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Comments
What was wrong that you changed them? Regular wear or abnormal wear?
What kind of transmission do you have?
Do you ride brakes by any chance?
Krzys
My driving is strictly urban/suburban. In my area, the road surfaces are very abrasive "tar & chip" topcoated.
This is all despite religious attention to rotation, alignment and tire pressure - all borne out by the fact that the tires wear very evenly across the tread pattern, both front and rear.
I'm still on my original set of front brake pads and on the first set of replacement pads for the rears, installed around 25,000 miles. I don't ride the brakes and I downshift descending the hills here in hilly western PA.
The second set of pads is wearing much better than the first. I used aftermarket pads (PBR Deluxe Plus - good wear, very low dust, and quiet, too). I replaced the rotors with the pads just on general principles. DIY it cost me around $80 to do the job on the rear brakes.
I have a GLX 4 motion with automatic transmission. I downshift on the hills as my transmission seems to be a lot stronger than my brakes! I do normal around town and highway driving. I'm on the California coast where there's no snow and nominal rain fall.
My tires wore around the edges. Proper tire pressure was maintained and the alignment has been checked frequently. I'm now having the tires rotated myself and am looking for a good independent mechanic in Santa Cruz to work on the car as I don't think the dealer really does what they say they do.
60000 miles. 2nd set of tires. OEM Michelin MXV4 replaced around 30000 during winter as they were getting scary. Still plenty of tread left. Replacement - Bridgestone RE950. Still good to go.
Rear brakes replaced, fronts original - unless my memory is really bad.
Questions: Alignment - does good mean withing spec or right where it is supposed to be? There is a range and if you get border cases then it may not be that good.
The edges - outside edges? It could be toe out (I wish I knew but it looks like this from front \---/). It could also be aggresive cornering. Do you drive through mountains? California has everything but where do you drive?
Bridgestone RE750 is "Ultra High Performance Summer" tire with UTQG rating 340 AA A. Such tires usually wear faster than grand touring tires (like original Michelins).
Krzys
PS I just did 60000 service at dealer and they did rotate tires. I should have asked them not to as I did it recently myself. I treat it as a workout ;-)
My tires wore around the edges. Proper tire pressure was maintained and the alignment has been checked frequently.
Do you mean that the tires wore on both the inner and outer edge? To me, that's a classic sign of underinflation. What PSI are you using?
Personally, I've gotten very even wear (albeit rapid) using 32 PSI all around. This is a higher amount than the tire pressure placard calls for in my driving situation (under 100 mph and half load).
This car has been great, no problems. It's surprising to hear about all these complaints.
Can't find them locally or on-line. Can you assist?
They will also reimburse for any repairs caused by dirt and debris clogging the air plenum area. I had this problem 14 months ago, and even though I was past the Warranty years, I contacted VW Customer Care and they did reimburse me for the part. I have sent in the form to get reimbursed for the repair costs.
"In rare cases, during cold weather, frozen water may impede proper performance of the brake vacuum assist."
I think they are referring to my car. We get a lot of rain in Vancouver, but this day it was -8C, and as i entered the first corner I found we had next to no brakes. Luckily there was a snow pile on the side of the road (rare here) so I dumped the car into that. No damage as only going 20kph, but not fun. I wasn't meant to be driving that day, and my wife usually takes the alternate route where the first braking area is a T-junction onto a major roadway.
Once in the shop (not a VW dealer) it turned out that water had pooled where the brake vacuum assist is located, as the drain BELOW the vacuum assist was plugged by leaf debris. Therefore, when the temperature dropped below zero it froze and either seized and/or cracked the assist, rendering it inoperable.
So when you take the car in, ask if the drain is blocked.
I reported the incident to Transport Canada and VW back in Nov 2006, so seems like they followed up.
All labour and parts, plus required towing and rental car, are going to be covered by VW, but having no brakes is not fun.
Thanks,
Joe
See if you can, get a copy of Service Action #9 sent out in November 2006. If you can't I can dig it out and send you a pdf.
marmike
Hopefully this makes sense. I have never been a fussy customer, ever. I have seen some posts about joining a lawsuit which I would love to do because this is just wrong vw should pay for all expenses related to this problem. If anyone has had success in getting reimbursed for damages caused by this recall please contact me at rcasper2@twcny.rr.com my name is Rob. Thanks in advance for any info.
Firstly; I am in the UK and have been dealing with VW UK directly. I never received any correspondence as the one you have there. I dont believe they sent them out in the UK.
VW refer to this as a workshop action and not a "recall" with the real difference being that a recall would be considered something that they are legally obliged to do because of safety concerns.
They refer me to p28 of the service manual which alludes to the regular cleaning of the air plenum to prevent debris build up and since they've declared in the manual any damage occurring from this neglect would be my responsibility.
What they dont mention in the manual is HOW to clean he air plenum and the consequences of not doing so (no brakes).
I will be pursuing a legal action. Any help or info would be greatly appreciated.
=============================
From: xxx, Michael
Sent: December 06, 2006 9:36 AM
To: 'lamophp@tc.gc.ca'
Subject: VW Passat (2001): failure of brake booster
Patrick,
As discussed, please find attached the scan of the repair bill for the frozen booster pump.
VIN #: WVWVD63B12E100480
PRODUCTION DATE: 07/01
Brake booster pump failed on our 2001 Passat and I had to dump the car into a snow bank. The failure mechanism seems to be related to a blocked drain hole that led to pooling of water and both corrosion of the part and freezing on the day of the incident. Temperature was -8 or 9C at the time. Brakes may have “worked”, but VERY marginal as I did not slow appreciably from approximately 15 to 20 kph.
Michael xxx
xxx xxxx Road, North vancouver, BC
I'm also in the UK and having what could be similar problems (Passat Estate Sept 2001)
Firstly, brakes appeared squelchy as though there was air in the system, then a week later approx -3 degrees the brakes locked on and would not release and clips breaking below the dash - this ended up with £200 bill for replacement. 3 days later -5 degrees and the brakes again locked - car taken to VW and they say they cannot reproduce the problem although changing the servo ~£700 "might" fix the problem.
Showed them the VW letter posted earlier and all they say is that cars in the UK are not necessarily the same build an parts as those in USA/Canada.
Have you got anywhere with VWUK? I would like to follow this up in parallel with you.
I've got what sounds like the same problem, but no luck getting VW to fix it yet; I'll watch this forum; please post (or send me a message) if you have any luck getting paid back by VW. I am glad just to see your message, as I haven't been able to get my car's brakes fixed, and am scared to drive it (I've tried both my VW dealer and another mechanic who has helped me with tough-to-diagnose problems in the past, and they cannot find a problem with the brakes).
I have had the brakes fail _twice_, both times in wet conditions right before I was leaving town for a couple of weeks, and both times there was water in the passenger compartment when I returned and tried to have someone address the brake problems. The brake pedal would move maybe 1/2 an inch or so, and then get really hard and not move at all, with perhaps 5% of the brake power one would expect when pushing on the brakes. Fortunately the hand brake was not affected, and I have a manual transmission and can downshift to slow the car, but neither of these is an adequate replacement for the main braking system! By the time I returned from my trips the brakes functioned normally again, making it hard to diagnose the problem or know whether it is being fixed.
The first brake failure was in August (2007), when the problem occurred during heavy rain. The local dealer did the "P9" repair on the plenum and took out, dried, and re-installed the carpet (and even got VW to pay for it --- kudos to Piazza VW of Ardmore for that!). But they didn't do anything about the brakes, as far as I know (the "P9" letter had arrived while I was away, and I took this to the dealership and asked them to do the required service, but may not have specifically told them to fix the brakes. I can't remember exactly what I said when I took it in. I think I was relieved that the brakes where a known problem and could thus be fixed).
The second failure happened just a couple of weeks ago, on a cold morning when the car had been covered in snow. I took it back to the dealer for service this morning, and emphasized the brake problem was not fixed. They have examined it and cannot find a problem (which is understandable, as I can't demonstrate it now, but not exactly reassuring). Also, they say that this is a different problem, and the water is coming from a leaky door seal, which is probably true, but they want me to pay the $95 for inspecting the brakes since they don't think that the P9 service is involved. Ugh.
Did the brake vacuum repair actually fix your brakes? Exactly what did they repair or replace? At this point I am more concerned about being killed while driving than getting VW to pay for this, but it would be nice to both get it fixed and get VW to pay if it is related to P9 or otherwise a manufacturing issue.
Also, I submitted a complaint to NHTSA at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm. According to the person I called on the phone, they will send me a printed copy of the web form in 4-6 weeks, and I'll need to sign it and send it back, and an engineer will review the problem to determine whether or not there needs to be a recall. I assume that the odds of this go up if there are several people complaining, so you might want to submit a description of your problem, and we'll see if NHTSA decides to act on it.
Dave (in Ardmore, PA, USA)
Thanks for the information, the VW garage recommended this as one of their engineers had carried out a private fix for another customer and this had seemed to work. Unfortunately this an very expensive experiment although it looks like I may have to take this route. The car is currently with an independent garage as VW franchised dealers hourly rates are too high for "experiments".
I will let you know what he finds.
Rod
My main problems now are
1) I remain somewhat anxious about the brakes. They stop the car well, despite the well-below-freeing. However, the brake pedal feels different from the other car I've been driving --- it feels good when actually stopping, but when I'm stopped, if I keep pushing on it, it slowly moves toward the floor. The VW mechanic says this is normal for Passats.
2) that the water in the car is apparently due to a bad door seal ($1100 to replace it and do an extinsive carpet cleaning). I'm going to take the car to my regular mechanics to have the door seal replaced and perhaps a more modest carpet cleaning.
I'll also ask my regular mechanic for his opinion of the brakes, but out of curiousity, could anyone else with a Passat confirm that the brake pedal slowly moves away from you if you continue strong pressure when stopped and the engine is running?
Thanks for any data you can provide!
Dave
However, the brake pedal feels different from the other car I've been driving --- it feels good when actually stopping, but when I'm stopped, if I keep pushing on it, it slowly moves toward the floor. The VW mechanic says this is normal for Passats.
Sounds like the brake system still has air in the lines. I can only tell you my pedal DOES NOT slowly move to the floor while I'm stopped. I've never had a car that did that...ever.
IMHO, you need to find another dealer or repair shop. First, they don't know that the brake booster can suck in water if immersed from the clogged drain plug and now this about the brake pedal. Are we allowed to "call BS" within the TOS agreement here?
I also have just had an independent mechanic review the problems with my car (in the UK). Having been informed by the VW authorised dealer that the cars in the UK have different parts and that they had checked the plenum and that a blockage did not exist my local mechanic had approx 2 gallons of water emptied from the plenum when he cleared the blockage. He also then removed a significant amount of water from within the Servo - recommending that this be replaced as this is the second case of this that he had found - the other having significant internal corrosion following water in the servo.
With regard to the sinking brake pedal he again informed me that he has seen this several times on VW's and that the problems has normally been due to a problem with the master brake cylinder.
I am having both servo and cylinder replaced and will be raising this matter with VW (UK), my local VW retailer who failed to test for the condition when I had given them the copy of the US recall and a couple of UK Consumer bodies.
Watch this space.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Rod
Krzys
Anyway, I'm going to call VW of America and talk to them about the problem and having it covered by them if I go to a different dealer, and then hope there is another dealership not too far from Ardmore, PA. Until then, I continue not to drive the car. Fortunately my dad was able to let me use one of his cars. It's good to have family around at such times. Thanks also to Rod and everybody else in this discussion, for critically important information.
Dave
With regard to the sinking brake problem, my mechanic, in the UK, has changed the master cylinder and the old one shows signs of corrosion/rusting - whether this is a sign of the problems caused by the water in the servo and other problems I cannot tell.
However the result is now that the brakes all feel OK and do not sink when continually pressed.
Hope this helps.
Rod
For those who want the gory details of how I managed to get from bad brakes to working brakes without paying a lot of $$$, here it is, starting a few days after my last posting: before calling VW of America, I went back to Piazza VW of Ardmore (where I had been taking it), and asked them to check the brakes. They confirmed that the master cylinder was bad, and quoted me a price to fix it; I had the impression they wanted me to pay this in order to get the brakes fixed.
I spent a day or two being annoyed about this, and then called the service manager, identified myself, and said I wanted a chance to stop by and talk to him in person before I went to complain to VW of America. He was very agreeable about scheduling, and I was able to stop by on my way to work about 15 minutes later. He described in detail what was wrong with the car; my recollection is that his theory is that the bad vacuum booster caused a problem in the mechanical side of the master cylinder, without any water getting into the hydraulics, or fluid leaking out of the hydraulics. I said that I thought this should be covered under the P9, and he agreed, indicating that this had been the plan all along. They then replaced the master cylinder (and the vacuum booster) without charging me. The brakes have felt fine since, and not failed in the half a dozen times I've driven it (in a variety of conditions) since.
I'm not sure whether I just misunderstood the original statement about fixing it, or whether the manager of the service department made other calls to VW of America (or the regional VW manager) to convince them to consider this part of P9. But either way, it was fixed on their dime, and now seems fine. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best, driving the car again.
I have since contacted the MD of VW(UK) and the MD of the dealership. They are currently "investigating" the issue. VOSA (the UK vehicle and Operator Services Agency) say that the issue is not enough to warrant a recall although thay have informed me that a Service note went out to garages regarding this in September 2007, about a month after the USA. So much for my garage not being aware of it in December.
I am awaiting calls back from VW and the dealership to see how we progress this - I'll keep the thread updated.
Rod
The first item: on the instrument panel, on the LED readout I have , on the top line above the temperture readout, I hr/min numbers indicating trip time I imagine. Is there more options I can access?
2nd item: On the sunvisor, driver side, I have a panel with 3 buttons. I press each one and a light indicates the selection. What is this panel for?
3rd item: In my TDI manual, synthatic oil is recommended. What is the recommended oil for the Passat? (Florida driving)
4th item: Where can I get a second key? (other than $250 dealer cost)
I would appreciate any help anyone can give me.
Thanks
1) Average MPG Ø, Instanteous MPG, Trip Odometer, Miles until Refill, and elapsed time - you can toggle these via the rocker switch at the end of the right hand (wiper) stalk. There are two sets of each of these items that I listed. One will reset if the car has been off more than 2 hours. The other won't reset until you tell it to, or until really high values have been hit. You can toggle between the two computers by pressing the rectangular button on the bottom edge of the wiper stalk. The rectangular button will also reset either computer, if you hold it in long enough.
2) That is the Homelink system. It can be used to open garage doors, turn on lights, etc. I don't have this so I can't tell you any more about it. Try here: http://www.homelink.com/home/global.taf
3) Say "yes" to syntheitc oil - and it must meet at least VW Spec 502.00 (look on the back of the bottle) or, even better, 503.01. Most readily available is Mobil 1 0w-40. Castrol Syntec 0w-30 (must say Made in Germany on bottle) may be available at Autozone in your market. Look for the specs on the back of the bottle. MAXIMUM oil change interval is 5,000 miles. Follow this or risk sludging (coking) your engine if it has the 1.8T engine.
4) Can't help on the key.
BTW, did you look in the slot under the steering wheel for the manual? That's where it's supposed to be. Good luck with the new car!
I have the same problem. I bought the car in spain and I am now in Ireland.
First they said that I had to drive the car back to spain and get it fixed there (with a brake problem and 3 kids i the back !!) Anway, then they told me this was not a recall but a service, still waiting for their answer (ie from vw ireland).
Did you have any luck with your letter?
Not sure i would want to drive to Spain to get it fixed. Is VW organised into sepaate operating ubits across the EU? That may be the problem. Easier for them to pass off to another business unit.
Another article stated that to check the air injection pump, remove the hose at the egr valve and with engine running, air should be blowing through the hose. I tried this and there was plenty of air flow. With the engine running, I checked to see if the hose from the egr vacuum solenoid was drawing vacuum and didn't get an indication that it was at any rpm.
Before I spend a considerable amount of money on a new egr valve I need to know if the egr solenoid should be drawing the vacuum or does the port on the block where the egr valve mounts provide the vacuum necessary to allow the air to flow through it?
We are a family of four (two young boys) and really like the practicality of the above stated vehicle but I have never owned a VW (ok, I did have a '72 Westfalia back in the day) and need to be $ conscious (both now and with regard to future repairs).
So..the specs: 97k miles, Black clothe interior, 4WD, ABS, 2.8L, CC, A/C, Tiptronic Auto Transmission, power windows and locks, sun roof and luggage rack.
clean title, no accidents and clear car fax. Body in excellent condition, inside is very clean. Seller is asking $4900...
Anyhow, like I said, I could really use some advice.
Thanks in advance!
Dave
btw, what does CC mean??