. If Polish sausage, a dog will lick it off.

    Whatever you do, don't use the belt sander. Take a lot of shoe polish to cover that up.

    HiC
  • chilidchilid Member Posts: 3
    As a sports car kind of guy, it was a very stupid move on my part to trade in my 93 G20 for a Chrysler T&C minivan. 3 years later and I ask myself what was wrong with the G20? The van is great on family trips and for hauling, but 75% of the time, I am the only one in it. I am tired of people cutting in front of me all the time.

    I test drove the bmw 3 series last weekend. I know that lots of time has passed since the earlier posts in this topic, but the 2 dealers in Mpls have plenty of 3's, the one I didn't visit even has 4 sport wagons. The dealer I did visit has an unsold one coming in this week. I haven't talked price but you'd think they would be flexible.

    I really need more room than the sedan but I am gun shy about making another dumb move like the van. But everything I have heard and read about the sport wagon is as good as the sedan reviews, which are pretty fantastic.

    I did drive the 323 5speed, the 328 auto and even a 330 coupe auto. I am all for more power but I just can't justify the price difference between the 323 and the 328 for a measly 20 horse or so. Pushing against $40K makes me look at a bigger car, which is really what I need. Its hard to believe that BMWs can price the way they do yet still be in such high demand. But once you drive, ya gotta have one I guess.

    Not a great comparison given the different transmissions, but the 323 5 speed seemed very tolerable to me. I know the wagon will be a little heavier but if I wait for the 325 with more ponies and stay with the 5 speed (if you can drive a stick, paying extra for the auto seems criminal to me in such a car), I think I could live with the wagon.

    Anyway, I am interested in hearing from anyone that has compared the wagon with sport package to wagon with out. Swapping out the tires and wheels for snows is not very appealing to me, but I really want to get the right suspension. I know that the sport package has very strong backers in the coupe and sedan worlds, if you have one or the other on the wagon, let me know if you are happy with the decision you made.
  • margiewmargiew Member Posts: 1
    Can anyone rcommend a BMW dealer in the NY/NJ/CT area who is willing to install an airbag on-off switch? I'm buying a BMW Z3 and my dealer, Endurance Motor Cars in Mt. Kisco NY, says they won't do it. With 3 young kids in the family if I can't get the switch installed it will seriously impact my use of the car around town on weekends. Well, at least it will cut down on arguing who gets to drive with mom! Hope someone can help me out.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • mvollmermvollmer Member Posts: 2
    Car Polish.....

    Maguires (sp?) step 2 car polish.

    Can't get if off the rubber!
  • pgb4pgb4 Member Posts: 1
    I am considering a BMW 325 wagon. Perhaps some one out there has a similar family situation. I have three children (11, 7, 3), and just bought a 2000 Suburban, which has all the room in the world, but no fun to drive. Our other car is a Volvo S70 GLT sedan; fun to drive, but without the needed luggage space. So, is the 3 series going to be too small also? I really do not want to go back to a van or a small SUV (no fun). Can anyone help me out on this one?

    P.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    P: No way you're going to fit all three kids in the back seat of the 325, if that is your intention. And the 325 doesn't have that much space behind the rear seat. I doubt it's much bigger than your Volvo, though it will clearly hold outsized items that your Volvo won't.

    Jared
  • genakhoogenakhoo Member Posts: 4
    P,

    I agree with Jared that the 325 wagon will be too small for you. I have the 323, and while I absolutely love it, it doesn't have the rear seat room or cargo capacity of my Subaru Outback. With three kids, you may have to be resigned to a no-fun-to-drive SUV or minivan. Have you thought of having a large family vehicle (for the kids, trips, etc.) and a fun-to-drive second car? If you want to use the Bimmer as a commuter car that is only occasionally used for shuttling kids, that would work. The MB M-Class has an optional third seat, but it has very little cargo room with that third seat. Ditto Volvo and Audi.
  • edu328edu328 Member Posts: 9
    In my opinion the wagon body style is the best. It is sportier than the sedan, it is more pratical than the coupe and ..... What a beauty!!!
    What do you guys think?
  • bgkannebgkanne Member Posts: 25
    Very fun to drive, but extremely limited capacity as a wagon. I have seen very few of these, considering I live in probably BMW's strongest market. If it had more room, it would sell. Audi A4 wagon has similar space problem.
  • genakhoogenakhoo Member Posts: 4
    Although I admit I'm biased (since I own a 323 wagon), I think the body styling is absolutely gorgeous. It still takes my breath away every time I see it in the parking lot or my garage.

    In terms of 323 or 325, I think that 323 has plenty of zip. I drove our old Subaru Outback (165 hp) today after weeks of driving only the bimmer. I nearly got run over merging on the highway because the I had grown used to the BMW's acceleration (although horsepower numbers are similar). I'll bet that you can get a good deal on one of those remaining 323's, so that may be a factor too.

    The cargo area is small for a wagon. However, the rear seat room is sufficient (bigger than the 3-series sedan and the Audi A4). Cargo room is fine for the everyday stuff that I carry: stroller, groceries, Tonka dump trucks. I wouldn't use it to haul lumber though!

    Gena
  • MorganConradMorganConrad Member Posts: 21
    As an A4 Avant owner, one big difference I noted is that the 323T has more rear seat leg-room, but much less cargo space in the back. Since I have a dog and no kids, the Avant works best for me. But the 323t is nice too.
  • zigster38zigster38 Member Posts: 117
    topic add your opinion, thanks!

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?c=Station_Wagons&f=0&t=489
  • sfawdwagon1sfawdwagon1 Member Posts: 1
    - Looking for a good dealer or online website to purchase a 325 AWD Wagon. Know of any where I can a discount from MSRP?

    - Since the 325 AWD Wagon is a new model, are my hopes of getting a discount from MSRP slim?

    - I also have a dog. Is getting the leatherette the better option over leather?

    - How much slower will the AWD be over the 2WD wagon?
  • chilidchilid Member Posts: 3
    I've heard its very tough to get a deal in your area. Try Cutter in Santa Barbara if you don't mind the drive. 1500 over invoice is possible.
  • MorganConradMorganConrad Member Posts: 21
    I have a dog, and leather seats, they work fine, though leatherette should be o.k. too. Check the rear cargo area of the 325 though - it's pretty tight if your dog is big. (I've got an A4 Avant, which has more rear cargo room for dogs but less rear leg room for people)
  • brechbielbrechbiel Member Posts: 13
    After nearly 6 months and 9K miles, this is a follow-up to my previous postings #32, 38, 45, 47:
    - The right side rear view mirror doesn't tilt down every time (yes, mirror switch is in correct position). Other than this, there are no defects. I will have this fixed at 1st scheduled oil change.
    - Braking, steering, road holding, transmission, cruise control are all fabulous. Engine power good, but occasionally I would like more.
    - Seats "breaking in" now and fairly comfortable even on 6 hour trips. Note that sports seats are difficult for some elderly folks to slide over while getting in/out of car.
    - Sports steering wheel is needlessly hard and uncomfortable to grip. I am planning to install a padded cover. Steering response is positive, but could use a little more assist, IMO.
    - Rear hatch doors (door and glass panel) have to be closed VERY firmly, else in-dash warning light will be on though the door seems to be closed ok.
    - Not enough driver legroom on right side! Gas pedal is almost directly under steering column, so body position is actually twisted a bit to left. This is my major complaint with an otherwise fine car. Can't adjust driver's seat so right and left feet are equally supported with knees at same angle.
    - Excellent fuel economy. Average 22mpg around town, 29 highway, with moderate sporty driving.
    - Audio system better than I thought, especially since speakers have broken in. I don't plan to upgrade anymore.
    - Would like more cargo capacity every now and then, but overall there is plenty of room. Typically only 1-2 adults including driver, but occasionally 1-2 adult passengers. I have to remove cargo cover from behind rear seat when carrying taller items. Rubber straps on cargo floor are very handy. Haven't used roof rack yet.
    - Sports suspension and tires are awesome. Everybody really digs the looks, even my grandmother!
    - My 9-year old G-20 with 5-speed feels more nimble and responsive than the 323iT, though it isn't actually faster, is much noisier (engine!), and the suspension isn't nearly as refined. (Note: the G20 weighs nearly 500 pounds less.) The G20 seats, steering wheel and legroom are all superior, IMO. I think the feel of the steering, with more assist, is what makes for most of the difference. My wife actually prefers driving the G20 -- which is fine with me.
    - The 323iT is definitely a keeper. I think my daughter has her eye on it for when she gets out of college in 4 years!

    Cheers, Ken
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Ken, your experiences are interesting. How can a 9-year old Infiniti beater of a car match up in handling with a state-of-the art, new wunder car from Bavaria?

    I'll tell you why: weight. There is just no substitute for the lack of it. I am always amazed by folks who say they want a sports car and end up with 4k-lb sleds that accelerate like the wind (courtesy of big powerful engines) but make corners feel like you are tap-dancing with a hippo. The G20 (and similar Sentra SE) are very well-engineering lightweight cars with nifty four-cyl engines and great handling. They don't have that great a suspension control, but when you start out with 500-lbs less to control, you don't need that great a control.

    That is why I'm going for a 325i over the 330i and being careful on the options list. Stuff like sunroofs, electric seats, etc. adds up. Even worse is stuff like AWD. I'm not happy with adding another 140-lbs for my wagon vs. the sedan, but the utility is just so much better.

    If handling is what you're after, less is always more.

    - Mark
  • rjsenrjsen Member Posts: 30
    Careful with the weight thing. Remember, more weight = more downforce = more grip (to an extent). The M5 weighs about 4000 lbs., and it handles amazingly. As for AWD, if it's so bad, why is the 911 Turbo only available with AWD? The handling benefits of a good AWD system far outweigh (no pun intended) the drawbacks.
  • hicairahicaira Member Posts: 276
    You say :
    "The handling
    benefits of a good AWD system far outweigh (no pun
    intended) the drawbacks."

    True, IF (and only if) you have enough power (torque) to overcome the disadvantage of additional weight. The 911 has that in spades. The 325 is a bit weak to begin with. Now a 330ix wagon might be just the ticket - but of course, they don't make one.

    HiC
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