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Audi allroad
The allroad is here with the 2.7T engine, 4 level
automatic air suspension and quattro. Is it the
ultimate all purpose vehicle, or just another
'pretend' SUV?
automatic air suspension and quattro. Is it the
ultimate all purpose vehicle, or just another
'pretend' SUV?
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Look at the X5, one of the most pretend SUVs around, it sells well and people love it. They don't care much about the offroad capabilities. The Honda CR-X isn't selling because of its offroad capabilities (or even quality AWD) either.
Where many pretend SUV's (explorer and suburban come to mind) suffer is in their lack of ground clearance. They are too tall to be sporty on pavement and too low to be useful off road. The allroad addresses that problem by actually getting higher.
Given the 250 hp biturbo engine and the body of an A6 Avant, this car could start a new concept in SUV's.
The X5 sells because it's a BMW. It's the pavement capabilities that sell it. So between MB320, X5 and the allroad, which will be the best?
Once again, who cares? It's a fake SUV, so what? Most people are fake SUV drivers.
I think the Allroad is wonderful and perfect for the market. It just isn't a true offroad vehicle. The name describes it well, it's good for all roads, even poor ones. Offroad is a different story.
1) Will the bigger engine be counteracted by the heavier suspension? In other words - will I get just as much pep from the regular 2.8 A6?
2) Is the interior space the same as the A6? I don't fit in some wagons (the smaller Volvo for instance) and want to make sure there is as much interior room in the front and back before I plunk down a deposit.
3) What are we talking dollar-wise?
4) Is it possible to get any bargaining leverage (Edmunds 3% over invoice rule) when you are on a waiting list for a new model? Seems like they have all the bargaining chips.
5) Should I be fearful about buying a car the first year it is released?
Thanks as always,
Jordan
2, same interior space as A6
3, I forget, go to Audi's website. I think about $45K.
4, no, not a chance. If you are on the waitlist for the car, you pay MSRP or very slightly less (like $500).
5, it isn't a first year car by a long shot. Only the suspension is new. Engine is 18 months tested, A6 in general 3 years tested.
Where's the deficit?
The new 3.0L BMW engine produces 225HP, although it isn't a very powerful 225HP, it performs significantly worse than the old 240HP M3 engine, despite similar ratings.
The new Audi 3.0L engine that comes around next year is expected to produce 225HP.
I think your assertion that Audi doesn't get enough power out of their 6-cyls is incorrect.
Jeff
Still, not a bad compromise. Audi not have an SUV in the works? Finally, A4 version would be interesting... Maybe in a performance/rally version perhaps?
-Beanboy
Audi SUV: bite your tongue. VW and Porsche get the VAG SUV's. I say good for them. VW probably could make a go of it, and the Porsche version will tank so fast it won't hurt them too much.
As to an A4 version being interesting? Have you been asleep? The S4 Avant has been available in Europe for quite some time. It has the 2.7T engine (but with 265HP) in an A4 Avant (wagon) body with a better suspension. The S4 Avant comes to the US this year, quite soon really.
In Europe they have the RS4, which is available as an Avant (wagon) only. It is an S4 Avant with a super-tweaked 2.7T engine producing 380HP. It is the fastest wagon available In Europe. The RS4 is not coming here.
Both of these cars seem to fit your description of an "A4 version" of the Allroad, except for the suspension, which you don't seem very hot on anyway.
Audi's rally car seems to remain the S3. Rally cars do seem to get a lot of gain from being very small, so that makes sense. The S3 is essentially a VW Golf with a TT drivetrain making "only" 215HP.
As to why they don't get more out of their NA engines, I guess the five valve configuration makes it more difficult for them to employ a variable valve timing. I think their V6 has a longer stroke and smaller bore than the BMW I6. This may help them keep the engine shorter which allows it to be mounted (oh what's the opposite of transverse) in line with the drive shaft and still keep the engine way up in the nose. So while the engine makes the same amount of hp, it takes them longer to get to the peak hp rpm.
Quattro cars have not been so much about acceleration but cornering speed. This is what allowed them to kick BMW butt in the 1995-96 German sports car series and got them eliminated from the series for having an "unfair advantage".
I wish Audi would ditch the 5-valve design. My philosophy is that if you can't get it done with 4 valves, maybe you don't need to do it. 4 continuously variable valves seems to work well for Toyota/Lexus and BMW.
The opposite of transverse (for engines) is longitudinal. The engine in the A4,A6, and A8 (and Passat) is longitudinally mounted. And I agree, the shortness of the V6 gives them Audi's a better shape and more under hood flexibilty than BMW's straight 6. BMW's straight 6 has to be mounted back so far for weight distribution that it can be difficult to service and is noisy at times.
BMWs 2.8L is "square" at 3.31 bore x 3.31 stroke. Audi's 2.8L is 3.24x3.40. Strange that Audi adds a valve and loses bore, but there you go. Note BMW added stroke (and no bore) with the new 3.0L engine. If my math works, the new stroke should be 3.55.
Seems like the long stroke should make the 3 liter inline 6 for BMW a torquey performer.
-Beanboy
You could probably dump 50 lbs just of sound-dampening material (look inside the front fenders at the door openings!).
If you are going to change the suspension, breaks, and tweak the engine, you might do well to buy A4's (perhaps even 1.8Ts) and replace the engine with a 2.7T engine instead of buying S4s from Audi which are limited edition and high profit margin. Would take a lot of front-end work though. Ooh, then you need to buy new trannies also (1.8T is 5-speed). Ouch. That's about $8K right there. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea.
I don't know why I never responded to the torque question above. I'd be surprised if the torque band is wider on the E320 or the X5. the E320 didn't feel wider to me, and I've never driven the X5. Trust me, the 2.7T engine is smoother and more powerful in every way than the E320 engine. The 2.7T engine is making full torque (258 ft-lbs) at 1800RPM. Audi can claim this because they lie about full torque. The engine makes 258ft-lbs from 1800RPM to 3400RPM, and Audi claims it is flat. Actually, it peaks at about 270 or 275, and drops slowly toward 258 at 4000RPM.
-Beanboy
I agree the A4 doesn't make much sense as a wagon. Putting a big rear end on a car with small rear seat room isn' t the best idea.
Most Avant owners I know wonder why anybody would get the A4 sedan.
I had to pick between the 193HP wagon or 250HP sedan. I took the sedan.
Audi now offers an S4 Avant in the US. Rear seat is too small for me though.
Test drove the allroad--fabulous--but too pricey for me.
<<A HREF="http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/concept/steppenwolf/index.html">http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/concept/steppenwolf/index.html>
primitive, I've seen a couple of Allroads sitting on a dealer lot here in Southern California. I imagine they are in short supply in places like the Northeast?
Thanks.
-rdo
rdollie@home.com
The one fly in the ointment is that they posted acceleration figures of the low sixes. Gees, my BMW 540 T does better than that and I don't have to deal with Audi's squishy breaks, soft handling, poor build quality, bad fuel economy and sucky dealer network. I hope they plan on pricing this below $50K if they expect to compete.
and was concerned about the traction of the
Quattro
thanks in advance
Stan
sgbassin@aol.com
I do like the allroad a lot and would love to get one, but I first need to be assured that I'll be able to tow with it when we want to take the boat out.
Until today. I test drove the Allroad and thought it was a great car. There are more standard features offered and it goes for approximately 10k less. I am now considering the Allroad, but the history of my A6 is haunting me. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
You might want to check out the Audi allroad forum at audiworld.com. There are many posts on the product.
It has done some light off road and sandy washes, and performed fairly well. The height leveler is not a gimmick.
The Bose stereo upgrade is well worth it as is the cold weather package.
Only problems so far was faulty fuel gauge sending unit and a slight engine (not the turbo) whine, on hard acceleration. Fixed the former, no action on the latter by Audi.
This car replaces the Subaru Outback LTD ('98) for us. It is so not in the same class as
to not warrant a comparison.
The Allroad is a great SUV alternative; and is as much fun as I can imagine having, while being in a wagon. Lots of compliments on appearance.
Thanks -- Stan
This brings us to the dilemma.
We *really* want to like the Outback. It has everything we want except for one thing. It is really uncomfortable. the seats are small and hard. The depth of the seat is really short. for long trips (most weekends in the winter are 4-5 hours to the mountains) this is not good. I said we really want to like - we just don't. If we could get big comfy seats it would be perfect.
Enter, the Audi A6 Quattro. Great car. VERY comfortable. Also pretty expensive. This would be o., but when we inquired about the tires - the dealer told us NOT to switch to a now/mud rated all terrain tire. He said that the performance would be really bad. Is this true? He said that we might consider having a second set and switching them out for ski season. the reason the tire issue is so big is that we don't want to have to put chains on. We ski mainly in Tahoe and most snow conditions here call for chains OR 4 wheel/all wheel with snow/mud rated tires. the worst we will drive in is with cans required to be carried, which is stage two. If it gets to stage three - 4 wheel/all wheel must have chains - we aren't going anywhere!!! Also, we notice that the spews call for premium gas. What about mid grade? Or a different question is ... if we get the A6 and we use premium - what type of emissions are we talking about?
Of course, the tire question is answered with the All Road. Of course, I don't need this whole hydraulic thing. I just want to get to the snow. So, is the hassle and premium on the Allroad worth it? I haven't driven it yet - how different is it from the A6?
As for the allroad, it comes with M+S rated tires. It also has a considerably more powerful engine (2.7-liter biturbo vs. 2.8 liter non-turbo for the A6 Avant). Many people dislike turbos because they think they're unrealiable, but there's no evidence to suggest that a turbocharged engine is any less trustworthy than a non-turbo one. In addition, the turbochargers will give you much better performance in the thinner mountain air since they forcefully feed air into the engine. Oh, and you'll still need to use premium gas. If you can afford it, I think you'd probably appreciate a lot of what the allroad offers. On the other hand, you should be able to easily modify a normal A6 to fit your needs. Go check them out for yourself.
I have scoured the web for information about it and come up blank. Even the car review sites only mention it in passing...
I'd appreciate if someone could give some details about this system, the map CD's, where you have to put them, how many are required for the whole US, does it include 'points of interest' like so many other, would it be better just to add on an aftermarket system like the Alpine?
Many thanks in advance!
There are 2 distinct camps on the allroad GPS. One group really prefers the map based systems and the other likes the allroad system. I actually prefer the unobtrusive allroad GPS to the others. The display appears discreetly in the area where you normally have the trip computer, etc. It shows arrows the indicate either straight ahead, left, or right turns. The names of the streets are shown below. There is a female voice that informs you of turns, etc. We have tried to get it lost and it has never failed. If you do not take a suggested turn, the system automatically recalculates a new route. The only disadvantage that I can see is that the controls of the GPS take the space of the console beverage cup holder. It would also be nice if one CD/DVD would cover the entire US.
I have used the Hertz neverlost that is map based. Even though there are some advantages to having maps, I still prefer the allroad system.