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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    Is there a ATF filler plug or do you fill the fluid through the ATF dip stick? Also, where can I buy the tools to loosen the rear differential filler and drain plug? Hope to here from subie experts.

    Alland (02 LL Bean)
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Alland,

    On 4 cyl cars, the auto tranny is filled thru the dipstick tube. I don't know about the H6.

    The rear diffy plugs are sized for the 1/2" drive socket head at the end of the wrench handle (I had to ask too)! Remove the FILL plug first. Mine was so tight that I did the following: Taped thin brass shim to the socket head to reduce free play, positioned the wrench and added a cheater bar, used a jack to turn the wrench. I may have bounced on the car too when the jack seemed to raise the whole car instead of loosening the plug. Once it breaks loose, it's easy. Then you repeat the whole process with the drain plug.

    HTH,

    Jim
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Allard,

    You will find a drain plug for the ATF on the transmission pan, but refill is thru the dipstick tube. I used a funnel with a section of flexible plastic hose attached to refill it.

    The rear diffy has two plugs, both use a 1/2" square drive. If you happen to own an impact gun, set it on low torque and increase as required. If not, a standard 1/2" socket wrench set will do fine, but you will have to work harder! Problem is that the plugs are in very tight. Place a length of pipe on the ratchet handle for more leverage. You might try placing a small sissor jack or pump jack under the pipe to use the weight of the car to help break them free.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    You got there first!!! But at least we both told the same basic story.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Don't know if I mentioned it, but I bought 8 at once, 4 on alloy for the OBW, 4 on steel w/covers for the Ody. Why don't you just follow me home one night this week and we can heft one of each down off the garage wall for you to see for yourself??? I drive past your office on the way to the Taconic...

    Steve
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    Jim and Steve,

    Thanks for the reply. I only have a 3/8 square drive, so I need to invest in either 3/8 to 1/2 adapter or a new 1/2 square driver. I remebered from earlier Juice's post that the filler plug should be loosen up first before the drain plug on the rear differential just in case you drain the fluid and can't fill it up.

    Alland (02 LL Bean)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Snows. I'm debating M2 or M3, probably will go with M3s.

    -mike
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Get the beefiest 1/2" wrench you can find. If you put an adapter on your 3/8" socket, it may twist the tip right off!

    Craig
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    This is no job for a 3/8" drive ratchet (unless you want to test Sears about their Craftsman Lifetime Warranty). Beg/borrow/steal a decent 1/2" from a friend...

    Steve
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Well, I used a 3/8" with an adapter...but it was NOT a ratchet. It was a breaker bar. BTW it now has a slightly bent handle. 8~o

    Jim
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Interesting. I usually use a ratchet 1/2" with a hammer. Haven't had too many problems on the subies thus far. Just keep tapping away with a 5lb BFH :)

    -mike
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Lying on my back beneath a car, I'm not sure how many taps I could get in with a 5lb BFH before my arm gave out. 8~P

    Jim
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well take your time and make sure it's on jack stands.... :)

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I would assume that you own an impact (air for home, electric for on the road) ratchet??

    Steve
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    I did the ATF flushing over the last weekend and I did according to the instruction from Amsoil web site: drain the fluid (5 quarts came out), disconnect the ATF hose from the radiator, start the engine and let the ATF drain from the the rediator ATF hose until 4 more quarts came out from the ATF hose (Total ATF capacity is 9 quarts according to owner's manual). My question is, " Is the ATF coming out from the radiator ATF hose is the undrained ATF directly coming from the torque converter or is it the mixture of the new fluid and the ATF from torque converter (the fluid from torque converter returns to oil pan, mix with the new oil and routed to the rediator warmer)?

    The reason I ask is because when I was lookin at the fluid coming out from the rediator hose new ATF came out a lot sooner than I expected which indicates that the ATF oil is coming from the pan rather than directly from the torque converter. In this case, I don't think I achieve complete flushing. May be as soon as you start the engine, the new ATF fluid is routed to the rediator, and I am draining the fluid that I just filled in. What do you think?

    When I did the flushing on my 2000 Honda Odyssey, it took a while for the new fluid to show up at the rediator ATF hose. That is why I am a bit puzzle and doubtful that I did the flushing on my 02 LL Bean.

    Alland
  • jedlinlaujedlinlau Member Posts: 1
    I'll be taking my sweet ride in for her 60K service in a couple of weeks, and I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations for the parts that I'll be replacing (e.g. spark plugs, tires, etc.). Thanks in advance!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I just got a 1/2" drive with a long handle. Worked like a charm on my rear diffy.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    In days gone by, torque converters actually had a drain plug. You removed a small cover on the bell housing, rotated the converter till you found the plug, and drained it.

    I just don't see how much of the fluid in the converter can get out though without the pump running. It is pretty well trapped in there. Removing the hose from the radiator might drain some of the low hanging fluid in the case, plus whatever is in the internal radiator cooler and lines, but not much else.

    I have heard of a two man operation in which one pours in fresh fluid while running the engine and cycling the shifter, with the cooler line dumping into a 5 gal jug. That would probably work quite well. But you better be careful, as they don't run happy for too long if they run dry!

    Steve
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    I don't think I got a good result of flushing compared to my Honda Odyssey. When I was draining the ATF through my rediator, I was taking extra precaution. I asked my wife when to turn the engine on and off. I let out a quart at a time. When the engine was running, I was also filling the fluid. Next, I stop the engine fill up more fluid and repeat until total of 4 quarts of fluid came out from rediator from ATF hose. Like Steve said, I was afraid of running it dry. So, I was taking extra precaution and making sure that the 'in and out' difference is less than a quart during flushing.

    For the next ATF change, I will stick with drain and refill.

    Alland
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I do the drain-refill over several times over the course of a few months and evntually get all the non-synth out.

    For the diffy I use a regular ratchet or breaker bar, but I do have air tools and electric impact if need be :)

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Allard,

    So you were running the engine. I thought from your initial post that it was off - why I answered it in the way I did.... Sorry.

    Subi say to just drain and refill the pan 1x time. So you change around 50% of the fluid. I also have an '02 Ody. Honda says, IIRC, to do the drain and refill 3x in a day, or something like that. This would remove about 90% total. I guess that the current thinking is that unless you abuse the unit, changing part will be good enough.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My suggestion?

    Get a Subaru Chase credit card, earn Subaru bucks, then let your dealer do the service and pay for it with that credit.

    Free service!

    -juice
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    The main reason I did the flushing according to Amsoil instruction was I was switching to Redline D4 synthetic ATF, and I wanted to remove the nonsyn out as much as possible. Next time, I stick with Paisan method. If you are interested in the Amsoil instruction, here is the link.

    http://www.amsoil.com/faqs/faq8.htm

    Hey Juice, I do enjoy reading your post. The amount of bill that I put on my credit card, I probably have to wait about ten year before I can get a free service. By then, I will move on to a different car. Humm.., I think I should start paying my mortgage with the credit card. This way, it will speed up the free service. One of my friends puts all the bills including mortgage on the credit card and write a huge check to credit card company every month.

    Alland
    ( 02 LL Bean, Mobil 1 5W30 every 7500 miles with pure one filter, Redline ATF, next step 75W90 Redline on front and rear diffy)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hopefully you ordered the amsoil through my teamiac page :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We just got our card, and we charge a lot. My wife even charges business expenses on hers, and she's often reimbursed, so Bingo - free Subaru bucks.

    The really nice thing about the program is you don't have to buy a car like you do with the GM card. Being able to use it for service means no matter what happens they won't just go to waste.

    -juice
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    So far I have received $400.00 in Subaru Bucks-the latest $100.00 installment is going to go for 4 new tires of my choice (Yokohama LS4's) The Service Manager is getting them for me(they do not stock them)and meeting the price of the local tire dealer. By taking advantage of this card I have managed to save money (the overall cost is less than it would have been had I purchased them online),have them installed at a convenient location and continue a good relationship with the Service dept. It seems like a win-win situation to me
  • rickprickp Member Posts: 5
    Hi,

    Looking to trade in my Saab for a Subaru legacy outback wagon.

    Are their any particular mechanical issues to look for? Reliability? Durability? Etc?

    Thanks!

    Rick
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    http://www.media.mazda.com/news_release/product_info/2004/0924a_e- .html

    They will be bringing a MazdaSpeed6 to the States. Turbo and AWD.

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Seems to me that the system isn't that robust if they need to have a coolant system for the diffy! Seems odd and just something else to worry about. Also will the AWD be on all of them or an "option"?

    -mike
  • ozman62ozman62 Member Posts: 229
    marketing thing is starting to sound kind of infantile. It doesn't really go with what Mazda is trying to accomplish with this car, IMO. I think it could became a liability soon.
    Owen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sweet, tires, didn't even think of that...

    2001/2002 models, let's see.

    The 2.5l was standard on all models except the VDC and the LL Bean, which had the H6. By the the 2.5l was the Phase II EJ25.

    When you shop, look for head gaskets leaks and check the front and rear main seals. An oil leak should be obvious, check for stains on the bottom of the block.

    Subaru is covering the gaskets for 8 years, 100k miles, so you'd be covered anyway. But still, check.

    My dad has a 2001 OB Ltd, my wife a 2002 Legacy L. Both have been perfectly reliable so far. Overall I'd say my dad is a bit more satisfied. We prefer our Forester over our Legacy.

    Just my 2 cents' worth.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Go to the Cafe threads, I shared some info about this model there. It will be a real competitor to the Legacy GT IMO. AWD standard, 274hp, 6 speed, HIDs, rear LSD, etc.

    -juice
  • deadeye5deadeye5 Member Posts: 93
    Hi Saw a 1995 Wagon the other day--Looks Perfect.
    Am curious if any of you own one and any comments would be appreciated. I have a 04 XT now and know the step-down to a 2.2 eng. would be a shock.
    But,if I can pick this one up for 4-5K I just might add it as a 2nd Subie ..
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    2.2l is near bullet proof. One of Subaru's most reliable powertrains ever.

    With that age maintenance and condition is everything, so check those out.

    -juice
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    I owned a 99 Legacy Brighton Wagon with the 2.2 litre engine.(same design as the 95 wagons). It was reliable and performed adequately. The 2.2 litre engine was known to be very reliable. I traded it on a 2000 Legacy sedan because I liked the styling and was annoyed that the only way to lock the doors on the Brighton wagon was with the key (you couldn't push the lock button and just slam the door, it would automaticly unlock).
    I barely noticed the difference in performance between the 2.2 in the wagon and the 2.5 in the 00 Sedan.

    - Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you hold the door handle would it lock? I thought that's how Japanese cars used to work.

    -juice
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Had the clutch replaced in my 99 Outback the other day after 135,000 km (about 85,000 miles).

    A subsequent glitch was the failure of the clutch slave cylinder when it was suddenly asked to actuate the new clutch. Back to the dealer where I had a lengthy chat to the workshop foreman who persuaded me it was bad luck, not their fault.

    Once I indictaed that I knew what I was talking about he got very chatty. The Service Adviser had mentioned that this guy was lead on the Subaru Rally Team cars, all of which were in the workshop at the time, including the Cody Crocker car which was in the dyno booth running hard. This is a fully set up unit with glass wall so clients (and a fair few of the staff) can peer in as the engineer tunes it electronically). Always amusing as the guys tuning WRXs always have that intense mechanical engineer look of real seriousness.

    The converation with the foreman was interesting. He commented that he thought the 99-03 2.5 litre (might be 2000-004 in the USA) SOHC engine was the pick. Apparently whenever they get a 95-98 DOHC engine in, they insist on a head gasket change if not already done. Also mentioned the cost of a broken timing belt, which runs AUD4,000 to AUD8,000.

    Oddest thing about the clutch change i that the removal of the accumulated clutch dust from the bell housing has suddenly made the starter motor very noisy. Gave me a heck of surprise the first few starts as I wondered if it was my car.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Graham,

    What's the symptom of a failed clutch cylinder? Does the pedal stay down when depressed? Is it intermittent or constant?

    Is it apparent I'm beginning to have a problem here???

    Jim
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    The symptoms were the clutch sticking half way down and feeling very dead. Onset occurred in heavy traffic. Apparently this is fairly common.

    Once slave cylinder replaced, feel returned to normal and no further problems

    Cheers

    Graham
  • emmanuelchokeemmanuelchoke Member Posts: 97
    TSB 03-52-03R covers this, MY Legacy 1995-2002.

         Speaking of transmissions, my 2000 Legacy started grinding slightly going into 5th gear and 5th gear only, mainly going uphill. I had drained the MT fluid out and replaced with Mobil 1 recently. Apparently I had overfilled the transmission by about one pint. I had filled it to the full line, but the car was on ramps at the time so on level ground it was too much. Filling it to specs fixed the problem. No metal in the fluid, which is a good sign.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The other problem is that Mobil 1 is too slippery for Subaru manual transmissions -- it interferes with the synchros (which rely on friction to operate). If the problem resurfaces, you can probably take care of it by switching back to regular old non-syn gear oil.

    A lot of WRX owners switched to Mobil 1 only to find that it was worse. So many people were playing around with various oils, trying to find an optimum. In most cases, I think plain old dino 75W-90 worked out the best (which is what the car came with).

    Craig
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Redline makes a synchro friendly synthetic gear oil 75w-90NS. It contains less slip agents allowing the synchros to do their job.

    Jim
  • emmanuelchokeemmanuelchoke Member Posts: 97
    Thanks for the replies, if the problem happens again it's good to know I have other avenues.

         My take on it is, 5th gear is located at the back of the transmission case and going uphill(over a mile, 6% grade)caused an already overfilled transmisssion to flood the syncro blocker rings with more fluid than they could remove before I shifted.

      It causes less stress on an engine to rev than to lug, so I use 4th gear most of the way up the mountain and then shift into 5th a few hundred yards from the summit. That is where the gear clash happened.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I replaced the one on my Miata. I think it failed at about half the mileage of yours, though it was much older (1993 model).

    Symptoms included a wild, varying idle. The pedal was soft and inconsistent, and the clutch fluid (brake fluid) was low.

    It's a pretty simple device, basically a rubber washer in a little metal cylinder. I agree that it could have happened independently of the new clutch. It is self-contained, so I believe that story.

    Good news for me was it was a $10.74 part, and I did the work myself. I used a turkey baster and less than a quart of brake fluid, plus my wife helped.

    Cheap repairs, gotta love 'em!

    -juice
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    No, I tried that trick right away. I asked the Subaru zone rep about it. He was surprised, but offered no solution. (The implication was, It was working as designed.) The same thing occurred with all doors on the Brighton, so I doubt it was a manufacturing defect.
    That is now ancient history. The Brighton model went away after MY2000.

    Jim
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    Purchased 4 new Yokohama Aegis LS4'S for my '96 OBW today-Even though my car is white I had the white stripe face in- With $100.OO Subaru Bucks deducted the total came to $247.72($61.93 per tire), this included mounting,balancing,valve stems,tax and disposal of my 4 old Michelin XW4'S. I will keep you posted as to how I like these tires as time and mileage progresses. I am particualy interested in seeing how they handle in the snow and rain this winter. Driving home they were certainly no louder than the Michelins perhaps even quieter -More shall be revealed.
  • sarpanchsarpanch Member Posts: 1
    My 2001 Outback H4 doesn't have good accelaration. Even Geo Metros are faster than my Subaru.
    Anyone in the forum has problems with the power ?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Auto trans or manual?? I had a 2000 Outback H4 with 5-spd, and it could hold its own. It was a lot of fun to drive. Autos are a tad slower, and gear changes may be un-cooperative some times.

    What are your symptoms?? Slow in general, or does it seem like the engine has a problem.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    C&D tested a Legacy with that engine, and coupled to a 5 speed it took 8.8 seconds to reach 60. A Geo Metro takes well over 10 seconds, not even in the same league.

    Yours might be down on power. Might be a good time for a tune-up, I'd change the plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, oil and filter, etc.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I believe Subarus tend to have higher-than average output engines for similar models in their class. All Subarus start at about 165HP.

    The 2000-2004 Legacy/OB did gain some weight, but not enough to make them "slow" vehicles. Not sports-car fast either, but plenty for most uses.

    Did you always have this issue or is it recent?

    Ken
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