Subaru Legacy/Outback

krzyss · October 2004

You forgot to mention that this "higher-than average output engines" go through standard AWD, unlike others.

Krzys

hilbert · October 2004

2005 L.L. Bean has less Torque that 2005 Outback XT. If someone has driven both of these OR those who have the former (LL Bean), can you please tell me your experience about how LL Bean's acceleration is starting from spped of zero and its power and comfort in general compared to the other.

Thanks.

c_hunter · October 2004

The Bean (new and old) H6 delivers power in a very refined and predictable linear fashion. The H4 turbo motor in the XT behaves like a typical turbo motor with Jekyl and Hyde behavior, though it's one of the more relaxed turbo motors I have driven. If you want refinement and smooth power, get the Bean. If you want maximum fun get the XT!

The Bean is a little weaker down low than the XT, but not by much.

You really need a test drive to see for yourself, we all have different opinions. I had an 02 Bean but now have the 05 XT, and appreciate both motors in different ways.

Craig

self_mechanic · October 2004

The biggest disappointment of my 02 LL Bean is the lack of torque at the low rpm. My Ody and my brother's 97 Camry have a better pick up from stand still. Aside from the lack of torque at the low rpm, the car is a gem.

Alland

snowbelter · October 2004

I have an 02 VDC and my wife had a 00 OB. From a stand still, both have similar, slow pick-up. Once you get going, the H6 is smooth, quiet, and accelerates well on the highway. The 05 H6 must really zip along. My wife now drives an 04 VDC sedan which is lighter and accelerates better than my wagon.

kens · October 2004

Linear and smooth are the key words that describe the H6 in the LL Bean model. It's not particularly torquey down low but gradually brings on more power as you climb the RPMs. Although the peak HP has been upped to 250 on the 05 model, peak torque still is about the same from where it was before.

Stout and responsive describes the 2.5 turbo. The H4 turbo pretty much bests the H6 in total available power except that it follows the characteristic turbo "push" as Craig describes. Down low, it's producing just a tad less than the H6 but the power climbs very quickly thereafter. Peak torque comes sooner, and stays flatter through the RPM band compared to the H6.

If you absolutely dislike the power delivery of a turbo engine then the H6 is a better choice. However, all else being equal, the H4 turbo produces better acceleration and useable power than the H6.

Ken

hilbert · October 2004

Thank you very much, C_hunter, self_mechanic and kens for your comments. I really appreciate it.

I will test drive both, but it seems that it is not enough to really understand how the car will behave. I would prefer the smooth acceleration of LL Bean, but at the same time I hope that acceleration from standstill is good enough for merging on freeway; on surface when I turn right on red; and when I take a left at an intersection. In my current car which is Hyundai Elantra, the acceleration is quite bad. Even when cars are pretty far and I start doing the things mentioned above, it seems that these cars have to slow down in response. Consequently, I have to wait longer for turning right and turning left until oncoming traffic is really far. Hopefully after paying so much for LL Bean, it will not have such a problem.

ponyrider2 · October 2004

Hi -

I have just purchased a used 03 Outabck Sedan and I am wondering is there any way possible to tell what recalls, maintenance, etc was done to a car through the Vin number? I have called our local Subaru dealer and my car is not listed in their database for repairs, only that it was purchased there.
There is a Recall Campaign sticker on the car but the information is unreadable on the sticker.
Thanks much, Susie

dcm61 · October 2004

Sign up at my.subaru: http://my.subaru.com

The service history will show any recalls and dealer performed maintenence and there should also be an alert for any recalls that are still open.

You can also call 1-800-SUBARU3, give them your VIN and they should be able to tell you the status of each recall and possibly dealer performed maintenance. While you have them on the phone, verify that they have the correct name & address since you bought a previously owned car.

Edit: The only recall on my '03 Outback wagon (manuf. 6/02) is Recall Campaign Number WWK94-A/T Parking Rod Recall.

DaveM

ateixeira · October 2004

Call the 800 #.

I don't think my.subaru.com will give you previous history, i.e. while the previous owner has it.

Patti once told me even dealers do not have access to that info, it is considered confidential for the owner.

-juice

subiedog · October 2004

Anyone know if this is correct info? I ordered some oil filters for my new LLBean Outback from Allsubaru.com. I was sent a different filter than is on it and than the manual calls for. Here is what they tell me:

"Direct from Subaru - the 15208AA031 is no longer available FROM Subaru. We
have to issue the new oil filters in place of this item.

Oil fitler number 15208AA031 supercedes/has been updated from Subaru to oil
filter number SOA5165109

SOA5165109 may not look exactly like the oil filter on your car from the
factory, but SOA5165109 is to take place of the 15208AA031 that you have on
your car."

Is this correct?

self_mechanic · October 2004

I cross checked the two part numbers at purolator web site, and these two part numbers point to L14459. So, theoretically they are interchangable. I believe Subaru OEM filters are made by Purolator.

Here is the link to cross checking the OEM part number with Purolator part number. Click on the "Vehicle Applications" and then the "interchange guide". Hope this helps.

http://www.pureoil.com/

P.S. I am currently using PL14459 ( Semi-synthetic filtration material) on my 02 LL Bean and you can get it at Pep Boys for about $4.99.

Alland

sooby1 · October 2004

I have a 97 Subaru Outback w/AT; 92,000 mi. With the car in drive when I turn the steering wheel all the way to the left and pull forward it feels as if something is binding or preventing the car from driving smoothly through the turn. If I put the trans in reverse and proceed backward with the wheel to the left the binding then becomes a grating/grinding noise coming from the area of the rear differential approx. The same occurs when the wheel is turned completely to the right but not nearly as bad. During normal driving when following the left/right turns of a road I feel/hear nothing and the car drives normally. It is only when making a sharp turn as when pulling into or out of a parking spot that the problem occurs. Is something amiss that when the car is in a tight turn the outside rear wheel is not able to turn freely to cover the longer distance it needs to travel as compared to the inside wheel?
Any insight would be welcomed

paisan · October 2004

when was the last differential fluid changed done? If it's like most cars, never in which case 92k it's due for a diffy fluid change.

-mike

rob_m · October 2004

Mike, I am curious on this one too.

My 99 GT Sedan has 111k. I had all fluids changed at 99k. While I don't have the grinding, I can feel some drag while backing up and turning.

lfdal · October 2004

Our 03 OBW has a "regular" rear diff, while the one in my 04XT has a LSD. Do I use the same fluid for both in the rear diff?

Also, as long as I'm going to take out the fill plug to check the level at 30k, should I just go ahead and change the rear diff fluid? Both cars see lots of city driving.

Last of all, would changing the front diff fluid at 30K be a good idea, again given that the cars both see lots of city driving?

TIA

Larry

dcm61 · October 2004

The rear LSD (and AWP) was standard on the '03 OBW. For '00 to '02, the rear LSD was part of the AWP.

DaveM

c_hunter · October 2004

I think LSD/AWP was only an option in the 2000 models. From 01-04, it was standard. The reason I remember is that I bought an 00 in June 2000 without AWP/LSD, and could have gotten them for a small price difference if I waited another month for an 01!!

Craig

dcm61 · October 2004

That's right it was just the '00 model that had the LSD bundled with the AWP.

DaveM

paisan · October 2004

The only subaru that needs special LSD fluid is the STi as it's a Mechanical LSD v. the Viscous one in the other subies so yes same fluid for both.

-mike

lfdal · October 2004

mike - thanks, I figured you'd know the answer.

Larry

coloradokate · October 2004

I am thinking of getting a 2005 Outback, but I just don't understand the different engines. Could you please explain the difference between a 4 cyl, 6 cyl, and turbo to me as far as the car's performance and why one would be more desirable over the others? Currently I drive a '93 Camry, V6 LE, with 68K on it. I live in Colorado, my car is the mommymobile, mostly short suburban trips, with occasional trips on highways and to the mountains. Since I am not clear on the engine types, I don't know which Outback I should buy.

Thanks in advance.

c_hunter · October 2004

The 2.5i "base" models have a regular "H4" engine, 168HP. This gets very good gas mileage, and is perfectly adequate for the car. I think this engine is very well matched with the manual transmission, less so with the auto.

The 2.5XT "sport" models get a turbo H4 (this is the only turbo in the lineup). Gas mileage is mediocre, but the cars are insanely fast and a lot of fun to drive. This is the hot rod of the bunch (I have one!).

The 3.0R "luxury" models get an H6. This engine is really smooth and quiet, and also very powerful (a bit less hot rod than the turbo, however). Definitely the luxury engine of the bunch. Gas mileage is mediocre on this one as well.

You'll notice the various engine options are paired with the base, sport, and luxury models in the Outback lineup. So, you sort of get the engine based on what type of model (and associated price range) you are interested in.

Good luck! My 05 is my 3rd Outback and I like it a lot.

Craig

nippononly · October 2004

I test drove an Outback with the 2.5 way back in 1997, and it was slow enough that it concerned me, and I went with the smaller Outback Sport instead.

The 2.5 today makes the same power as that 2.5 did in 1997, only it now powers an even heavier vehicle. Or, to put it another way, your '93 Camry has 10% more power, 15% more torque, and weighs 500 pounds LESS than this Outback. It's just not that great as the powerplant for a highway-tripper.

DEFINITELY consider the manual transmission very strongly if you are going to go with the base engine. Otherwise, it would be wise to look more at the XT turbo. The H-6 is a very nice engine, but can only be had in trim levels that are absolutely loaded to the gills with luxury equipment, and sell at $30K or more.

If I had my way, Subaru would offer the H-6 with a manual transmission and make it available for base models for $2000 or so extra.

c hunter has a point about the gas mileage, although I wouldn't call the base model's numbers "very good" - I would call them decent for an AWD vehicle. You do have to bear in mind that these cars have AWD which adds weight and consequently reduces fuel economy somewhat.

lumbar · October 2004

Wasn't there a minimal increase in horsepower in the base 2.5i for '05? FWIW, when I drove it, I thought the Sportshift AT made things fairly tolerable in the base model without necessarily having to go manual, although obviously it's not speedy and the manual is still preferable from that perspective. My mileage on a lengthy road trip (base 2.5i) going 70 approached 28-29 mpg, which I think is quite decent for an AWD of moderate size and better than I get in my OBS. Local driving dropped to about 23 or so.

nippononly · October 2004

yeah, it popped up 3 hp. When I said "the same power", I was taking the 3 little horsies into account. However, with all the use of aluminum in the '05, it is actually almost the same weight as the '97 was, so I probably made more of that than it was worth...during the intervening years, though, it was HEAVY. The 2.5i now has about the same power-to-weight ratio as the 4-cylinder Accord and Camry, in perhaps a slightly less aerodynamic package. When I test drove it recently, the dealer only had an automatic to try, and it felt barely adequate to me. I would go with a base model for the gas mileage and a manual for the slight extra oomph, if I were ready to buy.

Boy are these cars nicer on the inside now than when I was looking at them in '97! One thing is odd: I didn't notice it when I was in the car, but the reviews all say Outback does not have a height-adjustable driver's seat. If not, that is kind of a weird omission given they are trying to go upmarket a bit, and the smaller cheaper OBS has it.

ateixeira · October 2004

Keep in mind the new ones lost 180lbs in some cases, so even the base engine, with a small 3hp gain, are adequate.

Ask yourself how do you really drive daily, and how often you need the extra power?

-juice

tulane · October 2004

I just bought an Outback 2.5i(manual) and I've noticed a "tapping" noise. When I drove it over 65 MPH it seemed to get louder as though I needed to shift to another gear(I was already in 5th). My 2001 Forester could go 85-90 MPH and still seemed smooth. Is this just because this engine is not powerful enough for this car?
Also, the engine smells like it is burning which I'm hoping is just because it only has 500 miles on it.

ateixeira · October 2004

The smell might just be the undercoating overspray burning off the exhaust. I smelled that for about 2000 miles IIRC.

I'm not sure about the tapping...

-juice

c_hunter · October 2004

Juce is right about the undercoating.

I would get the tapping checked out at the dealer.

Can you tell if it's an engine noise or a driveline noise? Easiest way would be to push the clutch in at 65mph and see if the noise goes away or not. You could also try putting the car in neutral to see if it's a gear noise.

Craig

tulane · October 2004

The noise occurs when my foot is on the gas and stops when I take my foot off of the gas. The best way I can describe it is that it sounds like a bike when you put playing cards on the spokes with clothes pins.(I don't know if kids still do that). As I said before, it just feels like I need to put it in another gear even though I'm in 5th. Maybe I'm just not used to the new car. Anyway, other than that, this car is great.

c_hunter · October 2004

Do you get the noise when the car is stationary and you rev the engine, or does it have to be in gear and rolling?

The only time I have heard "similar" noises when applying throttle in gear at speed was due to people lugging the engine (ie, they would need to downshift). But going 65mph in 5th gear is definitely not lugging the engine!

Craig

tulane · October 2004

I think it's just when I'm moving and have my foot on the gas. I'm a health inspector so I'll be driving it today and will check back with you this afternoon. Thanks for the help.

xwesx · October 2004

I hate to make all the rest of you Subaru owners jealous, but we finally have our first good snowfall of the season here in Fairbanks!

I'm as giddy as a school boy. It's days like today that I absolutely love owning a Subaru - it makes me wonder how I ever made it through the winter driving my 2wd '69 chevy.....

ateixeira · October 2004

Lucky dawg! ;-)

-juice

zman3 · October 2004

My Outback is now 6.5 years old. The newness has worn off. I can wait as long as it takes for the first snow here in Minneapolis.

tulane · October 2004

The noise occurs when I'm standing still and step on the gas. I'm probably just being too sensitive since it's brand new and I was accustomed to my old Forester.

c_hunter · October 2004

Hmm, maybe still would be good to ask the dealer to listen too it. Despite many changes, the engine has the same characteristic boxer sound your Forester made. If it's a lot different, maybe something is up. I would trust your first instinct.

Craig

plantz · October 2004

In the latest issue, Consumer Reports got 18 mpg overall for the 2005 Legacy GT. They're generally pretty conservative in their testing. The other cars in this test - Acura TSX, Audi A4, Volvo S40 - all got 23/24 mpg. I'm surprised that awd and a turbo would use that much more gas.

I'm considering the wagon. I would like to have the power of the turbo once in a while, but most of the time I'm a very conservative driver. I would get the manual transmission, simply because I prefer it.

For those of you who have had Subarus for a while, what is your real world experience with gas mileage?

Thanks,
Bob

fibber2 · October 2004

'02 Outback Wagon, H4 (no turbo), 4spd auto = 23 mpg. Very little variance in my gas mileage. Tank after tank...

Steve

lfdal · October 2004

Wife's 03 OBW, H4, Auto - 20-22 around town, 24-26 on the highway.

My 04 Forester w/Turbo - 16 around town ( 17 on a really good tankful) and 23-24 on the highway.

My wife and I have exactly the same commute, and when I drive her OBW I get the same mileage she does. She gets the same mileage on my Forester that I do as well.

HTH

Larry

zman3 · October 2004

98 Outback, 2.5L, auto - totally different beast than what you are looking at but....

The best tank ever was 23 mpg, the worst ever was 19 mpg when really cold outside. Average is almost always about 21 mpg.

Karl

c_hunter · October 2004

I'll list our last couple Subarus and the average mileage in mixed and all-hwy driving:

2000 Outback H4/manual: 22-23mixed/27-28hwy
2002 Outback H6/auto: 21-23mixed/27-29hwy (saw 30 once)
2003 Forester H4/auto: 20-21mixed/26-28hwy
2003 WRX H4-turbo/manual: 20-23mixed
2005 Outback XT H4-turbo/auto: 19-21mixed/23-25hwy

Craig

rob_m · October 2004

1999 GT 2.5 Auto Sedan - 28 hwy, consistent since day 1

2003 Outback 2.5 Auto - 22-24 mixed, saw 29 on a 500 mile roadtrip using A/C and cruise, no wife, no kid, no bikes, no luggage

Former 1996 Outback 2.5 Auto - 24-26 mixed. Used Premium.

gearhead4 · October 2004

I am now driving my third Subaru. Here are my MPG experiences:
2000 Legacy L Sedan 2.5L MT 23-31 MPG, average 25 MPG
2003 Legacy SE Wagon 2.5L 4EAT 21-28MPG, average 23 MPG
2005 Legacy 2.5i Sedan 2.5 L MT 26 MPG so far.
The GT with the turbo has a different final drive ratio, so the MPG will not be as good as the 2.5i.

Jim

ateixeira · October 2004

Bob - CR's TSX took 9.2 seconds to reach 60mph, nine point two! Let's categorize that below "slower Hyundais".

Seriously, though, I think the Legacy 2.5i Ltd could match or maybe even beat that, and it runs on regular.

The turbo is in an entirely different performance class as far as acceleration, it deserves the extra gas used.

-juice

rob999 · October 2004

Re: "The turbo is in an entirely different performance class as far as acceleration, it deserves the extra gas used."

Consider, though, the Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon - Turbo 2.3 - 250 hp, virtually the same vehicle weight, engine size and output. Rated at 28 MPG, but will consistently deliver 32+ MPG at highway speeds (according to my experience and many others on "another board").

The high axle ratios on the Subaru turbo models kill the mileage.

ateixeira · October 2004

More turbo lag, though, and that thing felt like an on/off button.

I drove an wrote a full review in the Test Drive Team thread. Nice car otherwise.

I guess the shorter gearing gives you that kind of performance.

Perhaps Subaru could bridge the gap. The 2.5i is only adequate, and the turbo is so quick it's almost ridiculous. They could have something in between.

I guess the H6 is, but I mean in terms of price also.

-juice

xwesx · October 2004

Minneapolis.... Well, maybe that's the problem.

The "newness" never wears off if you have a chance to enjoy the drive. 172,000 miles later with 50% of the year in snow/ice and I enjoy it more now than when it was new because now I know just how far I can push the envelope even on busy highways and still follow the three rules of winter driving:

1. Drive within your ability.
2. Drive within your vehicle's ability.
3. Be courteous and conscientious.

xwesx · October 2004

Just this morning, my front right brake started sqealing intermittently. It sounds like a scrape and grind then is gone.... then comes back and stays... then is gone and sta-nope! It's back....

Don't the squealers have a steady noise? I only have about 35K on these pads - replaced them about 18 months ago, so I doubt they are ready for another replacement. At first I figured it was snow/ice build up on the inside of the rim scraping against the brake caliper, but it's as clean as a whistle in there and I don't *notice* any gravel binding it up......

Suggestions?

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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